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The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)



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  #1241  
Old December 27th, 2013, 4:26 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I understand now (sort of) what the Silence's role was but it felt like a let down to me.
Yes, that was sort of like reading a plot-synopsis of Deathly Hallows, where you would read: "Snape's memories show Harry that Snape had been working for Dumbledore all along out of love for Harry's mother: and that Harry himself was the final Horcrux" instead of reading "A Prince's Tale."

On the other hand, if it had come out over an entire episode that Madame Korvashian's group was a splinter group, and perhaps gotten some hint that their Endless Bitter War was being fought to make sure that another Time War didn't happen, then it would have felt like we were reading "A Prince's Tale."

Similarly, it would have been much more satisfying some key point in another episode had been Smith realizing that he actually did not have any regenerations left. That could have introduced the 12 Regeneration rule (which is Old Testament stuff for Whovians, but unknown to the recent converts who often find Old Who unwatchable).


Again, I suspect that Moffat thought Smith would be back for another season, and that he could link the Quest for Gallifrey with the Endless Bitter War. He would have been in a slight corner given that the 50th was such an important springboard for the Smith Finale: it would have been tough to pull much of that in front of the 50th.

Still, one could see why Smith felt it was time to leave. This sort of role can typecast someone, and 4 years as the Doctor probably is as much as anyone should do.


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  #1242  
Old December 27th, 2013, 7:40 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

Good analysis, Wimsey. I have been saying that Moffat had a very difficult task with this episode - to do a Christmas Special that is also a regeneration episode which answers the question of how/why the Doctor can go on after he reaches his regeneration limit. I found it rather unsatisfying as an episode, but I'm cutting Moffat slack because he really was up against the wall this time. And anyway, the episode DID have some great dialogue.


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  #1243  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:04 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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I found it rather unsatisfying as an episode, but I'm cutting Moffat slack because he really was up against the wall this time. And anyway, the episode DID have some great dialogue.
Well, even if it lacked for story (and drowned us in plot), it certainly did not lack for poignancy or performance! Smith did a great job of playing an old man: he always did a good job of playing an old man in a second childhood, but he really was reminiscent of William Hartnell in many ways.

And "Raggedy man: Good Night!" even got some H20 into my long-defunct tear-ducts!

(I had wondered if the actress who played the young Amy might appear, but it occurs to me that she's almost certainly much too old for the part by now!)


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  #1244  
Old December 30th, 2013, 8:12 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

I thought that this would have been the perfect ending for Ten, who was so reluctant to go. For Eleven it felt a bit abrupt and disjointed. I also would have preferred if Moffat hadn't defied RTD's canon in regard to Ten's botched regeneration, which, to me, comes across as unnecessary and disrespectful.


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  #1245  
Old December 30th, 2013, 11:46 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I also would have preferred if Moffat hadn't defied RTD's canon in regard to Ten's botched regeneration, which, to me, comes across as unnecessary and disrespectful.
In what way do you think that Moffat defied RTD's canon here? If you refer to making this the 13th regeneration, than that was not cut and dry: it was a matter of great debate among Whovians as to whether Tennant's partial regeneration was or was not a true regeneration: Moffat opted to make it one.

My suspicion is that if Smith had stayed for another season (or half-season), then Moffat would have had the Doctor learn someway (say, by having someone try to steal his remaining regeneration energy in a story) that he did not have a complete regeneration left. The Doctor did use some regeneration energy to heal River in Angels, and he threatened to regenerate to stop Mr. Clever in Nightmare in Silver: and as Mr. Clever had access to the Doctor's thoughts, the probably should have known that the Doctor was low on regeneration juice if the Doctor himself had realized that.

However, clearly Moffat wanted to do something with a "where do we go after 12 regenerations": otherwise, he would have just sided with the other half of Who fandom (who know are wailing with the "Balrogs don't have wings" and "Snape is evil" crowds, I guess! ) and stretched a little to make this the 12th regeneration. He probably has been working towards that for a couple of seasons, which would require that he intended the Doctor to be ignorant of his situation. I suspect that Moffat wanted to do more with the "Long and Bitter War," too: he usually is much more subtle about how he doles out answers/solutions to outstanding mysteries than he was in Time. (The BBC cuts that forced the "split" season really gall me right now: I realize that a big part of this required Day of the Doctor first, but Moffat almost would have had to make some progress towards the Doctor learnings these things if there had been 12 more stories up to this point.)

Of course, it is possible that RTD meant to do away with the 12 regeneration limit altogether, anyway: it never came up during his tenure, and there were a couple of times (particularly in Tennant's last story) where it would have been appropriate to mention it.


I do look on this bright side: at least there was no mention of the Valeyard (a bad idea from what was certainly the show's nadir in the mid 1980's)!


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Last edited by Wimsey; December 31st, 2013 at 4:40 am.
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  #1246  
Old May 26th, 2014, 3:40 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

The Doctor returns in August!

I am very curious (and more than a little apprehensive) to see how the show fares. One hypothesis for why the show's popularity dropped in the 1980's was that people got a bit burned out on it after all of the hoopla for the 20th anniversary. I never quite bought that: in truth, the show's popularity had been sliding since late in the Tom Baker era. However, that hoopla was dwarfed by the 50th hoopla for many reasons, and there does seem to be a lethargy surrounding coverage of the show. The very lackluster departure episode for Smith (which still really bothers me: such a good Doctor deserved a great sendoff, and this was better than only Time and the Rani, i.e., the worst Doctor Who ever!) probably won't help.

In the end, I am very worried that the very uninspired choice of Peter Capaldi will hurt. The show needed someone completely different right now to insert a new jolt of energy after the 50th. Jon Pertwee II is not a good sign. Still, I'll be eagerly watching with all of the other geeks….


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  #1247  
Old August 25th, 2014, 8:55 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

Reactions, anyone, to the new doctor? One episode may not be enough to form concrete opinions - but I'd like to know what people think ...


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  #1248  
Old August 25th, 2014, 11:13 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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Originally Posted by ginger1 View Post
Reactions, anyone, to the new doctor? One episode may not be enough to form concrete opinions - but I'd like to know what people think ...
Very disappointed.
The show took too long to get going!
The first 20 mins were so boring! I hated the scene with the Doctor and the homeless man. I just wanted all the angsting to finish and for the adventure to start.
Once things started moving (finally) it was a little better.
I hope the series improves. I found Series 7 the worst so far, so I want Series 8 to bring back my love for the show.
I adored the Day of the Doctor but disliked the Christmas episode that followed.


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  #1249  
Old August 25th, 2014, 11:22 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

Everyone hates the new doctor at first.


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  #1250  
Old August 25th, 2014, 1:25 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

I actually really enjoyed capaldi as the new doctor. I was pleasantly surprised as I was going in expecting to hate him at first. And for the first time Clara wasn't so bad either. What I didn't like was the plot and pacing, everything just dragged... that you Moffat... Moffated again....


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  #1251  
Old August 25th, 2014, 6:35 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

I like Peter Capaldi in the role. It's a nice change to have an older Doctor again. I've nothing against handsome young Doctors. But this changes the dynamic between Doctor and companion which is refreshing. As for the plot... I like the character building and we will see if plot comes to play soon.

Who do you guys think is that woman at the end?


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  #1252  
Old August 26th, 2014, 10:18 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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Originally Posted by Wab View Post
Everyone hates the new doctor at first.
Not true!
I have enjoyed the new doctors in their first few episodes up until now. This is the first time I have not enjoyed a new Doctor.
It may be the script not the actor. I need a few more episodes to tell.

As for the woman at the end, at this stage I find myself not caring. Which is terrible for me as I usually am very emotionally invested in all the characters and mysteries.
I found myself losing interest last season when Clara was introduced. I have never liked her.



Last edited by snugglepot; August 26th, 2014 at 10:22 am.
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  #1253  
Old August 26th, 2014, 1:32 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

So, I guess it's just me who absolutely adored this episode. I loved Capaldi as the Doctor...I really find him a breath of fresh air, much as I liked Smith.

The story was good...not the best story ever, but enjoyable enough. I always like to see Vastra, Jenny and Strax, and wow that balloon was scary! Pretty grotesque, really.

But Capaldi...I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me, but I found the mixture of humour and sadness he gave off was very appealing. My boyfriend thinks he's amazing too, and has got over his disappointment that Capaldi's not going to swear in this role. I think that's my fault though- he didn't know who Capaldi was at the announcement, so I found the Thick of it for him to watch...

Clara...was just Clara. I like her, but found her much more interesting before we were shown her history. I did like her face off with Vastra though.

A couple of things though...one, what's with the Doctor breaking the fouth wall? First with all the trailers, then at least once in the episode

Two, I know Peter Capaldi is well known for accidentally leaving his wedding ring on when filming, but it seems a bit strange that production or whatever wouldn't have noticed that he had it on in the last scene. Maybe I'm reading too much into things here...


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  #1254  
Old September 12th, 2014, 3:01 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

American Doctor Who fans befuddled by Capaldi's accent: 'He should be called Doctor What!?'

I wish I could find this hard to believe. Capaldi's accent is a pretty mild form of Glaswegian. If you want impenetrable watch Looking After Jo-Jo.


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  #1255  
Old September 12th, 2014, 4:57 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers in abundance also for season 7)

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Everyone hates the new doctor at first.
I don't think that's always true....at least not for me, and I go quite a ways back with the Doctor (before the "new" series redo). I liked Eccleston right from the start, and loved Tennant as well. As far as Capaldi, haven't seem him yet, so unable to comment.


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  #1256  
Old September 12th, 2014, 2:53 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

I have been absolutely loving Capaldi as the new Doctor.

It took me a bit of time to warm to David Tennant, but by the time he met up with Sarah Jane Smith, I was on board. The first Matt Smith episode I saw was his first Christmas Special (while I was still catching up on David's episodes). I thought he was brilliant in that, so I was very excited for his Doctor. But then I saw his first series of episodes and really did not like many of them. That was obviously not Matt's fault because he himself could be very good. The problem for me was with the scripts. The first of his episodes that I actually liked was the one with Toby Jones as the Dream Lord.

As for Capaldi... I thought he was brilliant in his first full episode. The script itself, not so much. The script seemed awfully didactic, trying to "educate" the fanbase that they should try to see past the older face and just see the Doctor there. I could not take my eyes off Capaldi, though, despite the script. He just owned the part. And I have not been able to take my eyes off him since.

As for Capaldi's accent, I am American and have not personally heard any American fans say they cannot understand the accent. Some American fans have been leading the "he's too old" charge, but I have not personally seen American complaints about his accent (which I agree is very mild as Glaswegian accents go). One complaint I am hearing is that it's hard to hear him - i.e., that the sound mixing is making his voice blend in with surrounding noise. I'm having that problem at times myself (which might be a BBC America problem, not a problem with the actual mixing). I'm solving the problem by watching the show with headphones on after my initial viewing. It's easy to understand in headphones. But if I watch an episode through the television speakers even after watching with headphones, I still have the same problem with hearing what Capaldi is saying, even though by now I already know the lines. I tried this experiment with the Dalek episode.

Capaldi has a beautiful voice so I'd hate to see them destroy its beauty to get it to cut through in the sound mix, but maybe there's a way to work with the sound mix itself to bring out Capaldi's voice.

By the way, one thing I really did love in Capaldi's first episode was that he got to share a long scene with Lis Sladen's husband, who played the tramp. I thought that was pretty awesome.


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Last edited by ccollinsmith; September 12th, 2014 at 3:07 pm.
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  #1257  
Old September 13th, 2014, 6:18 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

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Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
One complaint I am hearing is that it's hard to hear him - i.e., that the sound mixing is making his voice blend in with surrounding noise. I'm having that problem at times myself (which might be a BBC America problem, not a problem with the actual mixing). I'm solving the problem by watching the show with headphones on after my initial viewing. It's easy to understand in headphones. But if I watch an episode through the television speakers even after watching with headphones, I still have the same problem with hearing what Capaldi is saying, even though by now I already know the lines. I tried this experiment with the Dalek episode.
It's a BBC problem - there have been several complaints about inaudible programmes. Their answer it to tell us to buy a soundbar. (Though they appear to have remedied the problem for DVD releases)

I've only seen the Robin Hood episode and thought it was absolute classic Who


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  #1258  
Old September 13th, 2014, 2:07 pm
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

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Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
It's a BBC problem - there have been several complaints about inaudible programmes. Their answer it to tell us to buy a soundbar. (Though they appear to have remedied the problem for DVD releases)
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I was not aware that this is a known problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
I've only seen the Robin Hood episode and thought it was absolute classic Who
Absolutely! There was definitely a Classic Who feel to it. It also seemed to be paying a bit of tribute to Errol Flynn.

BTW, I heard that one of the images on the computer was of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood. A nice little nod there.


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  #1259  
Old September 15th, 2014, 4:41 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
One complaint I am hearing is that it's hard to hear him - i.e., that the sound mixing is making his voice blend in with surrounding noise. I'm having that problem at times myself (which might be a BBC America problem, not a problem with the actual mixing). I'm solving the problem by watching the show with headphones on after my initial viewing. It's easy to understand in headphones. But if I watch an episode through the television speakers even after watching with headphones, I still have the same problem with hearing what Capaldi is saying, even though by now I already know the lines. I tried this experiment with the Dalek episode.
I have no problem with his accent and actually think it's pretty mild, but I also have a hard time hearing him at times. I think sometimes he doesn't enunciate and it gets lost in the background music. I often have to watch Who with subtitles, though, because of that; it's not Capaldi alone. It's either BBC America or the sound mixing in general. The headphones are a good tip. Thanks.


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Old September 15th, 2014, 9:48 am
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Re: The new Doctor Who v.5 (spoilers for season 8)

I always watch with subs, seeing as English isn't my first language, it's easy to miss something without it. That said, so far I have no issues with Capaldi when the subs falter. Which happens quite a lot.

Matt Smith was actually harder to follow at times, probably because he talked so fast.

Loved the latest episode, Listen.


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