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Little Questions Answered v.20



 
 
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  #1441  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 1:20 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
Slughorn was probably unaware that Riddle did not know about horcruxes since that is how Tom approached him-Harry even makes note of that.

So why is Slughorn ashamed?
Like I said, likely because of the fact that Tom had Slughorn eating out of the palm of his hand, and that Slughorn was unable to recognize danger signs which were right in front of him. Think about the way that he modified the dream- it wasn't just to show himself denying Tom the information which he gave him, but to show himself rebuffing Tom and predicting his eventual turn to evil. Likely it was what he put in the dream that he regretted not doing.

This may not seem all that rational, especially considering that Tom had just about the entire Hogwarts staff eating out of the palm of his hand, but guilt is often not a rational emotion.

If his feeling of shame was down to Regulus, I don't think that there would be any reason for the Sluggish memory to be suppressed. That memory had nothing to do with Regulus.

It is more likely, to me, that Regulus got his info on Horcruxes from the same or a similar source that Tom did, originally.


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Last edited by willfitz; August 23rd, 2012 at 1:26 am.
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  #1442  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 1:57 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

So basically...Harry spent the year getting cozy with Slughorn for nothing? That memory didn't give them anything they didn't already know/suspect.


  #1443  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 2:04 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
So basically...Harry spent the year getting cozy with Slughorn for nothing? That memory didn't give them anything they didn't already know/suspect.
Well, Dumbledore wanted confirmation of the fact that Tom had an interest in multiple Horcruxes, and he also used the memory to find the number of Horcruxes involved. As hard as it was for Harry to try to take down Voldemort given only the overall objective (hunt and destroy Horcruxes), it would have been even harder if the number of Horcruxes was itself a mystery.


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  #1444  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 2:39 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

They're lucky that in the intervening period, Voldemort didn't change his mind and decide to make 8 Horcruxs or something.


  #1445  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 4:26 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Marvollo's ring, Salazar's locket, Tom's diary, Helga's cup, Rowena's diadem, Nagini, Harry, and the piece that went floating off after his original demise trying to kill Harry. Now, I know that's not 8 horcruxes, but it is 8 pieces...


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  #1446  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 4:35 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by captain_mills View Post
Marvollo's ring, Salazar's locket, Tom's diary, Helga's cup, Rowena's diadem, Nagini, Harry, and the piece that went floating off after his original demise trying to kill Harry. Now, I know that's not 8 horcruxes, but it is 8 pieces...
Right, which, given the Harrycrux was unintentional and unknown to Voldemort, confirms that Voldemort intended for 7 pieces (six Horcruxes).


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  #1447  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 5:47 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

I know what you're getting at, but I'm just saying that it's lucky for Harry that Voldemort didn't change his mind and decide to split his soul into more than the number he mentioned to Slughorn (he did that unintentionally anyways, thanks to Harry) which would make the Horcrux hunt even harder.


  #1448  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 3:40 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Like I said, likely because of the fact that Tom had Slughorn eating out of the palm of his hand, and that Slughorn was unable to recognize danger signs which were right in front of him. Think about the way that he modified the dream- it wasn't just to show himself denying Tom the information which he gave him, but to show himself rebuffing Tom and predicting his eventual turn to evil. Likely it was what he put in the dream that he regretted not doing.
Very possible. And there could be multiple reasons for his behavior.

Quote:
This may not seem all that rational, especially considering that Tom had just about the entire Hogwarts staff eating out of the palm of his hand, but guilt is often not a rational emotion.
But I think it would be rationally consistent with how JKR built this particular character.

Dug up a quote:
HBP: After the Burial“But then . . . my dear boy . . . you’re asking a great deal . . . you’re asking me, in fact, to aid you in your attempt to destroy —”

“You don’t want to get rid of the wizard who killed Lily Evans?”

“Harry, Harry, of course I do, but —”

“You’re scared he’ll find out you helped me?”

Slughorn said nothing; he looked terrified.

“Be brave like my mother, Professor. . . .”

Slughorn raised a pudgy hand and pressed his shaking fingers to his mouth; he looked for a moment like an enormously overgrown baby.

“I am not proud . . .” he whispered through his fingers. “I am ashamed of what — of what that memory shows. . . . I think I may have done great damage that day. . . .”
So I think he was ashamed--not realizing that Tom already knew about horcruxes--but I think he was also afraid if Voldemort found out he gave information to Dumbledore as well.

Quote:
If his feeling of shame was down to Regulus, I don't think that there would be any reason for the Sluggish memory to be suppressed. That memory had nothing to do with Regulus.
His shame may have been a combination, though, not just attributable to only one cause. And I think that for him to be ashamed, he would have had to make some connection with an event that would cause him to be ashamed of that memory--without such, there would be no reason for shame. So was that after OotP and Voldemort's reappearance? That would seem the obvious one. When did DD first ask Slughorn for this memory? And how did DD find out that Slughorn had such a memory?

It's also curious that Slughorn mentions to Tom that the subject is banned at Hogwarts and Dumbledore is particularly fierce about it.

Quote:
It is more likely, to me, that Regulus got his info on Horcruxes from the same or a similar source that Tom did, originally.
And we come to another mystery. Because Deathly Hallows suggests Tom learned about horcruxes from books in the library that Dumbledore removed when he became headmaster. That would mean Regulus could not have learned about horcruxes the same way Riddle did as DD was headmaster the entire time he was at Hogwarts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
I know what you're getting at, but I'm just saying that it's lucky for Harry that Voldemort didn't change his mind and decide to split his soul into more than the number he mentioned to Slughorn (he did that unintentionally anyways, thanks to Harry) which would make the Horcrux hunt even harder.
After hearing this, emphasis mine:
HBP: Horcruxes“Yes, sir,” said Riddle. “What I don’t understand, though — just out of curiosity — I mean, would one Horcrux be much use? Can you only split your soul once? Wouldn’t it be better, make you stronger, to have your soul in more pieces, I mean, for instance, isn’t seven the most powerfully magical number, wouldn’t seven — ?”
I think DD is fairly certain that LV would have only attempted to make 6 horcruxes--to invoke the power from the number seven.


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Last edited by mirrormere; August 23rd, 2012 at 3:45 pm.
  #1449  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 4:35 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
And we come to another mystery. Because Deathly Hallows suggests Tom learned about horcruxes from books in the library that Dumbledore removed when he became headmaster. That would mean Regulus could not have learned about horcruxes the same way Riddle did as DD was headmaster the entire time he was at Hogwarts.
Maybe it was ill-advised of me to say the same place as Voldemort. I just mean books in general. There is no reason for me to believe that Regulus had to learn about Horcruxes at school. For all we know, he may have been completely clueless about them until Kreacher told him about his mission for Voldemort. Hogwarts does not have a monopoly on books, and unlike Tom Riddle, Regulus had the whole magical world at his disposal from the time of his birth. I've no doubt that the information is out there, even if it is banned from Hogwarts' library.


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  #1450  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 4:41 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Regulus did have a family that was deeply interested in the Dark Arts. For all we know, a book on the subject could have been in the Black family study all along until taken by Regulus.


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  #1451  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 4:53 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Most likely that's it. Or they had some illegal connections to obtain such books.

Then again, just because Dumbledore banned the books on Horcruxs doesn't mean they're necessarily illegal books (otherwise they'd have mostly been destroyed), just ones he doesn't want in his school.


  #1452  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 5:48 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Most likely that's it. Or they had some illegal connections to obtain such books.

Then again, just because Dumbledore banned the books on Horcruxs doesn't mean they're necessarily illegal books (otherwise they'd have mostly been destroyed), just ones he doesn't want in his school.
Yeah, I don't think anyone's suggesting that the books would be illegal in the wider wizarding world. If so, it wouldn't have taken Dumbledore to ban them from Hogwarts.


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  #1453  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 6:44 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Is it possible that the books could have been bought at Knockturn Alley? Or perhaps Snape lent a book or two to Regulus? Snape was a DE, just like Regulus, and we read that he had lots of books at his home in Spinner's End.


  #1454  
Old August 24th, 2012, 4:50 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Regulus came from a family of dark wizards. Look at all the sinister dark artifacts the Order had gotten rid of when they were trying to make Grimmauld Place liveable. It's possible Regulus found those kinds of books in the family library.


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  #1455  
Old August 24th, 2012, 5:20 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

And if Horcruxs were actually illegal, then all books on them would've been destroyed long ago. That they were in the Hogwarts library at all means they AREN'T illegal and just are looked down upon.

Of course, it would've made more sense for them to BE illegal and not just "Dark Magic" but then Tom never would've found them to begin with and the plot wouldn't work.


  #1456  
Old August 24th, 2012, 5:46 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
And if Horcruxs were actually illegal, then all books on them would've been destroyed long ago. That they were in the Hogwarts library at all means they AREN'T illegal and just are looked down upon.

Of course, it would've made more sense for them to BE illegal and not just "Dark Magic" but then Tom never would've found them to begin with and the plot wouldn't work.
Well, since killing in general is illegal, it would probably not be necessary to take the next step and make horcruxes illegal, since they are the result of an already illegal act.


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  #1457  
Old August 24th, 2012, 6:15 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

I think it would make sense for Horcruxes to be illegal. However, I don't think it necessarily follows that all books on them would be destroyed. Perhaps the ones detailing how Horcruxes are made would be (or should have been ) closely watched by the Ministry, but it would be very difficult to gag that many academics on such an interesting subject. Plus, it seems to me to be a necessary subject when studying the soul.

I would also add that the AK is hardly the worst sort of spell that can be used on someone, and yet there are many books on all sorts of Dark magics still available.


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  #1458  
Old August 24th, 2012, 6:36 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Did Voldemort invent the Unforgiveables, or were they just existing spells heavily used by the Death Eaters?


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  #1459  
Old August 24th, 2012, 6:51 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

They were existing spells, and weren't always illegal.


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  #1460  
Old August 24th, 2012, 7:08 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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They were existing spells, and weren't always illegal.
Where do we learn this?


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