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Batman 3 - The Dark Knight Rises



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  #21  
Old March 13th, 2010, 4:04 am
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Re: Batman 3

I've read the above posts with interest, and primarily I can say that I trust Nolan. I never thought he could do good things with Two Face, but he blew me out of the water and showed me who was boss. He tackles so many issues with a finesse that astonishes, and the weakened, hurt and demeaned Batman has a lot to fight through; this likely means that he will come out of hiding to deal with a new villain, who will have to be truly spectacular in order to beat out the wonderfully psychotic Joker.


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  #22  
Old March 13th, 2010, 4:26 am
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Re: Batman 3

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Originally Posted by DML1991 View Post
The Penguin... Phillip Seymour Hoffman could make it work, but really, I want to see the film avoid this. Great villian who could provide an interesting social commentary that adds to other themes Nolan's take on Batman has explored, especially in The Dark Knight, but the character himself adds nothing to Batman's character arc. Even in TDK where Bruce/Batman had less focus of development than Begins had (though it essentially is the supreme Batman film in that regard, it's just Begins dedicated an entire film to developing his origin), Two-Face and the Joker both added alot to Batman's character arc. Harvey Dent was the result of everything Batman was trying to achieve, to counter the Batman wanna-be's who were messing what he was trying to do up, but then his fall into Two Face is everything Batman feared of the city. Dent's rise and fall was absolutely essential to Batman going into the film and walking out of it. Where the Joker, like Dent had his coin that half was burned on giving him two choice, the Joker was the blackened side of the coin where Batman was the untarnished side. There's so much the two villians added to Batman's arc, where I feel the Penguin would add nothing, Catwoman certainly would... the Riddler, an interesting villian, but I don't see the connections it would create on the level that Nolan was able to create in The Dark Knight. These villians would be like Scarecrow in Begins, they would add to the story somewhat (or be plot devices), but not to Batman's arc.
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Catwoman... in my ideal world, she would be cast, though she really isn't a villian (there's too much gray in the character to be a villian or hero/anti-hero). Bruce has lost Rachel, develop Selina losing someone that meant something to her if not a passionate romantic friend. Selina is a character who needs a real actress to play her and not a sexual idol, someone who has real acting chops, because the character's ambiguity is particularly complex when handled by the right hands. The portrayal of the character in The Long Halloween, Dark Victory and Hush (all incidently being written by Jeph Loeb) is without a doubt the best I've read of the character.
I'm not keen on The Penguin appearing in the next film either; I don't think he fits. I've never found him an interesting character anyway, though, outside of Batman Returns. My continuing love for that movie is also probably the biggest reason I don't want to see Catwoman in the next movie; I have no problems with the character, and although Michelle Pfeiffer's performance is etched in my mind, I realize she doesn't own the role. It just doesn't feel like the right time to revisit that character now, even if I can't put my finger on why. The Riddler, though, that's a character I have really wanted to see, in what's now the third part of a trilogy. I've been eager to see Nolan's take on that character since I saw Memento years ago; Following, Memento, The Prestige...Christopher Nolan makes great cinematic puzzles, and that's why I don't think there's a director out there better suited to take on The Riddler. It really feels to me that the time has come for a new take on that villain, and it would obviously be completely different from Jim Carrey's in Batman Forever. I would like to see Jude Law in the role; he reminds me strongly of the version seen in Jeph Loeb & Jim Lee's Hush, and to me he has the right intelligence, arrogance, and charm for the part.


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  #23  
Old March 13th, 2010, 4:28 am
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Re: Batman 3

If they need to explain where the Joker is in Batman III, they should do it by showing grainy footage of him (played by a similar looking actor in the make up) briefly from an Arkham Asylum video patient file or something similar, which will indicate to the audience that the Joker is safely in custody, then get on with the movie.


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  #24  
Old March 13th, 2010, 4:41 am
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Re: Batman 3

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Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
I'm not keen on The Penguin appearing in the next film either; I don't think he fits. I've never found him an interesting character anyway, though, outside of Batman Returns. My continuing love for that movie is also probably the biggest reason I don't want to see Catwoman in the next movie; I have no problems with the character, and although Michelle Pfeiffer's performance is etched in my mind, I realize she doesn't own the role. It just doesn't feel like the right time to revisit that character now, even if I can't put my finger on why. The Riddler, though, that's a character I have really wanted to see, in what's now the third part of a trilogy. I've been eager to see Nolan's take on that character since I saw Memento years ago; Following, Memento, The Prestige...Christopher Nolan makes great cinematic puzzles, and that's why I don't think there's a director out there better suited to take on The Riddler. It really feels to me that the time has come for a new take on that villain, and it would obviously be completely different from Jim Carrey's in Batman Forever. I would like to see Jude Law in the role; he reminds me strongly of the version seen in Jeph Loeb & Jim Lee's Hush, and to me he has the right intelligence, arrogance, and charm for the part.
Jude Law would be perfect for this piece of artwork from Hush...



Actually, I take back what I said (partly due to vampiricduck's post actually, and especially your's), The Riddler would definitely work as a villian. On a level of how he plays games using the media, and would require Batman having to use his detective wit's. The Riddler could be a perfect villian for the film.

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Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack View Post
If they need to explain where the Joker is in Batman III, they should do it by showing grainy footage of him (played by a similar looking actor in the make up) briefly from an Arkham Asylum video patient file or something similar, which will indicate to the audience that the Joker is safely in custody, then get on with the movie.
I know what you're saying, but I don't like the thought of "safely in custody", because if the Joker is going to be safely in custody, it's because he wants it to appear that way. The Joker is a smart man, no idea just how intelligent he is, certainly an insane level of intelligence that far extends the intelligence of today. He's never going to be safely in custody, that's betrayal to the character (like it would have been ending TDK with the Joker being arrested after the police transport sequence, when his plans far extended past that... as we saw in the middle and last third of the film). He's only going to let himself appear that way because he wants it to.



Last edited by DML1991; March 13th, 2010 at 4:46 am.
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  #25  
Old March 13th, 2010, 5:44 am
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Re: Batman 3

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I know what you're saying, but I don't like the thought of "safely in custody", because if the Joker is going to be safely in custody, it's because he wants it to appear that way. The Joker is a smart man, no idea just how intelligent he is, certainly an insane level of intelligence that far extends the intelligence of today. He's never going to be safely in custody, that's betrayal to the character (like it would have been ending TDK with the Joker being arrested after the police transport sequence, when his plans far extended past that... as we saw in the middle and last third of the film). He's only going to let himself appear that way because he wants it to.
They have three options.

1- Do the thing I said, or otherwise mention that he's in custody
2- Imply that the character died.
3- Ignore him completely and make no references to him.


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  #26  
Old March 13th, 2010, 6:18 am
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Re: Batman 3

It would be interesting to see a Joker reprise. I don't think the producers would care that it's not Heath Ledger, but whoever took his place would probably feel woefully inadequate. I didn't even think Ledger had it in him, but wow, that was one of the best villain roles I've seen in any film, let alone comic book franchises. On that same note, no matter who plays the next major villain, he or she is going to have big shoes to fill. While the story ran a bit long in TDK, Nolan's set such a high standard for himself with both Ledger and Bale's performances. (I feel I should add, Bale has done a great job, though a monkey could probably do his job. :P )

Having thought about it a little more, I think I would enjoy seeing Johnny Depp's portrayal as Riddler as was suggested by AldeberanBlack earlier, but would he do it? Jude Law would be interesting, but I don't know if he could do it. I don't really know enough about the old comics, but wouldn't Harely Quinn (sp?) be a part of the new story, or was she not really that important? Anarky seems like he would bring with him political themes that Nolan subtly liked playing with in the last two films.


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Old March 13th, 2010, 11:20 am
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Re: Batman 3

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Originally Posted by DML1991 View Post
Jude Law would be perfect for this piece of artwork from Hush...



Actually, I take back what I said (partly due to vampiricduck's post actually, and especially your's), The Riddler would definitely work as a villian. On a level of how he plays games using the media, and would require Batman having to use his detective wit's. The Riddler could be a perfect villian for the film.
Yeah, Jude Law would be another good choice but I still hope it's Depp. To be honest I kinda shared the same concern as you...that the The Riddler would appear too similar to The Joker, as they both like to play games and whatnot. But AldeberanBlack's post about other movies they could draw inspiration from swayed me to think The Riddler could be a really awesome villain and it looks like it's what many want...

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/11/09...-votes-are-in/

Hey, can we get our own poll for this thread? I have to ask a mod to do that for us, right? Well, aside from the movies I don't have much knowlege of Batman other than watching the cartoon when I was a kid. I've never read the comics, so maybe one of you can help me out with a list of villains to choose from.

Personally I absolutely do not want a re-cast of The Joker. I do feel it would be an insult to Heath's memory. The role should be retired...you know, like how they retire jersey numbers in sports? Anyways, I swear I was reading an interview the other day where one of the Nolan brothers or someone else closely related to the film said something along the lines of "the plan was to continue the Joker's story in the next film, but obviously we can't do that now after Heath's death" I dunno, maybe I'm imagining this because I haven't been able to find the article again...


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  #28  
Old March 13th, 2010, 12:15 pm
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Re: Batman 3

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Personally I absolutely do not want a re-cast of The Joker. I do feel that would be an insult to Heath's memory.
Well, no, it wouldn't. Actors do a role and move on. Those who don't stagnate. That said, I really didn't like the interpretation in TDK.

The Joker's existance can be easily referenced (if need be) without having to go into intense detail.


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  #29  
Old March 13th, 2010, 12:42 pm
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Re: Batman 3

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Well, aside from the movies I don't have much knowlege of Batman other than watching the cartoon when I was a kid. I've never read the comics, so maybe one of you can help me out with a list of villains to choose from.
The Animated Series is probably the best representation of the GN's around. If you get a chance, I'd recommend going through several episodes to get a better taste of the villians and the range they present to Nolan's films.

If you got to read some of the GN's, well, that would be a different story. The Long Halloween, Dark Victory and Hush are all great GN's as ensemble pieces using the villians.

Alot of ideas on the villians are here, but looking through it, the villians outside of the Riddler and Catwoman just don't grab out to me.
Quote:
Personally I absolutely do not want a re-cast of The Joker. I do feel that would be an insult to Heath's memory. The role should be retired...you know, like how they retire jersey numbers in sports?
But Ledger doesn't own the character, just like Richard Harris didn't own Dumbledore either. It's unfortunate, as Ledger took the character places, but his interpretation was a original interpretation in itself. The character is always open to different interpretations, as it's always evolving, even in the same franchise stories.

I can really see it, The Riddler as a main villian, something Batman has never seen before on this level, he goes to Arkham to try to figure it out with the Joker's assistance, which itself causes emotional and mental turmoil for Batman.

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I don't really know enough about the old comics, but wouldn't Harely Quinn (sp?) be a part of the new story, or was she not really that important?
Good suggestion on Quinn, she's the Joker's wife of some sorts in the comics, it'd be interesting to see a demented version of the character (just like Ledger played on the demented qualities of the character in it's humor, look, and mannerisms). Don't know how she'd work next to TDK, but it'd be interesting if they managed to do her as one of the villians.


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  #30  
Old March 13th, 2010, 12:58 pm
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Re: Batman 3

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But Ledger doesn't own the character, just like Richard Harris didn't own Dumbledore either. It's unfortunate, as Ledger took the character places, but his interpretation was a original interpretation in itself. The character is always open to different interpretations, as it's always evolving, even in the same franchise stories.
True, but athletes don't "own" their numbers either. It's something that is done out of respect for a great performer Obviously the Dumbledore situation was quite different because the character was an integral part of the rest of the series...it was necessary to re-cast. But with The Joker, that's not the case...it's not a necessity. Also, I'm not saying nobody should ever portray The Joker again. I mean of course nobody will probably be able to top Ledger's performance but I figure there'll be more Batman films in the future (which might include Joker) if they continue to prove profitable...just not ones directed by Nolan. I simply don't want to see The Joker re-cast for this "trilogy"


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  #31  
Old March 14th, 2010, 11:38 am
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Re: Batman 3

I really enjoyed seeing Jude Law on Saturday Night Live tonight. Now my mind's thinking about what kind of villain he'd be in the next Batman, lol, thanks for that AcidPops. XD


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  #32  
Old March 15th, 2010, 8:45 am
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Re: Batman 3

I can see someone talking to The Joker in Arkham but not him playing a very active role in the film. I really think it would upset far too many fans if they re-cast him and then he went on to play a big part. I don't think they need to bring him back anyway.

I'd personally like to see Anarky as the next villain, but from a commercial POV I think they'll go for a better known Batman baddie. Harely Quinn would be great, but I think she would fill a void similar to what Catwoman could do, except Catwoman coul double as Batman's love interest.


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  #33  
Old March 15th, 2010, 9:37 am
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Re: Batman 3

Ew, another love interest? I thought Nolan was playing with a really fine line with love interests already. I don't know if he'd go that route, but it could be interesting. No doubt his Catwoman interpretation would be interesting though, and Batman seems to have a traditional problem with seduction. I wonder how he'd tackle it.


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  #34  
Old March 15th, 2010, 11:16 am
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Re: Batman 3

Well, they need a female character. There were only two (besides Gary Oldman's wife) in TDK from memory, one's dead and the other turned out to be a baddie. Harley Quinn and Catwoman seem like obvious choices IMO. I would prefer Harley because as mentioned by someone before, Catwoman has been done a lot (and rarely well, especially recently) but I just can't see them having a movie like this with no love interest for Batman. I'd love for them to try, but looking at other superhero movies; Spiderman, Superman, Xmen etc, there's always a love interest for the main character/s.


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  #35  
Old March 15th, 2010, 12:50 pm
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Re: Batman 3

I'd rather no love interest as it is more in keeping with Bats; the relationships always end badly.

If they want a strong female character they can give Barbara Gordon a run. It depend of course how much they want to play with the timeline.


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  #36  
Old March 15th, 2010, 1:10 pm
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Re: Batman 3

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want a love interest. I personally couldn't care less. It's just the direction I can see them going.


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  #37  
Old March 16th, 2010, 12:45 pm
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Re: Batman 3

I'd prefer no "love interests" either.

Not every movie needs one.

And they are always predictable when it comes to Batman.


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  #38  
Old March 16th, 2010, 10:40 pm
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Re: Batman 3

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Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack View Post
I'd prefer no "love interests" either.

Not every movie needs one.

And they are always predictable when it comes to Batman.
I don't mind much myself. I agree not every movie needs one (there are numerous movies with just male characters) but I don't find 'em predictable...at least I didn't in TDK. In fact, I was shocked that they killed her off so early!


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  #39  
Old April 30th, 2010, 10:34 pm
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Re: Batman 3

It's official.

Good release date, that puts it 4 years after TDK, and a little over 2 years from now. Considering they've been working on the script for the past several months (of knowledge, at least the past 4 months, probably longer), and they'll likely start filming between January and April next year, that gives them plenty of time to produce a refined and tight script (like TDK's script was). We can start hearing some official castings too, as Ledger was cast as the Joker in July of 2006, two years prior to the release of TDK and even before Nolan's The Prestige was released.


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Old May 1st, 2010, 2:46 am
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Re: Batman 3

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Good release date, that puts it 4 years after TDK, and a little over 2 years from now. Considering they've been working on the script for the past several months (of knowledge, at least the past 4 months, probably longer), and they'll likely start filming between January and April next year, that gives them plenty of time to produce a refined and tight script (like TDK's script was). We can start hearing some official castings too, as Ledger was cast as the Joker in July of 2006, two years prior to the release of TDK and even before Nolan's The Prestige was released.
It´s a lot of time to wait, but if the film is as awesome as the previous ones it will definetly be worth the waiting. I believe it´s good they are taking their time, rushing films it´s never good.This time frame kind of allows them to get a good plot that wraps it up properly like they had said they wanted to.


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