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A Fate Worse than Death



 
 
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  #61  
Old July 16th, 2006, 4:31 am
poisonruby  Undisclosed.gif poisonruby is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFal
Actually, he didn't lose power then either, he just lost the capability of a wand, didn't he make the complaint to his returning DE's that they should have helped him? I can't be positive about the wand, because I'd need better research skills than I have to find the proper quote, but he retained the ability to possess animals and snakes, but that none of these could hold a wand. That tells me that the lack of a body to hold and use a wand prevented him from using his powers. He didn't chose loss of power per se.

He also could not have killed himself during those 13 years because there were Horcruxes around preventing his death...that's the very reason why he was Vapormort for 13 years.

Personally, I think his fear of death is worse than death.
True, and good point about the Horcruxes. He made both life and death almost impossible for himself, which in my opinion is worse than death, but in his opinion it means power.

He has gone further down the path of immortality than any other, as he stated himself, yet he managed to cut off his path to peaceful death and an afterlife. I believe afterlife will be an important part of the plot, building up on Dumbledore's belief that death is the next great adventure, and the theory that ghosts are people who come back when they are scared of death, and the whole veil episode.

JKR herself said that she is exploring the meanings of life and death in the books, because it had an influence on her life. So I don't think loss of power would be Voldemort's punishment, because it's just too blatant and expected. I think there will be something more intricate and deep, with probable influence of the fact that he has no proper soul.


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  #62  
Old July 16th, 2006, 4:42 am
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Re: Worse than death?

I believe that for a wizard like Voldemort, who had no love for anything or anyone, and who is so obcessed about his power, would be devestated if he lost his power, especially his fomidable power that he has over his Death Eaters. That would be as bad as even death I believe to Voldemort.


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  #63  
Old July 16th, 2006, 5:27 am
LadyFal  Female.gif LadyFal is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poisonruby
True, and good point about the Horcruxes. He made both life and death almost impossible for himself, which in my opinion is worse than death, but in his opinion it means power.

He has gone further down the path of immortality than any other, as he stated himself, yet he managed to cut off his path to peaceful death and an afterlife. I believe afterlife will be an important part of the plot, building up on Dumbledore's belief that death is the next great adventure, and the theory that ghosts are people who come back when they are scared of death, and the whole veil episode.

JKR herself said that she is exploring the meanings of life and death in the books, because it had an influence on her life. So I don't think loss of power would be Voldemort's punishment, because it's just too blatant and expected. I think there will be something more intricate and deep, with probable influence of the fact that he has no proper soul.
Wouldn't it be interesting that because of his shredded soul, he can neither go forward (into an afterlife) nor stay behind (as a ghost)? Condemned to an eternal limbo of nothing but awareness that it was his own actions that were the reasons for his lost goals?


  #64  
Old July 16th, 2006, 5:33 am
moonlite  Female.gif moonlite is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFal
Wouldn't it be interesting that because of his shredded soul, he can neither go forward (into an afterlife) nor stay behind (as a ghost)? Condemned to an eternal limbo of nothing but awareness that it was his own actions that were the reasons for his lost goals?
That certainly would be worse than death (and a bit creepy in my opinion). I think that Voldemort losing all his powers, and facing everything he has done wrong - ie seeing himself as a "failed" human being (or I should say, worse than a human being, because he's not really "human") would be a punishment worse than death too.


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  #65  
Old July 16th, 2006, 6:07 am
LadyFal  Female.gif LadyFal is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

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Originally Posted by moonlite
That certainly would be worse than death (and a bit creepy in my opinion). I think that Voldemort losing all his powers, and facing everything he has done wrong - ie seeing himself as a "failed" human being (or I should say, worse than a human being, because he's not really "human") would be a punishment worse than death too.
Yeah, no body, no powers, no dominating the world, no immortality (worth having that is), and no rest or adventure in the afterlife. And as long as Harry gets to live, I'll take that ending.


  #66  
Old July 16th, 2006, 6:28 am
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Re: Worse than death?

Voldemort may already be living a fate worse than death already, he just doesn't know it. He has never known love (nor does he care to experience it), and his soul has not been whole for a very long time. I'd like to see Harry lure Voldemort into the Locked Room at the DoM, and see Voldy get dissolved.


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  #67  
Old July 16th, 2006, 6:43 am
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Re: Worse than death?

Isn't what happened to the Longbottoms also worse than death. I mean they can't use their powers (that we can see anyway) and have lost the life they had.
A dementors kiss would also be a good thing for Voldermort but then again would the Dementors even be attracted to him considering he doesn't really have any truly happy memories.
I think him losing his powers and having to live as a muggle or squib would also be dangerous and he is a power and control seeking kind of person and would probably still try to hurt others even without magical powers unless he has also lost his mind.


  #68  
Old July 16th, 2006, 12:09 pm
princessaxyl  Female.gif princessaxyl is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

I always thought that, seeing as he was asking DD to kill him at the end of OoTP, that it would b some encounter with love. When he was in harrys body, he was asking for it to end, so maybe he cant stand love. Maybe that is worse than death for him.
Lock him in the love room anyone?

I guess it could be a life not only without power, but imagine if he had to work as a house elf for eternity. Then...not only would he not be "special" but he wouldnt have domination over others, but on the contrary others would dominate him..he'd hate that!


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  #69  
Old July 16th, 2006, 2:30 pm
LadyFal  Female.gif LadyFal is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by princessaxyl
I always thought that, seeing as he was asking DD to kill him at the end of OoTP, that it would b some encounter with love. When he was in harrys body, he was asking for it to end, so maybe he cant stand love. Maybe that is worse than death for him.
Lock him in the love room anyone?

I guess it could be a life not only without power, but imagine if he had to work as a house elf for eternity. Then...not only would he not be "special" but he wouldnt have domination over others, but on the contrary others would dominate him..he'd hate that!
Actually, he was trying to get Dumbledore to kill him because he was possessing what? Harry's body. Who would die then? Harry. Voldemort slips out before the spell hits and before Harry can react. End result, dead Harry, fleeing Voldemort who will come back to fight another day.

But you are righta bout the pain Voldemort felt because he was possessing a body so filled with love, and something of that nature is probably what will in the end defeat Voldemort.


  #70  
Old July 18th, 2006, 3:30 pm
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Re: Worse than death?

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  #71  
Old July 18th, 2006, 3:41 pm
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Re: Worse than death?

Maybe as Hagrid says "...should be made to live like muggles" and I think that will hurt Voldemort but have his horcruxes intact and hdden away But that is what happened to Magneto in x3 and well


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  #72  
Old July 18th, 2006, 4:01 pm
poetixerika01  Female.gif poetixerika01 is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFal
Wouldn't it be interesting that because of his shredded soul, he can neither go forward (into an afterlife) nor stay behind (as a ghost)? Condemned to an eternal limbo of nothing but awareness that it was his own actions that were the reasons for his lost goals?
That would definitely be fate worse than death, which Voldemort definitely deserves. It makes sense too. Voldemort has completely mutilated his soul to the point that he is no longer really human, so I don't see how he could ever really pass into an afterlife or remain on earth as a ghost.


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  #73  
Old July 18th, 2006, 5:55 pm
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Re: Worse than death?

Dementor's Kiss? That would probably be out of the question though, I'm sure the Dementors are on his side.


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  #74  
Old July 19th, 2006, 12:53 am
LadyFal  Female.gif LadyFal is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetixerika01
That would definitely be fate worse than death, which Voldemort definitely deserves. It makes sense too. Voldemort has completely mutilated his soul to the point that he is no longer really human, so I don't see how he could ever really pass into an afterlife or remain on earth as a ghost.
Thanks, and maybe the place to "live-out" this shredded soul existence is none other than behind the veil in the DoM? Just a thought.


  #75  
Old July 19th, 2006, 5:51 am
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Re: Worse than death?

i think that the only fate worse then death for tom would be for him to be somwhere between powerless and DK. i mean he would have nothing less than but to sit there for eternity knowing that who could never end his life because of himself


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  #76  
Old July 19th, 2006, 5:57 am
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Re: Worse than death?

I dont think it would. It has been made clear that Voldemort fears death above all else. The only problem with him loseing power is he would try and gain it back. I dont think Voldemort can be left alive not after the terror he has caused even if Harry strips him of power other would not be willing to let Voldemort out of their sights.


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  #77  
Old July 19th, 2006, 6:00 am
LadyFal  Female.gif LadyFal is offline
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Re: Worse than death?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronlutes
i think that the only fate worse then death for tom would be for him to be somwhere between powerless and DK. i mean he would have nothing less than but to sit there for eternity knowing that who could never end his life because of himself
By "DK" do you mean Dementor's Kiss? If so, I don't think we have reason to believe that DK victims can "know" or be aware of anything. More's the pity.


  #78  
Old July 19th, 2006, 6:25 am
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Re: Worse than death?

Keep in mind, though, Voldemort has been without his powers in the past. Immortality, as from a Dementor's kiss, would be a reward to him, as that's what he's sought from the beginning, even if he didn't have his powers. His powers were just his means of achieving that.


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  #79  
Old July 19th, 2006, 6:28 am
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Re: Worse than death?

Another thing I believe, that is almost worse than death is what happened to Neville's parents. They are alive, but they can't remember their son and their family and friends, and they have been tortured to the point of insanity.


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  #80  
Old July 19th, 2006, 6:43 am
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Re: Worse than death?

If it's for Voldemort, then it would be trapped in the room that is always locked in the DoM, that contains in great quantities the power of

OR

Having his magical powers stripped of him and left to live in a retirement home, in the same predicament as when he was Babymort.

As for us normal folk. I would say it would be not knowing love both receiving it and giving it.


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