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Nagini: Character Analysis



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  #101  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:30 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
Wasn't Voldemort able to tell that Frank was outside with help of Nagini? Long time that I read the book the last time. I'm probably mixing things up.
Yep, Abby's right. Nagini came into the room and told him that Frank was outside. That was when Frank realized he was dealing with some very dangerous people.


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  #102  
Old September 15th, 2009, 10:48 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

I obviously didn't check for over a year, but Nagini needs more love...

I wonder if Nagini was possessed by Voldemort and after that developed a affection for him and stayed with him or if she did it without his influence. She seems to be fairly independent, being able to slither around etc. and still get back to her Master.


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  #103  
Old January 12th, 2010, 1:07 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Well, I admit; I saw this thread and thought "well, what's next?" I can just see Morgoth in ten years setting up Trevor Character Analysis: v. 7 However, there's actually some interesting questions on here, so... I'll give it a shot.

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1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth?
I'm not sure: I always thought that what was talking out of Bathilda's mouth was the soul-bit from Voldemort, and that Nagini was only there as a sort of placeholder. I mean, she already was a horcrux, so there was a separate, living vessel containing a piece of soul all ready to be used, and it didn't hurt that she was an enormous, deadly reptile. But then, Voldemort had proved quite efficiently that he could possess people just as well with an inanimate horcrux. While it's true that there was a coherent thought process on her part, the Brazilian snake in the Muggle zoo also had a coherent thought process, and I highly doubt that that snake was a horcrux.

Quote:
2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?
Yes, I think she was as affectionate towards him as any cat or dog towards a more ordinary master; on this same subject, where do you think Nagini spent the years during which Voldemort was bodiless in Albainia? Surely she wasn't with him? Any thoughts?

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3. We've seen Nagini have a conscious thought process when she tells herself to hold Harry in Godric's Hollow. Is this the result of being a horcrux?
See answer one.

Quote:
4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Ultimately innocent? What standards can we hold her to?
I think she, as far as her own mind, isn't any more evil than your average animal behaving according to its instincts; Voldemort feeds her and provides her with some sort of affection, and so she sticks around. After Voldemort makes her into a horcrux, she displays undoubtedly evil tendencies, but then, that might just be Voldie acting though her- does anyone think Ginny is irredeemably evil?


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  #104  
Old January 12th, 2010, 1:21 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

I always thought that the Voldemort/Nagini relationship with like Filch and Mrs. Norris: the animals are shaped by the rather unpleasant behavior of their masters due to a sense of affection and loyalty. Was Nagini vicious before Voldemort? We don't know.


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  #105  
Old January 12th, 2010, 1:27 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth?

Nagini may have been magical, but, I don't think the bit of Voldemort's soul made her anymore human than it did the diary or any of the other horcruxes.

2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?

I guess she could have been "fond" of him. More than likely, she was dependant on him and served him to be rewarded with a meal.

3. We've seen Nagini have a conscious thought process when she tells herself to hold Harry in Godric's Hollow. Is this the result of being a horcrux?

Not IMO. Like I said, I think she was magical and may have had a spell cast on her by Voldemort to make her a "companion" to his own snakelike personality. I think her thoughts and actions were base on this.

4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Ultimately innocent? What standards can we hold her to?

As an animal, she really doesn't have knowledge of the difference in good and evil. She was living the way of life that was "normal" to her, and, that was Voldemort's evil way.


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  #106  
Old January 12th, 2010, 1:31 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Another thing that most likely strengthened Nagini's loyalty to Voldemort was the fact that he never abused her from what we see. In fact, I'd even say that Voldemort was genuinely fond of Nagini, as she was a representation of Salazar Slytherin's "symbol": the snake.


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  #107  
Old January 12th, 2010, 2:00 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth?

Based on what I've seen, I think a parselmouth can control a snake if the snake is in the presence of the parselmouth. But Nagini does not need to be anywhere near Voldemort in order to obey him. The fact that she can impersonate a human being says that she's certainly beyond the capabilities of the ordinary snake.

But oddly, I'm not sure being a Horcrux makes her more human, even though she can impersonate a human. Creating Horcruxes makes her master less human. Perhaps she is closer to the sort of inhuman human thing that Voldemort becomes than like a regular snake. But is that really more human?

2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?

I'm not sure there's enough information to make this determination.

3. We've seen Nagini have a conscious thought process when she tells herself to hold Harry in Godric's Hollow. Is this the result of being a horcrux?

I would imagine so, yes.

4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Ultimately innocent? What standards can we hold her to? Discuss.

I think the way we read Nagini depends on whether we're reading naturalistically or symbolically. If we read symbolically, then she could be read as a type of the serpent in the garden and would therefore be evil.

But if we read naturalistically, then Nagini should be judged the way animals are generally judged - as essentially innocent of moral evil. She's being controlled by an evil master, but she herself doesn't know right from wrong.

It's like that Far Side cartoon of the pirates returning to their ship from pillaging and plundering along the coast. You see it from the perspective of their faithful dog, standing on the bow of the ship, wagging his tail in anticipation of his humans' return. He doesn't know they're pirates. He just knows they treat him kindly.

That's how I would read Nagini (using a naturalistic reading, of course).


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  #108  
Old January 12th, 2010, 2:38 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Quote:
2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?
Very likely. If Voldemort could sway Quirrell and the other DEs, he could convince Nagini to remain with him. If he were the only Parselmouth she had encountered, she could easily look upon him as being special or important enough to be loyal to.

Quote:
4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Ultimately innocent? What standards can we hold her to?
It's a tricky question to ask about an animal, especially one bound by an form of magic that is ultimately evil.

I would say that being a horcrux made her more willing to obey his commands. Being a part of Voldemort would make her feelings and desires more in tune with his, just as the locket on Ron and the horcrux piece in Harry was able to influence their emotions.

That is, assuming she did have emotions, either by birth or through her connection with Voldemort. Not entirely sure se did in the first place.


The Snape fan side of me feels bad for posting here. I'm going to curl up in a little ball and whimper now.


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  #109  
Old January 12th, 2010, 3:05 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Fleur du mal View Post
Can an animal be 'evil'? Can it be judged by human measures of right and wrong? I don't think so.

My experience with snakes is limited - all right, non-existant - but I do have some experience with cats, dogs, parrots and pets in general. And that experience shows that a pet will do its owner's bidding, no matter what that is, if the owner can train him. He can win the pet's obeyance and thus train him by a) being kind, b) being strict, c) use force, so create fear in the animal and make it obey like this. Most people use a blend of a and b. We didn't really find out what Voldemort did.

The point is - either Nagini was just a snake, an animal with not much more than the infamous 'snakebrain' (the 'oldest' part in every brain) - and then it cannot be judged for what Voldemort trained her to do. Or she was corrupted by Voldemort's soul inside her - in which case she'd be even less responsible in a human sense of the idea of responsibility.
I agree.

My only doubt is: we can see in the magical world some exceedingly intelligent animals. I mean, the owls that serve as post delivery don't seem to me as "normal" owls. Maybe there are also magical snakes, different from the normal ones?


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  #110  
Old January 12th, 2010, 10:17 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by UselessCharmMaster View Post
My only doubt is: we can see in the magical world some exceedingly intelligent animals. I mean, the owls that serve as post delivery don't seem to me as "normal" owls. Maybe there are also magical snakes, different from the normal ones?
IMO it is quite likely that there are intelligent snakes. Intelligent being a relative term of course.


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  #111  
Old February 10th, 2010, 6:08 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by UselessCharmMaster View Post
My only doubt is: we can see in the magical world some exceedingly intelligent animals. I mean, the owls that serve as post delivery don't seem to me as "normal" owls. Maybe there are also magical snakes, different from the normal ones?
IMO did Nagini show some treats that normal snakes don't have (at least I think so, am no snake expert). For example going back to her master after vanishing for a bit or obey orders like killing Snape or simply to communicate with Voldemort. Ok the last one is not an indication as the snake in the zoo also talked to Harry.


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  #112  
Old February 10th, 2010, 3:57 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
IMO did Nagini show some treats that normal snakes don't have (at least I think so, am no snake expert). For example going back to her master after vanishing for a bit or obey orders like killing Snape or simply to communicate with Voldemort. Ok the last one is not an indication as the snake in the zoo also talked to Harry.
I always figured that was because she was a horcrux, and therefore Voldemort had a great degree of control over her. Also I think it was mentioned somewhere that Voldemort had a special affinity for snakes, and was inhabiting them when he was still Vapormort. But on top of that, it's possible Nagini could have had some magical properties.


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  #113  
Old February 10th, 2010, 4:26 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Obviously my favorite character in the book. I love the importance she plays in the end. For me reading the books, you really don't know her importance until the very end when Harry realizes that she is a horcrux
What I love is that we don't know how she found Voldemort, was it later on in life of while in school? He knew parseltongue so its a no brainer on how he controlled her and made her into a horcrux.
But what I would love to know is how much of his soul did he put into her. Did he want her to be more human?
How he made her into a horcrux?
Where did he find her?
How did she find him?
The importance she has to play is the most intriguing to me.
Love this thread


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  #114  
Old February 10th, 2010, 4:38 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Nagini001 View Post
What I love is that we don't know how she found Voldemort, was it later on in life of while in school? He knew parseltongue so its a no brainer on how he controlled her and made her into a horcrux.
I always imagined that they met somewhere between PS/SS and GoF. When Voldemort was hiding in Albania for example.

Quote:
But what I would love to know is how much of his soul did he put into her.
I guess that depends on if a soul is broken into equal parts or that some parts of the soul are more powerful. I like to think that every piece of soul was the same and that Voldemort had just as much of his soul in Nagini as in Harry.

Quote:
Did he want her to be more human?
No, he wanted a tool, something he could trust and use. I do think he cared for her more then for any human.

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How he made her into a horcrux?
When he killed Bertha Jorkins in Albania, the bit of soul he lost attached itself into Nagini.


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  #115  
Old February 10th, 2010, 4:48 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I always imagined that they met somewhere between PS/SS and GoF. When Voldemort was hiding in Albania for example.



I guess that depends on if a soul is broken into equal parts or that some parts of the soul are more powerful. I like to think that every piece of soul was the same and that Voldemort had just as much of his soul in Nagini as in Harry.



No, he wanted a tool, something he could trust and use. I do think he cared for her more then for any human.



When he killed Bertha Jorkins in Albania, the bit of soul he lost attached itself into Nagini.



I do beleive that he cared for her more than any human, this is what I love about this character the only thing that Voldemort could possibly care for. It makes you think more about what went on inside Voldemorts head.


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  #116  
Old February 10th, 2010, 10:10 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
I always figured that was because she was a horcrux, and therefore Voldemort had a great degree of control over her. Also I think it was mentioned somewhere that Voldemort had a special affinity for snakes, and was inhabiting them when he was still Vapormort. But on top of that, it's possible Nagini could have had some magical properties.
When he was switching from snake to snake why did he stick with Nagini in the end? So IMO there must be something special about her, otherwise I'd assume Voldemort would have dumped her like any other snake.

The most significant thing about Nagini is her appearance. To my knowledge are there no such big snakes in Europe, at least not poisonous. The biggest poisonous snake in the world is not even half as tall as Nagini. She could be something like an Anaconda but those are not poisonous at all. Nagini doesn't fit any description of a normal snake, so this suggest to me that she is a special magical snake to beginn with.

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Originally Posted by Nagini001 View Post
Where did he find her?
How did she find him?
They probabbly met when he was hidding in the Albanian woods.


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  #117  
Old February 10th, 2010, 10:54 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
When he was switching from snake to snake why did he stick with Nagini in the end? So IMO there must be something special about her, otherwise I'd assume Voldemort would have dumped her like any other snake.

The most significant thing about Nagini is her appearance. To my knowledge are there no such big snakes in Europe, at least not poisonous. The biggest poisonous snake in the world is not even half as tall as Nagini. She could be something like an Anaconda but those are not poisonous at all. Nagini doesn't fit any description of a normal snake, so this suggest to me that she is a special magical snake to beginn with.


They probabbly met when he was hidding in the Albanian woods.
I have done some research and I have found no such snakes in Albania or in the Albanian Woods. I might be wrong too there might be, but I have found no such sites that have led me to this information.
Or is this information in the book and I (knowing me) missed it?


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  #118  
Old February 10th, 2010, 11:28 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenshi
IMO did Nagini show some treats that normal snakes don't have (at least I think so, am no snake expert). For example going back to her master after vanishing for a bit or obey orders like killing Snape or simply to communicate with Voldemort. Ok the last one is not an indication as the snake in the zoo also talked to Harry.
I regard her "unusual" venom as an indication of some magical traits:
OotP, Ch. 22, St. Mungo's Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries, Page 488, American, HB"It seems there was some rather unusual kind of poison in that snake's fangs that keeps wounds open.... They're sure they'll find an antidote, though, they say they've had much worse cases than mine...

To me, this indicates that Nagini's venom had some magical properties. Whether this magic was hers to begin with (i.e. she is some magical breed of snake, or hybridization of magic and non-magical) or somehow given to her by Voldemort is debatable, I think.

However, I like to regard Nagini as some magical variation of a snake. We know there are magical serpents: basilisks, ashwinders, runespoors, and sea serpents. Therefore, I do not think it unbelievable that Nagini is a similar type of magical snake, or else a cross between a magical serpent and a non-magical one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hes
I always imagined that they met somewhere between PS/SS and GoF. When Voldemort was hiding in Albania for example.
I think this is a reasonable theory. We know Voldemort possessed snakes while in Albania - though he says they died fairly soon after he inhabited them. Therefore, I think it likely that he discovered Nagini in Albania, but did not possess her, being impressed by her strength or some other qualities.

I suppose it is also possible that she was one of the snakes that young Tom Riddle talked to on the field trips he went on with the orphanage. However, I think this less likely, since I do not think Tom Riddle would maintain that close of a connection with anything for that number of years. Therefore, I think it most likely that Nagini provided comfort or some other emotion in Voldemort when he was ruined in Albania.


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  #119  
Old February 10th, 2010, 11:35 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
I regard her "unusual" venom as an indication of some magical traits:
OotP, Ch. 22, St. Mungo's Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries, Page 488, American, HB"It seems there was some rather unusual kind of poison in that snake's fangs that keeps wounds open.... They're sure they'll find an antidote, though, they say they've had much worse cases than mine...

To me, this indicates that Nagini's venom had some magical properties. Whether this magic was hers to begin with (i.e. she is some magical breed of snake, or hybridization of magic and non-magical) or somehow given to her by Voldemort is debatable, I think.

However, I like to regard Nagini as some magical variation of a snake. We know there are magical serpents: basilisks, ashwinders, runespoors, and sea serpents. Therefore, I do not think it unbelievable that Nagini is a similar type of magical snake, or else a cross between a magical serpent and a non-magical one.

I think this is a reasonable theory. We know Voldemort possessed snakes while in Albania - though he says they died fairly soon after he inhabited them. Therefore, I think it likely that he discovered Nagini in Albania, but did not possess her, being impressed by her strength or some other qualities.

I suppose it is also possible that she was one of the snakes that young Tom Riddle talked to on the field trips he went on with the orphanage. However, I think this less likely, since I do not think Tom Riddle would maintain that close of a connection with anything for that number of years. Therefore, I think it most likely that Nagini provided comfort or some other emotion in Voldemort when he was ruined in Albania.


So I get this, Voldemort brought the snakes into Albania then? I did know that he possesed them but where he got them is the question?


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  #120  
Old February 10th, 2010, 11:42 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
However, I like to regard Nagini as some magical variation of a snake.
I think that's a good bet. It makes sense that Voldemort wouldn't have taken such a liking to an ordinary snake, given the emphasis he placed on magic being special. Nagini must have caught his eye for being large and strong as well.


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