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Gilmore Girls v.2



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  #141  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 8:04 am
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

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Originally Posted by jordmundt6 View Post
Okay, sorry about that. In Sleepless in Seattle, Annie (Meg Ryan) has a brother (Dennis) played by David Hyde Pierce (the same actor who later played Niles Crane in exactly the same way). Annie asked her brother why he got married. This is his response.

"Betsy said we either had to break up or get married. So, we got married."
I feel stupid now *cry* I've seen that movie approximately ten times!

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By the end, I was getting the same feel from Logan, particularly with the manner, setting and style of his marriage proposal at the end (that getting engaged would drive job problems out of Rory's head, that he should make it a very public announcement so that Rory would look stupid if she deigned to refuse him--it was the type of proposal that Emily would have insisted upon for her daughter and granddaughter which is all I think I need to say about how wrong it was).
I didn't perceive it that way (that it'd make Rory look stupid if she declined - it'd had made HIM look stupid). Sorry, I saw it only once, and I must say I didn't pay that much attention because I was waiting for Luke/Lorelei (I saw all shows of season7 in a giant 36-hour marathon), but after the Huntzberger 'this girl isn't fit to marry into OUR family!' I found it good of him to stand up so publically and ask her to be with him.

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As for the end--yes, I agree that Logan could make strides in another season if they were filming it...realize his mistake, realize that he couldn't imagine a life without Rory in it--but we'll never get to see that, and his knee-jerk reaction doesn't fill me with a lot of hope--and his track record isn't as good as, say, Luke (who, in spite of being an idiot every so often we know lives for the Gilmore ladies and loves them with his whole heart and soul).
oh yes, dear Luke...

Seriously, I prefer it like this. I am not such a severe critic of Logan as some others, but neither do I wish to watch yet another season of him doing some growing-up. I can think he'll do it, that's enough.


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  #142  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 8:54 am
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

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That's basically what Logan did here--it was half a marriage proposal and half an ultimatum. I also saw and enjoyed his moments of clarity and growth--the problem I had was that he didn't look like he had stages of growth. It was more like he repeated the same two lessons four or five times and never went past the second lesson. Chris had a couple of those moments too (fewer than Logan...but they did happen), but he always managed to revert spectacularly to awful Chris Hayden form. By the end, I was getting the same feel from Logan, particularly with the manner, setting and style of his marriage proposal at the end (that getting engaged would drive job problems out of Rory's head, that he should make it a very public announcement so that Rory would look stupid if she deigned to refuse him--it was the type of proposal that Emily would have insisted upon for her daughter and granddaughter which is all I think I need to say about how wrong it was). As for the end--yes, I agree that Logan could make strides in another season if they were filming it...realize his mistake, realize that he couldn't imagine a life without Rory in it--but we'll never get to see that, and his knee-jerk reaction doesn't fill me with a lot of hope--and his track record isn't as good as, say, Luke (who, in spite of being an idiot every so often we know lives for the Gilmore ladies and loves them with his whole heart and soul).

Unsurprisingly I still disagree with your interpretation of Logan's character. He never pressured Rory or tried to turn her into something else - like Christopher did with Lorelai. You bring this up again and again but I just can't see this reflected in Logan's actions we have seen up till the end of season seven. He is not remotely like his father, either. He chose a different path. In my opinion, the break-up was forced by the writers and the ultimatum very out-of-character for Logan. Logan knows what pressure means and he can't handle ultimatums at all. So why would he do that to Rory? It makes no sense. He also just told her two or three episodes earlier that he would factor her in and that she should choose whatever career she wanted. The marriage-ultimatum does not fit. I was not satisfied with the ending. The message was that Rory needs to be single to have all opportunities and only the break-up encouraged her to jump into the unknown worlds of journalistic work. This is unsatisfactory for me.


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  #143  
Old June 28th, 2007, 12:37 am
jordmundt6  Undisclosed.gif jordmundt6 is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

Fleur--Logan did have his moments, and his rejection of his family's stance on Rory is one of his best--but making what was one of the most intimate and important moments of their relationship (what could have been, was, and could still be a crucial point in the history of their relationship) a public spectacle like an awards dinner or a debutante ball was a mistake on his part. I'm not even sure he realized his mistake when he did it--it was just another grand gesture to demonstrate his affection, but it put inappropriate pressure on Rory by pretty much presuming her acceptance (and on the grandest scale possible)--it was the setting to ANNOUNCE an engagement, not make a proposal. There should be violins and flowers and majesty and beauty, but it's one of the most intimate and precious moments in a relationship--the beauty and spectacle (however much of it there is) should be for the benefit of the person asked, not for the entertainment of onlookers.

I don't think the break-up forced her to jump or encouraged her to jump--her missing the fellowship forced her to find the best fit and jump. Logan knows what it is to be controlled and he doesn't set out to do it--the way Chris does--but he expresses his affection and concern in the only ways he knows how--the ways he's seen in his young life. It was a huge step for him to make his deal and the fact that he could see them as equals (Rory in journalism and him in tech or tech marketing is huge)--but his deal, his base, was still paramount and would shape her life and choices. The freedom that his success brought them should have allowed Rory to do whatever fit best while they enjoyed being engaged and planned their wedding--but he wasn't ready to be that open--not necessarily because he was incapable of it--he'd never seen it happen, he didn't know it COULD happen. In that way, the world he came from where the husband's work and choices shaped the wife's options hamstrung him--and helped turn what was a proposal and the promise of a new life into what Logan absolutely hates--an ultimatum.


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  #144  
Old June 28th, 2007, 6:14 am
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I agree with Madron. I definitely think that the writers were ending the relationship just b/c they wanted Rory to end the series unattached. The whole season they had built Logan up to finally meet the Gilmore Girls' steep standards. He was steadily moving away from his father and becoming independent. The marriage proposal-ultimatem seemed so unreal to me. Logan was just starting a business and moving across the country. He was still in his early twenties, just over a year out of college. This was the guy from The Life and Death Brigade. I don't think he was in any hurry to settle down.

It's not that I'm sad that Rory and Logan broke up. I wouldn't have minded that much if it had been done in a way that justified their relationship, not rushed and hastily shoved away.


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  #145  
Old July 2nd, 2007, 7:16 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I love Gilmore Girls.
My favourite pairing is TristanRory, followed by LoganRory.
The show is good, and its one of the only shows that have lasted when the character goes to college.

Jo


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  #146  
Old July 3rd, 2007, 3:21 am
jordmundt6  Undisclosed.gif jordmundt6 is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

Tristan? You mean the spoiled brat played by Chad Michael Murray--their first crack at a poor little rich boy for Rory to meet? The one who annoyed Rory and toyed with Paris? That Tristan? I don't know anything that makes the character all that likeable--unless, are you a Murray fan on principle? I guess I can understand that even if I don't agree.


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  #147  
Old July 4th, 2007, 12:58 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I thought Tristan was that guy who was scared witless of Paris? The one returning to Chilton after a while because he had been in a Broadway play, and Paris keeps on making jokes on him having performed the back of a horse?


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  #148  
Old July 4th, 2007, 2:00 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

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I thought Tristan was that guy who was scared witless of Paris? The one returning to Chilton after a while because he had been in a Broadway play, and Paris keeps on making jokes on him having performed the back of a horse?
No, that was Brad.

Tristan was only there for season 1, then left early in season 2, to go to military school, but really because Chad Micahel Murray got another job. Then because they always needed a problem for Rory/Dean, they brought on Jess right before Tristan left. I don't believe Rory/Tristan was ever a thing though. Sure they kissed once, right after Dean and Rory broke up, but that was just because Rory was really lonely and confused and sad, and she even said it didn't mean anything.


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  #149  
Old July 4th, 2007, 2:06 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

god, I completely forgot about him. It's ages ago I saw that season. Anyhow, he didn't leave much of an impression with me


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  #150  
Old July 4th, 2007, 9:51 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

i love gilmore girls, i cried when i saw the very last episode


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  #151  
Old July 5th, 2007, 7:18 pm
jordmundt6  Undisclosed.gif jordmundt6 is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

That's generally the effect that actor has, Fleur. He's nice and, I suppose, nice to look at, but not really memorable. Tristan chased Rory or tried to bait her into going out with him for most of the first season--culminating in that PJ Harvey fiasco. He even went on a date with Paris at Rory's suggestion as a way to get closer to Rory. That started out nice and got ugly very quickly.


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  #152  
Old July 5th, 2007, 7:37 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I'm glad you say that. I had begun doubting if I'm still allowed to call myself a fan

Yes, yes, he was there. I faintly remember him being a prat. But now I start understanding all the mentions of him I read here. I had been mystified why people were assuming a romantical entanglement between Rory and the boy (that I now know to be Brad )


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  #153  
Old July 11th, 2007, 4:22 pm
jordmundt6  Undisclosed.gif jordmundt6 is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

Possibly Brad's puppy-dog similarities to Ron Weasley might cause that, but Tristan is Tristan. CMM was a male model before he went into acting--so, his character was bound to have a following, no matter how he acted--what some HP fans look at as the Tom Felton effect.


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  #154  
Old July 11th, 2007, 4:26 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

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Originally Posted by jordmundt6 View Post
Possibly Brad's puppy-dog similarities to Ron Weasley might cause that, but Tristan is Tristan. CMM was a male model before he went into acting--so, his character was bound to have a following, no matter how he acted--what some HP fans look at as the Tom Felton effect.


I had thought that Logan was the Draco-after-Hogwarts character


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  #155  
Old July 11th, 2007, 5:00 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I dunno--I guess, we've had such a small window into the young man that Draco is now, that I tend to underestimate him. If he makes the right choice in DH, turns on Voldemort, and survives with some of his prejudices shaken, then maybe. But before I read about Draco's confrontation with Dumbledore (that included a discussion of all the really bright things he'd done for his plots, and his emotional turmoil) I'd have said that you give Logan far too little credit--as privileged and twitty as he can be, he's far too mature to be equated with Draco. Now, I'm not so sure--it depends how things turn out. But, then again--I'm one of maybe a dozen people on these boards whose expecting, nay DEMANDING a tremendous improvement and a lot of self-awareness and penitence from Ron Weasley if I'm expected to swallow Ron and Hermione as viable, loving couple...much less as the second coming of Arthur and Molly (frankly, Harry and Ginny track much more closely to that example). But that's a discussion for a different thread.


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  #156  
Old July 11th, 2007, 5:09 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

actually, I was a bit more on the joking side there, jordmundt Because of all the girls loving Tom Felton, and all the girls loving Logan (and however the boy's playing him is called), and because he's got that Uber-daddy, is filthily rich, and a spoilt brat.

As far as their character goes - Draco would have to go a loooooong way still to become Logan in the very first episode we get to see him, let alone the more grown-up version


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  #157  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:24 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I should have paid more attention to the wink, I suppose. Up until the end of Half-Blood Prince, I'd have agreed with you wholeheartedly. In fact, before HBP came out, I was one of the loudest proponents of the theory that there was nothing redeeming about Draco's character--but his struggle, the awakening of his conscience, and his discussion with Dumbledore, while they aren't much--do show that there is something intriguing and worthwhile to save. I see him as more worthwhile than the glib party-boy that Logan appeared to be back when we first met him on Gilmore Girls.


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  #158  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:39 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

yes, glib party boy had the emotional depth of a puddle. But what he was not was a vile racist, I meant that this is something that Draco'd have to work on very hard (and at least during DH, I can't see him make the complete U-turn, if ever). Isn't that the one advantage of shallowness? Your faults aren't buried that deep down either.


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  #159  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:57 pm
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

Well, yes and no. I mean--it is possible to be both shallow and intractibly elitist--look at Lady Catherine De Bourgh or Mr. Collins if you need proof of that.

Also, the story of Regulus who went from indoctrinated son, to Death Eater, to valiant, self-sacrificing rebel (at least apparently) ought to be enough to demonstrate that it is possible to truly change for the better very quickly (notice how I carefully avoided mentioning Snape there).


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  #160  
Old July 11th, 2007, 7:10 pm
Fleur du mal  Female.gif Fleur du mal is offline
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Re: Gilmore Girls v.2

I'll have to reserve my judgement on Regulus until next week

Of course, there is irredeemable shallowness, but Logan didn't strike me to be that bad. As I said before, I thought he made some good developments in the last seasons, and had the show been continued, I dare say we would have come to see a 'fine young man' at the end. I thought they had set him up to go that way, just that the end of the show got in the way before he was 'ready'.

Now if the HP series didn't contain 7 but 15 books, we might still have got to see Draco marry a muggle girl (fan girl dream number one - or two, right after marrying Rory - erm, Hermione, I mean). I absolutely agree, HBP reveals him to have far more depth than Logan (once again, I'm patting my own shoulder here, because I firmly believed there was a bit more to him yet than a member of the Inquisitorial Squad ), but his flaws are definitely worse than Logan's too.


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