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The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 4th, 2007, 11:38 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by swimmers_order View Post
LV's mom was a witch where harry's was a muggle,
Lily Evans Potter was not a Muggle, she was a Muggleborn witch.
MN&TLC interview, July 2005MA: What about Harry's family — his grandparents — were they killed? JKR: No. This takes us into more mundane territory. As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.
MA: That sort of shuts down Heir of Gryffindor [theories], as well.
JKR: [Pause.] Yeah. Well - yeah.
MA: Another one bites the dust.
[Laughter]
JKR: Well, there you go.


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  #22  
Old May 5th, 2007, 6:00 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
Lily Evans Potter was not a Muggle, she was a Muggleborn witch.
yea that's what i meant. sorry! i should have made myself plainer. they were both witches but one was born to a pure-blood family where the other was born to a muggle family. i still think this might be an important connection between harry and voldy.


  #23  
Old May 6th, 2007, 9:47 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
I have a feeling that we haven't seen a bit of the powers that LV transferred - unless the fact that Harry's a very powerful wizard comes in part from LV, in addition to Harry's well-accomplished parents.
When you think about it this is a very powerful and scary statement (good job!) and even topic!
The fact that LV transferred powers to Harry the night in Godric's Hallow (Parseltonge..one example) is a scary fact being that LV is his mortal enemy, yet Harry is has powerful aspects no other wizard has because of him!
We see that when DD says that instead LV made Harry his equal...
That is very scary considering how evil LV is. I don't think we have ever seen a bond between enemy and foe such as these two have. The showdown between them is surely to be legendary!
So, many people say "How can a underage wizard beat the best wizard of all time...) But, because of the bond they shared and the transfer of power it is clear they are equals and it is anyone's game...
Also, that Harry has love within him is the only difference between the two.
I agree I think we have yet to see all the effects of the power transfer, which will be left for the the final battle....



Last edited by LoveWeasleys; May 6th, 2007 at 9:49 pm.
  #24  
Old May 6th, 2007, 10:32 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

I'm hoping that whatever the connection is, it doesn't result in an incapacitating headache to Harry just at the moment Harry needs his wits about him. I suffer from migraines, but I'm not trying to run around and save the world, and a hero lying on the ground, clutching his forehead and asking for headache medicine is not a great finale.


  #25  
Old May 6th, 2007, 10:48 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by lindaluna View Post
I'm hoping that whatever the connection is, it doesn't result in an incapacitating headache to Harry just at the moment Harry needs his wits about him. I suffer from migraines, but I'm not trying to run around and save the world, and a hero lying on the ground, clutching his forehead and asking for headache medicine is not a great finale.
I agree! I hope Harry will find a way of getting past the head pains...they must be "aweful" (for lack of a better word)..


  #26  
Old May 7th, 2007, 7:25 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by Harry_Potter31 View Post
I agree that the bond between them does seem to work largely in Harry's favor , and yes Voldemort can possess him but now I think he's doing the Occlumancy against Harry knowing that Harry can enter his mind without pain or suffering bodily harm himself , and I agree that the Parseltongue may come in handy later when going against Nagini , IMO I think the bond between Harry and Voldemort will grow faint by book 7 , but will see when we read book 7 .
Voldemort can't possess Harry without suffering agony. How about the reverse? Is it possible for Harry to possess Voldemort? Would Voldemort's agony when their minds are merged make it easy for Harry to possess Voldemort and maintain control?

We have seen an instance where Harry briefly entered Snape's mind, without even meaning to do so - and Snape is a master at occlumency. Perhaps Harry has a natural talent for that kind of thing?

Harry was no good at occlumency, but there are some hints that he might be very good at the opposite - legilimency, and perhaps also possession of others. The connection via the scar would likely facilitate possession, and then there's the whole thing about Harry's eyes, which also seems to facilitate interpersonal connections.

If Harry could possess Voldemort, it would open up all kinds of possibilities for defeating Vodemort. In one stroke, it would neutralize all of Voldemort's advantages in other kinds of magic.

The idea does raise the question as to whether possessing someone else is intrinsically evil; I think it's unlikely that Harry will defeat Voldemort using methods that are intrinsically evil. But I don't know whether possession falls into that category. Perhaps it would depend on what you did with the power?


  #27  
Old May 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04
So, many people say "How can a underage wizard beat the best wizard of all time...) But, because of the bond they shared and the transfer of power it is clear they are equals and it is anyone's game...
Also, that Harry has love within him is the only difference between the two.
But Voldemort and Harry don't appear to be equals at all. Voldemort is a far more accomplished wizard than Harry in every area of magic studied at Hogwarts. Harry knows he cannot duel with Voldemort the way Dumbledore did and that's without even taking into account that, as lindaluna reminds us, Voldemort's mere presence is enough to cause Harry debilitating pain.

There are also many differences between the two besides Harry's ability to love (a branch of 'magic' in which Harry is superior to Voldemort), although it could be argued that all these stem from this one ability.

The Prophecy effectively states that Harry is Voldemort's equal, but the question is 'How is Harry Voldemort's equal?' because it is very far from 'clear'.


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  #28  
Old May 7th, 2007, 10:50 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by JJC View Post
But Voldemort and Harry don't appear to be equals at all. Voldemort is a far more accomplished wizard than Harry in every area of magic studied at Hogwarts. Harry knows he cannot duel with Voldemort the way Dumbledore did and that's without even taking into account that, as lindaluna reminds us, Voldemort's mere presence is enough to cause Harry debilitating pain.

There are also many differences between the two besides Harry's ability to love (a branch of 'magic' in which Harry is superior to Voldemort), although it could be argued that all these stem from this one ability.

The Prophecy effectively states that Harry is Voldemort's equal, but the question is 'How is Harry Voldemort's equal?' because it is very far from 'clear'.
This may sound cheesy...but I really think we have a lot to see from Harry in this next book. I think and hope that he will discover power he never knew he had...
As we see in almost every book in the series he is growing and finding out different things about his ability. DD saw it and I see it too.
I have a feeling that "equal" here also doesn't mean their abilities per say. It could mean how their streangths are on opposite sides of the spectrum and therefore they are an equal match for each other...
Harry also has more to learn about his mother (different thread), but it may shed light onto his powers/ability/choice...


  #29  
Old May 11th, 2007, 5:40 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

Here's a theory to chew on:

I've always though the prophecy was a too literal. If you take it prima facto then the end is far too clear, IE a showdown where one will die. However, what if the prophecy was more based in the connection that the Dark Lord created. Voldy is a part of Harry,we know this much. But what if Harry is a part of Voldy? Neither can survive while the other one lives... This could be interpreted that both Harry and Voldy are tormented by the fact that there is a bit of each other in side of them. Harry is good, he is Gryffondor, but the sorting hat detected that part of Slytherin inside of him. It could be the same for Voldy now that part of Gryffondor is inside of him due to that fateful night. Harry hates his connection to Voldy, in turn Voldy would loathe his connection to Harry. More thought perhaps as to how this could turn relevant, but it may be the reason Harry could defeat Voldy in a duel in the end.


  #30  
Old May 14th, 2007, 8:17 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

I don't mean to jump in here - but had a thought about Harry's visions in GoF. Harry has 2 visions in book 4, both of which are seemingly as an outsider to the situation. In book 5 he has more - one of which is definitely him feeling himself as the Snake, another is the implanted vision of Sirius being torutured. I believe he also has one where he is Voldemort maybe when LV is discussing Rookwood.

Anyway, Dumbledore's "but in essence divided?..." come to mind with all of this. Dumbledore thinks that when Harry attacks Arthur as Nagini that Harry sees it because LV is possessing Nagini, but how is it that in the other visions Harry is sort of an outsider - like when he sees the back of the chair that Voldemort is in. Is it possible that in these other visions Harry sees them as Nagini as well? Is it possible that Harry has a connection with both Voldemort and Nagini?


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  #31  
Old May 15th, 2007, 5:53 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by JJC View Post
But Voldemort and Harry don't appear to be equals at all. Voldemort is a far more accomplished wizard than Harry in every area of magic studied at Hogwarts. Harry knows he cannot duel with Voldemort the way Dumbledore did and that's without even taking into account that, as lindaluna reminds us, Voldemort's mere presence is enough to cause Harry debilitating pain.

There are also many differences between the two besides Harry's ability to love (a branch of 'magic' in which Harry is superior to Voldemort), although it could be argued that all these stem from this one ability.

The Prophecy effectively states that Harry is Voldemort's equal, but the question is 'How is Harry Voldemort's equal?' because it is very far from 'clear'.
Yes, this has been worrying me as well - I can't see that Harry is Voldermort's equal at all.
Has Jo left far too much to be wrapped up? Four horcruxes! And Harry's like that proverbial dog that chases down cars - if you do catch one, what do you do with it?
Dumbledore exhibited some serious magic in that cave and he even told Harry that Harry's magic wouldn't even register next to his. So is Harry going to rely again on that very thing that has got him surviving upto age 17 - sheer instinct and gut?
That's very well and I do want him to survive but I'd also like him to, you know, kick some butt in his 'vanquishment' of the Dark Lord.


  #32  
Old May 15th, 2007, 6:40 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

Ive read in so many places about how Harry cant possibly be the equal of Voldermort cos Voldermort is a far more powerful wizard...and i sometimes wonder whether people have read the same books as me. When I read them I see Harry as very much Voldermorts equal. Every powerful wizard in history started out their lives as no more than what Harry is...in fact considerably less.

Throughout the series their are countless examples of how Harry is far from an ordinary wizard. The only wizard to ever survive a death curse...you cant tell me that this doesn't give him power. Not only did he survive when he was a baby but he continually survives and does things that leave many wizards baffled by his accomplishments...nobody can have that much luck, skill must be involved. He is the only man who has ever stood up to Voldemort and survived intact. Even Dumbledore describes him as "extraordinary" and if Dumbledore thinks that then it must be true.

The prophecy says the dark lord will mark him as his equal and this is exactly as i see it. Voldemort chose and created his own nemesis...which is an equality that Voldemort could not have imagined and will only realise its full implications in the final book.



Last edited by coolhandluke; May 15th, 2007 at 6:44 pm.
  #33  
Old May 15th, 2007, 10:04 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

What do you all think about the bond between Voldie and Harry being a way to kill him? Like Harry would have to kill himself, or kill Voldemort AND himself in order to be free of Voldemort? This isn't about the horcrux idea, it's just another WHY answer.

How...

hmmm... Obviously we know how it came about, but I wonder if it wouldn't be strengthened by either Voldie or Harry in the seventh book? eh.. just a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke View Post
The prophecy says the dark lord will mark him as his equal and this is exactly as i see it. Voldemort chose and created his own nemesis...which is an equality that Voldemort could not have imagined and will only realise its full implications in the final book.
In all wars, the bad guy has always created the people they are destroyed by. Inadvertently at least.


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  #34  
Old May 15th, 2007, 10:26 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by Hawk_Shade7 View Post
What do you all think about the bond between Voldie and Harry being a way to kill him? Like Harry would have to kill himself, or kill Voldemort AND himself in order to be free of Voldemort? This isn't about the horcrux idea, it's just another WHY answer.

How...

hmmm... Obviously we know how it came about, but I wonder if it wouldn't be strengthened by either Voldie or Harry in the seventh book? eh.. just a thought.
I definately think the bond could have something to do with how Harry will kill LV. I also think that we will find out more about the blood that Harry (unwillingly) gave him in GoF, so now the same blood flows through LV.
I believe the connection of that blood will come into play durring the battle, between the two...


  #35  
Old May 16th, 2007, 10:26 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by HMN View Post
I don't mean to jump in here - but had a thought about Harry's visions in GoF. Harry has 2 visions in book 4, both of which are seemingly as an outsider to the situation. In book 5 he has more - one of which is definitely him feeling himself as the Snake, another is the implanted vision of Sirius being torutured. I believe he also has one where he is Voldemort maybe when LV is discussing Rookwood.

Anyway, Dumbledore's "but in essence divided?..." come to mind with all of this. Dumbledore thinks that when Harry attacks Arthur as Nagini that Harry sees it because LV is possessing Nagini, but how is it that in the other visions Harry is sort of an outsider - like when he sees the back of the chair that Voldemort is in. Is it possible that in these other visions Harry sees them as Nagini as well? Is it possible that Harry has a connection with both Voldemort and Nagini?
I suggested this in another thread - well, sort of. I think there is the possibility that, if Voldemort could plant visions in Harry's head, then in theory, Harry could do the same to Voldemort. I realise it is highly unlikely as Voldemort is clearly skilled at both Occlumency and Legilimency, but I would have thought that it could work both ways. Does this mean that Harry could actually control Nagini the way Voldemort does?


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  #36  
Old May 16th, 2007, 11:42 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by IMissPadfoot View Post
I suggested this in another thread - well, sort of. I think there is the possibility that, if Voldemort could plant visions in Harry's head, then in theory, Harry could do the same to Voldemort. I realise it is highly unlikely as Voldemort is clearly skilled at both Occlumency and Legilimency, but I would have thought that it could work both ways. Does this mean that Harry could actually control Nagini the way Voldemort does?
I think it is very possible that Harry could plant visions in Voldemort's head, but Voldemort would have to turn off the Occlumency first. I bet he is very skilled at both Occlumency and Legillimens, as Snape told Bellatrix in Spinners End. Harry had been able to read Voldemort's emotions. That is why he started to use Occlumency, to keep Harry out of his thoughts. I've wondered if Harry would be able to turn that to his advantage somehow, the way he was able to send those beads toward Voldemort's wand when their wands connected in GoF. I doubt if he could control Nagini, though. I think it would be something else that Harry does to Voldemort, maybe something to do with love.



Last edited by SusanBones; May 16th, 2007 at 11:47 am.
  #37  
Old May 16th, 2007, 1:39 pm
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

Maybe Harry should plant the image of all the students at Hogwarts running to hug and kiss LV! That might do him in...

Seriously, though, I too think it would have to work both ways and I think that LV wouldn't be expecting it. I am not really sure how it would be used to Harry's advantage, maybe I am just not thinking hard enough...


  #38  
Old May 17th, 2007, 3:30 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by IMissPadfoot View Post
I suggested this in another thread - well, sort of. I think there is the possibility that, if Voldemort could plant visions in Harry's head, then in theory, Harry could do the same to Voldemort. I realise it is highly unlikely as Voldemort is clearly skilled at both Occlumency and Legilimency, but I would have thought that it could work both ways. Does this mean that Harry could actually control Nagini the way Voldemort does?
This is a really good question. It should be able to work both ways - that Harry (if he was skilled at legilimency and/or occlumency) should be able to plant a vision in Voldemort's mind. Which, by the way, would be brilliant! But I think Harry would have to have the desire to tap into Voldemort's mind, which I don't believe he does.

Back to Nagini - I think Harry will be able to communicate with Nagini, but not so sure about being able to control her. I just can't really justify how Harry saw all those scenes involving Voldemort from a 3rd party perspective. If he wasn't seeing them as Voldemort, then who was he seeing them as?


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  #39  
Old May 17th, 2007, 8:39 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

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Originally Posted by HMN View Post
This is a really good question. It should be able to work both ways - that Harry (if he was skilled at legilimency and/or occlumency) should be able to plant a vision in Voldemort's mind. Which, by the way, would be brilliant! But I think Harry would have to have the desire to tap into Voldemort's mind, which I don't believe he does.
Well, no. Who would want to, right? But I do think the possiblity is there.

Quote:
Back to Nagini - I think Harry will be able to communicate with Nagini, but not so sure about being able to control her. I just can't really justify how Harry saw all those scenes involving Voldemort from a 3rd party perspective. If he wasn't seeing them as Voldemort, then who was he seeing them as?
Do you mean the scenes in GoF? Or in OotP?

Also, as for not being able to control Nagini...I was thinking. After the attack on Arthur at the Ministry, when Harry goes to tell Dumbledore about it, he feels the urge to attack him as if he is still in the mind of Nagini. Does the fact that Harry managed to stop himself mean that, if he could have realised what was going on in the dream, he could have prevented the attack on Arthur? It's not as simple as controlling Nagini by Parseltongue, because of course, Nagini wouldn't obey. But if Harry and Voldemort could slip in and out of each others minds, and Voldemort can posess Nagini, doesn't it stand to reason that Harry could also posess Nagini?


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Old May 17th, 2007, 10:28 am
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Re: The Bond between Harry & Voldemort v.2

I think they are equal in pure power... what makes the difference is the skill, experience and self confidence/ego between the two. Having the power is one thing, having the skill, confidence and experience to actually use it effectively is something else entirely. I think at some point during DH, Harry's not only going to accept that he is LV equal in power, but will become more confident in using that power... perhaps as he hunts down the various horcruxes? However it happens, I think it's going to catch LV by surprise, as he's surely too arrogant to believe anyone can ever match him, let alone a 17 year old boy!

Is there anything in canon to say that LV is actually aware that in attacking Harry as a baby, he made Harry his equal? Cos if he isn't he's going to be in for a hell of a shock!!! I'm assuming he doesn't know, as when DD and Harry were discussing the prophesy, DD said LV never heard that part as Snape was discovered eavesdropping before they got to that bit, and LV never got his hand on the prophesy at the MOM either...


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