Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Divination Studies

Neville vs. Bellatrix



 
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:28 pm
owlpostgirl's Avatar
owlpostgirl  Female.gif owlpostgirl is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4803 days
Location: beyond the veil
Posts: 736
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

After reading OotP I really thought JKR was setting up a Neville v Bella showdown.

BUT after reading HBP I'm a little skeptical. Before I read HBP it seemed incredibly obvious to me that we would one day see a big Harry v Draco faceoff - and now it looks like that has fizzled out - it might still happen, but not in a clear-cut, good/evil nemesis way.


__________________
HIPPOGRIFF, n. An animal (now extinct) which was half horse and half griffin. The griffin as itself a compound creature, half lion and half eagle. The hippogriff was actually, therefore, a one-quarter eagle, which is two dollars and fifty cents in gold. The study of zoology is full of surprises.
- Ambrose Bierce
Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:31 pm
zoeydsngwrtr zoeydsngwrtr is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5646 days
Location: Utah
Age: 36
Posts: 458
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

I think Neville will be Bella's downfall just as Harry is Voldemort's downfall. I find it no coincidence that when Volde first returned, Bella was his right hand lady, and she was the one who took down the parents of the other boy who could have been the chosen one. I am interrested to see what happens. I do think that if Harry has the power to kill Volde, than Neville has the power to kill Bella. It seems to me that Bella's most loved person seems to by Narcissa, and that would be her week point....so I believe that Neville will be somehow involved in the fate of the Malfoy's


__________________
Wierd people rule the earth and I am one of them.
-Zoey
  #83  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 10:56 pm
Spritey's Avatar
Spritey  Female.gif Spritey is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4916 days
Location: The End
Posts: 1,120
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by bap0485 View Post
All it says is that you need to mean it. He definitely will.
Meaning it doesn't make it right or good, though, and Neville is a good person. I really doubt he'd ever get into torturing her; he knows what it does to people, he knows what it did to his parents.

Similarly, I hope he doesn't kill her. Not on purpose, at least. I can see her dying accidentally in a confrontation with him, or getting handed into the Ministry. But I don't want Neville to split his soul =/ He needs it for his further awesome adventures!


__________________
Move on, move on
It's like the clock is pacing
The break of dawn and our hearts are racing
Move on, move on
No there's nothing changing
  #84  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:32 pm
YNWA  Male.gif YNWA is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4256 days
Location: United States
Posts: 115
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritey View Post
Meaning it doesn't make it right or good, though, and Neville is a good person. I really doubt he'd ever get into torturing her; he knows what it does to people, he knows what it did to his parents.

Similarly, I hope he doesn't kill her. Not on purpose, at least. I can see her dying accidentally in a confrontation with him, or getting handed into the Ministry. But I don't want Neville to split his soul =/ He needs it for his further awesome adventures!
I agree. I don't want to see Neville kill or torture her on purpose. There are other ways to avenge his parents. I can see him beating her in a duel (leading to her capture) or maybe his stunner will send her flying and the resulting impact kills her. I really don't want any of the younger characters to be casting Killing or Cruciatus curses.


__________________

Kings of Europe: '77, '78, '81, '84, '05

You'll Never Walk Alone
  #85  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:33 pm
bap0485  Undisclosed.gif bap0485 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4189 days
Posts: 22
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritey View Post
Meaning it doesn't make it right or good, though, and Neville is a good person. I really doubt he'd ever get into torturing her; he knows what it does to people, he knows what it did to his parents.

Similarly, I hope he doesn't kill her. Not on purpose, at least. I can see her dying accidentally in a confrontation with him, or getting handed into the Ministry. But I don't want Neville to split his soul =/ He needs it for his further awesome adventures!
He can still want to hurt someone. Just because you are good does not mean you never wan to do bad things. Also, you don't have to make a horcux when you kill.


  #86  
Old May 3rd, 2007, 11:47 pm
Spritey's Avatar
Spritey  Female.gif Spritey is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4916 days
Location: The End
Posts: 1,120
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by bap0485 View Post
He can still want to hurt someone. Just because you are good does not mean you never wan to do bad things. Also, you don't have to make a horcux when you kill.
Well, that's the thing - there's a difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it, and I'd say (in my subjective opinion as someone entirely unimportant) that, sometimes, resisting the impulse is what makes you a good person. Like Harry couldn't have tortured Bellatrix (which is a good thing in itself, that he doesn't have it in his soul in the first place), but he still needs to get to the point where he won't even attempt it if he's going to win. Where he makes a conscious decision to not go down to her level, you know?

Also, killing splits your soul whether you make a Horcrux or not. That was my understanding of it, at least.


__________________
Move on, move on
It's like the clock is pacing
The break of dawn and our hearts are racing
Move on, move on
No there's nothing changing
  #87  
Old May 4th, 2007, 12:00 am
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4265 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Does anyone have the Canon quotes regarding the unforgivables handy? I'm at work, so I don't...but they're from GoF (Crouch Jr / Moody showing the class the curses), OoTP (Bella taunting Harry), and HBP (Snape taunting Harry). My interpritation of the quotes collected from these three sources is that righteous anger and other fury that comes from having been "wronged", like Neville and Harry have been, isn't sufficient to pull off a full Crucio or AK. Harry has tried twice and failed in his use of "crucio".
This interpritation is why I feel that Neville cannot use an unforgiveable on Bellatrix. However, taking an idea from one of the CoS contest writers, I could see Neville using a mandrake against her .


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
  #88  
Old May 4th, 2007, 12:14 am
bap0485  Undisclosed.gif bap0485 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4189 days
Posts: 22
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritey View Post
Well, that's the thing - there's a difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it, and I'd say (in my subjective opinion as someone entirely unimportant) that, sometimes, resisting the impulse is what makes you a good person. Like Harry couldn't have tortured Bellatrix (which is a good thing in itself, that he doesn't have it in his soul in the first place), but he still needs to get to the point where he won't even attempt it if he's going to win. Where he makes a conscious decision to not go down to her level, you know?

Also, killing splits your soul whether you make a Horcrux or not. That was my understanding of it, at least.
No, you have to split your soul to make a horcrux and the only possible way to do such is to kill . It doesn't automatically split your soul, but if you are doing an incantation to make a horcrux you have killed, and the incantation will split your soul.


  #89  
Old May 4th, 2007, 12:36 am
Spritey's Avatar
Spritey  Female.gif Spritey is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4916 days
Location: The End
Posts: 1,120
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by bap0485 View Post
No, you have to split your soul to make a horcrux and the only possible way to do such is to kill . It doesn't automatically split your soul, but if you are doing an incantation to make a horcrux you have killed, and the incantation will split your soul.
*brain dies a little* I'm not smart enough to be going into this kind of detail This is what the HP Lexicon has, though, which matches with how I understood the process (gosh, HBP was so long ago!):

Quote:
The act of splitting the soul is accomplished by committing murder, which rips the soul apart.
What's the difference between a split and a rip? Maybe I should have said that I didn't want Neville to tear his soul, as opposed to "split"...


__________________
Move on, move on
It's like the clock is pacing
The break of dawn and our hearts are racing
Move on, move on
No there's nothing changing
  #90  
Old May 4th, 2007, 1:24 am
bap0485  Undisclosed.gif bap0485 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4189 days
Posts: 22
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Who knows? I guess we'll se when the book finally comes out. I know we can all agree that when he does get at Bella, it will be big.


  #91  
Old May 4th, 2007, 6:10 am
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4265 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

To answer my own question:
GoF paperback pg 217 "Avaka Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it - you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I'd doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed".

OoTP, pg 810 "Never used an Unforgiveable Curse before, have you, boy"..."You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain - to enjoy it - righteous anger won't hurt me for long..."

"No Unforgiveable Curses from you, Potter!"..."You haven't got the nerve or the ability"

Considering Neville's reaction to the Crucio in GoF, I don't think that he has it in him to really want to cause pain. He's got oodles of righteous anger, but I don't think he'd enjoy using an Unforgiveable on Bella.

So, if Neville does get his "due" (I posted on this a lot earlier - I personally think that whoever "gets" Bella will do so in the normal course of battle), I think it'll be his Herbology rather than his wandwork that will make him win.


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
  #92  
Old May 4th, 2007, 5:57 pm
LoveWeasleys's Avatar
LoveWeasleys  Female.gif LoveWeasleys is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4162 days
Location: The Water Gardens
Age: 34
Posts: 2,487
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

This is one scene that I am really looking forward too. Not only is it revenge for Neville, but we get to see him become a great wizard. (who would have thought)
It is almost more of a David and Goliath story than Harry and LV
I mean we know Harry's got skill and that he has A HUGE chance in winning. But, we still have yet to see Neville become truly a great wizard.
I can't wait to read this part! I wonder if we will read anything more about the future of his parents as well...


  #93  
Old May 4th, 2007, 11:24 pm
CrotonaPark44  Male.gif CrotonaPark44 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4194 days
Posts: 23
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

If Herbology is going to be the key to Neville defeating Bella, I nominate Mimbulus mimbletonia. After all it's Neville's personal plant, and who knows what magical powers MM possesses that Jo has not revealed to us, but will in Deathly Hallows.


  #94  
Old May 5th, 2007, 12:02 am
wiseanalyst  Undisclosed.gif wiseanalyst is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4219 days
Posts: 10
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

I noticed when Dumbledore died we were introduced to a new rule of magic: the effects of spells end when the caster dies. Could Neville kill Bellatrix to 'bring back' his parents? Obviously, the deaths of Rabastan and Rodolphus would be necessary, but it wouldn't be hard for JKR to arrange this with an all-out war on: the brothers are fringe characters, their deaths would seem unimportant.

As for 'could Neville kill Bella' we were shown his improvements in OOTP and I can see him enjoying killing Bella, which he has to do for an AK curse.


  #95  
Old May 5th, 2007, 2:19 am
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4265 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Unfortunately, I think that the effects of a "crucio" are permanent. I only think certain "temporary" spells - like the freezing spell DD used - can be reversed. Spells that cause physical damage, IMO, cannot be reversed . As an example, the caster of an "Avada Kedavra" can him/herself die, but anyone that they killed is still dead.


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
  #96  
Old May 5th, 2007, 2:30 am
LoveWeasleys's Avatar
LoveWeasleys  Female.gif LoveWeasleys is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4162 days
Location: The Water Gardens
Age: 34
Posts: 2,487
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseanalyst View Post
I noticed when Dumbledore died we were introduced to a new rule of magic: the effects of spells end when the caster dies. Could Neville kill Bellatrix to 'bring back' his parents? Obviously, the deaths of Rabastan and Rodolphus would be necessary, but it wouldn't be hard for JKR to arrange this with an all-out war on: the brothers are fringe characters, their deaths would seem unimportant.

As for 'could Neville kill Bella' we were shown his improvements in OOTP and I can see him enjoying killing Bella, which he has to do for an AK curse.
wouldn't it be lovely if it brought his parents back?! But I agree with Chparadise...I don't think it will be reversed. Partly because their "insanity" was a side affect of the curse not the actual curse itself (as in Harry and DDs case)


  #97  
Old May 10th, 2007, 12:38 am
zoeydsngwrtr zoeydsngwrtr is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5646 days
Location: Utah
Age: 36
Posts: 458
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseanalyst View Post
I noticed when Dumbledore died we were introduced to a new rule of magic: the effects of spells end when the caster dies. Could Neville kill Bellatrix to 'bring back' his parents? Obviously, the deaths of Rabastan and Rodolphus would be necessary, but it wouldn't be hard for JKR to arrange this with an all-out war on: the brothers are fringe characters, their deaths would seem unimportant.

As for 'could Neville kill Bella' we were shown his improvements in OOTP and I can see him enjoying killing Bella, which he has to do for an AK curse.
This is only in affect for spells that can be reversed or stopped such as the imperious curse. As the Longbottoms are not currently under the crucacious curse, I do not think that killing bella will fix the problem. Also, their insanity is a result of the crucatious curse, and they are no longer being tortured.


__________________
Wierd people rule the earth and I am one of them.
-Zoey
  #98  
Old May 10th, 2007, 10:28 am
Mad_Druid's Avatar
Mad_Druid  Female.gif Mad_Druid is offline
Too MAGENTA for a UT
 
Joined: 4951 days
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,422
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrotonaPark44
If Herbology is going to be the key to Neville defeating Bella, I nominate Mimbulus mimbletonia. After all it's Neville's personal plant, and who knows what magical powers MM possesses that Jo has not revealed to us, but will in Deathly Hallows.
I'm hoping that it will drench Voldemort with stinksap, soiling his fancy robes and thus distracting him long enough for Harry to hex him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseanalyst View Post
As for 'could Neville kill Bella' we were shown his improvements in OOTP and I can see him enjoying killing Bella, which he has to do for an AK curse.
I can't see Neville ever enjoying killing anybody, even Bellatrix.


__________________
In the slip of a bolt, there's a tiny revolt
the seeds of a war in the creak of a floorboard
a storm can begin, with the flap of a wing
the tiniest mite packs the mightiest sting.

avatar by the Moriath!bear
  #99  
Old May 11th, 2007, 12:08 pm
patricksvd  Male.gif patricksvd is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4221 days
Location: Philippines
Age: 29
Posts: 34
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

yes, yes, yes!!! neville will be given that chance for sweet, sweet revenge!!!


__________________
Patricksvd


http://www.friendster.com/patricksean
  #100  
Old May 11th, 2007, 12:22 pm
SusanBones's Avatar
SusanBones  Female.gif SusanBones is offline
Inconceivable!
 
Joined: 5047 days
Location: in a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 4,090
Re: Neville vs. Bellatrix

I am really torn on this Neville thing. We have someone who has been hiding his defensive talents. We first see them in the DA lessons, where he is the best student after Hermione. We see him use incredible bravery in the MoM scene in OotP and in the HBP-Death Eater battle. JKR has definitely set him up as someone who is capable of fighting Bellatrix. I just don't like the idea of it, though. I don't like the idea of revenge being the motivator for Neville-Bellatrix. It just seems too dark for Neville. Although JKR's books are full of dark things, and Harry was angry enough at Bellatrix for killing Sirius that he tried to use an unforgiveable on her, I just hope that Neville doesn't do that.

I would love for him to resolve matters with Bellatrix by some method that doesn't use an unforgiveable curse. I don't know what that would be, but I am convinced that it can be done.


 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Divination Studies

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:06 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.