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#1
February 8th, 2007, 9:32 am
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Shamanism and the HP Connection
This is a new version of the Shamanism thread. Previous version can be found - here
The last thread dipped away from the topic. Obviously if possible it would be good if you all could link your theories with HP as much as possible. Slight deviations are fine if it goes towards emphasising the link to HP, but we have to draw the line where we see family-friendly rule being overlooked. I'll include ALL posts from the last thread, but kindly request that discussion not venture down avenues on female vulva or male phallus and other similar themes. Here are posts from the earlier thread. Barmy Codger:  Emerald63: sulihawk: WeasleDiva: doug rogers: Barmy Codger: Emerald63 post:
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Brave New World 
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But you know... the Guide does somehow manage to almost always have the brain-drain garbage correctly listed. 
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#2
February 8th, 2007, 9:54 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Morgoth...
THANK YOU. Thank you SOO much. We will do our best to follow the guidelines you've set down. Please let us know if you feel we are not, and we will further refine our methods. And from the bottom of my heart... thank you for returning our "intellectual children," our writings of the past year and a half, to us... Must go now, the tears of gratitude and joy are making it hard to type. Emerald63
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#3
February 9th, 2007, 4:52 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
"Shamanism and similar areas of research have gained in significance because they postulate new ideas about mind and spirit. They speak of things like vastly expanding the realm of consciousness ... the belief, the knowledge, and even the experience that our physical world of the senses is a mere illusion, a world of shadows, and that the three-dimensional tool we call our body serves only as a container or dwelling place for something infinitely greater and more comprehensive than that body and which constitutes the matrix of the real life."
—Holger Kalweit, Dreamtime and Inner Space. Have you ever travelled somewhere in a dream that you have never been to? Later when you went there for the first time you realised you knew every nook and cranny and then remembered the dream? We still have the vestiges of magic in our world! Then *shudder* there are the dream journeys like Harry has, he does not see a blessing in the dream, though the timely arrival of his spirit on the scene saves Arthur Weasley's life. Harry instead feels dirty and violated because of the view through which he sees the occurance, through the eyes, muscle and fangs of Nagini. Unfortunately I can relate, I had such a journey and could not save the person though the 'dream' was 2 1/2 years prior to the death. Harry could not stop what had happened, Fate had her way. But he was able to remember exact details and raise the alarm which saved a life. Dumbledore sent Harry and Hermione on a journey back in time to save two lives in PoA. Did he or someone else send Harry to save Arthur? Fate perhaps?? Harry's other journeys in OotP and GoF send warnings also which help save him in the end. Forewarned is forearmed. We share these journeys with Harry through his green eyes so like his Mother's. Is Lily the instrument then, sensing the dangers and showing them to her son so he can get help and be prepared for the battles to come? I am looking forward to reading what spiritual journeys our hero goes on to explore in Deathly Hallows. Will he do battle with the cause of these journeys as a horcrux inside his head? "The same yet in essence divided?"
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I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. Job 30:29
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#4
February 10th, 2007, 12:28 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
This discussion was dead, dismembered, and reborn. Perhaps raven has turned into phoenix.
Proceeding from earlier talk--- Quote:
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Many in the alchemy thread felt that each of the books has a flavour which they tried to interpret as meaning that each book was a step in the alchemical process. John Granger, who has written books about the alchemical symbolism in 'Harry Potter, thought that book 5 was the nigredo stage. Black, Putrefaction. At the time I hadn't found the arguments convincing (I thought the nigredo stage should be earlier in the process), yet there is undeniably a dark quality to book 5. Standard explanation for Harry's moods is his teenage angst, but his fellow students haven't been angry. Possible explanation is, to put it glibly, that he was isolated, kept in the dark, fed lots of manure (that's how you raise mushrooms!), and stewed in his own juices (or succumbed to Voldemort's bad vibes) -and that amounts to the nigredo stage of alchemy. Book 6 also had underlying themes. First we had the strange chapter title 'An Excess of Phlegm' and Fleur Delacoeur nicknamed phlegm. Along with that is Slughorn. Phlegm is one of the four humours, and phlegmatic nature is sluggishness. We have had lots of mentions of slugs throughout the books, so there is symbolism at work. Quote:
The absence of the soul during a spirit journey is like death. It is called a little death, but it is not death There are stories of magi or shamans who went into a trance and left instructions to be revived. Their bodies are just lying there maybe for days. Only their instructions weren't followed, for various reasons (making for various interesting stories), and their souls were lost. This seems to amount to death but it is never clear (at least not in my memory), just as it wasn't clear whether Voldemort was really dead or alive, even though he still existed as Vapourmort. The stories I remember are from 'The Myth of the Magus'. If you're curious, and if the library copy is available, I can post more about it. There are also stories of the rebirthing done wrong -the magus kills himself in order to be reborn but the assistant's lapse of attention spoils the pot so the magus is a goner. In a similar way, the Dementor's kiss is not death. Except, what else can it be? Ms Rowling doesn't explain. I guess she wants us to question and ponder these things. Anyway, what is the purpose of Harry's having so many dreams and visions? Is it to show he is a wizard, a magus, or a shaman? There are plenty of witches and wizards around but they don't have dreams. Were his dreams all induced by external forces? Voldemort said he planted dreams in Harry's head, but he did that after he found out there was a link between them and that Harry was already dreaming about the corridor. I feel the dreams about the corridor may actually express Voldemort's longing for love and for transformation. Sounds unlikely, but a great majority of people on this earth are just looking for love. In another example, from book 4: Quote:
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One last thing. When 'hallows' were being discussed, I thought there might be a similarity to 'halo'. My dictionary gave the origin of the word as being the circle made by oxen or such animals on a threshing room floor. Odd to find it related to a spiritual aura, but not much use. I failed to make a connection. The book 'Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess' has something about ergot: Quote:
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#5
February 13th, 2007, 3:32 am
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Shamanism & HP, A Primer, Part 1
(EDIT) I'd like to say to anyone reading this and my next two posts that I am going to be working VERY hard to make future posts much shorter and maybe be in a list form. But there's just sooo many shamanic elements repeated in all the books that it can be hard to choose which to leave out. But I will try, because I'm really hoping more readers will be interested in joining in... and I don't want to scare you off!
 Greetings All! Since the discussion is going again in a new format, I thought this might be a good time to recap the basics of shamanism and where it can be found in the HP books for those who are just now joining our show "in progress" so to speak.  A momentary diversion... Yes, Sulihawk, I've had many dreams of places I've never been to, only to one day find myself in the living version of the place, one I'd never known existed other than in my dream. It's also happened by seeing photos of places after dreaming about them but before ever having heard of them. I suppose I am blessed that I've never been left feeling responsible for anyone's life, though. Barmy, I've skimmed your comments on Harry's attitude in OotP and will pile it on top of the other continuing topics I'm still working on.  To the Old Gang in general, I'll continue trying to catch up with the really Big Ideas from v.2 that I hadn't gotten to. I'll be doing some of that here and some of that wherever we all decide to go to for a more adult-oriented version of the discussion. Anyone wanting to join us for that, please owl me and I'll let you know where... as soon as we do! But as for here and now...Let me say first this is an off-the-cuff description that conforms to my own understanding of the subject of shamanism. I'm not an expert, I haven't written any books about it, and I haven't even read that many. But I've been mentally gathering tidbits through a year and half long discussion of the topic. Please, anyone, old or new to the discussion, who has more or better info to add - have at it! You may also wish to read the initial post of "Shamanism in HBP" v.1, now archived in the History of Magic Reference Books subforum. Our discussion founder, Rust_Loup, who has unfortunately moved on with his life, provided us a great beginning. This recap is, therefore, as much for my benefit as yours. Sort of a "final exam" for what I've learned... so far. Because the subject of shamanism, and it's relation to HP, is so complex, I'll begin with some background information. Due to the length of even a basic overview I will forego any connections to HP in this first post. But my subsequent ones will address shamanic events in each of the books, and in the series as a whole. SHAMANISM THROUGHOUT HISTORY Shamanism: What is it? Shamanism is an ancient form of spirituality that occured in every corner of the world and in pretty much every culture at some point in its history. The word itself is taken from a Siberian dialect, but it's now used generically to describe very similar practices from many cultures. Shamanism predated more organized, formalized religions, all of which do have some ties back to shamanistic precursors. An intermediate stage between ancient shamanic practice and modern organized religion can be found in Classical mythology. It retains many key shamanistic concepts while also recounting cultural lore and moving into accounts of wider spread ritual behavior. Almost all ancient spiritual "paths" or "belief systems" (a way of believing other than an organized religion) incorporated the belief that the natural world is inhabited by many types of spirits, and not just plants, animals, and humans. These spirits live in and represent every sort of feature of the natural landscape, both alive and inanimate, as well as natural occurances like the weather, the tides, earthquakes, volcanoes and the like. Most paths also believed that there are alternate realms of existence beyond ours, and that the spirits sometimes reside there. Often the realm above us, that of the stars, was believed to be the home of the gods or spirits, though other unseen realms might exist as well. And in some cultures, the spirits of the ancestors were included in the greater scheme of spirits. Also common to ancient belief systems was a recognition of the cyclic, balanced nature of life. One of the most obvious and important of the cycles of nature is that birth leads to growth, then to maturity, then to death. Along the way, new lives are introduced and old lives pass away. A belief in an afterlife or reincarnation was also ubiquitous. The other omnipresent cycle is that of the seasons. It was vital for the ancients to know exactly when certain animals could be found for hunting, and, after agriculture was introduced, when to plant their crops. There were also changes in weather patterns to consider, like when the first snowfall could be expected or when a monsoon season would begin. The very lives of the ancients depended on them understanding the cycles of nature, and how to predict their arrival so they could prepare. Examples of balance in nature include male/female, night/day, winter/summer, birth/death, and earth/heavens, among many others. One very famous symbol for this balance is the Asian yin-yang, showing both black and white comma shapes intertwined and encompassed by a unifying circle. Because they believed in spirits, it was natural for ancient peoples to want to contact them for any number of reasons. To be fair and respectful of their beliefs, we need to remember that to them "spirits" were what we would today call gods. They were not spirits in the sense of ghosts and they were definitely not trivial. This sort of belief does still exist in many parts of the world, although Westerners would likely refer to it as a "religion." Some of the best known surviving examples are the Native American tribes of North America. Some have converted to Western organized religions, but many have not. However, their shamanistic practices are often kept secret for only tribal members to know. (There are many books and individuals purporting to teach "authentic" shamanism but, alas, many are simply out to make a buck. Use caution and skepticism if you come across them.) But we do know of ancient examples, both from surviving artifacts from pre-literate cultures and from the writings of cultures who practiced shamanism into the historical era. So what is a shaman, exactly? A shaman, or medicine man/woman, was a special member of a tribe, clan, or community who went through many years of training in order to learn mastery over what was known of nature and how to contact the spirits for further guidance in all aspects of life. In some cultures the role was passed down in families, while in others those who seemed to have an affinity for it were accepted as apprentices by elder shamans. Sometimes an individual would go through an experience that indicated to the elders that he or she was being singled out by the spirits as a good candidate to become a shaman. (I'll explain more about this momentarily.) Also, some cultures limited the role to males, in some rare cases to females, and in yet other cultures either gender could achieve shaman status. It was the job of the shaman to use his/her knowledge of the natural world to aid the tribe in whatever way they could. When the need merited it, the shaman would also "journey" to alternate realms in order to speak directly with the spirits. There he/she would learn very specific information that could be used to deliver the most effective aid possible. The shaman might speak with the spirits of the ancestors, of animals, or of plants to gain insight. Sometimes it was believed the shaman could return from the journey bearing more than knowledge. Sometimes further special abilities would have been bestowed on them during the journey or a magical object might be given to the shaman to bring back to this realm. Shamans also created their own magical objects, called totems. These could take any number of forms, but examples would include drums, rattles, staffs, or weapons. Each was created very carefully and was imbued with powers from the spirits during special ceremonies. How did a person become a shaman? The beginning of shaman training would include learning all the detailed lore of the tribe, including its history and its spiritual beliefs, what we would call its mythology. It would also include practical knowledge like which plants and practices were effective in treating health problems, which would provide protection during battle, and which would assure a successful hunt. All this was vital, as most tribal cultures were based on quite small groups compared to today's societies. Any significant drop in population could spell doom. Various branches of tribes, those too small to continue in their own right, might join with larger branches, but at the cost of the most unique aspects of their identity. Shamans would spend many years in training, often not achieving full shaman status until well into their lifetime. Shamans gained so much special knowledge, which was often kept secret among themselves, that they were respected as very powerful individuals. This was also because they were believed to be able to contact the spirits directly. And quite often a shaman was also seen as someone not quite as sane as the rest of us, or, at the least, eccentric. Both his/her abilities and the lasting effect those would bestow might account for this. Or someone who had been a "bit different" than the average person, even as a child, was seen as being that way because the spirits had been especially close to them since birth. Remember I mentioned that some individuals seemed to be tapped by the gods themselves to become shamans? This was because they underwent certain life events without having sought them out. Examples are a severe illness or injury, either of which would be life threatening. Often when a person is gravely ill or injured, in a fevered semi-consciousness or coma, they experience what is now referred to as a "near death experience," or NDE. A NDE can have the same effect, partially, as the many years of preliminary shaman training because they provide a natural, personal, and very powerful introduction into other levels of consciousness, i.e. into other realms. In essence they provide a direct, spontaneous link to the spirits. Accounts of NDEs have provided scientists with a clear picture or just how life-altering they can be. We've all heard of the person who "died on the table" only to "come back" changed in both outlook and goals. This was what was happening to people who were said to be "chosen by the spirits" to become shamans. Once a shaman in training was deemed ready, elder shamans would subject him/her to several days of physically and psychologically demanding excercises. These could involved fasting, sometimes refraining even from drinking water, physical isolation, sleep deprivation, long distance hikes without food or rest breaks, or extreme heat or cold endurance. In some cases, the effects of these excercises were multiplied by the use of specially prepared and administered hallucinogenic compounds. The combination of any of these excercises would induce the altered state of consciousness which is the hallmark of a shamanic journey and which is the mandatory initiation for anyone wishing to become a full-fledged shaman. The greatest of the shamanic journeys is that of death itself, followed by a literal rebirth, as with a NDE. The purpose of the elder shamans in subjecting a candidate to these very demanding excercises was to induce as close to that scenario as possible in the shaman-to-be. It was not uncommon for those in training to fail their test or to choose not to finish it. Becoming and being a shaman was not for the faint of heart. How did a shaman contact the spirits? There were numerous ways. Not all are legal nowadays, which became a concern when we discussed these methods in our previous thread on this subject. However, it's no secret that - in general and with no specifics mentioned - many cultures' shamans used mind-affecting substances to assist them in reaching a different or "altered" state of mind (or "level of consciousness"), wherein they believed themselves to have left their bodies in order to meet with the spirits. But this was by no means the only way to contact the spirits or journey to their realms. Any practice that can help an individual calm or alter their brain wave function can be helpful in reaching that altered state of mind. Examples include rhythmic practices like drumming and ritualized dancing, as well as deep meditation. These are not only effective, but completely safe physically, whereas mind altering substances, in addition to now being illegal in most forms, can also be very dangerous if not used in a very exacting manner. But even though the non-chemical ways of entering "another realm" are physically safe, managing to enter a new, unfamiliar level of consciousness can sometimes effect one very deeply on both emotional and spiritual levels. So, if you feel so drawn, it is wise to approach any attempt at shamanistic practice only after extensive study, preferably with an experienced, legitimate practioner to guide you. What happend when a shaman contacted the spirits? There are numerous written accounts from historical times that describe similar phenomena. Often, as a shamanic trance is being entered, a high pitched whistling sound is heard. The sensation of spinning may occur. Bright lights, sometimes flashing or of shifting color, will be "seen." There is also described a sensation of being drawn through a tunnel or tight passageway. There is much less information about what was experienced once the shaman "arrived" in an alternate realm. This aspect of the journey is at the heart of shamanic practice and, as such, was often kept secret. These days, many people have learned how to "travel to the astral plane," usually through meditative practices. This is basically what shamans were doing, although their abilities to navigate the astral plane and to communicate with all of its inhabitants, both human and otherwise, were highly developed. [Edited from its original form by Em63:] It's this last, brief section that is clearly present in numerous examples in the HP books. But other, less clear, mythology related examples also appear. While not as "flashy" they are the heart and soul of shamanism within Harry Potter. In future posts I'll examine how these hallmarks appear in HP, as well as how JKR also incorporates other shamanically-descended mythological events. *** Last edited by Emerald63; February 23rd, 2007 at 3:03 am.
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#6
February 15th, 2007, 3:18 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
I can't wait to for your future posts re: how shamanic hallmarks appear in HP etc. All I can think of for the moment is that the floo network with its spinning rush of emerald flames and its use as a transportation device (and the powder) sounds like a shamanic trance situation. I don't know much and I am eager to learn more.
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#7
February 16th, 2007, 10:38 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
I'm also thinking of the trips into the Pensieve. Does that qualify?
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Legolas and Gimli were to ride again together in the company of Aragorn and Gandalf, who went in the van... --From Lord of the Rings, Book 5, Chapter X: "The Black Gate Opens" 
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#8
February 17th, 2007, 7:12 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Greetings, Ladies!
I've not forgotten about your posts, though I'm suddenly finding myself quite busy with several projects! But I'm really excited that you're eager to learn and I hope to have my compatriots help me teach you. To answer your questions briefly (I'll do more "Shamanism in HP" book outlines soon), both the floo network and the pensieve are shamanic in nature. The floo network is more so symbolically. It takes the witch or wizard from one part of their "realm" to another, but it doesn't not take them between realms. (Unless you count Arthur Weasley trying to come through the Dursley's boarded up fireplace in GoF! ) But the idea of the lights, colors, spinning, compressed area, and travelling in general are shamanic. But you know that sneaky JKR... most of the examples she uses lurk in more mythologically oriented scenes. I think I should probably rephrase the last lines of my first post here: "It's this last, brief section that is clearly present in numerous examples in the HP books. But other, less clear, mythology related examples also appear. While not as "flashy" they are the heart and soul of shamanism within Harry Potter. In future posts I'll examine how these hallmarks appear in HP, as well as how JKR also incorporates other shamanically-descended mythological events."Hopefully that better reflects what's going on in the books. (I've edited my own first post to include this new paragraph.) As to the pensieve, it is a true shamanic journey. The body stays in place and only the mind travels. It crosses out of its own realm, both in space and time. It gives insight from the viewpoint of another being as well, in a sense giving the viewer almost god-like access to another's memories. The image of the long silver tendrils Harry sees Dumbledore store and retrieve from it are reminiscent of what Astral Plane travellers say they see. When the soul or persona leaves the body it is said to be "tied" to its body by a silver cord. This cord indicates that the person and his body are still one entity, only temporarily and partially separated. The cord is also how a traveller finds his or her way back to the body, especially when not yet very experienced. I haven't personally read any accounts of shamans seeing this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do, considering Astral Plane travel is so closely related to shamanic travel. So... great catches, Nessy and VivianU!! I'll try to meet you back here early next week. 
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#9
February 17th, 2007, 1:17 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Hi Everyone!!
So, this is where we live now, huh? Barmy, I think you are right, our totem may have transformed to phoenix. Welcome to Nessy and VivianU!! I'm glad you guys are joining in the discussion! I love that you brought up the Floo Network, Nessy. That's something I haven't thought about for awhile. It's highly shamanic though. And, thinking about it, of course the Dursleys have their fireplace boarded up. That's overtly symbolic of their mistrust of anything magical/shamanic (not to mention, funny for Jo to write Arthur, Fred, George and Ron all crammed into a blocked up fire place!). Well, I'm going to sip my morning tea (hmm, I guess it's afternoon already!) and look over the rest of what Barmy and Emerald posted.  It's good to see some form of the shamanism thread still alive and going!
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"It struck me as pretty ridiculous to be called Mr. Darcy and to stand on your own looking snooty at a party. It's like being called Heathcliffe and insisting on spending the entire evening in the garden shouting Cathy! and banging your head against a tree." --Bridget Jones
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#10
February 17th, 2007, 6:28 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Actually, the experience of Apparating seems to fit the physical feelings described in Shamanic travel. Of course, like the Floo Network the whole body is transported, not just the spirit.
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#11
February 20th, 2007, 12:41 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
I'm finally back with some Actual HP Shamanic Events to share!!!
 First, good catch, dorcasderr! Apparating is highly shamanic. Even though the whole body is indeed transported, the transport frequently moves the witch or wizard from their magical realm to the Muggle realm. And the tightly compressed feeling is a classic shamanic element. I'm going to start my next discussion by saying that every one of the books to date has a predominant shamanic event in it. These conform more to the mythological storytelling viewpoint of shamanism. But the books all also have many smaller events that are shamanic in nature, some more so than others, but plenty to show that JKR has some knowledge of the specific subject of shamanism, not just it's mythological progeny. SHAMANIC EVENTS IN PS/SS The "Big Event" The "Big Event" in PS/SS takes place, as do the big events in all the books, near the end of the story. For this first outline of shamanic events I'll go in reverse order, describing the "Big Event" as a first example, going on to list other events from the book afterward. Harry, Ron, and Hermione have figured out what the Sorcerer's Stone is and where it is, and they also believe it to be in danger of being stolen by Snape. They determine to stop him and rescue the Stone from someone who would misuse it. To begin their journey the Trio must get past Fluffy, the giant three-headed dog. In form Fluffy is taken directly from the Greek mythological creature Cerberus, a three-headed dog that guards the gates to Hades, the Greek Underworld and land of the dead. Also common in myth is the need to charm a person or animal with music. Harry plays his flute, a handmade gift, or fetish, from Hagrid, and Fluffy falls asleep. It's then time for the Trio to Go Below, to Hogwarts own Underworld, where life is quite different than in the school above. They reach its depths by leaping into a seeming bottomless pit. The passageway is fairly narrow and also requires one to allow freefall in order to pass through it. Also of note is that the Trio are not only foregoing sure footing, but lighted surroundings as well - they go into the darkness. Once "down the rabbit hole" as Lewis Carroll would say*, they begin a series of increasingly difficult tests of their deductive reasoning and abilities, not to mention courage. Their aim is to safeguard and return the Philosopher's Stone to the realm above. This is a clear parallel to mythologies (e.g. Egyptian) that describe a sun god's nightly journey through the Underworld to safeguard the sun and shepherd it as it makes its way back to the east where it will return to the world above the next morning. These tales also feature tests and sometimes battles with monsters or human agents of evil. (* - Carroll's books about Alice, Alice in Wonderland and Alice Through the Looking Glass are some of the best modern shamanic allegories in all literature.) Note that as the Trio progress the tests become more difficult and that, eventually, only our hero Harry can continue. This is a typical feature of many hero quests. The stories that grow up around and embellish shamanic journeys must sometimes be analyzed to find the precedents they illustrate. In the many tales of this sort we see a hero, who represents the shaman, journeying into unfamiliar and often unnatural surroundings, which represent the other realms of existence where powerful spirits live and shamans must journey. It is the shaman's role to gain knowledge from good spirits, to battle evil ones who are causing trouble in the realm of humans, and sometimes to return with special items necessary to the well-being of his/her people. This is exactly what the hero on a quest does. It's just that with modern culture's loss of openly shamanic practice over the ages, most people have lost the ability to see the true origins of these myths. The exploits of mythic heroes depict actual events ancient peoples believed really happened to their shamans. (And which many today still believe occur.) Eventually, Harry reaches the final test, the one that will either kill him or make him a successful shaman. He faces not only Quirrell, a man whom he can envision as an enemy, if only reluctantly, but also Voldemort, a non-human spirit entity he did not even know still existed. As the purest of human agents, the rare one Dumbledore says can see the Stone and not want it for himself, Harry has the ability to defy his evil spirit opponent successfully. Here at the end of Harry's first quest is a variation from typical ancient myths. Ancient shamans journeyed for many reasons, including initially to prove their worth and level of self-knowledge and motivations. The work they had to do to reach that stage takes many years of reflection, preparation, and maturation. But in the beginning the HP books were geared toward children and had a child hero. Harry had not had either the time or the life experience to reach the typical beginning shaman stage. In adapting the greater scheme of shamanic mythology, JKR substituted the awareness, clear reasons, and willingness to sacrifice oneself of Harry's mother in order to supply him with the insight and defenses he needed to prevail. The result is an admirable hybrid of shamanic precedent and the purity of innocence more often found in later Christian inspired hero tales. As with any introductory shamanic experience, Harry remains unconscious for some time after his exploit has ended. He awakens in the Hogwarts hospital wing three days after he saved the Stone, Quirrell had died, and Vapormort had once again fled. He needs some adult experience, in the form of Dumbledore's explanations, to begin to understand all that has happened and its underlying import. It's of note, I believe, that Harry was still in the unconscious realm (another realm separate from that of humans) for exactly three days. In one of the books of the Aprocrypha, additional Christian writings still consulted by the Catholic faith, but which were not chosen for the final form of the New Testament, Jesus is said to have descended into hell between his death from Crucifixion and his spiritual rebirth from Resurrection. During his time below he spoke with sinners, attempting to heal them of their errors and bring them back into the realm of light. Harry did not intend for Quirrell to die, nor did he freely choose to be the agent of his death. Neither did he tell Vapormort to "get thee behind me." He was not yet experienced enough, being on his own initiation journey, to try to heal his enemies or guide them away from dark magic. But I feel that if he could have, he may very well have tried. And I do feel there is a strong possibility something of this sort will happen in Deathly Hallows when a mature, fully trained Harry must make his final shamanic journey in his quest to vanquish Voldemort. Other Shamanic Events in PS/SS From the very outset of Book 1 shamanic events are all over the place! Our fist clue that differing realms are beginning to intersect, to in effect take the reader on his/her own shamanic journey, occurs when Vernon Dursely, Muggle Extraordinaire, thinks he sees a cat reading a map and a streetsign. This is, of course, shapeshifting animagus Minerva McGonagall. (Unfortunately, I neglected to mention in my overview that shamans frequently shapeshift.) Vernon also sees many oddly dressed people on his way to work. Unknown by him to be wizards and witches, we can see them as friendly visitors from a "spirit realm" (when compared to the Muggle, or human, realm). One can even say that on this occasion they come to bring us "tidings of great joy." Although Vernon has his back to the flury of owls zipping to and fro that day, we can see them for the animal messengers from the spirit world that are part and parcel of shamanic belief and later mythology. That night, as "normal" people sleep, the Great Shaman himself, Dumbledore, "appeared so suddenly and silently you'd have thought he just popped out of the ground," i.e. from the Underworld. Remember, the Underworld of many mythologies is not like the hell of Judeo-Christian tradition. It is not a place where evil doers are punished for eternity. While it can be a dark and unnerving place in some mythologies, a place in which the living may feel extremely uncomfortable, it is merely a place where the dead reside. And in some mythologies it's a rather pleasant place for spirits to spend time, either eternally or before being reincarnated. As we now know DD to be the best of wizards to follow "light magic" (a term JKR never uses but is the logical counterpart to dark magic), we can discount his seeming to come out of the ground as a bad sign and recognize it as simply his appearance from one of the many other spirit realms. As Hagrid arrives we have the most important shamanic journey to date. He brings Baby Harry, fresh from a Near Death Experience, yet miraculously alive and well, save a new "initiation" scar. They arrive from the sky with an attendant "low rumbling sound" that grows "steadily louder," which eventually "swelled to a roar." After farewells to transition him to his new life in a new realm, the Elder Trio place Harry on the Dursley doorstep, rather like what happens in a changling story from Irish-Celtic fairy mythology. [The Celts had a vast shamanic tradition, best witnessed by the Druids who combined the roles of priest, judge, and keeper of tribal lore (as accomplished by highly respected "bards"). When Christianity arrived in Pagan areas, the old ideas and ways were discouraged, then suppressed. But they did not die - they became myths, folklore, and fairy tales. In Ireland the old gods and spirits became known as The Fay (or Fey), what we know as fairies. Norse spirits, of both good and evil varieties, were known as elves, and their stories survive as well. There are many Celtic and Norse mythology clues in HP, not just Greek and Roman ones.] For ten long years Harry stays in the realm of Muggles, unaware of his own natural ties to a different realm. But he is not entirely out of contact with his natural realm. Numerous events happen to him, usually when he's stressed or angry, that give hints to his non-Muggle-realm origins. His hair grows out overnight after Aunt Petunia's horrible haircut. The horrid sweater of Dudley's she tries to make Harry wear shrinks. Harry finds himself atop his school when Dudley's gang chases him. During this time he "lives" within a confined coccoon or womb-like area under the stairs at #4 Privet Drive, all the while developing slowly in magical ability, all the while slowly returning to his own realm. Harry's odd "mishaps" culminate when he communicates with the snake at the zoo, inadvertantly freeing it when Dudley knocks him to the ground. Here we see Harry's first strongly shamanic ability - he can talk to snakes. And here the knowledge of his Muggle family that he is very different begins to solidly form, just as shamans are often viewed as not like other members of a tribe or clan. The "Letters from No One" absolutely seal the deal that there is something very odd indeed about "that Potter boy." I had always assumed they were delivered by owls, but rereading that chapter I found that twice they come through the mail slot along with regular mail, and afterwards are shoved through any small gap available, eventually careening down the long narrow chimney flue, all with nary an owl in sight. (They even come inside eggs, a clear symbol of rebirth.) Later Hagrid said he had the responsibility of getting Harry's letters to him. However he did this, on his own or with owls, they are still open communications from "another realm." Their blatant difference from Muggle mail (on parchment using green ink and having no postage stamps) and their sheer numbers are too much for Vernon, who first tries to isolate his realm from the "invading" spirit realm and, after that fails, takes his family on a sort of anti-quest in order to escape. Along the way all the family members gradually do with less and less than they are accustomed to. Spoiled Dudley is actually cuffed by his father when he tries to bring along a TV, VCR, and computer. (Interestingly, none of those things will work where there's a great deal of magical presence.) The family sleeps in a grungy hotel that night and has a sparing breakfast the following morning, when yet again those blasted letters start coming in spades. Vernon drives for ages, eventually settling on a tiny rocky island some distance offshore in the sea. Here we have another clear tie to Greek shamanic myth - Vernon introduces them to a "toothless old man" who points with "a rather wicked grin, at an old rowboat." This is Charon, the Ferryman. It is he who allows the newly dead to cross from purgatory-like plains over the river Styx and into Hades proper and their new existence there. And the island is certainly hellish, as is the journey to it. "It was freezing in the boat. Icy sea spray and rain crept down their necks and a chilly wind whipped their faces. After what seemed like hours they reached the rock... [inside the house] the wind whistled through the gaps and the fireplace was damp and empty."The portions I placed in bold are all classic environmental and time distortions that can happen in shamanic journeys. Also present is the fasting element: "Uncle Vernon's rations turned out to be a bag of chips each and four bananas." The cold persists as well: "He tried to start a fire but the empty chip bags just smoked and shriveled up." As the night continues, Harry is coldest of all on the floor with the thinnest of the meager blankets they'd found. The storm continues to rage, complete with thunder that begins as midnight, and Harry's birthday, draws near. (Lightning is not mentioned, but one may surmise it was likely there as well.) Enter Hagrid, Harry's first conscious contact with a realm beyond the one he's always known. He is "a giant of a man" who squeezes through the door. He is obviously not of this world, as his size, "wildness," and various activities show - he starts a roaring fire (which warms Harry), he produces food seemingly from nowhere (mimicking the mythic cauldrons and cornucopias of abundance), he provides new knowledge for our young proto-shaman (as any spirit of light/good should), and he even brings two animal messengers into the story (he pays the Daily Propet owl and also sends word to DD that he's found Harry). On the first day of his new life, Hagrid takes Harry the new shamanic apprentice, away from the tiny island, leaving the average people behind. From here they have train and subway journeys (with their long tunnel pathways), arriving at another gateway to an even more magical realm - The Leaky Cauldron that stands before Diagon Alley. Inside they meet yet another gate guardian, Tom the bartender "who was quite bald and looked like a toothless walnut." He resembles the Charon-like boat owner, but he guards the Gates of Paradise in a way, rather than the gates to the Underworld. Even his first words to Harry, the first of any wizard save Hagrid, are full of welcome and joy: "'Bless my soul,' whispered the old bartender, 'Harry Potter... what an honor.'" Considering the bartender's name is Tom, I've wondered if the words "Bless my soul Harry Potter," may be a big clue about Harry eventually healing Voldemort, or in some way vanquishing him while allowing what is left of his soul to transform into a being who can travel on to the Underworld, as all people should after death. Our shaman Harry could prove to the darkest of wizards that death really is only the next great adventure. Well.... I could go on and on and on and on and... even more than I already have ... but um, you get my point.  Now I think it's time now for anyone who'd like to, to comment on what I've outlined here and to also add in more such events from PS/SS because, despite my going on and on, there are plenty more examples where those came from. Have fun with this - it's so exciting to begin to see things that have been in the stories all along but are only now revealing themselves to you the readers, the next shamans in training. 
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#12
February 21st, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Thank you Emerald 63, first for your explanation of Shamanism itself, and also for the outline of Shamanic events in the first book.Now i won't feel QUITE so lost!.
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#13
February 23rd, 2007, 3:01 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Quote:
I'd like to say to anyone reading this that I am going to be working VERY hard to make future posts much shorter and maybe be in a list form. There's just sooo many shamanic elements repeated in all the books that it can be hard to choose which to leave out. But I will try, because I'm really hoping others will be interested in joining in. And just in case others try to start this thread from the beginning, I'll be making a brief edit to the beginning of my own first post to let them know not to fear and endless succession of endless posts.
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#15
February 23rd, 2007, 9:56 pm
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Quote:
 Would you care to comment on any of the events Harry goes through, either the ones I included or some of the others in PS/SS? I continue to learn from other's catches and would like to hear what you (and others) have to say. Once you know the basics it's really quite easy - and fun - to find examples. There are definitely plenty of them!
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#17
March 2nd, 2007, 5:11 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Greetings to Nessy, and hopefully others, too!
Please don't ignore your schoolwork, Nessy. When you do have time to get back to this, I've got a bit more for you. If you want to reread the canon section involved, it includes Chapters 16 and 17 of CoS. This post includes only the Big Event, so it won't be nearly as long as the one for PS/SS.  The "Big Event" in CoS Harry seeks to save Ginny and stop or destroy whatever monster has been plaguing Hogwarts. He goes below ground, into the depths of the earth to do so, knowing he'll face great danger. That's a shaman's role - to journey to the spirit realms in order to defeat whatever evil spirit is plaguing his people and to find healing for individuals in need. As is typical, Shaman-Harry enters this realm through a secret portal accessed by special powers. Also common, he has the sensation of falling and travelling down a long narrow passage. Once at the bottom the narrowness continues until he reaches the very gates of the other realm. The pillars just inside this gateway have serpents entwined on them. These are the de rigueur totem animal of the underworld, regardless of culture. They symbolize both connections with the dead, with their movements below ground, and rebirth, with their skin shedding aspect (as well as many species being egg-born). Through both of these ties snakes are also associated with healing, the art of preventing or postponing death so that the person may rise from the sickbed to begin a new life. Here in this chamber one "life" will end, evil spirit Diary-Tom, and another will be reborn, Ginny. Harry is the shaman that mediates this event, battling not one, but two evil beings the baslisk and Diary-Tom. Harry is helped by his personal totem animal, also representative of death and resurrection, the phoenix. Despite Harry's patronus protector being a stag, I think his true totem animal is phoenix (especially considering his wand core). The stag seems more a legacy from his father, rather than a reflection of Harry's inner self and destiny. His totem animal aids him (pecking out the pesky basilisk eyes) and enables him to retrieve a magical item from another realm - the sword - with which he can defeat his first opponent. For his second opponent, I think it's really interesting that Harry uses an element of one evil being, the basilisk fang, to defeat another evil being, Diary-Tom. The great serpent is Diary-Tom's totem, but he has distorted and misused Snake "medicine" (in the Native American sense) to favor only its negative connotations. He's also done that with the phoenix medicine within his wand core. Between the two misuses, it's not surprising that the fang is able to destroy him. Harry's efforts allow the former imbalance in life energies/souls to correct itself; the never-completely-corporeal Diary-Tom ceases to exist and Ginny revives. His totem animal guides them, along with Ron and Lockhart, back to the realm of the living. There Harry shares information from beyond, the story of what happened in the Chamber, and gives the ruined diary to the Master Shaman, Dumbledore. Between the information and the object, DD is able to learn a great deal about the wizarding world's most powerful foe, the greatest evil spirit to plague them. Harry also brings back the Hat and introduces Gryffindor's Sword into the realm of the living once more. There is no mention of it in any of the flashback scenes that occur in times earlier than CoS takes place. It would seem even DD did not know of its existence before Harry presented him with it. The information and the objects all mark Harry as a great shaman himself, even though he is still in training. *** Also, most shamanic cultures believed caverns represented the womb of Mother Earth. So a girl being "reborn" from one is also symbolic in that way, even beyond returning from a generic separate realm. Of course there is tons of other symbolism, including both Freudian and Jungian psyhcological ones. Those incorporate underground, or subconscious, aspects as well as the fear of facing death. There is modern mainstream religious symbolism in the action, too, but I'm not sure I see any in connection with the underground setting. It is hellish. But other than Jesus journeying to Hell between the Crucifixion and the Resurrection (per the Apocrypha) I'm not familiar with other monotheistic journeys to an underworld. But even Jesus' journey has shamanic overtones.
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#19
March 21st, 2007, 10:44 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Hello everyone!
Nessy, that's an interesting idea, because the snitch seems to have some spirit-like qualities. It's very hard to see, almost like just a sunray, something incorporial/aetherical. Only the moment Harry catches it the golden sunray becomes a corporial ball. Isn't gold also alchemically connected to the sun? So probably Harry is catching the spirit of the sun?
__________________
"Tell me, Potter, can you read?" ************************************************ Severus Snape is on the good side.     Support him against Lord Voldemort!
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#20
March 27th, 2007, 12:30 am
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Re: Shamanism and the HP Connection
Greetings!
My apologies for being away so long. There have been several family emergencies lately, two of which are ongoing. I'm also due to leave on a retreat in a couple of days, so my further apologies for being away for the next two weeks. I hope to have time to check in when I return, though one of those emergencies will be ongoing for some time and is 200 miles away from home. Passionfruit, it's so good to see you here!  Quote:
 ) for both of you. There is indeed a great deal of symbolism regarding the Golden Snitch and Harry's role as Quidditch Seeker. Some of it is shamanic, though there are also mythological, biblical, and philosophical connections as well. Remember, a "seeker" is usually the term for one who seeks spiritual enlightenment, no matter which path they follow to find it. Yes, the Snitch does represent the golden sun of some mythologies, which often as not has highly spiritual overtones in said beliefs. A few sun images even feature wings, as in Egyptian mythology. And there are tales of a shaman, god, or mythological hero swallowing it, as Harry comes close to doing at the end of one match (his first I believe). The sun was often believed to be swallowed by a god (or sometimes a monster) as it set. When taken by a god or goddess, he/she shepherded it through the Underworld throughout the night, guarding and defending it, giving "birth" to it again the next day. If a monster were involved, the god/dess would fight and kill the creature in order to restore the life-giving sun to its rightful place in the morning sky. I'll close with a bit of a shamelss plug, but with (I hope) a good reason... I've been published! MuggleNet just today published an editorial I sent in way back in October of 2005. It involves lots of Celtic mythology, although I was much less familiar with shamanism and how it appears in Celtic myth when I wrote it. But it discusses in detail Otherworld journeys, the basis of shamanic belief. As I will be away again for some time... (here's that "good reason" for my self-plug) you may find it an entertaining read. I plan to let others of the Old Shamanism Gang know it's up and if they see fit to comment in the thread for it they may be able to assist you with questions you have on shamanism within the ed. I'll ask them to drop in here, too, if you feel the need.
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