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Dumbledore's House



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  #41  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 8:15 pm
dmeagher101  Undisclosed.gif dmeagher101 is offline
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Should Dumbledore have been in Slytherin?

After reading DH and finding out about Dumbledore's past, it seems to me like he would have been a better fit for Slytherin and not Griffindoor. Here's why;

-According to his obituary by Elphias Doge, Dumbledore tried especially hard to prove himself at school. He ambitiously wanted to shake the stigma cast on him because of his father's crimes. It paid off, and he became known as the brightest student the school had ever known, and later the most powerful wizard in the world.

-He was throughly disappointed when his family duties inteferred with his ambition to travel around the world.

-He constantly refused to be Minister of Magic, believing that the power would corrupt him. But doesn't a courageous person confront their flaws in order to make themsevles a better person?

-Despite his commending Neville at the end of PS for "standing up to his friends." Dumbledore had trouble doing just that. He lacked the courage to stand up to his friend Grindelwald, and only fought him after heavy coercion from the wizarding community. His cowardice cost the lives of many wizards and muggles.

-In the fifth book, he avoids Harry, for fear that Voldemort could use the mental connection to spy on him. He's the most powerful wizard in the world! He could find a way to keep himself safe.

-Despite being the most powerful wizard in the world, he never stands up to Voldemort directly, leaving all the hard work to Harry. He started to suspect Voldemort had horcruxes at the end of book two, but it he never set out to destroy any of them, despite the fact that Voldemort was still weak and half-dead.

-He was so ambitious to see his family again that he touched the resurrection stone without thinking that there would be a curse. He shows no wisdom, humility or courage, only pure, unbridled ambition.

Because of his lack of courage and multiple shows of ambition, I believe Dumbledore is a better fit for Slytherin house, not Griffindoor. What do you think? Can you think of any examples that either support or go against this hypothesis?


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  #42  
Old January 3rd, 2012, 5:01 pm
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Re: Should Dumbledore have been in Slytherin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-According to his obituary by Elphias Doge, Dumbledore tried especially hard to prove himself at school. He ambitiously wanted to shake the stigma cast on him because of his father's crimes. It paid off, and he became known as the brightest student the school had ever known, and later the most powerful wizard in the world.
Ambition can be defined as a desire for power. Broadly speaking, I don't think I would label every desire or goal as Slytherin ambition. A Ravenclaw might desire knowledge, but then with a broad label that makes them a Slytherin sinply for having a goal. Hufflepuffs work hard to achieve there goals, but with a broad application of ambition their drive would be Slytherin. I think a narrower definition of ambition is needed.

I wouldn't call wanting to be judged by his own abilities or wanting to shake the stigma of his father's crimes as Slytheriny. I'm not sure the latter belongs to any House, and I would put earning a proof reputation as Hufflepuffy, if it needed a House designation. I would put being the brightest student as Ravenclawy. I would put down his ambition for power as Slytheriny, though, as I think that fits with what the Sorting Hat said about Slytherin.

Quote:
-He was throughly disappointed when his family duties inteferred with his ambition to travel around the world.
I see disappointment as a normal reaction under the circumstances, rather than something only a Slytherin would feel.

Quote:
-He constantly refused to be Minister of Magic, believing that the power would corrupt him. But doesn't a courageous person confront their flaws in order to make themsevles a better person?
Acquiring more power doesn't seem like a wise way to me to handle a power addiction. I'd say he was wise not to seek even more power than he had-- which was already quite a bit. I don't know that brave=incorruptible.

Quote:
-Despite his commending Neville at the end of PS for "standing up to his friends." Dumbledore had trouble doing just that. He lacked the courage to stand up to his friend Grindelwald, and only fought him after heavy coercion from the wizarding community. His cowardice cost the lives of many wizards and muggles.
Grindelwald wasn't his friend at that point. Grindelwald operated in a foreign theater. I don't think it was simply a matter of Dumbledore having the power to step in and stop Grindelwald any time he chose. I do think Dumbledore had trouble facing the part of his past that Grindelwald was involved in, due to the destruction of his family. He did eventually face Grindelwald, though, and the duel was said by eyewitnesses to be incredible; Dumbledore risked his own life taking out Grindelwald, a very powerful Dark Lord armed with the Elder Wand.

Quote:
-In the fifth book, he avoids Harry, for fear that Voldemort could use the mental connection to spy on him. He's the most powerful wizard in the world! He could find a way to keep himself safe.
I think it was bad judgment on Dumbledore's part that he didn't handle it in a different way, but I wouldn't call it cowardice. He was right about the dangers of the mental connection.

Quote:
-Despite being the most powerful wizard in the world, he never stands up to Voldemort directly, leaving all the hard work to Harry. He started to suspect Voldemort had horcruxes at the end of book two, but it he never set out to destroy any of them, despite the fact that Voldemort was still weak and half-dead.
Dumbledore is in contant opposition to the ideals of Voldemort and the Death Eaters, in my opinion, and I do think that he was trying to get information on the Horcruxes so they could be destroyed. I'm not sure what this one has to do with his schoolday House, though.

Quote:
-He was so ambitious to see his family again that he touched the resurrection stone without thinking that there would be a curse. He shows no wisdom, humility or courage, only pure, unbridled ambition.
Again, I wouldn't use "ambition" for a desire that doesn't bring power. Many people would desire to see lost loved ones again, and I do not see that as having to do with any House. I agree that Dumbledore forgets wisdom when he puts the ring on.

Quote:
Because of his lack of courage and multiple shows of ambition, I believe Dumbledore is a better fit for Slytherin house, not Griffindoor. What do you think? Can you think of any examples that either support or go against this hypothesis?
I think Dumbledore showed characteristics throughout his life that could have placed him in any of the Houses. But then we readers meet him almost a hundred years after his Sorting and graduation. I think most people are multi-dimensional, and are not limited to only the characteristics claimed by only one House, during their schooldays or throughout their life. Apparently Dumbledore was sorted into Gryffindor. A bit boring perhaps, at least in my opinion, but not unreasonable. I think he had to have a good deal of courage to face going off to school right after his father's trial, and that early courage may have tipped the Hat in Gryffindor's favor.


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  #43  
Old January 3rd, 2012, 5:38 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's House

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-Despite being the most powerful wizard in the world, he never stands up to Voldemort directly, leaving all the hard work to Harry. He started to suspect Voldemort had horcruxes at the end of book two, but it he never set out to destroy any of them, despite the fact that Voldemort was still weak and half-dead.
I suspect DD knew that Voldemort was experimenting with horcruxes early on--even before he attacked infant Harry--because he had the books dealing with horcruxes removed from the library when he became headmaster.

DD also knew that unless he had a firm understanding as to what Voldemort was doing, just confronting him and destroying his physical body would not completely defeat him.

DD destroyed one horcrux as soon as he found it. He is deathly ill from the curse, but uses the Sword of Gryffindor to destroy the horcrux before Severus arrives on scene to attend to his injury. I just think it took a long time for DD to gather the relevant memories that lead him to locating the horcruxes. I think he fully intended on destroying them himself and then taking out Voldemort, but the curse shortened his life and he set Severus and Harry up to complete the task.

The reason he didn't kill Voldemort at the end of OotP was because he knew it was Harry's only chance of surviving his own destruction as a horcrux. Unless LV himself "killed" Harry, Harry would not be able to return from the dead.

Now with all of DD's capacity for plans and machinations, it would seem Slytherin would have been a nature choice for him. But as DD himself says, "Perhaps we sort too soon."


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  #44  
Old January 3rd, 2012, 7:41 pm
Westyane  Female.gif Westyane is offline
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Re: Should Dumbledore have been in Slytherin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-He constantly refused to be Minister of Magic, believing that the power would corrupt him. But doesn't a courageous person confront their flaws in order to make themsevles a better person?
Dumbledore was not only a brave man, but a clever man as well. I assume he saw the risks that came with it as too large.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-Despite his commending Neville at the end of PS for "standing up to his friends." Dumbledore had trouble doing just that. He lacked the courage to stand up to his friend Grindelwald, and only fought him after heavy coercion from the wizarding community. His cowardice cost the lives of many wizards and muggles.
Maybe that's why he praised Neville for daring to do so. "Few dare to stand up for their friends". That makes Neville a brave boy, not necessarily makes Dumbledore a coward, as far as I can see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-In the fifth book, he avoids Harry, for fear that Voldemort could use the mental connection to spy on him. He's the most powerful wizard in the world! He could find a way to keep himself safe.
I agree that this was rather coward and a bit dumb of him to do. Still, it might be J.K. Rowling's way of giving the seemingly perfect, nicest headmaster some human flaws. We all do mistakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-Despite being the most powerful wizard in the world, he never stands up to Voldemort directly, leaving all the hard work to Harry. He started to suspect Voldemort had horcruxes at the end of book two, but it he never set out to destroy any of them, despite the fact that Voldemort was still weak and half-dead.
That is one good point, never thought of it... I was about to say "Maybe he was busy doing his job as a headmaster", but then I remembered what the twins said when they gave Harry the map. "Walking around in his office as always" - he can't have been doing much. Maybe he was thinking, trying to come up with a way to find out where these horcruxes were and what they were?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
-He was so ambitious to see his family again that he touched the resurrection stone without thinking that there would be a curse. He shows no wisdom, humility or courage, only pure, unbridled ambition.
That indeed is a dumb thing to do. Another human flaw, and a way for J.K. to make it all more logical, that's my guess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmeagher101 View Post
Because of his lack of courage and multiple shows of ambition, I believe Dumbledore is a better fit for Slytherin house, not Griffindoor. What do you think? Can you think of any examples that either support or go against this hypothesis?
He stepped in for Harry against the ministry, and ended up having the ministry in the school to keep an eye on them and ruining the order by "trying to create order".
He never stopped standing for the opinion that Voldemort was still a current, serious threat.
He stepped in for Professor Trelawney when she was about to be thrown out of the area, despite the fact that this would clearly only water the quickly flowering passion and obsession to "create order" that Umbridge had.

Dumbledore is a giant mix of all houses, in my opinion. He's there for his closer friends at many times, like a Hufflepuff. He has the mind of a Ravenclaw. He dares to step up to many in his attempt to create true order in the wizard world, like a Gryffindor. Still, he thought more of himself than his family and left a lot of work for Harry later on, for his own good, a bit like a Slytherin. He is the proof that there isn't just one side of a person and that everything is not what it seems.


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  #45  
Old January 4th, 2012, 7:14 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's House

IMO Dumbledore was probably a better fit for Ravenclaw or Slytherin.

Ravenclaw because he was intelligent and was intellectually curious about a lot of things. He seemed to learn a lot purely for the sake of learning. I'd bet that he knew as much about the muggle world as he did about the wizarding one.

Slytherin because he wanted glory as he mentions to Harry. I think that when he was in school, he had a personal ambition to outshine everybody. Not just at school level, but really make the world sit up and take notice. I suspect a part of this desire was involved when he made all those plans with Grindelwald. Do something that really changes the world.

For some reason, I have never thought of Dumbledore as being brave or courageous. For me, being courageous happens only if you had fear in the first place. I don't think Dumbledore was scared about anything at all (excluding obvious exceptions). He was way way above everyone else in both magical skill and intelligence that the feeling he most felt was probably frustration.


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  #46  
Old January 4th, 2012, 9:31 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's House

I don't think I ever really thought about which house Dumbledore would be in, I'm pretty sure I assumed he was in Gryffindor because that's where all the good guys were Thinking about it though, he doesn't seem to fit Gryffindor that well, or at least he fits the other houses more. He seems like he'd fit into Ravenclaw well, considering it's mentioned in DH that he won a lot of academic awards while at school (I think I've remembered that right, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) and he was taken with the Deathly Hallows and power as a teenager, so Slytherin is a possibility. However, in the GoF movie, it's implied that he was in Gryffindor because he says he set fire to the hangings on the beds, and I think JKR would have corrected the film makers if that was wrong. Of course, I haven't watched the film for a while, so it might be ambiguous enough to get away with it being Dumbledore saying that he hated having hangings on the beds in general.


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  #47  
Old January 5th, 2012, 1:52 am
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Re: Dumbledore's House

While Dumbledore has traits from all houses, ultimately I think it is his courage and righteousness that defined him thus Gryffindor fits him very well.. For all his flaws, he devoted his life to the eradication of the dark arts and died for the cause.


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  #48  
Old January 5th, 2012, 5:56 am
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Re: Dumbledore's House

Oh geez, when I read the title of this thread I thought it meant Dumbledore's house..like where he lives. Not with it today as it seems.

I think I always just assumed that Dumbledore was in Gryffindor. It just seemed to fit considering it always looked like he almost favored them above other houses when you look back at PS/SS. He shows traits of all four houses, IMO. Do you think Dumbledore might of had a hatstall?


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