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Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis



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  #1  
Old October 18th, 2007, 6:17 pm
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Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

I think the Harry/Dumbledore relationship is one of the most interesting and critical in canon. They move from an almost parent/child in SS/PS to almost equals in HBP and finally to Dumbledore's admission that Harry is the better man in DH *tears up a bit*

Dumbledore's tendency to allow Harry to suffer in the interest of "the greater good" is first revealed to us in SS/PS when he decides to leave him with the Dursleys despite McGonagall's protestations that they are horrible people. It culminates in DH with the revelation that he intends Harry to sacrifice himself to destroy the horcrux inside of him. Yet despite all this Harry forgives him and Dumbledore seems to genuinely care for Harry.

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?


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  #2  
Old October 18th, 2007, 7:42 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think Dumbledore expected something from Petunia that she was incapable of giving. On the other hand, Dumbledore had a point about Harry growing up famous in the wizarding world. It wouldn't have been good for Harry.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

Harry told us: "He lets me try my strength."

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

Harry should have been told after the cemetery scene in GoF.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

I thought they made a good team in the quest for the locket, but they were never equals in HBP.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

I think so.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

Not the stone.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I think it's obvious from the text that Harry came very close to completely losing faith in Dumbledore altogether.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Yeah.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

I think so. Just as James and Dumbledore were friends.


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Old October 18th, 2007, 10:52 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think Dumbledore did do the right thing. Growing up as he did contributed to the way Harry turned out. I don't think Dumbledore knew that Harry would be mistreated as badly as he was, but I also think that Harry's trying childhood is the reason he had the strength to do what he had to do.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

I think Dumbledore wanted to see what Harry was like, to see if he would be able to handle what was coming.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I thought the timing was fine. Harry had to realize what the prophecy meant on his own anyway, which didn't happen until a little while later anyway. I think it was nice that he spent a few years in the magical community without the weight of the world on his shoulders.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

I didn't consider their work in HBP teamwork so much as Dumbledore passing knowledge to Harry because he knew he would be dying soon. I think the only thing Harry provided was a more simplistic view of things, like when he suggested summoning the Horcrux.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No, it was Snape's choice to tell Harry if he decided he wanted him to know.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I think Dumbledore would have told him the full story, especially since Harry witnessed Dumbledore's reaction to the potion in the cave. He had already seen Dumbledore at his weakest. I think the only reason Dumbledore kept putting off telling Harry the entire story was because it was still traumatic, and putting it off was easier than coming out with it. Besides, it wasn't really directly related to Harry's mission. I personally think that Dumbledore's past was none of Harry's business.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I think Harry lost trust in Dumbledore because he felt that Dumbledore knew more about him than he knew about Dumbledore. That doesn't make for an equal relationship, and Harry seemed to feel like Dumbledore was a stranger. But I don't think that Dumbledore's past should have had that much of a bearing on his feelings about the Dumbledore he had known.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

I don't think Dumbledore asked more of Harry than Harry could have given. I'm not sure it would have helped Harry if Dumbledore had told him more of the truth. Sometimes it's best to learn things on your own instead of having them told to you.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

I think they would have been friends, but not the same way that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were friends. I think their relationship would still tend to be more teacher/student though.


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Old October 19th, 2007, 12:18 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

w00t! Gotta love this topic! Dumbledore as mentor is always fascinating! ^^

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

It was a tough decision. Let Harry grow up among some obviously awful Muggles and keep a good, innocent and humble POV, or grow up loved and adored, but with a swelled head and perhaps even a bullying nature? Dumbledore chose the Dursleys because he needed to think of "The Greater Good". Harry needed to be as pure of heart as possible for his power to manifest itself, IMO.
I don't think Dumbledore realized the true extent of the abuse Harry suffered until OotP. It was at the end of this book that Moody, Tonks, et al. approached the Dursleys and threatened them. As leader of the Order, Dumbledore must have known why they were doing this.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

I think Dumbledore didn't want to get too close to Harry. He wanted to get a good idea of who Harry was and how well his plans for the boy would go.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

In HBP, I see a bit more mentoring than teamwork, since Dumbledore is relaying information to Harry and also helping him along in his analysis of Voldemort.
In the cave, there is a lot more mentoring, with Dumbledore taking the wheel for the first leg, so sure that some spells will work and some won't. When they're on the small island, however, Dumbledore trusts Harry to work with him on the potion-swallowing. Here is where Dumbledore is not sure. He isn't sure what the potion will do, he is weakened by the potion....it is up to Harry to take the lead, and he does it well. That, I think, is where their teamwork show up, when the support becomes two-sided.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No. Snape was a very private man, and it was up to him whether or not he wanted to share a more personal side of him.
Also, if Snape found out that Dumbledore had betrayed his trust, who knows what the younger man would have done?

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I think it deepened Harry's feelings toward Dumbledore. He no longer saw Dumbledore as an idealized person, but as a true human being, with flaws and regrets. This allowed his love for Dumbledore to grow enough to name his second child Albus Severus.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

No, Dumbledore asked of Harry what Harry needed to do and know. It was hard for Harry, no doubt, but it was needed.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

I believe so.


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  #5  
Old October 19th, 2007, 12:18 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Oooh, good idea for a thread.

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think he did do the right thing, although it was a difficult choice to make. I feel Dumbledore genuinely did care for Harry, and he would have prefered the idea of Harry growing up in a loving household, but he knew it would be best for Harry in the long run to grow up not knowing his past. Although, I'm glad Dumbledore did tell off the Dursleys in HBP - that was nice to see, finally.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

It's good that he let Harry learn for himself, because Harry might not have had the strength to walk into the Forest in DH if he hadn't experienced the things he did. It let Harry learn about himself and his strengths, and that came in very useful later on.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I agree with Purplehawk - he should have told him at the end of GoF, because Harry had experienced so much by then, and he'd proved himself so many times. But I guess plot-wise, that was a bit too much to swallow after Voldemort's resurection and Cedric's death.

I find it hard to imagine Dumbledore and Harry's relationship during the latter's fifth year if he'd known about the Prophecy by fourth year. Harry's anger at Dumbledore during the entire book was put to an end during the conversation in Dumbledore's office, when he did tell him about the Prophecy, so I dunno how that anger would have played out, if it had been there in the first place. Plot-wise, I completely understand why Jo made Dumbledore tell Harry when he did.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?


I think their relationship that year really solidified the idea of the Prophecy for Harry, and the importance of it all. Dumbledore showed Harry great leadership and intelligence, while Harry showed Dumbledore loyalty and fairness, I guess. Especially during the cave scene, I felt their roles were really put into a spotlight. Dumbledore was the one to figure out all the intricate kinds of magic Voldemort used to protect the locket, such as the entrance to the cave, the boat, and then the potion. He also was the one to fight off the inferi, even while incredibly weak. Harry, on the other hand, did exactly as he was told and fed Dumbledore the potion even when it was definitely not the ideal thing to do, seeing as he was basically poisoning Dumbledore against his will - and then he did all in his power to save Dumbledore, helping him swim and all. When Dumbledore said "I'm not worried, I'm with you", it really showed that there was a deep trust between the two of them. I think they really did make a great team.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?


Err, I dunno. It might have helped Harry out, or it might have hindered him. There are too many What Ifs? that I can't come to a solid conclusion about it. I think it worked out the way it did, obviously, and I guess I respect Dumbledore's loyalty to his word.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I think he would have told him about putting it on and getting cursed - though I don't know what he'd have told Harry to excuse his putting on the ring in the first place, because I'm sure he wouldn't have told Harry about the stone. He was afraid Harry would get tempted by the Hallows like he himself had been, which is why the Snitch only opened "at the close", so that Harry's temptation to use it would be short lived and harmless. So I'm sure he would have kept the story of the stone secret, but I guess he would have let Harry in on the curse - obviously telling him it was not harmful but his hand was just blackened forever. He wouldn't have told him that he was marked for death.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I think it was healthy for Harry to see Dumbledore as a human being, and not some supreme being. I thought it was nicely played out at the wedding to see Doge, the Dumbledore-worshipper, and Muriel, the Dumbledore-skeptic, contrast each other and basically personify Harry's duelling feelings about Dumbledore. It was interesting to see Harry's doubt everything that had happened between the two of them while continuously following Dumbledore's orders. He was furious with him, but stayed faithful to his plan. That was particularily significant in The Forest Again, when he realised Dumbledore had known all along, and had never once told him - and he was angry with Dumbledore, as anyone would be, but he still went into the Forest as Dumbledore intended. It just showed how Harry was incredibly dedicated to the task at hand and could, to a point, see where Dumbledore was coming from with all the "greater good" stuff.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?


I think he did ask a lot of Harry, but I think Dumbledore knew fully well that Harry would have Hermione and Ron by his side. He'd seen them interact and, ever since PS when they fought off a mountain troll, work together spectacularily as a team. So he knew Harry has the help he needed, and the support from his friends that he required to go on.

I think there were certain things Dumbledore could have let Harry in on before. He could have told Harry about the sword, or how to actually finish horcruxes, or where to start looking for them. He left Harry with a huge load on his shoulders, but in the end Harry (and Hermione and Ron, of course) figured it all out, which was rather lucky, to be honest. I also think he could have told Harry a bit more about his past. He could have left out the stuff about Grindelwald, if he'd wanted to keep that hidden, and simply told Harry about their shared situations revolving around Godric's Hollow - of course, it would have been a painful subject, but Harry had been through so many horrors and lost so many loved ones that it wouldn't be like talking to a complete stranger to the situation. I feel they both would have benefitted from that shared knowledge about their pasts in Godric's Hollow, and like Harry said, it would have been a nice bond for them to visit the place together.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?


I believe so, definitely. Harry came to forgive him and named his son after him - which I'm glad he did, because although many think Dumbledore was despicable for the way he pulled the strings the entire time, I feel he truly cared about Harry, and was truly sorry for many things in his life. He was, afterall, greatly responsible for taking down Voldemort. In the end he asked for forgiveness, and I feel that made him worthy of it. He recognized Harry as the greater man, and that showed such a nice evolution in their relationship - it went from him being the Mentor towards Harry, to Harry being the greater man, the one Dumbledore learned from.

I think they had one of the most outstanding relationships in the series. They both learned so much from one another, that it was not one-sided at all. Dumbledore was instrumental to Harry's journey, as was Harry to Dumbledore's.


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Old October 19th, 2007, 12:31 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing by leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which he would be mistreated?
I presume that he didn't know how much Harry had been mustreated. Of course, he had known Petunia before, and knew that she had a desire for the magical world, but he probably thought that Vernon would not know of this. So Petunia would most likely keep it a secret, from both Harry and Vernon. So therefore, Dumbledore would know that Harry hadn't recieved all the true information that Petunia knew: Who he was, what he was, how his parents really died, and who she was. That's why Albus told Hagrid that there would be trouble getting Harry. (SS/PS, Chapter 4.) He knew that due to Vernon's knowing of the magical world, he would probably consider Harry a complete wierdo, just because he was a wizard. So I think Dumbledore did expect him to be mistreated a little, but not as much as he was. Albus overestimated Vernon, thinking him a kinder person than he really was. That was made clear by his disappointed reaction when he met the Dursleys again in HBP.

Did Albus do the right thing by leaving Harry there? Absolutely. He left him with the only family in the world that he had, henceforth keeping his mother's charm active. When he was there, under the age of seventeen, he could not be harmed by Voldemort. However mistreated, however hated and ignored he was, he had been taken, so through Petunia, his mother's charm protected him when he was there. If Dumbledore had left him to be adopted by a wizarding family, Harry would have been in grave danger. Lily's charm would have been canceled, for he would not be protected by his relations. It would have been easy for a Death Eater, or even Vaper-mort himself to capture or kill him.

Dumbledore had a choice between giving Harry a happy childhood soon resulting in death, or a miserable one that protected him. Albus the latter, proving how much he really did care about the Boy Wo Lived.


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Old October 19th, 2007, 3:38 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

When he left Harry on Privet Drive, I don't think he knew that they would mistreat Harry. He might have assumed that they would be shocked at the responsibility, but did Dumbledore expect Harry to be mistreated? I don't think so. I think DD became fully aware of Harry's lifestyle when he contacted Mrs. Figg and asked her about Harry.
I respect Dumbledore's decision to leave Harry with the Dursleys. It was the most efficient way of keeping Harry alive. It worked for sixteen years and kept Harry safe during those times.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

Well, this is a bit like parenting a child. Parents get to raise their child, but they can't shelter the child forever. The child needs to grow and learn life's lessons through experience. I think this is the same with DD. He might've wanted to protect Harry, but he knew he couldn't. Harry had the right to live his life, and DD would have to watch him grow and progress as a person.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I think at the end of GoF, Harry should have known. Harry saw someone die right before his eyes and had to duel with Voldemort. He was tortured and narrowly escaped death. Harry, at that point, had the right to know about the prophecy, in light of what he experienced.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

It would have made a huge difference, but he couldn't. Dumbledore made a promise to Snape, and he couldn't renege. Can you imagine how Snape would react? And it was Snape's duty to tell Harry about his love for Lily, not Dumbledore's.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I really dont know. I think part of Dumbledore was worrying that Harry may have the same attraction to the Hallows like Dumbledore did. The horcruxes were top priority and to distract Harry with other objects of grandeur wouldhave prevented the destruction of the horcruxes.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

Harry seemed really confused with Dumbledore. Before DD died, he told Harry so much, yet so little. During DH I think Harry realized that his relationship with DD only centered around Harry. Because of this, Harry didn't learn a lot of things. Eventually when finding out about Dumbledore's past, Harry feels really irritated with Dumbledore. Since the two of them only talked about Harry, Dumbledore never got the chance to tell Harry about himself. Like Hermion said, the reason why Harry was so mad was because Dumbledore didn't tell Harry anything Harry found out about.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

No. I think Dumbledore expected what he thought Harry would do. He knew that if he told Harry the truth that Harry would react in a certain way. If he told Harry about the horcrux inside him, it would have been horrible because the other horcruxes needed to be destroyed.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Yes. They cared about each other a lot. I'm sure they would have been great friends if they got the time to spend more time together.


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Old October 19th, 2007, 9:59 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I think that even if he did realise that Harry won't be exactly happy there, he knew that was the best he could do for him. Otherwise he risked Voldemort coming back at any givn moment and going straight for Harry in whichever magical dwelling he was being raised. I do believe Dumbledore did what was best for Harry.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

He was preparing him, I think. He had an idea what Harry would have to go through, eventually, and knew it was essential that the boy is as prepared for it as possible. And as we saw, this tactics helped a lot.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I actually am of the opinion that Dumbledore wasn't wrong in hiding it from Harry for so long. Especially since DH has been out, I've come across a lot of displeasure at Dumbledore's "manipulating" Harry and treating him as a tool, and at the same time protests against him hiding things fom him. Well, in that particular case - not revealing the prophecy - Dumbledore was treating Harry as a human, and as someone he loved, because he withheld the information for so long only because he wanted him ti have a normal life and couldn't bear to lump this horrible wight on him at such a young age. He himself admitted, that then, for once, he didn't care about the greater good, he only cared about Harry's happiness. I get teary-eyed when I read that scene. I eally admired Dumbledore for that. He put Harry's happiness before everything else.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

I can't really say. Their interaction has very clear model - Dumbledore instructs, and Harry listens. I wouldn't call them a team. After all, Dumbledore was just passing knowledge to Harry, because he knew he would be dead soon.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No. It would have been absolutely horrible - and I think Harry understands this at the end - to promise a heart-broken man that you would keep his only secret and then go and break that promise. I think keeping your word is always a honourable thing to do. Plus the Dumbledore-Snape relationship (perhps even a thread in the future??) wouldn't have been as fascinating if its premise had been known.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I don't think so. It was made petty clear in DH that Dumbledore felt that Harry would need time to come to terms with the idea of the Hallows, and made it as hard as he could for him to unvoer it in the first place. When he said he would tell him the full story (and he said the full story about how his head got damaged, not how he got hold of the ring), I think he only meant it being a Hircrux and him destroying it. And he did tell him that.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

Nothing long-lasting, as we saw. I was realy annoyed at Harry, ti be honest, especially when he insisted he had to know "the truth" about Dumbledore's past. I realky couldn't figure out what rught he had to demand that knowledge, and why he felt Dumbledore should have told him all about his youth. I was really glad when at the end, thanks to his gried over Dobby, he decided he just had to trust Dumbledore. That was the right thing to do, in my opinion, but I guess a conflict was needed in the hero's heart for story-development reasons. I don't think it was well constructed though.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Of course he asked too much of him - he asked him to offer himself up as a scapegoeat - but that's the crucial point, he asked it, he didn't make Harry do it. Harry had a choice. Dumbledore has always given people a choice. And if he had told him more of the whole story, Harry wouldn't have been able to destroy Voldemort, as it was crucial that he went there believing he was going to die. There was no other way for him to have survived. So withholding information was odne in Harry's interest as well as in the name of the greater good. I think Jo did her best to reconcile the two things, morally oppoiste as they may be.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Absolutely. If Harry is capable of forgiving Snape, which I didn't believe he was, I don't see what would have prevented him from fully forgiving Dumbledore as well.



Last edited by Yoana; October 19th, 2007 at 10:04 am.
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Old October 19th, 2007, 11:12 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I don't think he expected the extent to which Harry would be mistreated. He actually said to Harry he saw him treated worse than expected arriving at Hogwarts in his first year and he told the Dursleys he had expected them to love Harry and treat him as his son. In my opinion this was a reasonable assumption from all Dumbledore knew about Petunia - what was that she had wished to go to Hogwarts too. Even if he expected some bitterness, the way the Dursleys treated was exceptional and I don't think he could expect this.
So I think he did the right with leaving Harry at the Dursleys. Even without keeping him alive for 'the greater good' he kept Harry protected against Voldemort and he kept him away from the fame.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?


Dumbledore always wanted Harry to defeat Voldemort and he knew that Harry had to find an own way. A way Dumbledore couldn't teach Harry because he failed by trying out to find it. So he taught Harry to grow.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?


I think he should have told him latest after Voldemords return in GoF. But which what I said earlier about things Dumbledore never had been able to teach Harry I don't know if the more of time had helped any of them.
In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book.

What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

I wouldn't speak about a team. It's more a mentor - student relation, but where the mentor always knew that the student will raise far more than the mentor ever could.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?


Dumbledore couldn't tell Harry about his mother's childhood friendship to Snape and he couldn't tell him about Snape's love to Lily. He could have expected Snape to treat Harry better or maybe hoped there had been other reasons for Snape to do what he did, but by all what Snape risked Dumbledore had no right to tell Harry what happened. Additionally it hadn't changed anything expect maybe Snape stopping helping Harry out.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?


He knew he would die (by the ring for first), but he didn't tell Harry. He always knew his time was limited. For one part he probably just really couldn't (he died because he still was affected by the ring so much), for another he may wanted Harry to be protected from what could happen if Harry had fallen for the hallows too.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

First of all I believe the reason he questions it so much is his deep love for Dumbledore. He cared a lot for Dumbledore and their relationship and he still missed him. In the following JK showed what happened if one feels hoodwinked. It didn't destroy their relationship nor the love Harry felt, but it did hurt him.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?


After finishing DH I thought he should have given him more basis information like something about Godric's Hollow. Now I believe all these information were related to Dumbledore's past he didn't want Harry to detect yet - again to protect Harry.
Less protection more trust probably had worked out. If Harry hadn't been the one to resist the hallows and defeat Voldemort, I think it hadn't help him to get these information later anyway.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?


Yes, I'm sure they had been. But not before Dumbledore eventually told Harry all about his own past and his own personality like in King's Cross chapter.


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Old October 20th, 2007, 5:30 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Yay! A Harry-Dumbledore thread =)
Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

Yes, Dumbledore should have left Harry with his Aunt and Uncle, because otherwise he would have grown up A) constantly threatened by Death Eaters and B) a fat show-off adorned by the wizarding world... He would have come into Hogwarts and either been expelled or sorted into Slytherin.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?


Dumbledore had decided to keep the secret of the prophecy from Harry, if he had personally contacted Harry from the beginning, Harry would have suspected something. Or Hermione would have suspected for him x)
And Dumbledore wants to keep Harry happy, if he made Harry suspect something, Harry would worry ...

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

Dumbledore should have told Harry from the beginning, at least that there was a prophecy about him and Voldy, maybe not all. Then he should have said everything either after Quirrel's death, the Chamber of Secrets or at the beginning of the triwizard tournement. But he should have definatly told him, and Sirius wouldn't have died *^*
Harry and Dumbledore would have been closer earlier, so basically yes.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Well, there are the obvious qualities: Harry is more fit than Dumbledore, Dumbledore is wiser than Harry ... I think the biggest difference is that Dumbledore thinks carefully before he acts wheras Harry mostley acts on instinct (he would be slaughtered in a chess match ) Yeah, I guess they make a good team, but it doesn't make that much difference. It's good that Dumbledore lets Harry think before giving/correcting/confirming the answer, and that he let him come with him =)

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?


He should have told Harry more of the plan and the truth, but if he broke his promise to Snape, what would Snape's reaction be? Would he betray Dumbledore? Break his promises? ...On the whole, maybe Dumbledore shouldn't have promised so much...?

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?


No, I don't think so. Snape tells Dumbledore how much time he has left to live and Dumbledore never tried to tell Harry the 'Full Story". And wouldn't the ideal time have been when he went to get a different Horcrux, remind him of the danger ...?

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?


It makes him doubt them. He doesn't know how to feel about Dumbledore, about what to do, about how much to trust Dumbledore.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Yes, and yes. He expected Harry to fufill what Dumbledore had asked him blindly, never telling him anything of his past or explaining more than he needed to.
He should definatly told him more of the 'pig-raising', not leaving it up to Snape when he died. For all he knew, Harry might have never, seeing as Snape died. Harry should have known a minimum about the Prophecy, before OotP.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
I think they probabaly would have had one great big argument and then have been good friends.

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Old October 21st, 2007, 9:24 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I don't think it was a decision Dumbledore made lightly, however I do think it was one that he did not regret. Harry had to stay with the Dursleys for many reasons. The most obvious one being the protection Petunia could give Harry that he could not get anywhere else. Everything Dumbledore did was for the Greater Good of wizarding kind, and Harry needed to live in order to defeat Voldemort. Although when Harry first came to Hogwarts Dumbeldore saw that he wasn't the kid he expected him to be, Harry had to go back to the Dursleys until he turned 17. Harry had to stay protected.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
This is such a tough question - and one I have asked myself much since DH. It seemed that in PS/SS it was a setup to get Harry to the mirror, and it was a setup to get Harry into the CoS. And I wish I had a better answer for this, but the only thing I can come up with is that he wanted to test Harry - he knew Harry had to go into the end alone, so he wanted Harry to get used to fighting alone..I think.


In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

I don't think they made a good team - because Dumbledore never truly trusted Harry. Harry trusted that Dumbledore was telling him all he needed to know, Harry trusted Dumbledore. And although Dumbledore may have said he trusted Harry - he didn't. Lack of trust was Dumbledore's flaw if he had one. Which is funny - since everyone always said Dumbledore trusted too much.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No. The way in which Harry found out was appropriate. Harry did not need to know anything about the plan any sooner than he found out.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

It allowed him to see Dumbledore as human - flawed. Not the omniscient mentor who could do no wrong. When Harry knows that Dumbledore is human - it allows him to connect with him.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

He put a lot of stress upon Harry, for the Greater Good. But Harry would have wanted to kill Voldemort, and Dumbledore showed him how to. Even if it wasn't his plan all along.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yes. I see their relationship much like Snape/Dumbledore was. Probably better, and I would have hoped that since Voldemort was gone, that there would be no secret between them.


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Old November 3rd, 2007, 10:16 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?
I think Dumbledore's intentions were good in trying to have Harry grow up somewhere where he would be removed from the fame he garnered after surviving Voldemort's killing curse. But it would have been better if he'd had someone else raise him, someone who would neither spoil him nor abuse him. I don't think he ever realized the extent to which Harry would be mistreated with the Dursleys though, or else I don't think he'd ever have sent Harry to live with them.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?
I got the feeling Dumbledore wanted Harry to make his own way, to create his own destiny. I don't think he wanted to influence Harry to heavily. Instead he gave Harry and his friends a nudge in the right direction, giving them just enough information to allow them to succeed rather than doing everything for them. In this way he may have put them in danger, but he gave them invaluable experience for future dangers. And I don't think he would ever have stood by and watched Harry die if he could help it, given how much Dumbledore cared for Harry.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?
It's hard to say, but I think he might have been ready to hear it sometime during GoF. I'm not sure if their relationship would have been much different if he'd told Harry sooner - Harry was angry at him in OotP for not telling him, but he gets over it in HBP.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?
I think they make a very good team. Dumbledore is extremely wise and has a lot of experience, and Harry has a lot of determination and is excellent at adaptation and improvisation in dangerous situations. Dumbledore's patience and wisdom serve to balance Harry's impulsiveness to action and his ability to adapt and think on his feet.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?
I don't know, it's hard to say what would have happened if Harry had known more of the plan too soon. It's possible that things wouldn't have happened in a favorable manner if he'd known too much too soon.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?
I think he might have told him most of the story of the ring. But Dumbledore didn't want Harry to be tempted by the Hallows as he was, which is why he planned things such that the discovery of the knowledge of the Hallows would be slowed down by Hermione. I'm not sure Dumbledore would have told Harry the truth about the Stone, as I think this would have been the greatest temptation for Harry given that his greatest desire is to see his parents.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?
I think it shows that he thought very highly of Dumbledore and would have been hurt if Dumbledore betrayed him in any way.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?
Dumbledore knew that Harry's heart was pure and that he would find the strength to handle what he was asking of him. Dumbledore likely felt guilty asking that much of Harry without telling him the truth sooner, and perhaps he should have told Harry some more of the truth before he died, but as I mentioned above, there's no telling if events could have turned out differently if Harry had known too much too soon.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
I'm sure they would have been. Though Harry might have been disappointed in what Dumbledore was like in his youth, I do believe their relationship would have transcended that.


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Old November 5th, 2007, 5:52 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

No, he should not have left Harry with the Dursleys. If Harry could get by with two months of protection after he started Hogwarts and sometimes only a few weeks then, DD should have made better living arrangements for Harry.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

Because he wanted to test Harry's skills. And I think Harry would have fared far better if he had the correct information with him instead of fighting blind.


Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

At the end of First year. I believ so yes. Harry would have trusted DD far more and would not have taken matters into his own hand if he had firm trust in the fact that DD would never hide anything from him.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Yes I believe so. DD loved Harry like his very own and I am sure Harry resiprocated.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

No, he should not have betrayed the trust of Snape, but he should have understood that it was imperitive for Harry and Snape to understand each other and for Snape to start seeing beyond James Potter. To that extent I feel that DD should have asked permission from Snape to at the very least outline some facts for Harry's better understanding.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

No, I believ he would not have. I t is this desire for secrecy at all times that has led to DD making serious mistakes.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

Harry felt betrayed imo.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Yes he did, especially as he never told Harry anything. He let Harry fight everything on his own and Harry was very lucky to survive and win the war.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yes, they would have and would have even become closer as each had a genuine affection for the other. But Harry would not have trusted him completely and would have questioned him extensively every time



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Old November 5th, 2007, 7:09 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

I am not certain if Dumbledore realized the extent to which Harry would be mistreated. However, Dumbledore is entirely culpable for not checking up on Harry in that regard, realizing the problem and correcting it by whatever means.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

In my opinion, Dumbledore acted irreponsible with respect to Harry while he was at Hogwarts. He knew, or should have known he was curious and adventurous like his father and yet, he didn't keep a close eye on him at all. He allowed Umbridge and Snape to speak to him and treat him negatively and Harry wandered off to discover the 3 headed monster, the chamber, the shrieking shack, the DOM, and more - all under Dumbledore's nose. In my opinion, Dumbledore did not handle that well at all.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

I agree with Dumbledore. He made a huge mistake of not disclosing the prophecy to Harry - which concerned him prior to OOTP. Harry should have been told upon venturing into the wizard world.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Dumbledore used the time to further manipulate Harry. He gave him information that would prove useful and just enough knowledge to set him up for the traumas he encountered in DH. From the non-disclosure of Snape's status (including the mercy killing info), to the Hallows, to the suspected horocruxes, to his plans to leave items in his will, to the books he wished Hermione to have, to knowledge about the Elder Wand, to Voldemort's hunt for it, to his suspicion that Voldemort would take over the Ministry and Hogwarts, to information about his parents and their close friends - well Dumbledore was just a huge bag of non-disclosure and all of it should have been disclosed imo. It was material to Harry directly and to Harry's efforts, and Harry's decisions. Thus, it was really misrepresentation, misconduct, fraud, self-dealing and within that conduct, lying via omission and half-truths. Imo, that is no way to treat a hero if you are on his side. There was no team or balance, imo, it was all Dumbledore the manipulator and Harry the puppet.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth? He didn't have to mention Snape's emotions for Lily. But he should have told Harry about the arranged killing and to continue to trust Snape. Plus he could have told him that Snape had been friends with his mother - that was not part of what Dumbledore promised not to tell - and he could have indicated that Snape had been a good friend of her's and remained so. Harry understood such friendships and the honor that goes with them and realized it did not have to include romantic feelings. He had that relationship with Hermione.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I seriously doubt it.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

I think he recognized Dumbledore for the manipulative, secretive and fallable person that he was in the end. Dumbledore, however, had always shown Harry kindness, affection, compassion and love. He was patient, a mentor in ways and at times a mute sounding board. Thus Harry had all of those good things to weigh against the flaws that Harry understood Dumbledore to have and the way in which Dumbledore had betrayed his trust. That, together with the fact that everything worked out, made it easy to overlook Dumbledore's less than favorable side. What I would expect was that the pure unadulterated love and unchallenged respect would be gone, but replaced with a normal level of love and appreciation, together with a lesser amount of respect. However, Harry was very odd in that respect and it is possible he blindly ignored everything unpleasant in regard to Dumbledore and concentrated on the good and the love that had formed between them. I would not be surprised to find that was the case - as abnormal as I feel that is to human nature.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

Yes. See above.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yes.


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Old November 5th, 2007, 8:36 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

Well, the Dursley's were Harry's closest relatives so, yes, he had to leave Harry there. Harry didn't have a perfect childhood, he suffered more than a child should suffer and that's terrible, but that's the world. Like Rowling said: Dumbledore thinks there are lot of lessons in life... maybe this was one of them.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?


Giving Harry the Cloak was almost like saying: Go out and sneak around the castel and find adventures... Well, this was something Harry had to learn the hard way or never. I have always found the first book just like a test. Like dumbledore was testing the Trio, see if they could do it. He knew that Quirrell was evil and he knew that Harry would go after him. But I don't think that he wanted Harry to go down in the Chamber of secrets. But in POA it is very clear that Dumbledore wants them to free the hippogriff and find Sirius... Well, Harry had to learn it the hard way and Dumbledore knew that. And I really think that he kept a really close eye on him, closer than Harry ever knew.

Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

Dumbledore made a mistake... but I don't think that he should have told him until afther the GoF, in the beginning of the OotP or something. It was important for Harry to know the truth. If he had known earlier... well, I dont know if their relationship would have been different, probably...

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Harry's hot head vs. Dumbledore who is always calm... Harry respected Dumbledore, who was so important for Harry because he always had the answeres, he could save him and so on... But Dumbledore adored how selfless he was, how strong and not powerseeking. Dumbledore had finally someone he cared about and had earned his trust. They made an excellent team and Harry could've learnt lots from him and vice versa.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

A promise is a promise and he promised to never reveal the best of him. It is hard for dumbledore, always when Harry asks him why on earth do he trust dumbledore, DD needs always some time to think. He wants to tell harry, but a promise... is a promise. Dumbledore told Harry the truth and the plan. When he said: "I am going to tell you everything"... well he did. Just not that evening. It was a big jigsaw and Harry had to put it together in parts because he didn't have all the parts to begin with. But in the end, Snape and DD had told him everything.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I don't think so. DD would think that it was Harry's greatest weakness: See his parents and Sirius again... So tell him about the stone... nada.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

He is well... a little dissappointed because he left him with a task without much instructions. It's just like: Find the locket, the cup and destroy it and then kill nagini and then can you kill Voldemort. OR well, that's what it looks like. But he leaves HArry with information about Voldemort, how he thinks and how he acts. That is what helps Harry to make right decissions, he know how Voldemort acts.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

He told him the truth. Just not all at once.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?
Much more. They'd have become family.


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Old November 5th, 2007, 9:04 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated?

Yes he did -- he did the best thing that he could have done at that time. Even if there would have been a perfectly good wizarding family he could have been left with, he wouldn't have grown up the way he did living with the Dursleys'. Even though he was mistreated -- he turned out to be a decent person. He wouldn't have necessarily turned out that way if he would have been raised in the wizarding world.




Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strengths while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact?

He wanted to see how he'd do in dangerous situations -- how he would fare in them. Obviously that wasn't the best way for him to have handled it. He should have told Harry more about what he would be facing and that kind of thing. Interacted more with him, so to speak, it would have taken off some of the stress that Harry was under.




Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier?

Well he could have told him about it at the end of POA, after he was done telling him about the effects of "Priori Incantem" -- that would have probably would have been one of the best times for him to have told Harry about it, in my opinion.

Maybe it would have. But due to the situation, it most likely wouldn't have.




In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team?

Well they're both rather stubborn , and they go and try to figure out the truth about things; get to the bottom of them.

But for the most part, Dumbledore tended to use Harry in HBP. That made me sick, seeing him act that way -- SO manipulative *shivers* . There was one scene in particular that made me feel that way... when he takes Harry along with him to Slughorn's house to try and convince him to come back and work at Hogwarts. Just seeing him use Harry in that way (putting him on display -- for lack of a better choice of words), literally made me want to vomit .

I really started to dislike this side of him -- and it made me dislike his overall character, sadly , as well. It wasn't really until the end of DH, that he earned some of my respect for him back. Once I found out that he really did care for Harry -- I liked him again (I still don't like that side of him though -- the manipulative side).




Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth?

Nope -- he would have put both Snape and the Order in harm's way, if he went and did that. Voldemort would have loved to see something like that happen -- he would have used it to manipulate Snape most likely.




Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone?

I don't think that he would have ever have told him. He was raised to be secretive and that really became a big part of his nature.




In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore?

It made him feel bitter about him, doubt him. He wasn't sure of whether to still trust what Dumbledore did. It made him feel angry at him, for not telling him the truth about certain things and leaving him in the dark for the most part.




Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth?

In someways, he did -- he asked a lot of him. He left him a mountain of a task to do -- find the Horcruxes and destroy them and then kill Voldemort. He probably should have, just to have lessened the burden on him somewhat.




Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived?

Yea, they probably would have been.


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  #17  
Old November 29th, 2007, 5:09 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Rereading DH, and also SS/PS, has really shown me how much their relationship changed - and how important it was. Dumbledore was one of Harry's "surrogate fathers", IMO. As we see in "The Prince's Tale", Dumbledore was asking about / etc Harry from the beginning. He guided him through the process of learning how to fight Voldemort - starting with allowing him to face Quirrell in SS/PS, and going all the way to horcruxes and hallows. To me, I think it's clear that Harry was right all the way back in SS/PS - Dumbledore did want to give Harry the chance. It told Dumbledore a lot about Harry, too - he was able to get the stone from the mirror, a feat that even Dumbledore himself may not have been able to do once he put the stone in the mirror.

Going forward, Dumbledore kept up the training. I suspect he knew what Harry would try and do in CoS - to find the Chamber - and I further suspect he even knew that the Parseltongue ability would aid his hunt. I highly doubt, though, that he wanted Harry to confront the basilisk and DiaryMort alone - that, I suspect, Dumbledore may have thought was a bit too much.

Harry would not have been able to complete his quest to defeat Voldemort without both Dumbledore's research and Dumbledore's teaching. I don't think that Harry was a pawn by any means - he was a willing participant - but it did take Dumbledore's scheming to make it all happen. And, the realization of Dumbledore that Harry was the better man - he was more pure of heart and unwilling to pursue power for "evil" reasons than Dumbledore - was the key thing that Dumbledore learned from the relationship. This meant that he could entrust the wildly powerful hallows to Harry, and not worry about Harry trying to unite them in the way that Grindelwald and Dumbledore had dreamed about. Harry abandoning two of the three hallows showed this - he didn't care for the power, he only wanted to do what was right.

Um...stopping here before this becomes a true essay


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  #18  
Old November 30th, 2007, 5:54 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Did Dumbledore do the right thing leaving Harry with the Dursleys? Did he realize the extent to which Harry would be mistreated? Oooh, that's a hard one to answer. As far as their treatment and abusing Harry, absolutely, without a doubt, no. He messed up in that case. There would have been families like the Weasleys who would have welcomed the Child with Open Arms, loved and adored him. However at the same time, they may have given him that Special Treatment like some people do to a Child with a Disability. They begin to make allowances "because he's this/that" and pretty soon they've raised an "emotional cripple"(sorry for the choice of words) in that they talk and act a certain way and expect people to make exceptions for them "because". I also think IF Harry had been raised by The Weasleys or another Family and treated as special, he would have grown a huge head.

Dumbledore allows Harry to grow and test his strength while keeping a close eye on him when he comes to Hogwarts. Why did he choose to observe rather than interact? To be honest, I'm not sure what went through his mind. I think part of it was he wanted to teach Harry that Mommy wasn't always going to be there to tell the mean kids to leave him alone. I realize that sounds silly, but seriously, I think Ablus wanted Harry to learn to rely on himself. He wanted Harry to learn it was okay to say "No, thank you, I need to do this myself." and NOT feel guilty, like he was hurting other's feelings. Even if one of them did walk away hurt, Albus knew Harry couldn't feel guilt for telling them no and being forceful/sneaky/mean about it. He had to learn to risk having people think "what a Jerk" and let it roll off him. Plus, by observing Harry grow as a Wizard, Harry also found "Oh my God, I can do this, I ACTUALLY DID it." You know, that thrill we all get from finally overcoming a fear, or hesitation. Where if Albus had held his hand and spoken to Harry like he was two, it would seem scarier, but "Mommy's here so it will be okay". The final reason is, Albus wanted Harry to learn you try, you fall off a horse and have a bruised ego and behind. Get back on the horse.
Dumbledore tells us he made a mistake in not sharing the Prophecy with Harry until the end of OotP. When would Harry have been ready to hear it? Would their relationship have had more time to progress if Dumbledore had told Harry the truth earlier? This is where I'm on the fense. No teenager likes being treated like a kid and "well, if we ignore him, he'll eventually get away". "we can talk about him, but if we use general words, he won't know". They do NOT like learning the truth has been held from them because they were "too young" or "too sick/deecate" or "I thought I would wait until I thought you were mature enough to handle it". Unfortunately, the truth came after his biggest confidant, Sirius was killed. I honestly feel that Harry should have learned about it after the events of GOF--or at the beginning of the Fifth year WITH Sirius in the room to offer support and a person to HONESTLY answer questions. He was only one of two Adults who treated Harry like an equal. It would have possibly have helped Harry and Dumbledore build a stronger relationship. He would have been forced to talk to Harry, etc.

In HBP, Harry and Dumbledore spend the most time together of any book. What qualities do they find in each other that balance each other? Do they make a good team? Their trust in each other, their wanting to get this whole thing with Voldemort done and over with. On some levels they did make a good team, in other ways, I'm not so sure.

Should Dumbledore have broken his promise to Snape and told Harry more of the plan and the truth? I don't think Dumbledore should have broken his promise to Snape about his love for Lily. Snape had been betrayed by so-called Friends and the people who were supposed to love and accept him unconditionally. If Albus had told or shown Harry WHY he trusted Severus Snape 100%, it would have broken their friendship. I do think Albus did become a Friend to Snape. Snape slowly learned to trust him. He could be who he REALLY was and not worry about Albus making a mockery of him. If Albus had told Harry the truth, about their plans, he would have struck a low blow to Snape. Harry needed to learn the truth in his own way and own time. He had to learn it from Severus himself(if he had lived) in his own way. For Albus to go BEHIND Severus' back and tell the truth would be stabbing Snape in the back. Plus Albus needed to maintain that trust in Severus to ensure Harry's safety, etc.

Dumbledore tells Harry several times that he will tell him "the full story" of the ring? Would he have done so? Would he have included the truth about the stone? That one I'm not sure of. Again, I believe Harry HAD to discover the full story on his own.

In DH, Harry questions his relationship with Dumbledore more than any other. What does this questioning do to his feelings about Dumbledore? I think Harry realized that Dumbledore was fallable as any other Man. He learned Albus had made some big mistakes and had some secrets he kept from people. Harry learned Albus wasn't this perfect Iconic figure he thought he was. It's kind of like a kid/Adult hearing and seeing their favourite Singer/Athlete being caught doing something horrible. You think that because they sing beautiful love songs, have a great voice, their perfect, always smiling, an all-around good person. Then they do something that is the complete opposite to their "Public" persona/image. You learn that they're just a person who has a great voice, can land the perfect jump, etc, but other than that, they're a Human being and aren't perfect, infallable beings. Harry's questions made Dumbledore all the more human, put him on an equal footing to Harry. They made Harry grow up and rely on himself more and rely more on Hermione and Ron and learned to let others in and not isolate himself.

Did Dumbledore ask too much of Harry? Should he have told him more of the truth? In some ways I think Dumbledore DID treat Harry like a Pig going to Slaughter. Snape was right with that statement and Dumbledore needed that verbal slap-in-the-face.

Would Harry and Dumbledore have been friends if they had both lived? Again, it's hard to say. I definitely think Harry would have a little more regard for Albus in that he makes mistakes like any other person. Given time for Harry to absorb and accept things, I think he would have realized Albus was like a Grand Father to him and been close in that manner.



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  #19  
Old December 1st, 2007, 3:51 am
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Here is something I am curious about. Dumbledore knew that Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul and eventually had to die in order to bring about Voldemort's defeat. Do you think that he was rather careless about Harry's fate, letting him try to save the philosopher's/sorceror's stone for instance, because he knew Harry was eventually going to have to die anyway? Did he allow Harry to be tormented by Umbridge because he knew Harry would need to be able to recognize true evil, not just the evil that comes with a Death Eater's mark?

Just a thought - it must have been rather hard for Dumbledore to know that Harry would have to die. It wasn't until the gleam of triumph, in my opinion, that there was a chance that Harry could make it through alive. I would think that Dumbledore would try to keep emotionally detached from Harry, so he wouldn't feel the sense of loss he felt when he lost other loved ones. But, I think Dumbledore found it hard to avoid forming an attachment to Harry.
DH-Ch-33-The Prince's Tale, pg 679, UD ed"Other teachers report that the boy is modest, likeble, and reasonably talented. Personally, I find him an engaging child."
"Engaging child" sounds like he is already starting to like Harry.

Dumbledore talks a lot about the flaw in his plan in Order of the Phoenix.
OotP-Ch. 33, pg 838-839-US ed"Do you see, Harry? Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into the trap I had foreseen. that I had told myself I could avoid, that I must avoid."
"I don't -"
"I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act.
"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have - and I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined - not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed that I would have such a person on my hands.

So many things in this speech seem to carry a deeper meaning now that we know the whole story.


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  #20  
Old December 1st, 2007, 1:13 pm
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Re: Harry and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanBones111 View Post
Here is something I am curious about. Dumbledore knew that Harry had a piece of Voldemort's soul and eventually had to die in order to bring about Voldemort's defeat. Do you think that he was rather careless about Harry's fate, letting him try to save the philosopher's/sorceror's stone for instance, because he knew Harry was eventually going to have to die anyway? Did he allow Harry to be tormented by Umbridge because he knew Harry would need to be able to recognize true evil, not just the evil that comes with a Death Eater's mark?

Just a thought - it must have been rather hard for Dumbledore to know that Harry would have to die. It wasn't until the gleam of triumph, in my opinion, that there was a chance that Harry could make it through alive. I would think that Dumbledore would try to keep emotionally detached from Harry, so he wouldn't feel the sense of loss he felt when he lost other loved ones. But, I think Dumbledore found it hard to avoid forming an attachment to Harry.
DH-Ch-33-The Prince's Tale, pg 679, UD ed"Other teachers report that the boy is modest, likeble, and reasonably talented. Personally, I find him an engaging child."
"Engaging child" sounds like he is already starting to like Harry.

Dumbledore talks a lot about the flaw in his plan in Order of the Phoenix.
OotP-Ch. 33, pg 838-839-US ed"Do you see, Harry? Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into the trap I had foreseen. that I had told myself I could avoid, that I must avoid."
"I don't -"
"I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act.
"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have - and I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined - not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed that I would have such a person on my hands.

So many things in this speech seem to carry a deeper meaning now that we know the whole story.
I think Dumbledore didn't know Harry would have to die, until the later years. He only truly discovers LV's knowledge of Horcruxes in HBP.


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