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View Poll Results: If you could choose one of the Marauders' Animagus forms... | |||
Dog |
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126 | 55.26% |
Stag |
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41 | 17.98% |
Rat |
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3 | 1.32% |
Animagi are not as cool as werewolves! |
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20 | 8.77% |
Obligatory pony option |
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38 | 16.67% |
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll |
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#41
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
I'm really surprised that Peter was able to avoid detection for over a year. I always saw Dumbledore as someone who more often than not performed Legilimency whenever he spoke to people. A habit if you like.
Even assuming that Dumbledore doesn't use it always, Dumbledore knew that someone close to the Potters was leaking information. I can only assume that Dumbledore didn't believe Peter to be capable of it or maybe Voldemort performed some sort of charm that would help him avoid detection. |
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#42
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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![]() Don’t get me wrong I don’t like what Peter did, I don’t think it was a great thing for him to have done but I can see why he might have made the choice he did – that’s all I’m saying. ![]() Quote:
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He was I think in a very lonely position from the moment he was targeted Quote:
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I suspect Peter is actually both quite intelligent and not as awful at magic as some characters have suggested. His plot to throw the blame onto Sirius was a accomplished one and it worked – so he can’t be that dumb. And he performed the spell to resurrect Voldermort – which I doubt was one that was easy to cast. Which reminds me of the fact that he managed to cut off his own hand – I wonder was that brave? I’m not sure I could have done it and I know people talk about someone cutting off a limb to escape a vehicle wreck in a manner that implies admiration of courage. If its not courage what is it? Just wondering? ![]() Quote:
While he was incorrect to suggest he had no choice his erstwhile friend was equally wrong to suggest that choosing death was a simple and easy decision – it simply isn’t. Quote:
I agree these options may have existed but again I repeat they are not easy choices and this one relies on the fact the Peter on top of everything else believed that the marauders would have understood. I’m not sure he believed that.
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#43
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
Peter cutting off his hand for Voldemort is an incredible thing. He had to do it himself. I can't even begin to imagine how dreadful it would have been.
Regarding how Peter initially became a spy, IMO Peter had a huge advantage being a rat. He should have agreed to Vodemort and then just taken off. Voldemort wasn't about to go searching after Peter. Unless Voldemort did think of this and made plans to prevent Peter from fleeing. One thing that bothered me was why Peter returned to Voldemort. Sirius was not about to hunt him again. He could have gone off somewhere and remained hidden. Instead he goes and finds Voldemort and helps bring him back to power. |
#44
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?
I don't really think it was fair, only because Sirius didn't consider how different him and Peter were. Not all friends would die for each other, and some people are terrified of death- even more so than usual. How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior? I think Peter was definitely envious and probably did feel both left out and inferior. Remus also must've felt left out at times, but I think he was just really grateful to have them around at all. Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all? I don't really want to answer cuz I don't remember when Remus was ever a suspect ![]() James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous? Both, but probably more adventurous. What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily? Sirius probably found it funny, and even sad at times. Remus might've thought it to be cute or may have pitied him. I doubt Peter really cared. How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak? I think she only influenced them at all was because James loved her. Other than that, she wasn't a big role in the Marauder's life, all-together. James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision? Remus may've been a bit hurt, but also understanding. Peter was probably hurt. Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance? I don't think he was ever happy, and never really wanted to do it. But he cared about his life more than his friends, so I don't feel very sympathetic for him. I doubt they would forgive him. Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow? Maybe a bit. I think they all wanted Voldemort stopped and were courageous enough to join- Except maybe Peter's case. He seemed like a coward, but I'm sure he still wanted Voldy to be stopped, even if it probably took some nudging from his friends to join. How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins? I've never really compared them. James and Sirius were a bit like Fred and George, but more cruel and not funny, unlike the twins. Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly? I suppose it chaged my opinion of Peter slightly, because of how and why he died. Snape's worst memory always made me think a bit less of them, but in the end, I think they were portrayed favourably. Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits? It's a hard decision; Sirius used to be my favorite, because of his charisma. I think the other's appreciated that about him. Anyways, I can decide between him and Remus. Remus was very kind (despite being a werewolf), courageous, and smart. I think these were the traits that his friends loved about him most. |
#45
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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Voldy was worried enough about the prophecy to GO INTO HIDING himself (as per Sirius in PoA, Voldy had been in hiding since approx. the time of the prophecy). What better chance did Voldy have to find the Potters than through Peter? He certainly couldn't think Sirius might be a viable option (after all, Voldy knew Regulus by then). Whether he thought he could replace Peter with Remus, we don't know - but it would seem just as easy to hunt down Peter. (except as a rat) It is also unknown whether Peter could have been tracked through the mark. The mark can be used to summon Voldy and/or other DEs - whether it can also be used to find one in hiding is unknown. Of course Peter could have chopped his own arm off. But I doubt Voldy would have just let Peter flee.
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When Dumbledore asked Snape, "If you are prepared..." he didn't mean 'Have your Death Eeater robes returned from the cleaners'. Everything we've seen Snape do, was done knowing Voldemort WOULD return someday. And when that day would come, that he had better have the appropriate memories that would enable him to lie to Voldy's face. Last edited by hwyla; March 25th, 2010 at 3:34 pm. |
#46
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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Another option theoretically open to Peter would have been to agree, and then turn around and tell his friends what had happened. Not necessarily to act as a double spy, a la Snape, that takes unusual nerve and talents we have no evidence Peter possessed in the area of Occlumency, but just so his friends know of the danger and don't tell him important stuff, and also perhaps help Peter to hide. But Peter did not take this option. I wonder why he would not have told his friends. Personally, I think he did not feel an equal partner with the others, not loved, trusted, and important to the other Marauders. I think their relationship was such that Peter did not expect any of his friends would help him, and expected they might deride him for getting himself into this mess in the first place, for being such a weak thing and not defying Voldemort, etc. "You should have died rather than betray us" is what Sirius told him in PoA. (A perfectly understandable display of anger under the circumstances). I don't think Peter expected any more constructive advice or actions from them earlier, however.
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#47
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() |
#48
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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It would be especially risky to have it on a spy unless there was some way of hiding it. |
#49
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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Peter would have been the one spying on the Potters because he was their friend. And nobody except Voldemort appears to have known that Peter was the SK/spy. It's pretty clear from PoA that the double agent you mentioned was not in the loop WRT Peter.
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#50
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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#51
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?
I think it was in integral part of being a friend. I think they considered themselves (at least 3 of them did) friends, and, expected loyalty from one another because of that. How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior? I think Lupin was glad to have people who accepted him and were willing to be with him during his "darker times." James provided financial assistance to Lupin even after they left school, so, they must have been fairly close, even if not quite as close as James and Sirius. IMO, Peter must have felt less a part of the group or he would not have turned on them so easily, leading to James' and Lily's deaths and to Sirius' imprisonment. The only secret he seemed to keep was Lupin being a werewolf. That doesn't seem to come out until after the end of PoA. Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all? I don't know. Like I said above, Peter seems to have kept Remus' alter-ego to himself, even from Voldemort for a while. I would say if he'd told Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy would have been aware of it and Remus would never have been allowed to even start teaching at Hogwarts. James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous? Adventerous. I feel this was just a way of flaunting both the school rules by sneaking out and flaunting MoM/WW rules by not registering. If they were noble, they could have learned to make the potion that Snape made to help Remus during PoA, which would have been more helpful to him. Hermoine learned to make several very complicated potions, so, with their backgrounds (all from magic families) and abilities they should have been able to work it out. What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily? It didn't seem to make much difference. I think they would have cheered James on as Lily was beautiful, talented, and, very, very well liked by other students and by the teachers. She seemed a prime catch for an adventerous jock. How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak? They didn't seem to change that much. They still seemed to hang around together and, when Lily and James got married, Sirius was best man, then, later Harry's godfather. I don't think she was ever considered a part of the group because it doesn't seem that they shared much with her. She seemed unaware of quite a bit that they are in to most of the time James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision? Remus seemed to be an easy-going type, so, I don't think he'd have been bothered. They may have told him he'd be godfather for the next child. I don't think Pettigrew really cared one way or the other. I think Pettigrew was out for Pettigrew, and, unless there was something in it for him, it wouldn't have mattered. Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance? Again, I feel that he was out for himself, and, it didn't matter to him as long as he was able to get away after he completed his foul deed. Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow? Possibly. But, I think Lupin would have anyway. I've already stated my opinion of Pettigrew and his motives for anything? Pettigrew. How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Fred and George didn't seem to be as malicious with their pranks. They didn't seem into personal harassment. Their pranks were more general and joking, and their "victims" more widespread. Even though their pranks were not meant to be harmful, they did go wrong occasionally. But, I think this was really accidental and not on purpose -- except what they did to Umbridge when they were leaving Hogwarts. Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins? I don't think the Marauders were funny. I see them more in the same ilk as Draco and his buddies Crabbe and Goyle. Their pranks seemed to have more malice than mirth. Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly? I think they lose some of their original image as dashing pranksters and come across more as spoiled bullies. I really was a bit disappointed in James, but, more for Harry's sake. It made him feel bad to see some of the things his dad did as a Marauder. Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits?[/b] Remus. He had a terrible handicap, but, still wanted to go to Hogwarts and wanted to hone his wizarding skills. He wold have had to work twice as hard as the others since he was missing school quite a bit during his werewolf transformations. But, he made Prefect, which was a huge accomplishment, IMO. I sometimes thought that Remus was an excuse for the others to break rules.
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#52
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
I can't believe I haven't answered these questions yet. Okay, here I go.
Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder? Sirius and Peter were very differently people so they thought very differently. Sirius was more of a brave and gallant character, and I don't think he was being unfair as much as naive to think that Peter would do the same. They also had pretty different positions. Peter might have felt a little out of place or not belonging with the other three, even though they treated him the same way they treated each other. As a Marauder, he was IMO on the end of the line and the least "cool", and I think he realized that. How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior? I think they admired their friends and were rather pleased to have been a part of their circle at all. However, they probably did feel a little envious at times, especially Peter. Remus probably felt a bit too, but he was on the more mature side and he probably understood perfectly. Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all? The secret keeper was most likely one of the four Marauders. Peter was said to have been dead, blown to pieces by Sirius for having "stood up" to him. He was also the innocent, nervous one, and probably not the first to be suspected. James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous? I think it was a bit of both. They were definitely good, loyal friends, and would have done anything for each other. The fact that becoming Animagi would have suited their adventurous streak did not hurt either. What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily? Sirius probably didn't take it too seriously (no pun intended) and thought James was a bit of an idiot for being so obsessed with her, but he probably encouraged/teased him anyways. Peter was probably jealous/admiring as always. I think Remus was quite happy that James was pursuing a "good" girl like Lily Evans. As seen in SWM, James suddenly pulled on a more mature face when Lily came by. I think Lupin was quite happy that there was something he really wanted other than to cause mischief. How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak? I don't think she did. I think she matured the tone a bit, but they remained largely the same people they always were and she just shrunk James's head a bit. James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision? I don't think they were actually hurt by the decision, as they couldn't have really expected any differently. They might have been a bit envious but I don't think either of them dwelled on the matter. Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance? I don't think so. Lupin and Sirius saw their best friend killed as a result, and for them (definitely for Sirius, if not for Lupin), to betray friends was the most despicable crime imaginable. I think their love and caring for James and Lily was far greater than their ability to forgive and forget. Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow? It's very possible. I think Remus would have joined on free will, especially since there weren't too many real occupations he could have taken, being a werewolf. I don't think Peter was actually given pressure from his friends, but it was kind of expected that he joined. I think joining the Order also gave him the sense of belonging, the cause for many of his actions. I don't think Peter had completely crossed over at the time, though he was definitely having DE leanings. How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins? I think their senses of humour were very different. I think James and Sirius were more teasing and troublesome, while Fred and George had more creative humour. I'm sure James and Sirius had their humourous moments that did not involve bullying, but we didn't exactly see too many of their scenes. Aside from bullying Snape, the only humourous point we really read about was the jokes about Remus being a werewolf after the OWLs, and I thought it was pretty funny. I don't see much of an indication that James and Sirius were unfunny, and I think Fred and George are also quite funny. Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly? They were certainly portrayed in a much better way than they were in SWM. I don't think it was favourable or unfavourable. However, I don't think I can fairly answer this question, being an extremely pro-James person. Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits? I like James best because of his courage, his sense of humour, his loyalty, and his ability to love. I think the Marauders definitely did appreciate these traits. I also really loved his sudden change and character development, and his unfailing love for Lily.
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#53
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() |
#54
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#55
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Additionally, Sirius WANTED revenge. He was not after Peter just to protect Harry. As he put it that night in the Shack 'he wanted to commit the crime for which he was imprisoned'. He did not break out of Azkaban to get at Peter previously because he didn't have a clue where to find him - not until he saw the photo of the Weasley family in Egypt. Quote:
And while Peter wasn't made SK until almost a year as a spy for Voldy, Albus told the Potters to use a Fidelius because it was so hard to hide from Voldy (as per Fudge in PoA). In other words, they were having trouble staying hidden. Therefore, Peter was giving up their locations all along. I believe it was Minerva who said Voldy's spy was reporting to him on the Potters' "movements". How else would they be sure that the spy was most certainly a Marauder? I cannot see James and Sirius believing Remus was the traitor UNLESS it was down to a choice between him or Peter.
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When Dumbledore asked Snape, "If you are prepared..." he didn't mean 'Have your Death Eeater robes returned from the cleaners'. Everything we've seen Snape do, was done knowing Voldemort WOULD return someday. And when that day would come, that he had better have the appropriate memories that would enable him to lie to Voldy's face. Last edited by hwyla; March 26th, 2010 at 3:21 am. |
#56
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#57
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
What gets me thinking is the fact, that Peter is part of the Marauders. Why would James, Sirius, and Lupin accept him as one of theirs, i see lupin as the kid that gets picked on and i cant see James standing up for Peter.
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#58
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
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Remember that a few of those prisoners had only been brought in during that last year of VW1. A time in which Albus had a spy among them. Consider also that we know for a fact that one of those same group of prisoners (Bella) was quite convinced that the traitor was someone other than Peter (see SpinnersEnd chapter of HBP). Even to the point of wanting to know where he was on the night Voldy 'fell' (the first time). And Bella was not alone in her suspicions. It is suggested that she take his response to her back to the others. It is quite likely that the 'double-crosser' they spoke of in their sleep was therefore him - not Peter. Just because Sirius THOUGHT they spoke of Peter does not mean they DID. He was unaware there was another person they might consider a 'double-crosser'. And IF he had something to do with their arrests, then it is quite likely they would mean him, not Peter - whom most of them most likely would not know about. Now ONE of the DEs probably knew about Peter. Whichever one was actually used to approach him. We have no idea whom that might be - or whether he/she was even still alive at the end of VW1.
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When Dumbledore asked Snape, "If you are prepared..." he didn't mean 'Have your Death Eeater robes returned from the cleaners'. Everything we've seen Snape do, was done knowing Voldemort WOULD return someday. And when that day would come, that he had better have the appropriate memories that would enable him to lie to Voldy's face. Last edited by hwyla; March 26th, 2010 at 6:10 am. |
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I wonder Peter was not confused, because he never double crossed Voldemort; he was hiding to stay away from the Marauders and the Order, for they believed him dead. He says he does not know what Sirius was talking about; it may mean both the fact he had not double crossed and the fact he was trying to think a way out of the currect situation he was in IMO. Quote:
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2
Thanks for the correction Green Woods - altho' I think it might be a 'correction' in later editions then for JKRs 'bad math'. I distinctly remember gnawing on that info with several other people - wondering why Voldy had gone into hiding before Harry had even been born.
However, IF Peter wasn't suspected because the Potters were 'safe' then we were given false clues in PoA. Minerva spoke of 'Sirius'/spy/reallyPeter as telling Voldy about the Potters 'movements' and Fudge said Albus counseled them to cast a Fidelius because it was too hard to hide from Voldy. That means there has to be at least one 'escape' for it suddenly to be more difficult than before. And I just cannot see James and Sirius believing the traitor to be Remus unless there was ironclad proof that the spy had to be a Marauder - as in info that only a Marauder could supply - not just any other Order member. And that pretty much has to be about the Potters.
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When Dumbledore asked Snape, "If you are prepared..." he didn't mean 'Have your Death Eeater robes returned from the cleaners'. Everything we've seen Snape do, was done knowing Voldemort WOULD return someday. And when that day would come, that he had better have the appropriate memories that would enable him to lie to Voldy's face. |
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