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How and when did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes?



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  #41  
Old December 24th, 2007, 4:40 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

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Originally Posted by SusanBones View Post
JK Rowling was talking about the smoke snake during Pottercast on The Leaky Cauldron website. I can't remember exactly what she said, though. But I think she said that Dumbledore used the smoke snake to confirm the fact that Voldemort had split his soul.
Interesting theory or since JkR is saying it ,FACT...
I thought that Riddle diary had a lot to do with Dumbledore's deduction...


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  #42  
Old December 24th, 2007, 7:38 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

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Originally Posted by vigneshnimbus View Post
Interesting theory or since JkR is saying it ,FACT...
I thought that Riddle diary had a lot to do with Dumbledore's deduction...
It did seem rather redundant to me. JK Rowling said that Dumbledore figured out that Voldemort had made more than one horcrux in CoS when he saw the diary. Then she said that Dumbledore used the smoke snake to confirm that Voldemort had indeed split his soul. So maybe the smoke snake was just a way to prove to himself that he right all along.


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  #43  
Old December 25th, 2007, 3:44 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

It seems to me, that in fact Dumbledore knew it from Slughorn. He persuaded Harry that Slughorn hadn't told him the truth about horcruxes. But Slughorn was on the 'good' side, he realised, that Voldemort should be defeated, and he desired it not less, than, say, McGonnagall or even Dumbledore. If he agreed to work with Dumbledore, he had to help him in any affairs. So I have doubt, that Slughorn could be so principal to refuse to tell Dumbledore about horcruxes just to look good and innocent. Moreover, I think, the choice of Slughorn as Potions teacher wasn't accident, it was necessary just to initiate Harry into story of horcruxes. And probably Dumbledore and Slughorn just played a performance in front of Harry. And it was necessary to let Harry know importance of horcruxes and to give him new skills. So, may be Slughorn said about Voldemort's interest in horcruxes just in the day Tom had asked him about them.


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  #44  
Old December 26th, 2007, 2:52 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Half_Blood26 View Post
Well...knowing Dumbledore, I would say he would have done his research into anything that Voldemort could use as an advantage or possible weapon, he happened upon Horcrux's and decided to look into it...aparently he was right...who knows...
Dumbledore comments to Harry about how closely watched Harry
was. in addition to the neighbor with the cats, given that
Dumbledore was quite able to walk around invisible, and
even spies on Harry in a friendly way when Harry is looking
at the Mirror of Areced, it makes sense that he would spend
some time monitoring Riddle.

Dumbledore knew that Riddle was extremely gifted, and
anti-social. if i was a headmaster with invisibility skills,
i'd be keeping an eye on a student like that. especially
after the first Heir of Slytherin incident that Hagrid got
blamed for.


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  #45  
Old December 27th, 2007, 3:43 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

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Originally Posted by thewbacca View Post
Then why didn't it hurt in the ROR, when he was holding the Diadem. Or when he was in the forest, pretty damn close to him. Proximity would also matter.
Good point. It should have. It also may have hurt, but was superfluous to the story line, and just not mentioned. I would have thought the Diadem esp during Half-Blood Prince when he hides his potions book, but he may have been too distracted to have noticed or dwelt on it.

However, Harry was able to wear the locket without feeling constant pain. Perhaps the bits of soul just wanted to rejoin their 'master' soul - so the scar-crux wouldn't have wanted to get into one of the horcruxes, only back to Voldemort's last bit of soul kept in Voldie's body. This doesn't help explain the forest, but in that case, maybe the bit of soul knew it was about to be released from Harry's body and was ready for it, and not paining him because of that.


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  #46  
Old December 27th, 2007, 7:55 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

Dumbledore likely suspected Voldemort had made a horcrux since Godric's Hollow when he "died" yet left no body. At the end of Chamber, he had received his proof with the diary. It also all but convinced him that Voldemort had made multiple horcruxes due to the diary's dual purpose of opening the chamber, which left it open to the possibility of it being destroyed should it fall into the wrong hands. As obsessed as Voldemort was with beating death, he wouldn't have done this sort of thing with a horcrux unless he had others to fall back on. Voldemort's comment in the graveyard merely confirmed what Dumbledore already knew. By that point, he was pretty sure that Harry was one as well, mentioning at the end of Chamber about Voldemort's inadvertent power transfer. The gleam of triumph at the end of Goblet also supports this.


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  #47  
Old December 27th, 2007, 11:03 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

O.k., Harrycrux problem - Why weren´t the people who were emotionally close top Harry (his two best friends, his girlfriend, Dumbledore, Hagrid, etc) get possesed by the bit of soul in Harry?


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  #48  
Old December 27th, 2007, 1:51 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

Here is the part of the Pottercast part 1 - where JK Rowling explains how Harry is not really a horcrux:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottercast-Dec 2007
MA:After we got back from Carnegie Hall, we brought back your message of "Harry is kind of not really a Horcrux." (SU: Oh, yeah.) And I don't want to dwell too long on Horcruxes, but I'd love to hear you talking about how he is or isn't, or wasn't.

JKR: Well, I'll tell you- do you know what? This will not end the discussion. (MA:Yeah.) (laughs) I know that, and you know that, but here is the thing: for convenience, I had Dumbledore say to Harry, "You were the Horcrux he never meant to make," but I think, by definition, a Horcrux has to be made intentionally. So because Voldemort never went through the grotesque process that I imagine creates a Horcrux with Harry, (SU: Mm-hm.) it was just that he had destabilized his soul so much that it split when he was hit by the backfiring curse. And so this part of it flies off, and attaches to the only living thing in the room. A part of it flees in the very-close-to-death limbo state that Voldemort then goes on and exists in. I suppose it's very close to being a Horcrux, but Harry did not become an evil object. He didn't have curses upon him that the other Horcruxes had. He himself was not contaminated by carrying this bit of parasitic soul. The only time he ever felt it stirring and moving was in Order of the Phoenix, when he himself goes through a very dark time. And there's a moment where he's looking at Dumbledore, and he feels something rear like a snake inside him, and of course, at those times, it's because the piece of soul inside him is feeding off his emotions. He's going through a dark time, and that piece of soul is enjoying it, and making its presence felt, but he doesn't know what he's feeling, of course. Also, I always imagine that the Sorting Hat detected the presence of that piece of soul (JN: Yeah!) when Harry first tried it on, because it's strongly tempted to put him in Slytherin. So that's how I see it. (JN: Wow.) Now, I know that won't end the debate, but I do think that the strict definition of "Horcrux," once I write the Scottish Book, will have to be given, (SU: Yeah.) (JN: Yes.) and that the definition will be that a receptacle is prepared by Dark Magic to become the receptacle of a fragmented piece of soul, and that that piece of soul was deliberately detached from the master soul to act as a future safeguard, or anchor, to life, and a safeguard against death. So that doesn't really clear anything up. Well, I think it- (JN: It does quite a bit.) It at least states what I believe,(MA laughs) but I don't think it's necessarily going to convince people who have a strong feeling one way or the other on the matter. You know what? That's been the case with most of Harry Potter. (JN laughs) I give my explanation, and it just fuels more debate.
So the bit of soul in Harry did not act like the bits of soul in a horcrux. That is why it never affected anyone around Harry.

Here is the transcript: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/20...ling-interview


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  #49  
Old April 16th, 2008, 7:36 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

I wonder if, given Dumbledores' extensive knowledge of magic, maybe he recognised the physical change in Voldemort as possibly the effects of a Horcrux. We know he suspected it before CoS, had it confirmed for him when he saw the Diary, but this carelessness led him to suspect multiple horcruxes.


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  #50  
Old April 16th, 2008, 8:11 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

It could have been but as many people have suggested I think he had his suspicions from the diary and how Ginny acted with it. DD was very exstensive in his knowledge of magic. Mcgonagall mentioned in PS that he has a knowledge of the Dark Arts but is too noble to use them or as we know now he was too afraid of what might happen if he did. He could have learned abour Horcruxes when he was with Grindlewald


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  #51  
Old April 16th, 2008, 9:58 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

I would bet that Dumbledore knew about the possibility of horcruxes Voldemort made before even leaving school. Dumbledore knew that Tom Riddle had evil tendencies, and that left unchecked could push him down the road he himself almost went down. The reason I believe he knew about them before Tom Riddle even finished school is because I'm sure that Dumbledore had a suspicion that Riddle had been looking through a lot of the dark magic books in the restricted section. This is one reason why Dumbledore wanted Dippet to take the books out of circulation and finally did when he became headmaster.


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  #52  
Old May 13th, 2008, 4:32 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

I think it took him a long time to confirm the fact that Voldermort had made a horcrux, but he may have been suspicious for a long time. It took him a while to understand that Voldermort had made more than one, he needed to have Slughorn's information to confirm that. The death of the diary confirmed that there was at least one horcrux, but Dumbledore may have been trying to figure out why Voldermort was still around after the diary was destroyed, he may have expected Voldermort to be finished then. When he wasn't, Dumbledore had to figure out if it was due to more horcruxes, or was there something else Voldermort had found or developed to save himself.


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  #53  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 7:42 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

Little by little D was able to piece together his idea about V's horcruxes. The diary, the event at the cemetery, and V's past were the most illustrious clues.


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  #54  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 11:47 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

Here is what I think

I think since Tom Riddle got to school and DD decided to keep an eye on him .He must had obviusly learned at some moment that Riddle had been investigating in the restricted section reseaching information.I suppose he must have had a hunch on the topic because years later he removed the books containing information on how to make a horcrux,to me this hints that he suspected something and decided to remove such books from the library as to avoid further investigation on the topic from part of any other student.

Then ,I suppose that the night Voldmort was hit with the AK and did not fully die arrouse suspicion and almost confirmed that Voldemort had taken some precautions in securing his soul to life.Then ,when years later,Harry´s scar hurt,I suppose DD started really worrying about how further had Voldemort done about horcurxes and how many had he created.

Then when the diary I suppose DD really had proof and started researching and finding proof and memories to study Riddle´s past.


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  #55  
Old June 4th, 2008, 9:30 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

He had to put the puzzle together, piece by piece.

1. Voldemort survived an Avada Kedavra blow when the curse rebounded off baby Harry
2. Voldemort was the type of person who wanted power
3. He had gone physical transformations shortly after leaving Hogwarts, so he obviously was experimenting with dark magic
4. The odd behavior of the Riddle "memory" that came out of the diary (in CoS)
5. Voldemort said that he had pushed the limits of magic further than anyone before (in GoF)
6. Harry was so easily connected to Voldemort's mind (in OotP)
7. The two smoke snakes (OotP)
8. The ring (HBP)
9. Slughorn's memory was confirmation of the multiple horcruxes (HBP)

Those are all the major clues that we know of that I can think of.


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  #56  
Old June 4th, 2008, 10:41 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

ok first off what are the smoke snakes. And yes true i'm sure that after Voldemort came back a changed man asking for the DATD position that DD knew he was up to something. When he had started searching for stuff while a sutdnet at H is unknown and DD figured he wanted the job so that he could find more things or objects to use for his HC's.

he says loads of times that he has fore gone the limits of magic. and seeing as he didn't die when his body was killed by AK that would have said or signaled something was amiss.

And in OOTP All the connection has to do is with the scar and i could and do believe that the snake and reactions have to do with the piece of soul. But i think mainly that the connection... well forget it it would not have been there if it weren't for the peice of soul.

Dumbledore isn't an idiot everyone knows that, so did V. He knew something was up, and knew he couldn't hide it from DD. He just knew that DD wasn't sure what he was up to yet. by the time he had left school you could say that DD was closer to unraveling the riddle that Tom Riddle had left.


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  #57  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:09 am
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

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Originally Posted by JamesPotter17 View Post
ok first off what are the smoke snakes.
The smoke snakes are from OotP. When Harry went to Dumbledore to tell him of his vision of Mr. Weasley getting attacked by Nagini, Dumbledore used one of the small magical objects that he had on his desk after he gave his orders to the portraits of the dead Headmasters/mistresses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OotP
The instrument tinkled to life at once with rhythmic clicking noises. Tiny puffs of pale green smoke issued from the minuscule silver tube at the top. Dumbledore watched the smoke closely, his brow furrowed, and after a few seconds, the tiny puffs became a steady stream of smoke that thickened and coiled in the air.... A serpent's head grew out of the end of it, opening its mouth wide....

'Naturally, naturally,' murmured Dumbledore apparently to himself, still observing the stream of smoke without the slightest sign of surprise. 'But in essense divided?'

.... The smoke serpent split itself instantly into two snakes, both coiling and undulating in the dark air.
JK Rowling later said that Dumbledore was confirming Voldemort had split his soul at least once, if I remember correctly.


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  #58  
Old June 9th, 2008, 2:23 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

that seems the most likely theory
thanx for making it clear as i was unsure for a while now how dumbledore found out


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  #59  
Old June 9th, 2008, 4:30 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

"I guessed fifteen years ago," said Dumbledore, "when I saw the scar upon your forehead, what it might mean. I guessed that it might be the sign of a connection forged between you and Voldemort....it became apparent, shortly after you rejoined the magical world, that I was correct..." (OOP CH.37)

I think that DD also guessed the connection was due to LV making Harry an unintentional horcrux. He knew that LV was not dead, he knew he would come back (he told Snape this when he asked him to help protect Harry). DD also knew that Lily had sacrificed herself, and this is why Harry was placed with his Aunt Petunia (she shared Liliy's blood, giving Harry protection.) DD knew LV had AK'd Harry and the curse had backfired. If DD was sure LV would be back, then he must have already known LV had made at least one horcrux before the night at Godric's Hollow. How else was LV able to rise again?

If DD is better at legilimency than LV is at occlumency then he may have discovered LV was making a horcrux as early as 1957. There are 4 instances during their meeting where LV loses control of his emotions, possibly allowing DD to successfully use legilimency. (HBP CH. 20)

1. LV's eyes burn red...he admits to pushing magical boundaries. (What magical boundaries would LV be interested in pushing?! Death?)

2. LV's look of rage...he claims love is not as powerful as "his magic". (Dark Arts!)

3. LV"s eyes flash red....he says his friends (DE's) will carry on without him.

4. LV's features thick with rage....he does not anwers DD's question about the "real reason" for his visit. If DD successfully tapped into LV's mind then he may have learned about the horcruxes.

After this meeting DD would have begun sifting through LV's past. Even without legilimency DD knew LV was experimenting with dark magic, gathering followers, and a threat to Hogwarts (the curse on the DADA position would soon become apparent). Also, LV's altered appearance would have been alarming -"burned, blurred, waxy, and oddly distorted" features.

When LV came to Hogwarts requesting a teaching position, DD had just become headmaster (and removed all books mentioning the horcrux from the library). DD was already keeping tabs on LV but I don't believe he knew about the horcruxes yet. If he had already gotten Morfin's memory prior to his meeting with LV then wouldn't he have alerted officials at the Ministry that LV would be at Hogwarts so they could arrest him for the Riddle murders? Maybe there was not enough evidence. Even so, I don't believe that DD got Morfin's memory until after LV visited Hogwarts. However, I don't think that DD began his search as late as the discovery of the diary because he says Bob Ogden died "some time ago" and concerning the location of the locket, "I have been looking for a very long time". Four years does not seem to be a "very long time". If DD began his search after the discovery of the diary that would mean Morfin lived in Azkaban for over 45 years.

So, I think DD suspected (or knew) LV had made a horcrux as early as 1957. He knew LV had made at least one horcrux after Godric's Hollow. And he was positive of multiple horcruxes after the discovery of the diary.

Perhaps DD acquired the Pensieve after LV's visit to Hogwarts.


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  #60  
Old June 9th, 2008, 4:37 pm
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Re: How did Dumbledore find out about Voldemort's horcruxes

this is interesting you have given alot of views.
But i guess we wont find out what really happened and can only be guess work, but still a very conving theory on events


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