Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

The Creature at King's Cross



View Poll Results: Check all that apply
The creature was the piece of Voldemort's soul that made Harry a Horcrux. 271 55.53%
The creature was Voldemort's actual soul from his body in the forest. 204 41.80%
The creature is something else or a symbolic idea or combination of his soul pieces. 53 10.86%
Voldemort's fall in the forest is unrelated to the creature or the blood bond 16 3.28%
Voldemort's fall in the forest is related to the creature in King's Cross. 176 36.07%
Voldemort's fall in the forest is related to the blood bond. 116 23.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 488. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #641  
Old April 14th, 2010, 3:54 pm
unn0129  Undisclosed.gif unn0129 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3700 days
Posts: 8
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
I think the flayed-looking creature was meant to show how Voldemort had damaged and stunted his own soul. Harry appeared in King's Cross virtually flawless- I think that signified the state of his soul at death. Dumbledore appeared okay but not perfect-- unlike Harry, Dumbledore still needed glasses to correct his vision, and also I think he still had his Aberforth-modified nose. I think that represented the state of Dumbledore's soul at his death. Voldemort had done terrible things to his own soul, so I think it appeared damaged and stunted for that reason.
I've never thought about it that way before. Thanks for the insight.


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #642  
Old April 14th, 2010, 7:30 pm
Slytherin_12  Female.gif Slytherin_12 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3718 days
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 104
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
I think you have a good point about Voldemort's remaining soul being so frail. A ghost is described as an imprint of a soul, so even if the frail thing left could have managed to leave behind an imprint, it would be a copy of what we saw in King's Cross and it would have been just as incapable of functioning as the real thing, in my opinion. But there was so little of Voldemort's real soul left after he had torn bits off for the Horcruxes, which were destroyed, and it was mangled because of all the mass-murders, so I don't think it was capable of leaving an impression of itself behind, any more than I think it capable of making it out of Limbo-land under its own volition.
I agree with this. Good post.

This is a very fascinating scene, nonetheless. Truly makes you wonder what the King's Cross represented--could have been the afterlife...Also, a pretty creepy sight knowing that thing was Voldemort.
Actually, we may also have seen this in the 4th book...at the end before Voldemort got resurrected. Still. *shudders*


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #643  
Old April 14th, 2010, 11:40 pm
ALX2112  Female.gif ALX2112 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3720 days
Location: New Zealand
Age: 29
Posts: 80
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandrider View Post
(Harry was protected at the Dursley's till 17yrs too, or did that mean anywhere until 17 as long as that was his blood-tie home?)
He was only protected as long as he called the Dursely's home
or until he was of age. That night the Order came to escort him to the Burrow Harry and The Dursleys went there seperate ways therefore breaking the charm early.


__________________
http://www.seanbiggerstaff.com/

Music is my aeroplane
Reply With Quote
  #644  
Old April 15th, 2010, 1:23 am
chaosman  Undisclosed.gif chaosman is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3712 days
Age: 51
Posts: 69
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandrider View Post
(Harry was protected at the Dursley's till 17yrs too, or did that mean anywhere until 17 as long as that was his blood-tie home?)
IMO but I am pretty sure it is proven by the text, Harry was protected anywhere as long as he still had the blood tie home, and was not of age. If he had not been protected anywhere the scene in SS between Quirrelmort and Harry would have played out quite differently. Also we see that Vernon was not able to choke Harry in OotP. To me it seems that the magical protection would come into play whenever Harry was attacked by someone intending to kill or seriously harm him. Of course, once V took Harry's blood in GoF, V was able to circumvent that protection because he shared it, but IMO the protection would still work as protection from anyone else. At the end of GoF I believe that Barty Crouch Jr. would not have been able to kill Harry even if DD,Snape, And Minerva had not arrived in time. I believe that the protection would have come into play had they not arrived when they did.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #645  
Old April 15th, 2010, 3:30 am
snapes_witch's Avatar
snapes_witch  Female.gif snapes_witch is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5338 days
Location: afternoon tea at Granny's
Posts: 2,973
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosman View Post
IMO but I am pretty sure it is proven by the text, Harry was protected anywhere as long as he still had the blood tie home, and was not of age. If he had not been protected anywhere the scene in SS between Quirrelmort and Harry would have played out quite differently. Also we see that Vernon was not able to choke Harry in OotP. To me it seems that the magical protection would come into play whenever Harry was attacked by someone intending to kill or seriously harm him. Of course, once V took Harry's blood in GoF, V was able to circumvent that protection because he shared it, but IMO the protection would still work as protection from anyone else. At the end of GoF I believe that Barty Crouch Jr. would not have been able to kill Harry even if DD,Snape, And Minerva had not arrived in time. I believe that the protection would have come into play had they not arrived when they did.
Harry was protected from Quirrell's touch by the ancient charm that Lily's death activated. As you said, after Voldemort was resurrected using Harry's blood he could touch Harry without fear.

Lily's blood had nothing to do with the protection at the Dursleys because that was Dumbledore's protection charm.

If he was protected at all times and in all places by a protection charm, then what was the point of Snape's promise to Dumbledore to protect Harry?


__________________

SEVERUS SNAPE
HEADMASTER
HOGWARTS SCHOOL OF WITCHCRAFT AND WIZARDRY
1997-98

REQUIESCAT IN PACE
9 JANUARY, 1960 - 2 MAY, 1998
Reply With Quote
  #646  
Old April 15th, 2010, 3:47 am
OldMotherCrow's Avatar
OldMotherCrow  Female.gif OldMotherCrow is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4239 days
Location: Here. I'm pretty sure of it.
Posts: 1,297
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Harry was protected from Quirrell's touch by the ancient charm that Lily's death activated. As you said, after Voldemort was resurrected using Harry's blood he could touch Harry without fear.

Lily's blood had nothing to do with the protection at the Dursleys because that was Dumbledore's protection charm.
Dumbledore's charm was based on Lily's sacrifice, but even so Dumbledore's charm seems to have held after Voldemort used Harry's blood. I agree with snape's witch that it is Dumbledore's charm based on Lily's sacrifice which is breaking, but I do think that the book confuses the matter by saying that it is Lily's protection which is going away.

Quote:
If he was protected at all times and in all places by a protection charm, then what was the point of Snape's promise to Dumbledore to protect Harry?
It gave Snape something positive to focus on, in my opinion. But, yes, I think Harry needed to be protected, with or without the charm. I think that the books demonstrated that Harry could be harmed or kidnapped even with Lily's protection in place, and that all those people who risked themselves giving Harry protection-- from Petunia to Hagrid to Sirius to Molly and many others--they were taking a necessary risk if they wanted to keep him safe.


Reply With Quote
  #647  
Old April 15th, 2010, 9:18 pm
CurseCruciatus  Female.gif CurseCruciatus is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3733 days
Posts: 231
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but during Voldemort and Harry's "conversation" right before either sends a spell, Harry tells Voldemort to "try for some remorse". He also says "It's your one last chance, it's all you've got left... I've seen what you'll be otherwise..."

I'm not sure how relevant the quote is, but I believe that Harry knew that was what Voldemort's soul had become, and it was what Voldemort himself would be.


__________________
Their daring, nerve, and chivalry set Gryffindors apart.
"I solemnly swear that I'm up to no good."

Proud supporter of: HWRKDJCKQ. I have yet to figure out what that means.
Reply With Quote
  #648  
Old January 3rd, 2011, 4:32 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5417 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

2. If it is a piece of Voldemort's soul, is it the piece that was within Harry, or is it the piece that resided within Voldemort?

In their final confrontation, Harry tells Voldemort: "It's your one last chance, it's all you've got left.... I've seen what you'll be otherwise.... Be a man.... try.... Try for some remorse...."

The only thing I can think of that Harry has seen, which Harry could mean by "I've seen what you'll be otherwise" is the flayed baby at King's Cross.

I therefore believe it is the piece that resided within Voldemort. And thus also, the piece that would, after the destruction of the Horcruxes and the death of Voldemort, embark upon the Potterverse afterlife.

3. JK Rowling notes in an interview that Voldemort is forced to exist in the stunted form that we see at King's Cross. What do you think about this?

I think it is a disturbing and depressing idea, and it makes me think well of Harry that he offered Voldemort a way out of such a fate. But I think the point of this in Rowling's work is not to show a harsh and awful fate for sinners in the manner of old-fashioned religious views. Instead, I think the point is that this is self-inflicted. If Voldemort did realize the wrong he had done, the importance of love and respect for others, etc. he could accept help; until he does, her is beyond it.

It is still a bit problematic to me because it seems Voldemort was written as damaged from babyhood (which suggests his choices may not be entirely free here), but I think a discussion of that may belong elsewhere.

4. Is the presence of the creature at King's Cross related to Voldemort's fall in the Forbidden Forest?

In my opinion, yes. I believe both Harry and Voldemort are brought to the brink of the afterlife and there take on the respective forms they would have in it by the effects of Voldemort's curse in the Forest. Harry is there as himself, only with 20/20 vision (rather Sirius and Lupin later appear as happy and young and healthy versions of themselves), whereas Voldemort is there as the flayed baby.

5. Why does Voldemort fall within the forest?

Because of all the various links he has to Harry. He has destroyed a soul bit, he has taken Harry's blood to remake himself, and so trying to kill Harry affects him as well.

6. Was Voldemort in his own version of King's Cross or was he just unconscious?

I am not sure the two are distinguishable for him, given that I believe his King's Cross form is a flayed infant.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
Reply With Quote
  #649  
Old January 3rd, 2011, 5:50 am
AccioFirebolt20  Female.gif AccioFirebolt20 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3442 days
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 56
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

1. What do you think the form is? Is this a piece of Voldemort's soul? If not, what is it?
Well I voted for a part of Voldemort's Soul that was inside Harry as part of the Horcrux. That's personally what I thought it was when I was reading that chapter. Dumbledore says that "he couldn't help" because it had been destroyed by its creator beyond magical repair, as a Horcrux should.

2. If it is a piece of Voldemort's soul, is it the piece that was within Harry, or is it the piece that resided within Voldemort?
I think it would have been the piece that resided within Voldemort. Because as we know, when Harry's parents died that night, part of Voldemorts powers went into him. I wouldn't be surprised, if by accident, that the Horcrux also entered Harry. Therefore when Harry went to Voldemort, the Horcrux was destroyed and Harry was able to defeat Voldemort no trouble.

3. JK Rowling notes in an interview that Voldemort is forced to exist in the stunted form that we see at King's Cross. What do you think about this?
I find that kinda weird. I mean, it wasn't until Goblet of Fire where we see Voldemort in full body. Before then, he was, as you say, a stunted form of himself. He barely existed, and needed to live off someone (parasite, Quirrell for example), in order to survive.I think that Voldemort should have been in full form, so that Harry was able to defeat him man-to-man (face-to-face) etc.

4. Is the presence of the creature at King's Cross related to Voldemort's fall in the Forbidden Forest?
Yes definitely. When Voldemort cast Avada Kedavra on Harry, he was unaware, except for Harry, that he had destroyed the Horcrux that resided within him. Harry had to lie still, however, so he couldn't give away that he was not dead. Voldemort hadn't killed Harry, he had only killed the Horcrux (part of Voldemort's soul) that had resided in him all these years.

5. Why does Voldemort fall within the forest?
Same answer as above, kind of. Although I would add that when the Horcrux inside Harry was destroyed, Voldemort would be no longer mortal. Although Harry had to wait until the opportune moment (so POTC xD) in order to defeat him at last.

6. Was Voldemort in his own version of King's Cross or was he just unconscious?
I think that it might have been his own version. Because as I said previous, when he killed Harry's parents and transferred some of his powers to him that night, I think that he would also have passed his Horcrux to him as well. So I have a feeling that it would have been his own version. I'm not sure about him being unconscious. I'm pretty sure he was still alive but beyond help though.

7. If the fall in the forest is not related to the creature at King's Cross, then what is an alternative explanation?
As I said previous, I think the fall in the Forest is related to the creature at King's Cross. If anyone can think of an explanation as to why it is not, I would be willing to hear it.


__________________
GRYFFINDOR PRIDE

You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide.
Reply With Quote
  #650  
Old January 3rd, 2011, 11:50 am
AlDumblydorr  Undisclosed.gif AlDumblydorr is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3447 days
Posts: 64
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

WHen LV used AK on harry, he blasted apart his own soul fragment in harry, leaving the latter's soul intact. that much is clear. when harry goes to king's cross, that creature is the part of voldemort's soul that has been cleared of harry's body, which is why: 1. it is so miserable looking (because LV's soul should be in tatters) and 2. Dumbledore was so stern when it came to refusing help.

Harry left LV's soul in the so-called 'land of the dead,' and came back to beat him with no horcruxes left.


Reply With Quote
  #651  
Old April 3rd, 2011, 3:33 pm
X_Bumblebee_X  Female.gif X_Bumblebee_X is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5170 days
Location: Scotland
Posts: 138
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

The creature at Kings Cross is obviously part of Voldemort. Whether it is from his physical body that was knocked unconscious or from the part inside Harry I do not know, however I know that whatever fragment of soul it was, the other pieces were in for the same fate. I do not think that an incomplete soul can "go on" as Dumbledore states(meaning someone who has made a horcrux and removed piece of their soul from the whole) I think with atonement, a person with a split soul, who has not made a horcrux from the split may be granted forgiveness and peace, but I think all the broken pieces of Voldemorts soul with be forever in this "in-between" world, and will feel forever the pain he caused.


Reply With Quote
  #652  
Old April 10th, 2011, 6:37 pm
Dan_the_Man  Female.gif Dan_the_Man is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4823 days
Location: A Portrait in Hogwarts
Posts: 130
Re: The Creature at King's Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Bumblebee_X View Post
The creature at Kings Cross is obviously part of Voldemort. Whether it is from his physical body that was knocked unconscious or from the part inside Harry I do not know, however I know that whatever fragment of soul it was, the other pieces were in for the same fate. I do not think that an incomplete soul can "go on" as Dumbledore states(meaning someone who has made a horcrux and removed piece of their soul from the whole) I think with atonement, a person with a split soul, who has not made a horcrux from the split may be granted forgiveness and peace, but I think all the broken pieces of Voldemorts soul with be forever in this "in-between" world, and will feel forever the pain he caused.
I wouldn't say it was that obvious, I had to re-read it a few times to understand it. But I do agree with you.


__________________
I joined Pottermore July 31st, 2011



"It's lucky it's dark. I haven't blushed so much since Madame Pomfrey told me she liked my new earmuffs."
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Bookmarks

Tags
albus dumbledore, creature, flayed baby, horcruxes, king's cross


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:56 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.