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Have any Slytherins ever been trustworthy?



 
 
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  #121  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:02 pm
Fawkesified  Male.gif Fawkesified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotharry
As I decided yesterday this topic is very confusing, but I've thought about it over the night and decided that there is different levels of evil. And so some of the Slytherins are just pure evil. Others are sort of evil and there are some Slytherins who are just a little evil. And maybe we get to see one of those slytherins that are just a little evil and maybe that is the one of the good slytherins. who knows.
It really depends on your definition of evil, doesn't it? Would you say that Malfoy junior was evil? Probably yes. I would not - I don't think bullying other pupils is 'bad' enough to be refered to as 'evil'!


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  #122  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:10 pm
wizkid6  Male.gif wizkid6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fawkesified
It really depends on your definition of evil, doesn't it? Would you say that Malfoy junior was evil? Probably yes. I would not - I don't think bullying other pupils is 'bad' enough to be reffered to as 'evil'!
Draco has been influenced by his parents his whole entire life. I'd say Lucius Malfoy is evil because he made his choices by himself but Draco? I don't think Draco is old enough to be considered "evil."l Dumbledore said that it is our choices that make us who we are and I don't think Draco has made enough truly independent choices to be deemed evil.


  #123  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:16 pm
Fawkesified  Male.gif Fawkesified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid6
Draco has been influenced by his parents his whole entire life. I'd say Lucius Malfoy is evil because he made his choices by himself but Draco? I don't think Draco is old enough to be considered "evil."l Dumbledore said that it is our choices that make us who we are and I don't think Draco has made enough truly independent choices to be deemed evil.
Exactly.


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  #124  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:17 pm
hotharry  Female.gif hotharry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid6
Draco has been influenced by his parents his whole entire life. I'd say Lucius Malfoy is evil because he made his choices by himself but Draco? I don't think Draco is old enough to be considered "evil."l Dumbledore said that it is our choices that make us who we are and I don't think Draco has made enough truly independent choices to be deemed evil.
So wait are you saying that Draco could have to power to become good?


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  #125  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:19 pm
Fawkesified  Male.gif Fawkesified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotharry
So wait are you saying that Draco could have to power to become good?
No, we are saying he is not evil.


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  #126  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:21 pm
hotharry  Female.gif hotharry is offline
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Originally Posted by Fawkesified
No, we are saying he is not evil.
lol! I guess I didn't mean to say evil, maybe just levels of Bad and evil in Slytherin. I think that some of Malfoys choices are bad. He wants to Help umbridge do mean things, and this path leads him to evil. So I think that in a way he is heading the same place as his father.


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  #127  
Old February 25th, 2005, 7:24 pm
Saz_k  Female.gif Saz_k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkesified
Yes. JK has told us that there is 'one good Slytherin'.
i think mabe in Dracos detour that draco ma become good *hopeful face*


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  #128  
Old February 25th, 2005, 9:47 pm
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Originally Posted by Saz_k
i think mabe in Dracos detour that draco ma become good *hopeful face*
Anything's possible. Probable? That's a little different.

I do hope that something happens to show Draco that he's an insufferable little snot and he has no reason to be. His father got where he was by bribery and blackmail, and that's not anything to be proud of.

I have hope for the little snot to improve. But turning "good"? I'm not holding my breath.


  #129  
Old February 26th, 2005, 8:35 pm
wizkid6  Male.gif wizkid6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotharry
lol! I guess I didn't mean to say evil, maybe just levels of Bad and evil in Slytherin. I think that some of Malfoys choices are bad. He wants to Help umbridge do mean things, and this path leads him to evil. So I think that in a way he is heading the same place as his father.
I do agree that some of Malfoy's choices are bad but then again, so are some of Harry's. We have to remember that we are restricted by the "Harry filter," meaning everything we see is how Harry perceives it. If the stories were called "Draco Malfoy and the _______" I'm sure we would see everything totally in a different light, perhaps even agree with some of Draco's choices. Knowing his background, I doubt anyone could be that different from what Draco is now. "Pure-Blood Supremacy" is all he has heard in his entire life and I know in his place, it would be hard to believe anything on the contrary. If your father was a DE, wouldn't you think that was a respectable job, at least until you were a lot older and recognized the faults of it?

I'm not saying Draco is an angel but that it isn't really his fault for a lot of the things that he has done.


  #130  
Old February 26th, 2005, 10:54 pm
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid6
I do agree that some of Malfoy's choices are bad but then again, so are some of Harry's. We have to remember that we are restricted by the "Harry filter," meaning everything we see is how Harry perceives it. If the stories were called "Draco Malfoy and the _______" I'm sure we would see everything totally in a different light, perhaps even agree with some of Draco's choices. Knowing his background, I doubt anyone could be that different from what Draco is now. "Pure-Blood Supremacy" is all he has heard in his entire life and I know in his place, it would be hard to believe anything on the contrary. If your father was a DE, wouldn't you think that was a respectable job, at least until you were a lot older and recognized the faults of it?

I'm not saying Draco is an angel but that it isn't really his fault for a lot of the things that he has done.
Beautifully said my Ravenclaw friend! The fact that we do indeed see everything from Harry's POV is monumentous in determining what exactly it is that we are being led to believe about the Slytherins. I wholeheartedly believe that Draco isn't as much of an evil git as he is made out to be (in Potter's POV). Sure, he may be a jerk in the first place, but when you add the likely possibility of him being brainwashed and made to do certain things, then it just compounds the situation and therefore you end up with an supposedly evil little twit. I believe this to be so, and, in thinking such, I don't really agree with people who say that Draco as well as the rest of the Slytherin house are evil, untrustworthy, etc. The majority of the house of Slytherin are like Draco anyway, I would imagine. For that matter, the entire school!

People turn out the way they do because of the kind of childhood (or lack thereof) they have and the types of influence their parents have on them. You can't always blame the parents for EVERYTHING, mind you, because it isn't always their fault. As you called it, the "Harry Filter" (bloody brilliant term!!) really limits our perception of the goings on at Hogwarts because we don't always get the other side's opinion. Anyway, great post! Cheers mate!


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Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #131  
Old February 27th, 2005, 2:22 pm
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
Beautifully said my Ravenclaw friend! The fact that we do indeed see everything from Harry's POV is monumentous in determining what exactly it is that we are being led to believe about the Slytherins. I wholeheartedly believe that Draco isn't as much of an evil git as he is made out to be (in Potter's POV). Sure, he may be a jerk in the first place, but when you add the likely possibility of him being brainwashed and made to do certain things, then it just compounds the situation and therefore you end up with an supposedly evil little twit. I believe this to be so, and, in thinking such, I don't really agree with people who say that Draco as well as the rest of the Slytherin house are evil, untrustworthy, etc. The majority of the house of Slytherin are like Draco anyway, I would imagine. For that matter, the entire school!

People turn out the way they do because of the kind of childhood (or lack thereof) they have and the types of influence their parents have on them. You can't always blame the parents for EVERYTHING, mind you, because it isn't always their fault. As you called it, the "Harry Filter" (bloody brilliant term!!) really limits our perception of the goings on at Hogwarts because we don't always get the other side's opinion. Anyway, great post! Cheers mate!
I don't believe Draco's evil. He's misguided, and yes, his upbringing is what I think is responsible for THAT. Lucius is evil. He's made a concious choice to do things that hurt other people, and he's twisted his son into a small copy of him. As I said earlier, I hope that Draco realizes what an amoral person his father is and decides that he's better than that, and that he knows what right and wrong are.

I will agree that there's a certain prejudice inherant in the books because Harry's the protagonist. But Draco isn't exactly a sympathetic character, with his own prejudices and attitudes. Still... it'd be interesting to see.


  #132  
Old February 28th, 2005, 5:55 am
mattbufford  Male.gif mattbufford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
I don't believe Draco's evil. He's misguided, and yes, his upbringing is what I think is responsible for THAT. Lucius is evil. He's made a concious choice to do things that hurt other people, and he's twisted his son into a small copy of him. As I said earlier, I hope that Draco realizes what an amoral person his father is and decides that he's better than that, and that he knows what right and wrong are.

I will agree that there's a certain prejudice inherant in the books because Harry's the protagonist. But Draco isn't exactly a sympathetic character, with his own prejudices and attitudes. Still... it'd be interesting to see.
Very eloquently put! I agree that Draco isn't evil, but he has the potential to be. In many ways, he's one of the most interesting characters. With his connections and power, he'd be a formidable Death Eater, but he could also turn on his father and become unsympathetic to Voldemort's cause. I think it'll be interesting what Draco, and the other Slytherins, do in the next book when Voldie's cause will be public. They will be forced to choose a side, and it'll be intruguing to see what they do.....once again, it's all about choice.


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  #133  
Old February 28th, 2005, 7:31 am
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbufford
Very eloquently put! I agree that Draco isn't evil, but he has the potential to be. In many ways, he's one of the most interesting characters. With his connections and power, he'd be a formidable Death Eater, but he could also turn on his father and become unsympathetic to Voldemort's cause. I think it'll be interesting what Draco, and the other Slytherins, do in the next book when Voldie's cause will be public. They will be forced to choose a side, and it'll be intruguing to see what they do.....once again, it's all about choice.
As a Slytherin, I am personally wishing to see some Slytherins turn on Voldemort as well as their Death Eater parents, just to make things interesting. As far as Draco is concerned, I agree that he may just choose to join the side of light, for whatever reason be it for himself or because he actually turns out to be good; the snotty little git that he is anyway.


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Severus Snape: That is the second time you've spoken out of turn, Miss Granger. Are you incapable of restraining yourself, or do you take pride in being an insufferable know-it-all?

Draco Malfoy: Longbottom, if brains were gold then you'd be poorer than Weasley, and that's saying something.

Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #134  
Old February 28th, 2005, 7:42 am
strwznbrry  Female.gif strwznbrry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
As a Slytherin, I am personally wishing to see some Slytherins turn on Voldemort as well as their Death Eater parents, just to make things interesting. As far as Draco is concerned, I agree that he may just choose to join the side of light, for whatever reason be it for himself or because he actually turns out to be good; the snotty little git that he is anyway.
I really can't see the DE's turning on Voldemort. Maybe the kids but I don't think Draco will be one of them either. (Watch me be completely wrong) I just see Draco as too...nasty to suddenly become a stong anti-Voldemort kind of person. I think if Draco ends up deciding that he doesn't agree with Voldemort that he will probably just stay out of the fight. No, that doesn't sound right either. I don't want to say Draco is evil because I don't believe he is but I do think he is a nasty boy and I don't see him as a character we can look to for support.


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  #135  
Old February 28th, 2005, 7:56 am
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strwznbrry
I really can't see the DE's turning on Voldemort. Maybe the kids but I don't think Draco will be one of them either. (Watch me be completely wrong) I just see Draco as too...nasty to suddenly become a stong anti-Voldemort kind of person. I think if Draco ends up deciding that he doesn't agree with Voldemort that he will probably just stay out of the fight. No, that doesn't sound right either. I don't want to say Draco is evil because I don't believe he is but I do think he is a nasty boy and I don't see him as a character we can look to for support.
Well, I never said that the DE's would turn on Voldemort (unless some of them KNEW that they could actually defeat him) because that is unlikely at this point, at least to me. Regarding Draco, I don't think he would be completely good. He would have to have a good reason to turn on Voldie.


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Draco Malfoy: Longbottom, if brains were gold then you'd be poorer than Weasley, and that's saying something.

Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #136  
Old February 28th, 2005, 8:15 am
strwznbrry  Female.gif strwznbrry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
Well, I never said that the DE's would turn on Voldemort (unless some of them KNEW that they could actually defeat him) because that is unlikely at this point, at least to me. Regarding Draco, I don't think he would be completely good. He would have to have a good reason to turn on Voldie.
Sorry, I read this
Quote:
As a Slytherin, I am personally wishing to see some Slytherins turn on Voldemort as well as their Death Eater parents, just to make things interesting
and somehow interpreted it as you saying some Slytherins and the DE's turning on Voldemort. Chalk it up to me being tired. I see what you were saying now.


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  #137  
Old February 28th, 2005, 8:17 am
Warozaka  Undisclosed.gif Warozaka is offline
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I am very septical about Draco. I think it would be logical if he ended up as a Death Eaters, because he is more and more like his father, instead of becoming more and more different as some boys do in their teens, when they are old enough to have their own will;
I am certain that many Slytherins can be trustworthy. Of course, the DE almost always come from Slytherin, but it does not mean all the people sorted in that house are bad! It would be a quarter of the Hogwarts' students!


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  #138  
Old February 28th, 2005, 8:40 am
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strwznbrry
Sorry, I read this...and somehow interpreted it as you saying some Slytherins and the DE's turning on Voldemort. Chalk it up to me being tired. I see what you were saying now.
Nah, don't sweat it. No big deal.


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Severus Snape: That is the second time you've spoken out of turn, Miss Granger. Are you incapable of restraining yourself, or do you take pride in being an insufferable know-it-all?

Draco Malfoy: Longbottom, if brains were gold then you'd be poorer than Weasley, and that's saying something.

Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #139  
Old February 28th, 2005, 9:32 am
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Personally I don't think Draco will get a chance to be a proper death eater, unless something very drastic happens in HPB to push him over the proverbial edge he is still a student, and according to his father (who would probably whisper this in Voldie's ear) he is pretty much useless. I think if he is rejected by both the good and bad sides he will be at his most evil, he lives in constant fear of rejection (most bullies do) and so if he is rejected by Voldemort and his father as a DE he will explode with rage and be even more of a threat. At least that is what I'm hoping for, that would be good reading.


  #140  
Old February 28th, 2005, 10:59 pm
LexiBlack  Female.gif LexiBlack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkesified
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexiBlack
I have no idea who it could be, but Blaise Z. would probably be a good guess.


How can you say that - we know absolutely nothing about him!
I think the fact that we don't know a lot about him says a lot. If he were close to Malfoy then I believe that we would hear him mentioned more often. I am also going off of stuff that others have said. I made a point to say that I did not know, it was just a guess. It's like someone saying that Harry and Luna (or any other pair) are going to get together. There is nothing saying that they will but people still think it. (and I don't want to get into a shippng debate over this with anyone, I'm just trying to make a point).
That was not the main point I was trying to get across in what I wrote anyway.


 
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