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#1321
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
I still say that it worked with Harry because it was a deliberate choice. I'm not so sure that James even could have "run away" given the time limits and the protections on the house. But I think the main part of the magic is making the conscious, deliberate choice, "I could live, but I choose to die to help the other(s)."
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#1322
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
It takes two for these things to work. One to make the offer, another to accept it (consciously or not). Lily blurted out something in a panic, Voldemort accepted her terms through his actions (though not his intentions) and together this created an unintentional protection spell.
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#1323
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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#1324
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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What I find a bit of a plot-hole is that he didn't set off for the Forest to give himself up as per Voldemort's challenge but to die so the horcrux would be destroyed and someone else would have a chance to finish off Nagini and Voldemort. In the face-off with Voldemort he says he was ready to die to stop Voldemort hurting "these people" but that's not what was in his mind when he went to the Forest as far as I can see.
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#1325
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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DH, page 695, US Hardcover: "Dumbledore knew, as Voldemort knew, that Harry would not let anyone else die for him now that he had discovered it was in his power to stop it. The images of Fred, Lupin and Tonks lying dead in the Great Hall forced their way back, and for a moment he could hardly breathe.."
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#1326
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Couple of questions:
-why does Dumbledore say that Harry had to be killed by Voldemort himself? Wouldn't it be the same if anyone else killed Harry to destroy the horcrux in him? -We know that Harry can get into Voldemort's mind and see what he sees. Yet, in Goblet of Fire, whenever Harry conects with Voldemort, he isn't exactly in Voldemorts mind: he's watching the scene as if he was there himself, not as one of the players (in the first scene, it almosts seems that Harry is in Frank Bryce's place, not Voldemort's). |
#1327
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 27: ![]()
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My family will say to me, “After all this time?” And I will say, “Always.” - source unknown |
#1328
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Yes, but why is Dumbledore so insistent that Voldemort is the one who has to kill Harry??
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#1329
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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And Harry has the blood protection from his mother, which also runs through Voldemort's veins because Voldemort used Harry's blood to come back to full power in OotP, which means, as DD correctly guessed, that when Voldemort goes to kill Harry, Harry lives but the horcrux inside him is destroyed.
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![]() avatar by me and WB, banner by Dark_Disciple When I'm 80 years old and sitting in my rocking chair, I'll be reading Harry Potter.
My family will say to me, “After all this time?” And I will say, “Always.” - source unknown Last edited by MerryLore; October 19th, 2012 at 3:00 pm. |
#1330
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Wouldn't the horcrux have been destroyed if someone else had killed Harry?
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#1331
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Yes - and Harry, too.
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My family will say to me, “After all this time?” And I will say, “Always.” - source unknown |
#1332
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Anyone can destroy a Horcrux, so yes, I think if anyone else had killed Harry then the Horcrux-like bit of Voldemort's soul in him would also have been destroyed. I think though that Harry would not have had the opportunity to live had someone besides Voldemort killed him. Lily's protection was in Harry, and Voldemort had taken Harry's blood to make himself a new body, and this protection specifically worked between Harry and Voldemort. I think Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to be the one to kill Harry because it would give that protection a chance to save Harry, and allow Harry to live-- something that would not happen if someone else killed Harry instead.
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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are. "UNTIL THE VERY END" -- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows. |
#1333
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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Voldemort's. |
#1334
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Perhaps it had something to do with Voldemort taking Harry's blood? Before that, he couldn't touch Harry. Perhaps the same barrier kept theirs souls apart, so Harry couldn't get into Voldemort's head. So, before the end of GoF, the soul connection Harry and Voldemort shared would let Harry observe from near Voldemort but not in Voldemort because Lily's bllod protection prevented it, but after the end of GoF, Harry would be in Voldemort's mind because the blood connection allowed it.
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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are. "UNTIL THE VERY END" -- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows. |
#1335
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
In regard to Voldemort and destroying the Horcrux...first, start from the beginning. If a wizard with an intact soul had come to murder Harry as a baby, gave Lily a choice and the same magic occurred, that wizard would be dead and his soul just goes on, I guess. Become a ghost, whatever. Now, we all know Voldemort's situation...with his completely damaged soul, doing the same thing had a piece of soul cling to Harry, Tom's body was destroyed, but he could not die because of his Horcruxes. This was a unique situation.
JK has said she only had Dumbledore refer to Harry as a horcrux, because that was the closest definition of whatever Harry was. Harry wasn't evil or have a curse on him, Voldemort never intended to do it and he never cast the horcrux spell or performed the gross ritual that makes the horcrux. Harry isn't a real horcrux. With that explained, it's also important to understand that there was a reason the prophecy said what it did. "Neither can live while the other survives." Once Voldemort took Harry's blood into his body, he tethered Harry to life. Which is why I don't understand why some people think that if someone else attempted to kill Harry that he would die. In essence, Voldemort is, for lack of a better term, a horcrux for Harry, just as it is the other way around. Quote:
It could very well be that the only way to get rid of that soul, in this unique so-called 'horcrux' situation, is that the person who's soul it belongs to has to destroy it themselves...not that they would want to, but Voldemort didn't know it was in there. I don't know why, but that seems to be what it boils down to. |
#1336
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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The thing about Dumbledore's insistence that Voldemort be the one to kill Harry, is that it gives Harry the chance to live, based solely upon Lily's blood -- that sacrifice was in Harry's blood and then in Voldemort's as well after GOF. So there is a strengthening of the blood protection left from Lily. And the protection was ONLY against dying by Voldemort's hand. Anyone else could have killed Harry. That realization (about Voldy's blood) was the reason for Dumbledore's momentary "gleam of triumph" that Harry thought he saw while relating the graveyard incident. Voldemort wanted to kill Harry personally, all the DE's knew it and Snape reminded them, giving Harry better odds at surviving the inevitable sacrifice by Harry. But Harry could have been killed by anyone else, releasing the soul-piece but Harry would die.
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#1337
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
Exactly, a lot of the stuff said about Harry was more or less propaganda/misdirection to set things up for the best chances of Harry's survival.
If Voldemort wasn't so egotistical and told all the DEs to kill Harry, Harry would just be dead. |
#1338
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
I see where the confusion is now. Understand this. Lily's blood sacrifice is acting the same way as a horcrux would. Its not a soul, its blood. Voldemort is a Lilycrux for Harry and vice versa. Harry was soul and blood for Tom. Understand? Yes i made that term up, because harry aint a horcrux. Anyone can destroy a horcrux. It doesnt work that way with a Lilycrux. If anyone could have killed Harry, why go through all the nonsense, let Snape do it. Let DD do it. Sorry, harry, i need to AK u to wipe out Toms soul. U can come back though, so no worries. Riddle said it had to be him who kill Harry, becaue of the incomplete prophecy, DD was gleaming because Tom just made Harry immortal, well, actually, just living while the Dark Lord lives, when taking his blood, or at least, unkillable,by ANYONE, NOT JUST VOLDEMORT. But not by a soul, but blood. Lilycrux. Understand?
Last edited by decaye23; October 21st, 2012 at 5:56 am. |
#1339
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
That's the thing, anyone COULD have killed Harry. Dumbledore knew this, which is why he did his best to promote misinformation in hopes it would delude Voldemort into thinking only he could kill Harry and thus he wouldn't allow anyone else to do it. He's lucky that Voldemort was enough of an arrogant fool to do this.
If Voldemort had said "I want you all to try and kill Potter if you can", Harry would've died anytime after GOF. |
#1340
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4
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