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Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis



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  #21  
Old December 1st, 2007, 4:05 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?
Yes I think so. True that they were an aweful family to him, but Harry had no other family and he could have turned out worse as Dumbledore suspected had he been entrusted to a wizarding family.

No, I don't think he realized how neglected Harry would be. I am almost positive there is canon for this too. Something along the lines of Dumbledore saying that when Harry arrived at Hogwarts he was much thinner than he would have liked or thought...

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
I think he knew that Harry would need to grow in power and magic in order to face Voldemort someday. It was what a parent has to do with their children too. You have to give them freedom to make their own mistakes and grow. Also, by not stepping in Dumbledore allowed for the trio to grow closer and depend on one another which would be essential in the end.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?
I think either at the end of GoF or the beginning of OoTP, he would have been ready to hear it. I don't know, I kind of feel like he had time to progress already. Dumbledore thinks he made a mistake in withholding the truth, I don't know if I really see it that way.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?
I think that they made a wonderful team. When Harry is hot headed Dumbledore allows him to be so and then waits. Dumbledore's paitence helps Harry. I think this is one of the best quotes in the whole series and gets me every time:

The Cave, HBP
"I am not worried, Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you."


For so long Harry felt that way about Dumbledore, that he was safe and protected becasue he was with the greatest wizard of all time. Then here is Dumbledore expressing how safe he feels with Harry...be still my heart! I love love love this part and it was actually one of their lasts dialouges with each other until DH. I think that says a lot. For me it shows how much Dumbledore came to love and respect Harry, even after we see in DH what his original intentions were.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?
I don't think so. I have a hard time believing that Harry would have gotten as far as he did if he would have known the complete truth. But I don't know it is possible that he still would have...its hard to say.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?
Yes, I think so.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?
At times it seems like he is more focused on finding out the truth about Dumbledore than he is about finding the horcruxes. It seems to cloud his judgement and he starts to question the whole mission. He gets mad at Dumbledore for sending him in so "blindly" and as the reader I have to say that I was beginning to feel the same way. I was thankful for the King's Cross chapter that seemed to vindicate him again.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?
It wasn't really that Dumbledore asked too much, its that that was what was expected of Harry to do. As for telling him the whole truth, Dumbledore thought he was doing the right thing by putting his eggs in separate baskets. I think people willingly allowed him to do this and so it worked.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Of course! I think Harry naming his son after Dumbeldore shows that he forgave him for any faults and mistakes that DD may have made and ultimately saw him as a brave man.


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  #22  
Old December 2nd, 2007, 1:56 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

susan, I think that dumbledore spent years trying to work out the whole horcrux scenario, and he didn't even consider it until CoS when he started to suspect that the diary was a horcrux. So there might have been a small window of time that Dumbledore thought that Harry would certainly die, and the gleam of triumph in GoF, but certainly not a lot of time.


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 2:56 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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susan, I think that dumbledore spent years trying to work out the whole horcrux scenario, and he didn't even consider it until CoS when he started to suspect that the diary was a horcrux. So there might have been a small window of time that Dumbledore thought that Harry would certainly die, and the gleam of triumph in GoF, but certainly not a lot of time.
Well, that makes sense. But there was a comment about the scar in the first book. Minerva asked Dumbledore if he should get rid of it, and his response was that scars sometimes come in handy. Did he suspect that the scar might be more than just a scar back then?

Then there was that whole thing in OotP when Dumbledore was trying not to care too much for Harry. Something about countless people dying. Do you think Dumbledore tried to avoid caring too much for Harry?


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:07 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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Well, that makes sense. But there was a comment about the scar in the first book. Minerva asked Dumbledore if he should get rid of it, and his response was that scars sometimes come in handy. Did he suspect that the scar might be more than just a scar back then?
That was I think about the Harry/Voldemort connection that Dumbledore revealed to Harry in OotP via the prophecy - their mind sort of connection. Either that, or Dumbledore just sensed that there was something kind of not normal about the scar, he could sense magic, and he probably sensed something a little off.

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Then there was that whole thing in OotP when Dumbledore was trying not to care too much for Harry. Something about countless people dying. Do you think Dumbledore tried to avoid caring too much for Harry?
So, I just went back and reread the whole speech at the end of OotP, and I think that Dumbledore is trying to say that if he didn't love Harry so much as he did, he'd have told him earlier about the Harry/Voldemort mind connection and about the "neither can live while the other survives" bit of the prophecy. But because Dumbledore loved Harry so much and wanted to sheild him from the pain that would cause Harry, he waited too long.

Dumbledore could not tell Harry everything about the Harrycrux situation because that would have made it more likely that Harry would die when Voldemort AK'd him in DH, because he would not have gone in expecting to die. Or something like that - I find that whole thing a little confusing and I probably should reread DH again.


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:24 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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So, I just went back and reread the whole speech at the end of OotP, and I think that Dumbledore is trying to say that if he didn't love Harry so much as he did, he'd have told him earlier about the Harry/Voldemort mind connection and about the "neither can live while the other survives" bit of the prophecy. But because Dumbledore loved Harry so much and wanted to sheild him from the pain that would cause Harry, he waited too long.

Dumbledore could not tell Harry everything about the Harrycrux situation because that would have made it more likely that Harry would die when Voldemort AK'd him in DH, because he would not have gone in expecting to die. Or something like that - I find that whole thing a little confusing and I probably should reread DH again.
I know that when I first read OotP, I thought that this speech meant that Dumbledore did not want to tell Harry about the prophecy because he knew how devastating the news would be. Finding out that either you or Voldemort has to die is pretty big stuff. But the "plan" that Dumbledore talked about always bothered me. I always thought that there was more to it than that.

I thought that the gleam of triumph in GoF meant that Dumbledore knew at that point that Harry might not have to die after all. So if he thought that Harry had to die prior to the gleam, but thought there was hope he could make it without dying after the gleam, when did Dumbledore first suspect that Harry might be carrying a bit of Voldemort's soul?

I think that Dumbledore may have suspected that Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul as early as CoS. Harry first spoke parseltongue then. He spoke it without being aware of it. That would have made Dumbledore very suspicious, in my opinion, that there was more to the scar that just a mind connection.


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:34 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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I thought that the gleam of triumph in GoF meant that Dumbledore knew at that point that Harry might not have to die after all. So if he thought that Harry had to die prior to the gleam, but thought there was hope he could make it without dying after the gleam, when did Dumbledore first suspect that Harry might be carrying a bit of Voldemort's soul?
It would have to be some time between CoS and GoF, but I dont' think we'll ever know the exact time frame.
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I think that Dumbledore may have suspected that Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul as early as CoS. Harry first spoke parseltongue then. He spoke it without being aware of it. That would have made Dumbledore very suspicious, in my opinion, that there was more to the scar that just a mind connection.
Dumbledore gave very convincing explanations for all of this in OotP and HBP, and I definitely think they were true explanations, but there was that added layer of the Harrycrux that Dumbledore coudln't tell Harry.

Btw, at the end of OotP, when Dumbledore does his "I'm going to tell you everything" speech, my first reaction was PUHlease, there's no way we're going to be told 'everything' so early in the series .


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:57 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

I think that Dumbledore may have thought that Harry was a horcrux quite early on. It impacted their relationship in that Dumbledore may have tried to distance himself from Harry a bit, knowing that Harry would have to die. After the second blood-bond, Dumbledore may have figured it was safe to get a bit closer to Harry - except for the pesky lack of occlumancy skills on Harry's part. So, he enlisted Snape to try to close that hole - and thus enable the relationship to be like we saw in HBP, instead of the more distant Dumbledore of the previous books, where he observed instead of interacted.


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:57 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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Btw, at the end of OotP, when Dumbledore does his "I'm going to tell you everything" speech, my first reaction was PUHlease, there's no way we're going to be told 'everything' so early in the series .
I agree. Dumbledore probably meant that he was going to tell him everything he wanted him to know at that time.

Voldemort referred to Harry as Dumbledore's puppet. JK Rowling herself said that Harry was Dumbledore's puppet. I never got the impression that Harry felt like he was being controlled by Dumbledore.


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Old December 2nd, 2007, 3:59 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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I agree. Dumbledore probably meant that he was going to tell him everything he wanted him to know at that time.

Voldemort referred to Harry as Dumbledore's puppet. JK Rowling herself said that Harry was Dumbledore's puppet. I never got the impression that Harry felt like he was being controlled by Dumbledore.
I don't think Harry ever felt that way...except for the time period between Sirius' death and Harry's "rescue" from the Dursleys. He raged on at Dumbledore a bit, and he may have felt like a bit of a pawn then. But, after they started taking the lessons, he probably felt quite close to Dumbledore - he (Harry) was likely the only student to ever get that kind of lessons from Dumbledore (personalized, not about horcruxes, naturally )


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  #30  
Old December 3rd, 2007, 1:19 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

AHA! A forum that has actual discussion and debate on HP. They're to many that are.. amature? Bah, dunno the right word, but I am glad I found this one.

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?
I think he underestimated what kind of 'muggles' the Dursleys were, but either way, whether he knew it was the right thing or not the Dursleys home was the only safe place for Harry and Dumbledore knew that. Thats why he made Harry return there every summer, so the protectice charms on the house would, well protect him.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
Dumbledore never interacted with the students (much), and I think he especially didn't want to with Harry. He knew from the beginning, or had an idea that part of LV was a part of Harry, and therfor didn't want to bring that 'monster' out of him. Whats more, in DH Harry learned that Dumbledore had kept many secrets from him, for the reason that Dumbldore didn't want Harry making the same mistakes as he did. Although I think DD was refering to the Hallows mostly, he might have felt the same about 'leading' Harry while in school.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?
I agree with Dumbledore, that Harry wasn't ready. Had Harry learned early on that he was meant to defeat LV, he might have felt differently. I think that Dumbledore wanted Harry to.. hate LV more. To learn in great detail of all the horrible things LV had done, so that Harry could steadily feel the need, without the prophecy to finish him off. Even though Harry is slow to understand that had he not heard the Prophecy, he would have wanted to kill LV still.
Their relationship was... student/teacher. Atleast thats how Harry felt for the most part of the series. I'm not sure if their friendship would have grown, but the possibility of Harry being more prepared is probable.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?
Balancing qualities... well Dumbledore is wise, and experianced but Harry is eager to learn, and do. I think that is the best balancing characteristic between them.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?
I don't think so. Dumbledore was right in keeping the secret until the very end. IMO had Harry learned befor hand, that he had to sacrifice himself he may have tried to find another way. Had he learned way early on, around SS/CoS he might have even ran, because he may have been brave but even Harry at that age would have been a tad freaked out.
Keeping the secret of the Hallows.. maybe wasn't the best idea. Harry wasted alot of time after he found out about them, obsessing over them and getting sidetracked from finding the Horcruxes.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?
He did... not about the stone, but in one of their classes he tells him (and shows) Harry all about the ring. I'm not sure if I get the question though. He wouldn't have told Harry about the stone though. Dumbledore didn't want Harry to know about the Hallows, to keep Harry from making his own mistakes.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?
Distrust mostly. That for me, was the most emotional part of the book. Harry felt guilty for not having a better friendship with Dumbledore, felt alone because he had lost an adult figure, maybe even father figure. He was angry because Dumbledore didn't give him enough information, hurt also for the same thing. IMO Harry was more hurt by Dumbledores death than maybe even his own parents, because of every thing he lost along with DD.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?
Dumbledore only asked what he had to. I think he himself felt guilty for putting so much responsibility with Harry, and relying on so much on him. 'The truth' was told in perfect moderation. Harry learned enough information that he needed, and maybe sometimes not enough.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Probably. Dumbledore was Harrys best adult figure, IMO.


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  #31  
Old December 3rd, 2007, 6:42 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

as we now know, dumbledore had contact with petunia from a young age, and perhaps he thought that petunia would be happy to be in contact with the magical world once more.

it can also be argued that as horrendous as his childhood was, it was ultimately safer than being present in the wizarding world- the first contact, at 11, is when he can begin to defend himself. death eaters were still around post-voldemort.



Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

i think gof would have been the time to do it for the best outcome is. up until then, we don't really see quite how much voldemort wants harry over anyone else, aside from his being the boy who lived.


In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

harry is quite impulsive, falling into the pensieve in gof, for instance. dumbledore is the person who most makes harry think round a problem, and is one of the few adults who doesn't try and offer simple solutions- you see this at the end of each of their sessions in hbp, dumbledore making harry think about what he's seen and the possible meanings of such info.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

would harry have respected snape more? i can't see it. and would snape bear being seen as a pitiable figure by harry? again, i don't think he'd appreciate it.


Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

i think that when we see the other truth of the ring, it is clear why dumbledore doesn't tell harry- i.e that he has been rather foolish, and it also brings up questions of his earlier life. i don't think he would have told him until he'd recounted the tale of the hallows, as he clearly intends to do with the trio's gifts from the will.


In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

harry has never bothered to look beyond the elderly, if powerful incarnation of dumbledore, therefore the feelings of harry are confused by the idea of a non-omnipotent dumbledore. as harry is exceptional himself at his age, he cannot believe that dumbledore could have been so foolish at the same age. however, he comes to a peace with it i think when he realises that dumbledore has spent the rest of his life essentially repenting for his earlier sins.
I


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  #32  
Old December 3rd, 2007, 9:11 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by SusanBones111 View Post
I agree. Dumbledore probably meant that he was going to tell him everything he wanted him to know at that time.

Voldemort referred to Harry as Dumbledore's puppet. JK Rowling herself said that Harry was Dumbledore's puppet. I never got the impression that Harry felt like he was being controlled by Dumbledore.
I respect your interpretation, but the idea that Harry was Dumbledore's puppet matched perfectly with what I was thinking after reading DH. Dumbledore loved Harry yet for all of his love and chatter, he still planned to send him off to his death, only guessing that he might live. Harry had a right to know that and the manipulation is very much like a puppet master working the strings of his puppet, imo, independent of the love Dumbledore felt. Imo, Dumbledore did the same with others as well, we saw evidence of it with Snape, but many of those working for him likely were treated similarly.

Dumbledore loved Grindel too, and it took several years for him to bring his antics to a stop. Maybe Dumbledore is just a many years kinda guy - perhaps it took him many years to accept for himself what he knew Harry had to do. In any case, it was very wrongful of Dumbledore, imo, and he was very lucky it turned out well or he would have had to add Harry to the good number of deaths that were a consequence of his largely undisclosed plans.


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  #33  
Old December 3rd, 2007, 9:21 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

I think Dumbledore played it almost perfectly. With the exception of Gaunt's Ring forcing him to change his plans.

But he has faith in Harry, but has to make sure that all the chess pieces are in place before the final moves. By the time this comes round, we see how ready Harry is. He walks to his death with no fear, only love. Which is what Dumbledore's been trying to tell Harry for years.


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Old January 15th, 2008, 2:25 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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Here is something I am curious about. Dumbledore knew that Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul and eventually had to die in order to bring about Voldemort's defeat. Do you think that he was rather careless about Harry's fate, letting him try to save the philosopher's/sorceror's stone for instance, because he knew Harry was eventually going to have to die anyway? Did he allow Harry to be tormented by Umbridge because he knew Harry would need to be able to recognize true evil, not just the evil that comes with a Death Eater's mark?
I think he was pretty careless about Harry's life, mainly I think, because he knew Harry was safe until he was 17 years old and even if he was killed at Voldemort's hands, only the horcrux would die. He would not die at the hands of the others because Voldeort had already set the Prophecy rolling by marking him.

Quote:
Just a thought - it must have been rather hard for Dumbledore to know that Harry would have to die. It wasn't until the gleam of triumph, in my opinion, that there was a chance that Harry could make it through alive. I would think that Dumbledore would try to keep emotionally detached from Harry, so he wouldn't feel the sense of loss he felt when he lost other loved ones. But, I think Dumbledore found it hard to avoid forming an attachment to Harry.
DH-Ch-33-The Prince's Tale, pg 679, UD ed"Other teachers report that the boy is modest, likeble, and reasonably talented. Personally, I find him an engaging child."
"Engaging child" sounds like he is already starting to like Harry.
I think he liked him, but Dumbledore was a leader first and if he had to sacrifice Harry for the greater good he would have done so. In the Mahabharatha one of our 2 epics (written about 2500 years ago), the following rule occurs::

For the sake of a family one member can be sacrificed

For the sake of a village a family can be sacrificed

For the sake of the country a village can be sacrificed.

Dumbledore perhaps read this LOL, to my mind at least he came across as a perfect follower of this principle.

While Dumbledore would do all he could to save Harry from death if he could, but if winning the war was dependent on Harry dying IMO, I think Dumbledore would have sacrificed Harry. But having said that, I also think he would have sacrificed himself if the need arose and he would followed the rule with any other.

Quote:
Dumbledore talks a lot about the flaw in his plan in Order of the Phoenix.
OotP-Ch. 33, pg 838-839-US ed"Do you see, Harry? Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into the trap I had foreseen. that I had told myself I could avoid, that I must avoid."
"I don't -"
"I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act.
"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have - and I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined - not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed that I would have such a person on my hands.

So many things in this speech seem to carry a deeper meaning now that we know the whole story.
Same answer as above, I think with one thing to add.

Here I think the parallel is with Grindelwald, whom I think Dumbledore loved completely. He could not face the man he loved and he was loving even then until, his deeds could not longer be brushed under the carpet IMO. That was when, nearly 5 years or so later, Dumbledore fights with Grindelwald.

I think that's the same with Harry. He loves Harry as his very own child I think. So he kind of pushes the problem of Harry/horcrux/Voldemort/death eaters all under the carpet until after Sirius's death. And with Voldemort finally in the open, he could ignore it no longer IMO.


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  #35  
Old February 6th, 2008, 8:58 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think Dumbledore did the right thing. In the long run, staying with the Dursleys protected him from the greater risks out there. I don't think Dumbledore realised the extent to which Harry would be mistreated, but I think he knew that he may not be received well. He didn't expect the amount of mistreating to go on, but also didn't expect Harry to be like a son to the Durselys. Also to let Harry get to know himself and learn how powerful he really was he needed to do it alone. Imput from Dumbledore may have just stumped Harry.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

Dumbledore didn't tend to interact with students that much and observing generally tended to be his way. However, with Harry I think he was very much mystified and interested in him. He wanted to observe him, look for signs of evil. I think that before Harry came to Hogwarts Dumbledore suspected the bond between Harry and Voldemort and what it might be. He was still wary.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I think it would have been best to tell Harry at the end of GoF, at the latest. Voldemort had returned and Harry needed to know the dangers. I'm not sure when Harry would have been ready to hear it - I'm sure that deep down in an unconcious part of his mind, he knew that he and Voldemort would have to face each other. I think they would have grown closer much quicker because they would have been spending more time together.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Dumbledore is wise, the one with experience and the knowledge. Harry is the young wizard, eager to learn and eager to fight and acts on impulse. They both are brave, but different kinds of brave. I think they made a great team in HBP.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No. It was better that Harry was left in the dark. Sure, it was a bit of a risk and it might not have gone well, but it was the only way to ensure that Harry would go and get himself killed by Voldemort willingly.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

When first reading HBP I was so convinced that we would get the story in the end, but we didn't He did tell Harry the story, but only when Harry understood everything about the Hallows and Dumbledore's past. So really he kept that promise.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yes!! They would have been really close, I'm sure


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Old February 7th, 2008, 9:23 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think he did. I believe that it was very important that Harry grew up away from all of the fame and such. It kept him as normal as possible, allowing him to be a strong enough person to deal with all that Dumbledore knew he was going to have to deal with.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

I think that Dumbledore is a fairly good judge of character (obviously not always, but for the most part). I think he realized that Harry had to go through much of his journey on his own (or with just his closest friends), and therefore let him figure out all of these things out on his own. I think that by watching but not interacting he was essentailly grooming him for what was ahead. Especailly once he realized that he would have to go off to find the remaining Horcruxes

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Most definately. I think that their personalities worked very well together and that they had a deep respect for each other. They would have had a long-lasting relationship.


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  #37  
Old February 17th, 2008, 5:56 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?
Yes, he did the right thing. He knew Harry was safe there, and I think it was also good character building for Harry. I don't think Dumbledore knew the extent to which Harry would be mistreated, but I really don't think he'd have made a different decision had he known.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
I think that it was vital that Dumbledore let Harry make his own decisions without any influence from Dumbledore, at least at first. People comment about Dumbledore's 'anything for the greater good' attitude, but Harry showed within his first year at Hogwarts that he was perfectly willing to put himself at risk for the greater good. I think it was important for Dumbledore to see this in Harry, because it gave Dumbledore hope that Harry would be able to live up to the challenges that await him (including ultimately being willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good).

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?
I don't think there is really any appropriate time to hear that you're going to be a murderer or a victim of one, but I think it would have been better for him to hear it sooner rather than later. I think Dumbledore should have told Harry at the beginning of OOTP, at the latest. Once Voldemort had returned to power, Harry really needed to know the truth. I don't think it would have made that much difference in the relationship between Harry and Dumbledore.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?
As Harry learns in DH, there are many things Dumbledore neglected to tell him. It's hard to say whether this was due to lack of time, or because Dumbledore simply chose not to tell him. If Dumbledore had lived longer, I think there may have come a time where he felt he could no longer avoid answering Harry's questions about the ring, but he would have put it off as long as possible (as he did with telling Harry about the prophecy).

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?
In my opinion, Harry's doubts of Dumbledore were unfair. I've always been a believer in judging someone by how they treat you, not how they treat other people, because otherwise there are always things about the circumstance that you're unaware of. Harry always had incredible amount of respect for Dumbledore, and I don't think he should have doubted everything he knew about him based on things he was hearing from people he didn't even know. Dumbledore has a past, yes, but who doesn't? I'd like to meet one person who doesn't have regrets from their past that they'd rather not have brought up. In the end, Dumbledore was a good, kind, and courageous person, and in my opinion, that's all that matters.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?
In my opinion, Dumbledore should have told Harry more of the truth. Harry had complete trust in Dumbledore, and considering what Dumbledore was asking Harry to do, Harry deserved the same in return.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Yes, I think they would have.


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Old June 27th, 2008, 3:24 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I believe he did do the right thing. Inspite of the Dursley's, Harry was safe there from Voldemort. I don't think Dumbledore knew everything about how the Dursley's treated Harry but he knew they weren't the nicest people in the world.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

He didn't want to interfere with Harry's life as much as he has already. He wanted Harry to make his own decisions. He wanted Harry to build up his character. Plus he never really interacted with many students, as people have said before.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I think that he should have been told around the end of the Goblet of Fire. Any time before that would be too early to tell him. He wasn't ready at that time to hear it. In my opinion, it wouldn;t have change their relationship in anyway. Well maybe only one; Dumbldore probably would have interacted with Harry alot more in Order of the Phoenix.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yes they would have been great friends.


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Old June 28th, 2008, 11:04 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?
Yes, I do think he made the right decision by leaving Harry with the Dursleys. Living with Petunia was what could keep Harry safest. I do not think he knew the extent that Harry would be mistreated there. I think he probably assumed that the Dursleys were half-way decent people and they would treat him well, but not necessarily spoil him either. I think that Dumbledore later got hints when Harry was older that the Dursleys were not treating him well, most likely due to Mrs. Figg's presence. He certainly knew in HBP when he went to pick Harry up that the Dursleys hadn't treated him well. Mr. and Mrs. Weasley probably informed Dumbledore of some of the mistreatment they knew of as well after they heard that the Dursleys had locked him up in CoS.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
As Harry said in PS/SS, Dumbledore seemed to assist him from afar when needed because he wanted to give Harry a chance to figure things out for himself. Dumbledore is more of a hands-off mentor, letting Harry struggle, and I think this ultimately helps Harry in the end.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?
I don't think there ever was a good time for Harry to hear about the prophecy. There never really is any good time to give someone news like that, which is why Dumbledore held it off and held if off. Though Harry is very strong, so I think he would have been ready to hear it at age twelve or thirteen. I think at eleven it would have been too overwhelming, especially because Harry didn't even know about the Wizarding world up until that time. I think that their relationship probably would have progressed more if Harry had learned the truth earlier.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?
Well, I think that they both definitely were determined. Dumbledore was the teacher and the leader up until he drank the potion, and Harry was eager to learn from him and be of any assistance in destroying the horcruxes. I think the number one thing that made them a good team was their common goal to destroy the horcruxes.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?
No, I don't think so.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?
I do think he would have told Harry about the ring, but he wouldn't have told him about the stone and the truth about why he put the ring on in the first place. He was a private person and I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to reveal that, just as he lied about what he saw in the Mirror of Erised.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?
He wonders what Dumbledore's intentions were. He began to wonder whether Dumbledore cared about him at all, or whether he was just a pawn. This caused him to feel distrust and anger toward him. Harry wanted to know the truth, and he was mad that he could never get it.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?
Yes, I do. I don't think he was asking too much of Harry as far as the destroying Voldemort goes, but because Harry had to "die" to do so is what took it too far. Dumbledore knew that Harry was a strong person who would do anything to kill Voldemort, but I asking him to sacrifice himself was too much. I don't think he should have told him more of the truth, however, because I don't see how that could have worked.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Yes, I think Albus Potter is proof that Harry forgave Dumbledore and still looked up to him in the end. I definitely believe they would have been friends.


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Old June 30th, 2008, 4:23 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think Dumbledore did do the right thing by it. Had he chosen not to do so, Harry would have been a completely different person. Perhaps he would have been much more like his dad; arrogant, cocky, somewhat a bully. On top of that, he may not have got Lily's blood protection either and the wizarding world would be in complete disarray.

I don't think he knew the extent... I doubt even the Dursleys knew how much Harry would be mistreated. Take the whole family as individuals; not one person has any control over the other two's behaviour. Each of them added their own misery and maltreatment to Harry's early life and no other person had any control over the situation.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

I think it's because he didn't want to influence the situation any more than he did. In a way, I think he was testing Harry's character to speculate over it. Had he interacted with him, he wouldn't have got a definitive answer.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I think Harry may have been ready to hear it in his first year when he asked Dumbledore about it, but wouldn't have understood quite as well until his fifth year. But I do think Harry would have had a loss of innocence if he had been told that early. All the things he would have done in the years to come would have been because he had to do it, instead of wanting to do it. I think Harry may have resented Dumbledore at one point if he had been told earlier, but yeah, I think their relationship may have grown. It may have become a bi more intimate.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Dumbledore has the years of experience and so wisdom to know what to do, however, his experience is in the past. Harry has youthfulness in him and is more up-to-date with certain things and so he could relate things to the present. It reminds me of something Aslan said in the film Prince Caspian "nothing happens the same way twice." Dumbledore is also more strategic, i.e. the thinker, whereas Harry is the doer. I think in theory they make a good team, but in reality they would always be student/teacher. It has always been that way since the beginning.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No way. Too many things would have changed. Snape may not have killed Dumbledore, he may have fully turned Death Eater and not have stayed loyal to Dumbledore. It wouldn't have been in his character to 1. break ones trust and 2. not be so secretive. Dumbledore is all about supplying information when needed, but leave the rest as a test of character. Revealing Snape's secrets definitely isn't something Harry needed to hear from Dumbledore. It is most certainly something better conveyed from Snape to Harry.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

No, I don't think he would have told Harry about the stone. Harry needed to hear about it through an unbiased perspective. Mr. Lovegood was the perfect person to do so... no, the book was better. I think Dumbledore may have been very scared about the possibility that Harry would react to the use of this stone the same way he did. Harry may have gotten more obsessed about that ring and bringing his parents back than on the task at hand.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I agree with everyone else that Harry had lost faith in Dumbledore. He was no longer some kind of hero, he was definitely more of a human. Not some flawless idolised God or something. It was bound to happen since that was the case with his father as well. Dumbledore was the last of whom Harry had to realise that he could do wrong.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

No he didn't. Harry had had that burden since he was born, especially since the night his parents had died. I think the whole of Harry's journey had been a test of character and without that, Harry may have been a lot weaker of a person. Hats off to Dumbledore for allowing that.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

I think it would have been possible... only a little after Harry had become head auror. I get the picture that Dumbledore was more of a mentor than a friend. Harry's leadership skills surfaced after Dumbledore died. If he had lived, I don't think Harry would have been the same.


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