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Have any Slytherins ever been trustworthy?



 
 
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  #141  
Old February 28th, 2005, 11:33 pm
Lotario  Female.gif Lotario is offline
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I'm sure, that we will see a trustworthy Slytherin - it wouldn't make much sense to show us that the world is not divided into good and evil by characters like Crouch sen. and at the same time divide Hogwarts into good or bad houses. And the students are sorted into Houses at their first year - they would be hopeless cases at the age of 11, if every Slytherin would turn out bad.

And I've just found a tiny piece of evidence: In the last chapter of GoF Dumbledore honored Harry in his speech and Harry saw "that Malfoy, Crabbe and GŲyle and many of the other Slytherins had remained defiantly in their seats" So at least one or two Slytherins drank to Harry, because he showed bravery facing Voldemort.

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  #142  
Old February 28th, 2005, 11:51 pm
lilly_potter  Female.gif lilly_potter is offline
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I totally agree. I don't think all Slytherins are evil. They have just gotten a bad rep (you know the saying--one bad apple spoils the whole bunch). Harry's POV doesn't make us think otherwise, as all his experiences with Slytherins have been bad ones. True, some Slytherins just make you want to retch, but I think the vast majority could be okay. Just look at Snape, he hates Harry (because of who his father is), but he is a Slytherin and he is doing good in the fight against Voldemort. So unless Rowling proves otherwise, Slytherins aren't all that bad.


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  #143  
Old February 28th, 2005, 11:55 pm
JakeOfRavenclaw  Male.gif JakeOfRavenclaw is offline
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I'm sure that there are. After all what would be the point of keeping the house around if everyone in it was evil? There are some trustworthy Slytherins, just like there are nasty, untrustworthy people in other houses.


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  #144  
Old March 1st, 2005, 3:42 am
wizkid6  Male.gif wizkid6 is offline
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Being in Slytherin would be a putback for most normal wizards, though, because they would be influenced greatly by the "bad" crowd. Only kids with very strong characaters could be able to uphold their own personal ideals with all of the peer pressure. Also, by some twisted form of "guilty by association," it might make getting a high level job more difficult because of this trustworthy issue.


  #145  
Old March 1st, 2005, 6:12 am
mattbufford  Male.gif mattbufford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid6
Being in Slytherin would be a putback for most normal wizards, though, because they would be influenced greatly by the "bad" crowd. Only kids with very strong characaters could be able to uphold their own personal ideals with all of the peer pressure. Also, by some twisted form of "guilty by association," it might make getting a high level job more difficult because of this trustworthy issue.
That hasn't hindered Daddy Malfoy or any of the other Slytherin parents from having high-paying jobs.....


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  #146  
Old March 1st, 2005, 6:02 pm
hotharry  Female.gif hotharry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizkid6
I do agree that some of Malfoy's choices are bad but then again, so are some of Harry's. We have to remember that we are restricted by the "Harry filter," meaning everything we see is how Harry perceives it. If the stories were called "Draco Malfoy and the _______" I'm sure we would see everything totally in a different light, perhaps even agree with some of Draco's choices. Knowing his background, I doubt anyone could be that different from what Draco is now. "Pure-Blood Supremacy" is all he has heard in his entire life and I know in his place, it would be hard to believe anything on the contrary. If your father was a DE, wouldn't you think that was a respectable job, at least until you were a lot older and recognized the faults of it?

I'm not saying Draco is an angel but that it isn't really his fault for a lot of the things that he has done.
You are most definately right that we see Malfoy through Harrys POV which is not always correct. But I will not let Malfoy off the hook that easily. There is a point in everyones life when they know what is right and wrong, despite how they have been raised. I don't know if Malfoy has reached this point yet, but I'll give him a benefit of a doubt in your case. But in a reality there is a point where everyone of us knows that what we are doing is wrong. And that is the point where we choose to continue to do the wrong act and justify it or we look at it and say "This is wrong, and I'm never doing it again." So the question is has Draco hit this point. If so then I believe he is truely evil because he has chosen so himself. And if he has not hit this point and still following his fathers footsteps then of course he is not evil, just misguided. But someday that question will come to him and he will have to decide. Maybe we will even see that decision in the next book. Yet, he will still have to make the choice between right and wrong.


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  #147  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 1:20 am
wizkid6  Male.gif wizkid6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbufford
That hasn't hindered Daddy Malfoy or any of the other Slytherin parents from having high-paying jobs.....
They used bribery to get where they are in society right now. If Lucius Malfoy hadn't paid Fudge and the other top dogs I doubt they would spare him another glance.

But where they got the money from? The Malfoy family has probably been wealthy for many generations, far before LV came to power and got his DE's. His ancestors probably were smooth talking wizards that slithered their way to the top.


  #148  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 6:07 pm
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotharry
You are most definately right that we see Malfoy through Harrys POV which is not always correct. But I will not let Malfoy off the hook that easily. There is a point in everyones life when they know what is right and wrong, despite how they have been raised. I don't know if Malfoy has reached this point yet, but I'll give him a benefit of a doubt in your case. But in a reality there is a point where everyone of us knows that what we are doing is wrong. And that is the point where we choose to continue to do the wrong act and justify it or we look at it and say "This is wrong, and I'm never doing it again." So the question is has Draco hit this point. If so then I believe he is truely evil because he has chosen so himself. And if he has not hit this point and still following his fathers footsteps then of course he is not evil, just misguided. But someday that question will come to him and he will have to decide. Maybe we will even see that decision in the next book. Yet, he will still have to make the choice between right and wrong.
I honestly don't think Malfoy's gotten to that point yet. I think this is illustrated by the scene in (can't remember which... don't have the book) where he and his father are in the shop where Draco messes with something out of his league... he's genuninely scared. Lucius takes it as matter-of-fact.

I see Draco as a big fish in a small pond, kind of. He doesn't know what's out there, what kind of evil is possible. But he thinks he does. He thinks he knows everything, and that he's invincible, exactly like any other teenager does. I think he'll be forced to confront, not only his own mortality, but his own MORALITY. He's still following what Daddy Dearest has taught him (and I suppose Mommy must have had something to do with it, although I don't see it) and not thinking for himself yet. He thinks he knows what the world is about. He hasn't had to confront death yet, either the prospect of his own death, or dealing with someone else. He didn't care about Cedric. He probably only knew the name. To Draco, this whole thing is about as real as a Quidditch match... yes, some people may get hurt, but they can go to the healer and get fixed up. But to him, nobody's really getting hurt. Nobody's going to die. And I think when he confronts that, and re-evaluates his basic assumption, he's going to have a major reaction to the knowledge that, yes, people ARE dying. People he knows. This is very serious. It's not a game. That's not the kind of thing you can tell someone, they have to learn it on their own, to know it at a deep, primitive level, that this involves people's LIVES. There are consequences far more serious involved than losing the House Cup. I don't think he has that deep-down knowledge yet.


  #149  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 7:47 pm
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"There wasn't a wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin" - this isn't saying that all Slytherins are bad. I think the house has a deserved reputation for evil characters, but there are some trustworthy and good people in that house... Cunning and ambition, I think I have both and only a few people regard me as truly demonic.


  #150  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 9:20 pm
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSphynx
....only a few people regard me as truly demonic.
Oh yes....a demonic little twit you are my friend!!!! Just kidding!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
I honestly don't think Malfoy's gotten to that point yet. I think this is illustrated by the scene in (can't remember which... don't have the book) where he and his father are in the shop where Draco messes with something out of his league... he's genuninely scared. Lucius takes it as matter-of-fact.

I see Draco as a big fish in a small pond, kind of. He doesn't know what's out there, what kind of evil is possible. But he thinks he does. He thinks he knows everything, and that he's invincible, exactly like any other teenager does. I think he'll be forced to confront, not only his own mortality, but his own MORALITY. He's still following what Daddy Dearest has taught him (and I suppose Mommy must have had something to do with it, although I don't see it) and not thinking for himself yet. He thinks he knows what the world is about. He hasn't had to confront death yet, either the prospect of his own death, or dealing with someone else. He didn't care about Cedric. He probably only knew the name. To Draco, this whole thing is about as real as a Quidditch match... yes, some people may get hurt, but they can go to the healer and get fixed up. But to him, nobody's really getting hurt. Nobody's going to die. And I think when he confronts that, and re-evaluates his basic assumption, he's going to have a major reaction to the knowledge that, yes, people ARE dying. People he knows. This is very serious. It's not a game. That's not the kind of thing you can tell someone, they have to learn it on their own, to know it at a deep, primitive level, that this involves people's LIVES. There are consequences far more serious involved than losing the House Cup. I don't think he has that deep-down knowledge yet.
Well said! I agree with you about Draco blurring the line between real and fantasy. However, it seems odd that he would still act this way when he knew who Cedric Diggory was. At least, I think he knew who he was and what he looked like because he was, after all, a Tri-Wizard Champion competitor and with all of the attention that they received, all of Hogwarts knew him, even Draco. Though I agree that Draco didn't particularly care one way or the other what happened to him, the fact remains that he did know full well that Cedric was murdered by Voldemort and yet he remains passive about it. So in that regard, maybe Draco really has become desensitized by the Dark Arts and the death that usually surrounds it. Just speculation though. And about that scene you were referring to in the books, I can only remember one instance where Draco and Lucius were in that shop and that was in COS, where Lucius was getting rid of some things that would implicate him as a Death Eater, evil bastrd, etc. Harry himself witnesses this interaction (after his idiocy in traveling by the Floo Network). However, I may recall another instance in either GOF or OOTP where they visit that shop again, but I can't remember. A deep post though and very nice!


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  #151  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 10:56 pm
strange magic  Female.gif strange magic is offline
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Got to have been at least one...


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  #152  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 11:53 pm
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
Well said! I agree with you about Draco blurring the line between real and fantasy. However, it seems odd that he would still act this way when he knew who Cedric Diggory was. At least, I think he knew who he was and what he looked like because he was, after all, a Tri-Wizard Champion competitor and with all of the attention that they received, all of Hogwarts knew him, even Draco. Though I agree that Draco didn't particularly care one way or the other what happened to him, the fact remains that he did know full well that Cedric was murdered by Voldemort and yet he remains passive about it. So in that regard, maybe Draco really has become desensitized by the Dark Arts and the death that usually surrounds it. Just speculation though. And about that scene you were referring to in the books, I can only remember one instance where Draco and Lucius were in that shop and that was in COS, where Lucius was getting rid of some things that would implicate him as a Death Eater, evil bastrd, etc. Harry himself witnesses this interaction (after his idiocy in traveling by the Floo Network). However, I may recall another instance in either GOF or OOTP where they visit that shop again, but I can't remember. A deep post though and very nice!
He may have known who he was, but that's entirely different than KNOWING him. For instance, I know who... oh, pick someone famous... umm... George Clooney. I know who he is, but I don't know him. And if he died, it really wouldn't make much difference to my daily life. On the other hand, if my best friend died, or my grandmother, it would have a much greater impact. In the same way, I think Draco needs that impact to shatter his self-assured little world and bring him into reality, or maturity, or whatever. Harry's got that because he's known death and pain and hardship. Draco's been a spoiled brat so far, and at some point that has to end. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts to that and what his choices are.

As far as the instance, I have a very hazy recollection, but it seemed to me like Draco didn't realize that dark magic can harm him and those he cares about as well as people he doesn't like.

Thanks for the praise. I wasn't sure I was getting it out like I wanted to...


  #153  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 12:23 am
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
He may have known who he was, but that's entirely different than KNOWING him. For instance, I know who... oh, pick someone famous... umm... George Clooney. I know who he is, but I don't know him. And if he died, it really wouldn't make much difference to my daily life. On the other hand, if my best friend died, or my grandmother, it would have a much greater impact. In the same way, I think Draco needs that impact to shatter his self-assured little world and bring him into reality, or maturity, or whatever. Harry's got that because he's known death and pain and hardship. Draco's been a spoiled brat so far, and at some point that has to end. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts to that and what his choices are.

As far as the instance, I have a very hazy recollection, but it seemed to me like Draco didn't realize that dark magic can harm him and those he cares about as well as people he doesn't like.

Thanks for the praise. I wasn't sure I was getting it out like I wanted to...
If Draco truly believes that dark magic can't hurt him, then I can't WAIT until he gets his first dosage of Crucio!!!! How's THAT for reality ya little git?! HAHAHA Anyway, I see more clearly as to where you are coming from with your post. Interesting choice, George Clooney......hmm. As I was saying, yeah, it's true that there is a difference between someone you know, ie family and friends, as opposed to someone you know OF, ie celebrities and politicians. However, this particular instance was a fellow schoolmate, one who had rubbed elbows with nearly everyone in the school at some point and someone who existed not in the tabloids or the television, but in real life and at your very own school. I'm going on past experience here, so bear with me. There were a couple of people at my old high school and at my college, Juilliard, that lost their lives by accident or murder. Now, while I didn't PERSONALLY know them like friends, I did see them from time to time and even said hello on occasion. That would be considered making an acquaintence, for better or for worse. Somehow, I'm beginning to see a gray area between knowing someone and knowing of someone. That's where these people fell into. I knew them enough to be affected by the tragedy and saddened by it, but I didn't know them well enough to be utterly distraught and demoralized by their deaths.

To me at least, it's quite different when it's someone at your school or your workplace or even your own neighborhood who loses their lives. Yes, Draco wasn't friends with Cedric, but they saw each other constantly in the corridors, at meal times, maybe classes. That's just like today's schools. If a fellow schoolmate of yours was killed in an accident and you knew who they were (besides the fact that they even came from your school to begin with), you'd be affected by it more or less and in a different way then if it were to be George Clooney. The whole school would be affected, just like we saw at Hogwarts.

Sure, Draco was still pretending like it was no big deal, but you have to assume that he felt something at the loss and is just way too proud and egotistical to show it openly. Otherwise, he would then truly be an evil bugger with no sympathy. I know I'm rambling, but I am from Texas, and us Texas folk are long-winded people. Kind of like Ents. Anyway, that's my opinion. Cheers!


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Draco Malfoy: Longbottom, if brains were gold then you'd be poorer than Weasley, and that's saying something.

Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #154  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 12:41 am
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
If Draco truly believes that dark magic can't hurt him, then I can't WAIT until he gets his first dosage of Crucio!!!! How's THAT for reality ya little git?! HAHAHA Anyway, I see more clearly as to where you are coming from with your post. Interesting choice, George Clooney......hmm. As I was saying, yeah, it's true that there is a difference between someone you know, ie family and friends, as opposed to someone you know OF, ie celebrities and politicians. However, this particular instance was a fellow schoolmate, one who had rubbed elbows with nearly everyone in the school at some point and someone who existed not in the tabloids or the television, but in real life and at your very own school. I'm going on past experience here, so bear with me. There were a couple of people at my old high school and at my college, Juilliard, that lost their lives by accident or murder. Now, while I didn't PERSONALLY know them like friends, I did see them from time to time and even said hello on occasion. That would be considered making an acquaintence, for better or for worse. Somehow, I'm beginning to see a gray area between knowing someone and knowing of someone. That's where these people fell into. I knew them enough to be affected by the tragedy and saddened by it, but I didn't know them well enough to be utterly distraught and demoralized by their deaths.

To me at least, it's quite different when it's someone at your school or your workplace or even your own neighborhood who loses their lives. Yes, Draco wasn't friends with Cedric, but they saw each other constantly in the corridors, at meal times, maybe classes. That's just like today's schools. If a fellow schoolmate of yours was killed in an accident and you knew who they were (besides the fact that they even came from your school to begin with), you'd be affected by it more or less and in a different way then if it were to be George Clooney. The whole school would be affected, just like we saw at Hogwarts.

Sure, Draco was still pretending like it was no big deal, but you have to assume that he felt something at the loss and is just way too proud and egotistical to show it openly. Otherwise, he would then truly be an evil bugger with no sympathy. I know I'm rambling, but I am from Texas, and us Texas folk are long-winded people. Kind of like Ents. Anyway, that's my opinion. Cheers!
I just had my husband name celebrities, as I don't follow popular... well, much of anything popular, really. Or should I say, mainstream. Anyway, beside the point... (I like the Ent reference, by the way... )

I've had people I went to school with die. It didn't really affect me, because I knew of them, but I didn't know them. Does that make me a "truly evil bugger with no sympathy"? No (at least I hope not). It makes me a person who is momentarily saddened by the loss of life, but not truly affected. To me, the only difference between people I know of and celebrities are that I saw the people I know of in person once or twice.

As a matter of fact, a person who I associated with because of band, but wasn't really close to... her boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend at the time) tried to commit suicide and failed, leaving him a vegetable. I was somewhat sad, because I'd met him a few times, but I'm not still upset about it. On the other hand, I found out that a friend of mine who I lost contact with has had a couple suicide attempts, and that made me wonder if there was something I could have done, and why she felt that life was that bad.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the closer a person is to you, the more it affects you. I never saw any evidence that Draco was particularly close to Cedric more than knowing him by name and face. Nobody close to Draco has had anything bad happen to them. Bellatrix was in Azkaban from the time he was small, if not before he was born. Lucius has always squirmed out of whatever trouble he's been in. His friends and their parents similarly avoided trouble. But when it hits home, he'll have a lot of thinking to do and some hard choices to make. I'm pulling for him to make the right ones.


  #155  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 1:22 am
CajunFry  Male.gif CajunFry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
I just had my husband name celebrities, as I don't follow popular... well, much of anything popular, really. Or should I say, mainstream. Anyway, beside the point... (I like the Ent reference, by the way... )

I've had people I went to school with die. It didn't really affect me, because I knew of them, but I didn't know them. Does that make me a "truly evil bugger with no sympathy"? No (at least I hope not). It makes me a person who is momentarily saddened by the loss of life, but not truly affected. To me, the only difference between people I know of and celebrities are that I saw the people I know of in person once or twice.

As a matter of fact, a person who I associated with because of band, but wasn't really close to... her boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend at the time) tried to commit suicide and failed, leaving him a vegetable. I was somewhat sad, because I'd met him a few times, but I'm not still upset about it. On the other hand, I found out that a friend of mine who I lost contact with has had a couple suicide attempts, and that made me wonder if there was something I could have done, and why she felt that life was that bad.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the closer a person is to you, the more it affects you. I never saw any evidence that Draco was particularly close to Cedric more than knowing him by name and face. Nobody close to Draco has had anything bad happen to them. Bellatrix was in Azkaban from the time he was small, if not before he was born. Lucius has always squirmed out of whatever trouble he's been in. His friends and their parents similarly avoided trouble. But when it hits home, he'll have a lot of thinking to do and some hard choices to make. I'm pulling for him to make the right ones.
As Lucius would say, "Admirable sentiments, indeed." I agree with you. By the way, Bellatrix (Lestrange) is a female, not male. Yeah, I know that Draco and Cedric weren't close, but when you said that "It makes me a person who is momentarily saddened by the loss of life, but not truly affected," you just admitted that you were in fact affected by it to some degree. It was temporary, yes, but you were still touched ever so briefly because of it. The sadness at the loss of life affected you at the time being. Admit it.

I totally understand what you're saying, so I'm not taking things out of context, it's just that we are all affected by such things, no matter how long or short those emotions last. You and I are both over those losses we mentioned during our school years, but you can't say that it didn't affect you; because it did. We just weren't as close to those people as others and so it wore off very quickly.

As far as Draco is concerned, that temporary sense of sadness is the kind of feeling that I'm trying to convey and I don't know if I'm making my point clear enough. That's the gray area that I was referring to earlier, the middle of the road sentiments that lie there. It's hard to explain but I don't know of any other way of interpreting that.


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Lucius Malfoy: Dear me, whatís the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they donít even pay you well for it?
  #156  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 4:02 am
perceval  Undisclosed.gif perceval is offline
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Well, that upbringing doesn't neccessarily make one turn out evil, as Sirius and Andromeda demonstrated. In fact, with Sirius gone, I picture Andromeda seeing herself and her daughter as the sole people upholding the honor of the Noble and Most Ancient House of Black, and seeing her sisters as so blinded by fear, and the hatred that comes from it, that they've lowered themselves to being another's slave.

I would expect Andromeda was a Slytherin like her sisters.


  #157  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 4:19 am
legstump  Male.gif legstump is offline
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Having only read pages five and six, I would like to add my two cents.

Firstly, the original Slytherin himself, must not have totally without scruples, for if he was, how could have the cofounders permitted his presence, even to begin with. So even the slytherins have basic level of trust worthiness, if it suits them.

Secondly, this seems to be one of those, shades of good and evil types of posts. Whilst background and upbringing do help define who we are, its our choices that make us. I really cant second guess what a cornered syltherin might do.

Interesting times ahead for Master malfoy and company.


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  #158  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 2:58 pm
Tirza  Female.gif Tirza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunFry
As Lucius would say, "Admirable sentiments, indeed." I agree with you. By the way, Bellatrix (Lestrange) is a female, not male. Yeah, I know that Draco and Cedric weren't close, but when you said that "It makes me a person who is momentarily saddened by the loss of life, but not truly affected," you just admitted that you were in fact affected by it to some degree. It was temporary, yes, but you were still touched ever so briefly because of it. The sadness at the loss of life affected you at the time being. Admit it.

I totally understand what you're saying, so I'm not taking things out of context, it's just that we are all affected by such things, no matter how long or short those emotions last. You and I are both over those losses we mentioned during our school years, but you can't say that it didn't affect you; because it did. We just weren't as close to those people as others and so it wore off very quickly.

As far as Draco is concerned, that temporary sense of sadness is the kind of feeling that I'm trying to convey and I don't know if I'm making my point clear enough. That's the gray area that I was referring to earlier, the middle of the road sentiments that lie there. It's hard to explain but I don't know of any other way of interpreting that.
The "he" I was referring to when I talked about Bellatrix was Draco. I know she's female.

When my acquaintance's ex-boyfriend tried to off himself, it didn't affect me deeply enough to realize that I was a shallow, immature, self-centered pain in the rear (which I was). It affected me enough to say, Dude, that sucks. What a moron. There was no REAL effect on me. I figure Draco's the same way. Like when I heard that a girl I was in class with got attacked by a dog. I said, That sucks. Glad I wasn't her, it's gonna take a lot of surgeries to fix that. I didn't examine my own mortality and realize the way I'd been living wasn't quite right. Yeah, I was sad for a moment, but in Draco's case, he could possibly justify it to himself... "If he hadn't tried to show off (or whatever) he wouldn't be dead." I don't see Draco as being able to put himself in someone else's shoes, so to speak.

But my grandparents dying did affect me like that (somewhat... we weren't real close, but that's another story). Someone I was really close to dying would affect me like that, like a close friend or a nuclear family member, someone whose loss affects your daily routine. I think that's what it'll take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by perceval
Well, that upbringing doesn't neccessarily make one turn out evil, as Sirius and Andromeda demonstrated. In fact, with Sirius gone, I picture Andromeda seeing herself and her daughter as the sole people upholding the honor of the Noble and Most Ancient House of Black, and seeing her sisters as so blinded by fear, and the hatred that comes from it, that they've lowered themselves to being another's slave.

I would expect Andromeda was a Slytherin like her sisters.
But Sirius made his own choices, and had that loss of someone near and dear to him in James and Lily. (I don't know much about Andromeda, so I'll leave that discussion for someone else.) And Sirius was a Gryffindor in the first place, so that doesn't really pertain to this discussion. Still, I think that Sirius making his own choices is the reason he was a Gryffindor in the first place. He saw what his family was doing and disagreed with it, forging his own path. He realized right and wrong earlier, but that doesn't mean that those who are blinded by their upbringing are necessarily hopeless cases. More like late bloomers, maybe.



Last edited by Tirza; March 3rd, 2005 at 3:00 pm.
  #159  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 4:56 pm
hotharry  Female.gif hotharry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
I honestly don't think Malfoy's gotten to that point yet. I think this is illustrated by the scene in (can't remember which... don't have the book) where he and his father are in the shop where Draco messes with something out of his league... he's genuninely scared. Lucius takes it as matter-of-fact.
I can't say if Malfoy has or hasn't reached that point yet in his life. The scene you are talking about happens in the Chamber of Secrets which is only the second book. True he may still have not reached that point in the fifth book. But I'm inclined to believe that he may have already and if he hasen't, Draco will most definately make that decision in the next book.

I was talking with my mum last night about this. And she brought up a valid point. That true everybody knows what is right and wrong and they make a decision to change or keep on doing their evil whatevers, but that their background and who they are effects their decision. So even thought Draco could possilbly become good, I bet that since his parents are evil, he will most likely choose to be evil like his father.


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  #160  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 10:46 pm
perceval  Undisclosed.gif perceval is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirza
But Sirius made his own choices, and had that loss of someone near and dear to him in James and Lily. (I don't know much about Andromeda, so I'll leave that discussion for someone else.) And Sirius was a Gryffindor in the first place, so that doesn't really pertain to this discussion. Still, I think that Sirius making his own choices is the reason he was a Gryffindor in the first place. He saw what his family was doing and disagreed with it, forging his own path. He realized right and wrong earlier, but that doesn't mean that those who are blinded by their upbringing are necessarily hopeless cases. More like late bloomers, maybe.
But, both Sirius and Andromeda demonstrate that having the racist, rich, aristocratic upbringing doesn't neccessarily mean someone brought up in it can't distinguish between right and wrong. Draco is capable of knowing better. Sirius and Andromeda both rejecting that viewpoint early on does pertain to this discussion, as Draco loses any excuses.

He even has an advantage Sirius and Andromeda didn't have, by having, first hand, the Pureblood Supremist theory disproven for the entire time he's been at Hogwarts. He's seen Harry, a "halfblood", and Hermione, a muggleborn, outperforming everyone, especially himself, since he got there, not to mention his "halfblood" cousin, the metamorphmagus Auror, setting a standard for members of the Black family that he hasn't been able to maintain. Snape probably figured he had the next Nymphadora when Draco arrived at Hogwarts, and must be very disappointed. Draco can't honestly claim that the "halfbloods" and muggleborns are diluting the magical gene pool, any more.


 
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