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Is Harry Prepared?



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 15th, 2007, 11:45 pm
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Re: Is Harry Prepared?

I believe Harry is pretty much prepared for what's to come. I don't think he's fully prepared yet, but I believe he has most of what he needs to destroy Voldemort - the key will be for Harry to find what he needs within himself. I believe Harry knows more than he thinks he does and more than we might think, but it might be harder for Harry to find that knowledge and apply it. He does need to learn a modicum of control though, that I agree with. And as far as spells and magic go, I'm sure he could learn a few more DADA techniques. But I do think that Harry is basically ready for the trial ahead: he has a determined mindset and he has many friends who are willing to help him.


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  #62  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:34 pm
Cancha8844  Male.gif Cancha8844 is offline
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How much does Harry need to learn?

Well, he needs to learn Occlumency to close his mind. He needs to learn how to do non-verbal spells better. Geeze, thats a lot to learn in 1 book, I mean, who's going to teach him? Time is running out and I don't think he's gonna sit around for a few weeks to learn all this.


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  #63  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:37 pm
RiddleIsOurKing  Male.gif RiddleIsOurKing is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

As far as Occlumency I don't think it's as important as Voldemort won't risk trying to get into his mind because in turn, thanks to their magical bond to each other, Harry would be able to see Voldemort's plans and such.

Also when he turns 17 during the Summer he will have a full month before September 1st to practice spells (like silent ones) outside of school


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  #64  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:39 pm
Cancha8844  Male.gif Cancha8844 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Yes, but even so... Occlumency is horribly important for Harry to learn, not for Voldemort reading his mind, but when he's fighting Death Eaters, or Snape, who will try to read his mind and see what spell he's going to do moments before he does it. Therefore, Learning Occlumency is essential for Harry...


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  #65  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:40 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

There is also the theory that DH takes place over several years, so in that case there would be plenty of time for Harry to learn what he needs to know.


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  #66  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:42 pm
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

I think Harry pretty much doesn't want anything to do with Occlumency and unless something changes, I don't think he'll be studying it again. If it was truly important past Book 5, Dumbledore would have given him private lessons with that as well, seeing as how DD said he probably should have administered the lessons in Book 5 but was unable to because he didn't want Voldemort knowing of Harry/DD's relationship. But in Book 6, Voldemort had closed his mind from Harry and so Voldie wouldn't have seen their relationship past Headmaster/Student.


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  #67  
Old April 14th, 2007, 4:58 pm
Cancha8844  Male.gif Cancha8844 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Well the most that can be said is Harry has a lot to learn if he expects to fight Voldemort.... Even when Harry destroys Voldemorts Horcruxs, Voldemort isn't going to be "weaker" he will still be the Greatest Wizard alive (seeing as Dumbledore is dead... Voldemort is now the best)


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  #68  
Old April 15th, 2007, 1:51 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

I think that because Voldemort has already tried to get to Harry via his mind, that he wouldn't try it again, (of course, you never know with the baddies). And as I reacall, (if I do it correctly), Harry was told everything that he needed to know by Snape at the end of HBP. As Harry threw the curses at him, Snape talked about the non-verbal spells. This could, potentially, be something, and it could be nothing-- it might even be me remembering wrong. I think the theory, 'DH takes place over several years', could very well work in this situation. I'd love it, too :P


  #69  
Old April 15th, 2007, 2:00 am
Refinnej7  Female.gif Refinnej7 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiddleIsOurKing View Post
I think Harry pretty much doesn't want anything to do with Occlumency and unless something changes, I don't think he'll be studying it again. If it was truly important past Book 5, Dumbledore would have given him private lessons with that as well, seeing as how DD said he probably should have administered the lessons in Book 5 but was unable to because he didn't want Voldemort knowing of Harry/DD's relationship. But in Book 6, Voldemort had closed his mind from Harry and so Voldie wouldn't have seen their relationship past Headmaster/Student.
I think he does need Occlumency, I think he will want to improve on this skill; at the end of HBP, Snape is able to mentally block his curses before Harry even finishes saying them. As good a wizard as Snape is, Voldemort is ten times better. He as a much better Legilimens, and without better practice, without being able to throw Voldemort out of his mind, how will Harry be able to overtake him?


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  #70  
Old April 15th, 2007, 2:01 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

MN&TLC interview, 16 July 2005JKR: Well, I'm glad you think so, because I enjoyed this one. Draco did a lot of growing up in this book as well. I had an interesting discussion, I thought, with my editor Emma, about Draco. She said to me, "So, Malfoy can do Occlumency," which obviously Harry never mastered and has now pretty much given up on doing, or attempting. And she was querying this and wondering whether he should be as good as it, but I think Draco would be very gifted in Occlumency, unlike Harry. Harry’s problem with it was always that his emotions were too near the surface and that he is in some ways too damaged. But he's also very in touch with his feelings about what's happened to him. He's not repressed, he's quite honest about facing them, and he couldn't suppress them, he couldn't suppress these memories. But I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalizing his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself. But then he's playing with the big boys, as the phrase has it, and suddenly, having talked the talk he's asked to walk it for the first time and it is absolutely terrifying. And I think that that is an accurate depiction of how some people fall into that kind of way of life and they realize what they're in for. I felt sorry for Draco. Well, I’ve always known this was coming for Draco, obviously, however nasty he was.
Bolding mine. So it sounds like Harry would also have to "shut down compassion" in order to master Occlumency, something that would rather negate the 'love power', I think. I don't see Harry mastering Occlumency in DH, I don't think he will need to. Just mho, though.


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  #71  
Old April 15th, 2007, 2:33 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

he wouldn't have to shut down compassion, just control his emotions. He has all of the tools he needs to do both things, he just has to learn how to apply them.


  #72  
Old April 15th, 2007, 6:24 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
MN&TLC interview, 16 July 2005JKR: Well, I'm glad you think so, because I enjoyed this one. Draco did a lot of growing up in this book as well. I had an interesting discussion, I thought, with my editor Emma, about Draco. She said to me, "So, Malfoy can do Occlumency," which obviously Harry never mastered and has now pretty much given up on doing, or attempting. And she was querying this and wondering whether he should be as good as it, but I think Draco would be very gifted in Occlumency, unlike Harry. Harry’s problem with it was always that his emotions were too near the surface and that he is in some ways too damaged. But he's also very in touch with his feelings about what's happened to him. He's not repressed, he's quite honest about facing them, and he couldn't suppress them, he couldn't suppress these memories. But I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalizing his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself. But then he's playing with the big boys, as the phrase has it, and suddenly, having talked the talk he's asked to walk it for the first time and it is absolutely terrifying. And I think that that is an accurate depiction of how some people fall into that kind of way of life and they realize what they're in for. I felt sorry for Draco. Well, I’ve always known this was coming for Draco, obviously, however nasty he was.
Bolding mine. So it sounds like Harry would also have to "shut down compassion" in order to master Occlumency, something that would rather negate the 'love power', I think. I don't see Harry mastering Occlumency in DH, I don't think he will need to. Just mho, though.
excellet point and supporting evidence.

i agree with you on this one. more than likely, this will not be one of the most important tools harry uses. as nicole pointed out, it negates the love power idea. and, as other poster spointed out, voldemort is going to be careful about what he does in the way of legilemens work, because of the dangerous connection he has with harry.

truth is, harry was never a huge fan of occlumency. he became easily frustrated with it, and his highly emotional state really worked against him when trying to control himself. it would probably be much too time-comsuming (even of the story does span over a few years instead of the standard one year), especially when he could be doing other things. harry has gotten smart, and he will need to get even smarter-and fast. he'll know better than to fruitlessly pursure the pefection of an art he most likely can't properly master.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancha8844 View Post
...but when he's fighting Death Eaters, or Snape, who will try to read his mind and see what spell he's going to do moments before he does it...
unless, of course, snape is not evil...in that case, he won't have to worry about this.

sorry, couldn't resist standing up for my snape.

and, as far as other death eaters go: if legilimens are not that common (and in my opinion, they aren't) there is a great chance that harry won't face this problem at all.


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Last edited by iheartmywheezy; April 15th, 2007 at 7:08 am.
  #73  
Old April 15th, 2007, 6:41 am
Draugroth  Male.gif Draugroth is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

If Harry will not be able to learn Occlumency, as many people have suggested, then he really won't need to learn how to use non-verbal spells. I don't have HBP near so forgive me if I'm wrong, but can't you perform most spells either verbally or non-verbally? If this is true, then if Harry doesn't learn Occlumency then his enemies will be able to know what he is doing whether the words he says are in his mind or coming out of his mouth, and all of his spells will be blocked before they have their desired effect.


  #74  
Old April 15th, 2007, 6:57 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Draugroth, I don't think Legilimency is a common ability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only three characters we know have that ability are Snape, Voldemort, and Dumbledore. Dumbledore is dead (although he would never use it against Harry) and the definite on Snape's loyalty is still out. With Voldemort not wanting to enter Harry's mind, mastering non-verbal spells will be important.


  #75  
Old April 15th, 2007, 7:18 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Will Harry have to learn anything? I don't believe he will learn anything in the manner that he has learned them at school. I do believe he will advance the skills he already has, however he already has the ability to perform the task at hand, and anything that he lacks will come in its usual form of aid from external sources ie. Hermione, Ron, Adults, and other creatures.

I submit that Harry's Triumph/Demise will be as simplistic as the cover of the American version of DH... with an innate magic that he has possessed in greater quantities than any other, his ability to Love.


  #76  
Old April 15th, 2007, 7:32 am
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebeGeorge View Post
Draugroth, I don't think Legilimency is a common ability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only three characters we know have that ability are Snape, Voldemort, and Dumbledore. Dumbledore is dead (although he would never use it against Harry) and the definite on Snape's loyalty is still out. With Voldemort not wanting to enter Harry's mind, mastering non-verbal spells will be important.

I suspect that Oclumency (sp) and Legilimency are strongly liked, evidenced by snape trying to hide painful memories outside of his skull whilst trying to teach Legilmency to Harry.
If so, we can add Draco and Bella to the list.

Harry has a lot to learn about curse breaking. Handilly, he'll be visiting a curse breaker early in the last book.


  #77  
Old April 15th, 2007, 9:59 am
Ze_Grindylow  Male.gif Ze_Grindylow is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Good catch about the curse breaker.

Harry wouldnt need to learn Occlumency to use non verbal spells, don't forget he was able to use Levicorpus which is a non verbal spell.


  #78  
Old April 15th, 2007, 10:46 am
Wright1771  Undisclosed.gif Wright1771 is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Harry has all the help he needs, in his heart and 'soul'!


  #79  
Old April 15th, 2007, 12:15 pm
EvilKnievel  Female.gif EvilKnievel is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

But don't you agree that Harry has already masterd nv-spells? I mean, he hung Ron upside down, I think he can do it easily, as long as Snape isn't there to critisise him. Like potions really, he did way better on his owl when Snape wasn't near. Like JKR said, Harry doesn't really know that he's a pretty good wizard. I often had the feeling he's underestimating his own strenghts while reading the book. I mean, we al see things from his point of view mostly, and as a typical teenager, Harry often thinks he's no good at anything.

I agree that Occlumency is not that important anymore. Voldy chose to shut Harry out, Harry does not like Occlumency (though I think that if DD had taught him, he might not have such reservations, maybe he'd even be good at it) and the only one who can penetrate his mind now is Snape, who, in my humble opinion, is a good guy, deep down. I also agree with the fact that he'd have to shut out his emotions, which might go against the whole "love is the most important thing" theme, though it might be convenient to shut out some emotions, like hate, fear, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Annachie View Post
Harry has a lot to learn about curse breaking. Handilly, he'll be visiting a curse breaker early in the last book.
This may be a silly question, but you do mean Bill right?

I think that harry will need to learn to ask the right people the right questions (like Kreacher, for instance, I bet he'll be able to tell him more about the locket, if only harry asks him in the right way). Of course, Hermione might ba able to help him there.



Last edited by EvilKnievel; April 15th, 2007 at 12:28 pm.
  #80  
Old April 15th, 2007, 8:44 pm
Draugroth  Male.gif Draugroth is offline
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Re: How much does Harry need to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebeGeorge View Post
Draugroth, I don't think Legilimency is a common ability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only three characters we know have that ability are Snape, Voldemort, and Dumbledore. Dumbledore is dead (although he would never use it against Harry) and the definite on Snape's loyalty is still out. With Voldemort not wanting to enter Harry's mind, mastering non-verbal spells will be important.
I didn't think about that until you said that. If Legilimency is not a common ability, then yes Harry will need to learn non-verbal spells, but I can't help but think that some of the Death Eaters will have the ability to invade Harry's mind.


 
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