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Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis



 
 
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  #61  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:16 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
As the previous reader said, they did go through the RoR, there was no plan after that so the Slytherin's never actually ran or something.
The Slytherins, especially the 6th and 7th years should have been able to Apparate out of Hogs Head, I can't imagine all of the little 1st year Slytherins going to fight with Voldemort, although someone did.
DH; Pg. 641"If your son is dead, Lucius, it is not my fault. He did not come and join me , like the rest of the Slytherins. Perhaps he has decided to befriend Harry Potter?"
Also the Slytherin prefects should have been able direct the rest of the Slytherins where to go or what to do.

Quote:
And on the other point, they looked toward the Slytherin table because Pansy happened to be sitting. And even if the Gryffindors were intending to fight the Slytherins... That still doesn't prove that the rest off the Slytherins were intending to attack Harry. There was no mention of them standing or anything. Rell's point exactly.
Correct, there is no mention of them standing, none of them were going to stop Pansy from getting Harry either. Only the other three Houses stood up to stop her. If it had come down to it, what do you think the Slytherins would have done? Stopped Pansy? Or helped her?


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  #62  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:19 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

We dunno, McGonagall said it was time for the Slytherin's to decide where their loyalties lie... And then based on the sole decision of Pansy she send them on their way.


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  #63  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:29 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
We dunno, McGonagall said it was time for the Slytherin's to decide where their loyalties lie... And then based on the sole decision of Pansy she send them on their way.
Do you not think that they did decide? By not standing up to Pansy, they were standing behind her. The school saw that they were united with Harry, and with Pansy standing up and shrieking and the Slytherins doing nothing, then they showed exactly where their loyalties lie, especially since some of them went to join Voldemort after.


  #64  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:31 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Because Pansy might just make it through the first ~210 students? i think they have the right to remain neutral, having their parents in the Death Eater ranks and all.


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  #65  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:40 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
Because Pansy might just make it through the first ~210 students? i think they have the right to remain neutral, having their parents in the Death Eater ranks and all.
They had the right to remain neutral sure, but they wouldn't have. Like you said their parents were Death Eaters, they wouldn't have remained neutral if the Death Eaters had entered the school. What do you think would happen? Would the Slytherins run away from them? When Draco was still in the school and the Death Eaters came in he acted as the Slytherins would "I am on your side. It's me Draco Malfoy." Slytherins would yell "I am a Slytherin, I am on your side."


  #66  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:49 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lord_Godric View Post
Do you not think that they did decide? By not standing up to Pansy, they were standing behind her. The school saw that they were united with Harry, and with Pansy standing up and shrieking and the Slytherins doing nothing, then they showed exactly where their loyalties lie, especially since some of them went to join Voldemort after.
So basically what you're doing is what all the other students in that room did in DH then, you base a whole house allegiance on a few persons actions. Then I might as well judge Gryffindor on the behaviour of Peter Pettigrew and show how very evil the house of Gryffindor truly is. Just making a point here. The reaction of the other houses is just another proof of the extreme prejudice that exist towards Slytherin.


  #67  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:54 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
i think they have the right to remain neutral, having their parents in the Death Eater ranks and all.
If they wanted to remain neutral, I'm sure that leaving would have been best anyway.

I have a feeling that most slytherin's made their allegiance quite well known during the year by their support of Snape (who they thought was a Death Eater) and the Carrows. Pansy's remark just confirmed this.


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  #68  
Old August 1st, 2007, 9:55 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lord_Godric View Post
They had the right to remain neutral sure, but they wouldn't have. Like you said their parents were Death Eaters, they wouldn't have remained neutral if the Death Eaters had entered the school. What do you think would happen? Would the Slytherins run away from them? When Draco was still in the school and the Death Eaters came in he acted as the Slytherins would "I am on your side. It's me Draco Malfoy." Slytherins would yell "I am a Slytherin, I am on your side."
You're assuming now.

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Originally Posted by Rell View Post
If they wanted to remain neutral, I'm sure that leaving would have been best anyway.

I have a feeling that most slytherin's made their allegiance quite well known during the year by their support of Snape (who they thought was a Death Eater) and the Carrows. Pansy's remark just confirmed this.
When was it stated that they supported the Carrows?


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  #69  
Old August 1st, 2007, 10:17 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
When was it stated that they supported the Carrows?
DH; Am. Ed. The Lost Diadem; Pp. 573-574"Amycus, the bloke, he teaches what used to be Defense Against the Dark Arts, except now it's just the Dark Arts. We're supposed to practice the Cruciatus Curse on people who've earned detentions-"
"What?"
Harry, Ron, and Hermione's united voices echoed up and down the passage.
"Yeah," said Neville. "That's how I got his one," he pointed at a particularly deep gash in his cheek. "I refused to do it. Some people are into it though; Crabbe and Goyle love it. First time they've been top in anything, I expect."
Who else would these some people be besides the Slytherins? Crabbe and Goyle were just an example of the people who love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
You're assuming now.
No, I was asking, what would the Slytherins do if they didn't leave the castle and the Death Eaters stormed it? Sit in the Great Hall and do nothing? Fight with the Death Eaters? Fight against the Death Eaters? What would they have done?


  #70  
Old August 1st, 2007, 10:47 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lord_Godric View Post
Who else would these some people be besides the Slytherins? Crabbe and Goyle were just an example of the people who love it.
I agree
Besides, even if a few of the Slytherins would have fought for Hogwarts, I agree with McGonagal that that's not a chance they could take. They were in the middle of a battle - they couldn't chance that a Slytherin student would defect in the middle.


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  #71  
Old August 2nd, 2007, 9:17 am
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Thet could lock them up in their common room. seriously, putting them in different part of the castle is far safer dicision then sending them Hogsmeade.


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  #72  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 6:50 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
Thet could lock them up in their common room. seriously, putting them in different part of the castle is far safer dicision then sending them Hogsmeade.
Putting them inside a castle that is crumbling, being attacked by the Ministry of Magic, and under threat from the Dark Lord, wouldn't quite be what the Slytherins would want. They would not stand by in the midst of a battle, they would take sides, or run for it, and they picked a side. Voldemort confirmed it.


  #73  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:10 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Voldemort would never completely destroy Hogwarts. Harry knows this. But alright I take that back. My main point is, McGonagall said that it is time for the Slytherin's to choose on their alligaince: She didn't give them time.


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  #74  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:19 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

I would like to point out that the source we're using to judge whether or not the Slytherin's fought on either side is VOLDEMORT: The man has been known to stretch the truth. Personally, I think his quote could just as easily have been used just to be sadistic to Lucius. I perfer to take Phineas' account, and let's not forget regardless of Dumbledore's opinion Snape was sorted into Slytherin. Without him, there is no way Harry could have won. Some people may hate Slytherin, but the qualities they have are those that are needed in a time of war.


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  #75  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:30 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
Voldemort would never completely destroy Hogwarts. Harry knows this. But alright I take that back. My main point is, McGonagall said that it is time for the Slytherin's to choose on their alligaince: She didn't give them time.
If the Slytherins would have stood up against Pansy, not all of them, but most of them, if they would have told Pansy to sit down, if they would have stopped her in any way, then there would be no doubt as to where their loyalties lie. However, they sat there, and did nothing as the other three Houses of the school united for a common cause. It was evident then to the rest of the school, and to McGonagall where their loyalties lie, and they had to leave, because a Hogwarts divided amongst itself would never stand up to Voldemort.



Last edited by Lord Godric; August 3rd, 2007 at 8:37 pm.
  #76  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:30 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Oh no, don't get me wrong! The Slytherins did join Voldemort. I'm sure JKR didn't mention if it wasn't true. But they were forced to leave castle, they didn't bolt and run: They followed orders until these orders ran out and they were left in Dementorville and they weren't about to fight the Gryffindors to our knowledge.

That was too BackSerpent's post. I'm afriad we're just gona have too agree to disagree on the matter, Godric.


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  #77  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:32 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by guad View Post
I agree with the others being disappointed by the Slytherin actuation in DH.
Room of Requirement: Nobody there. Meaning that nobody has fought against Voldemorts system.
Final battle: They all leave. Does this mean that they are all DE kids? That all agree with Voldemorts regime? That they are all cowards?
It's a bit sad that we get that message by JKR given that allthrough the books we had the big Unity message.
And besides, it's not realistic. I do not think that all Slytherins are pureblood supremacists and Voldemort followers. I'm sure we can find some brave, cunning, smart Slytherin students who actually disagree with Voldemort. Sadly in the last book, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Slytherins who help: Andromeda Black-Tonks. Unfortunately we never get explicitly told that she is a Slytherin, and a random reader might not spot it.

Slughorn: Reluctantly. He has to be told off by McGonnagal.

Snape: He has his own reasons for helping, which are not house character related, so that doesn't really count in the Slytherin connection.

Narcissa: Similar to Snape, she helps Harry because she wants to see her son. (it is a bit Slytherin to do things for own goals though).

Regulus: Too a Slytherin, who switched sides. Probably the best one.

Phineas: Yes he helps too.

So it's sad that the best Slytherins are actually either corpses in a cave or dead headmasters in a portrait.


Edit: I also feel that a rushed message in the epilogue (by Harry to Albus, that all houses are great) is actually not enough to change that bad feeling one gets from Slytherin in Hogwarts.
I tottaly agree with your point of view. I can't believe that a school with houses that hilight different qualities, but none of them bad, can have a house with only students that have bad instentions. I didn't like at all. Not that I'm a big fan of that house, for me the best one that suit me more is Ravenclaw, but in DH there was no balance. Probably there were students in other houses that defended the pure blood supremacy too, and students in Slytherin that wished to fight against Voldemort. I missed some balance.


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  #78  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:33 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

That was too BackSerpent's post. I'm afraid we're just gona have too agree to disagree on the matter, Godric.


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  #79  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:34 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by BlackSerpent7 View Post
I would like to point out that the source we're using to judge whether or not the Slytherin's fought on either side is VOLDEMORT: The man has been known to stretch the truth. Personally, I think his quote could just as easily have been used just to be sadistic to Lucius. I perfer to take Phineas' account, and let's not forget regardless of Dumbledore's opinion Snape was sorted into Slytherin. Without him, there is no way Harry could have won. Some people may hate Slytherin, but the qualities they have are those that are needed in a time of war.
I don't think Voldemort stretched the truth a lot, but if he did, it was still a fact that Slytherins had come to join him, whether they were there for fighting or for protection we do not know. Also I do not think that was the sadistic remark to Lucius the sadistic remark part was "perhaps he has befriend Harry Potter." Lucius was worried about his son, he didn't care what the rest of the Slytherins did.

And I agree, the qualities of Slytherins may be good in fighting a war, but why did only one Slytherin stand up and use his skills for the good of the Wizarding Kind?

Also like I have said before, this is a book, and it is the final book in the series, if Voldemort was lying about Slytherins coming to join him we would have a contradiction somewhere else, because no contradiction can come in later books, and no such contradiction was evident.


  #80  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:56 pm
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Re: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl View Post
Oh no, don't get me wrong! The Slytherins did join Voldemort. I'm sure JKR didn't mention if it wasn't true. But they were forced to leave castle, they didn't bolt and run: They followed orders until these orders ran out and they were left in Dementorville and they weren't about to fight the Gryffindors to our knowledge.
I don't know about forced.Like someone said,their silence did say alot.To be fair though you can't condem them for not staying.Not all the seniors of the other houses stayed either.The problem is they went to fight with Voldemort(to the best of our knowledge)
Even though Rowling said that all Slytherins aren't bad it seems the last book leaves us with no other conclusion really.


 
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