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The "F" word- are you offended by it?



 
 
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  #61  
Old November 4th, 2005, 8:47 pm
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Wandering Bard  Undisclosed.gif Wandering Bard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherezade
Obviously not - it's not their fault. I just don't like the idea of teaching children to cuss until they learn how to be more circumspect when they speak, to understand why it's offensive, etc. I don't actually like teaching kids to cuss at all, but they are bound to learn, so if you make sure that in your home you emphasise that you don't tolerate it, they are likely to learn not to use it around elders and other people until they can gauge it to be acceptable in the particular relationship.
And why is it offensive exactly?


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  #62  
Old November 4th, 2005, 8:49 pm
Allombora_Reiven  Male.gif Allombora_Reiven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Bard
And why is it offensive exactly?
The meaning and intentions the person puts behind them, of course. Not the wors nor the letters.


  #63  
Old November 4th, 2005, 8:59 pm
Scheherezade  Female.gif Scheherezade is offline
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A curse word is only made offensive by its meaning as Allombra Reiven said. But a child isn't exactly going to understand what the meaning is, even if you tell them, because it's laden with social connotations a child is just not going to get. It's offensive to hear it from a child, not because it's the child's fault (I'm not talking about speech impediments here by the way) but because no one thought to shield the child from it before they could understand the weight of what they were saying.


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  #64  
Old November 4th, 2005, 9:05 pm
Corgan  Female.gif Corgan is offline
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The 'f' word doesnt offend me personally, although I suppose its the context that alters its meaning. I hate hearing small children using bad language.. or parents swearing at small children.. ack..


  #65  
Old November 4th, 2005, 9:06 pm
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eVaNeScEnCe  Female.gif eVaNeScEnCe is offline
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I'd be a hypocrite if I said it's bad and horrible and disgusting: I use it myself on an everyday basis. To tell you the truth, around here, it's become sort of a second language. Society has highly been condoning it over the past few years. It's gotten to the point where someone says the F word in public and people barely flinch.

I do agree about the concern of young kids using that sort of language: it seems nowadays kids are learning to say bad words sooner than they are learning how to read.

I think it started with my generation, actually. I remember being around 9 and 10 years old and hearing the F word frequently from the mouths of my fellow classmates.

Nevertheless, as liberal a user I am of such a word, I will not let any future kids of mine say it themselves. I'll slap 'em if they do. I want my kids to set a better example for their parents.

Oh, and I agree about why the word is so offensive. The F word sounds like such an ugly word only because of the meaning people attach to it. If the word "Foot" would have been used instead to convey the same meaning, then it would have equally sounded as ugly. The same applies to other words in general. It's always about the context people use it in. "Cakesniffer" is a read liberally used in the books a series of unfortunate events, and although you automatically don't see anything wrong with it, it's an offensive word because the person who uses it says it to insult and injure the feelings of others, thus it becomes a derrogatory word in that context.

But anywho, I think I've dragged on for long enough. I'll shut up now.


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Last edited by eVaNeScEnCe; November 4th, 2005 at 9:12 pm.
  #66  
Old November 4th, 2005, 9:10 pm
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Excuse me here, I was using my story as an example. Not to critisize my son's speech. I'll have you know that I did take him into have him evaluated for speech and you know what he scored higher than most 7-8year olds and he was three at the time. My story was not for changing words, although some forthought is good. My point was that the fact that children say it is bothering people and that it wouldn't happen if people did not use that language at all. My point was also, that I think I and my family have done a fine job as niether one of my children even know or is aware of the vile word.



AND WORDS DO MATTER> read the rest of my post. By all means don't be outraged, because I care about my kids!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allombora_Reiven
So, if a kid who is learning to speak messes up his/her word and drops any cussword (sit for the "s-word") then it's bad?
That is not at all what I said. In fact my daughter, the one who the earlier story included made the same speech sounds when it came to the word sock. It's not bad that they are learning to speak, it's bad that society useses such language.


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  #67  
Old November 4th, 2005, 9:55 pm
Allombora_Reiven  Male.gif Allombora_Reiven is offline
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Not to start a flame war in anyway, I'm just curious how simple letters alligned in a specific manner are offensive in anyway? Is it not what you mean that matters? I mean, I could sign to you, "Hello, how are you doing today?" and I would not be saying the same words. They would have the same meaning but they would not be the same thing. Words are just a way for us to convey thoughts and ideas. Sentences even more so. So, how can the medium through which we do so be bad? How can something impartial, unbiased, and uncaring be offensive in anyway?

And I'm not outraged that you care for your kids, I'm more than happy that you do. It's a rarity now adays. However, caring for your kids is telling them what to and not to do. And you didn't tell them NOT to say the f-word (or if you did, you didn't properly explain what you fully meant). Ignorance is the biggest key to them actually saying the word. They don't fully understand what it means, they hear someone say (you can't keep your child from hearing such language 100% of the time) and then repeat it. This causes them to put a false association to the word and then they fail to realize that it is "bad (objectively speaking, of course)".

I know what I said may have looked like a personal attack, it wasn't intended as such in anyway and I appologize if you did take it as one.



Last edited by Allombora_Reiven; November 4th, 2005 at 9:58 pm.
  #68  
Old November 4th, 2005, 9:56 pm
Robot2022  Female.gif Robot2022 is offline
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When you come from Detroit next to nothing offends you.


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  #69  
Old November 4th, 2005, 10:32 pm
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Quote:
However, caring for your kids is telling them what to and not to do. And you didn't tell them NOT to say the f-word (or if you did, you didn't properly explain what you fully meant).


Quote:
My young son, like most children his age, was having difficulty with the "tr" sound and just about any other consenant and "r" combination. We, that is to say, my husband and I, did not have the forsight to teach him the word pick-up instead of truck. When he would see one the "tr" sound would come out as an "f" sound and there by sound like the very cuss word of which we are discussing. We did our best to not make a big deal about it, but reiterated the "tr" sound back to him so he could get used to it. Over a year later, my daughter was repeating the story to someone, and didn't understand the significance of adding the "f" inplace of the "tr" and she just up and said the four letter "f" word. I lost it. I got after her and told her never to say that again, yadda, yadda. I looked at her and my daughter was crying, then it dawned on me...she didn't understand the significance, because, we had never used it. She didn't know it was a bad word, because she didn't know. Unfortunatelly, I think I traumatized her beyond what any parent ever means to, but I don't think she will forget, and hopefully that offensive word will never part her lips intentionally.

Two things:
We did tell our children not to say the word, when that is the word that was meant to say. ie, my daughter, no she didn't know what it meant, but after she innocently said it and I reacted, she was informed that it was an offensive word. No, I wouldn't tell my son not to say truck with an "f", but reiterated the "tr" for him to hear and learn.

Caring for my children or any children for that matter, I don't think comes from telling them what to do and not to do. They aren't born and handed an instruction manual and then tested to know the rules. Caring for children and raising them to be kind, respectful, productive members of society comes from teaching them that their actions have consequences.

Question: The "F" word- are you offended by it?
Answer: YES


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Last edited by klynnrose; June 5th, 2007 at 7:07 pm.
  #70  
Old November 4th, 2005, 10:39 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherezade
A curse word is only made offensive by its meaning as Allombra Reiven said. But a child isn't exactly going to understand what the meaning is, even if you tell them, because it's laden with social connotations a child is just not going to get. It's offensive to hear it from a child, not because it's the child's fault (I'm not talking about speech impediments here by the way) but because no one thought to shield the child from it before they could understand the weight of what they were saying.
But surely the only way that the word can be offensive would be if it was used ina threatening or insulting way? How is seeing or hearing four letters grouped in a particular way offensive?


  #71  
Old November 4th, 2005, 10:58 pm
Scheherezade  Female.gif Scheherezade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Bard
But surely the only way that the word can be offensive would be if it was used ina threatening or insulting way? How is seeing or hearing four letters grouped in a particular way offensive?
By meaning I do not mean literal meaning. Words are metaphor anyway, on their own they just don't make sense. But meaning comes not just from dictionary definitions but the social context in which it exists. If say 'chalice' in an English speaking country, it's just a term for the cup that holds the wine during communion. If I say that in Quebec, it's going to be put in little stars or edited out, because it's one of the most offensive words in the Quebecois language. The social context of the F word is not a savoury one in any sense in the English language, and when people say it has a certain connotation, regardless of whether you use it in jest or in insult. It's meant to be unsavoury or 'offensive' anyway. You don't use it when you are in polite conversation for a reason. I actually do use the F word, just not frequently. It is my last recourse when I'm particularly angry. And I don't think it's something I would encourage my children to say.


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  #72  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:04 pm
Nicky3610  Female.gif Nicky3610 is offline
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Not really...My parents say it a lot so I guess it just becomes normal to hear if everyone in you family says it.
If it's directed at me than it doen't offend me more than any other insult which isn't much.


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  #73  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:04 pm
porcupine28  Female.gif porcupine28 is offline
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I hear it so much I'm immune.


  #74  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:05 pm
mystic_fairy  Female.gif mystic_fairy is offline
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No, I'm not offended by it, if someone wants to insult or offend me they're going to have to think of something intelligent. The only thing that bothers me (and I hope I don't offend anyone with this) is people who think they really are someone big and tough because they can swear, I don't find people who direct the "f word" at me intimidating, but lacking creativity.


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  #75  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:14 pm
Allombora_Reiven  Male.gif Allombora_Reiven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_fairy
I don't find people who direct the "f word" at me intimidating, but lacking creativity.
So, you'd rather someone say, "Sir, your feet are at an acute angle, your breath wreaks of halitosis, your skin looks as if it has been blanched, completely void of all color," than just be quick and to the point with a nice, "F you"?

Sorry, cursing is not a lack of creativity.


  #76  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:19 pm
Scheherezade  Female.gif Scheherezade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allombora_Reiven
So, you'd rather someone say, "Sir, your feet are at an acute angle, your breath wreaks of halitosis, your skin looks as if it has been blanched, completely void of all color," than just be quick and to the point with a nice, "F you"?

Sorry, cursing is not a lack of creativity.
*sigh* I agree with you on that point. I'm sure though that the poster meant this:

"I was so effing wasted last night, it was like mother eff, I effing have never been so effed up and like there was this dude, who was all like... effing... like.... effing all up in my face, and i was like eff, dude, like eff off, mother effer...."

Gets a bit monotonous doesn't it?


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  #77  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:28 pm
Allombora_Reiven  Male.gif Allombora_Reiven is offline
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It's sentence flavoring, man.


  #78  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:29 pm
Scheherezade  Female.gif Scheherezade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allombora_Reiven
It's sentence flavoring, man.
..... That sounds like something my cousin would say.


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  #79  
Old November 4th, 2005, 11:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherezade

By meaning I do not mean literal meaning. Words are metaphor anyway, on their own they just don't make sense. But meaning comes not just from dictionary definitions but the social context in which it exists. If say 'chalice' in an English speaking country, it's just a term for the cup that holds the wine during communion. If I say that in Quebec, it's going to be put in little stars or edited out, because it's one of the most offensive words in the Quebecois language. The social context of the F word is not a savoury one in any sense in the English language, and when people say it has a certain connotation, regardless of whether you use it in jest or in insult. It's meant to be unsavoury or 'offensive' anyway. You don't use it when you are in polite conversation for a reason. I actually do use the F word, just not frequently. It is my last recourse when I'm particularly angry. And I don't think it's something I would encourage my children to say.
To take offense when the F-word is used merely for emphasis seems to me to deliberately misinterpret what that person intends to communicate. Words do not have fixed meanings.


  #80  
Old November 5th, 2005, 12:09 am
Besanamo  Female.gif Besanamo is offline
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If it's for a reason it doesn't offend me. It really bothers me if people say it 4 or 5 times in every sentence they say though. I myself have only used the f-word once knowing what it meant, I usually use other words or swear in German, if I do at all.

What I don't understand though is why people that are offended by some swear words aren't offended if you change the last two syllables as in "gosh" or "heck". I don't see a difference between them and the original word that is intended because they have the exact same meaning.

Anyway in my school you get detention for swearing, and they actually fired a teacher because he swore in front of some students and he didn't say the f-word or anything. We even have to skip some words in Shakespeare because they could be offensive. I personally think that's a bit to much but hey my english exam last year was to write about ways to fight against swearing. There was actually an article in the exam that said people should set up signs at bus stops etc. that say "No swearing allowed"

Btw I agree with everyone who said you shoudn't swear in front of children, it can have effects you can't imagine. Back in grade 3 or 4 me and my friend heard somebody say the f-word and he didn't know what it meant, neither did I. So we went around and asked everybody what it meant and nobody told us it was a bad thing to say. They actually all said they've never heard it before, including his parents. So we thought we made up a new word and said it all the time. Well my mom eventually told me that it was something bad to say etc., after the school had phoned her saying I was running around and saying "mean words" at everyone. I almost got kicked out for a word I had no clue about. So don't swear around children and if your kid asks you, tell them it's something they shouldn't say, don't tell them it doesn't exist or something similar, unless you want something like what happened to me to happen.


 
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