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The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 15th, 2007, 12:31 am
skalors1  Undisclosed.gif skalors1 is offline
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The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

This post may be met with some dismay and open animosity. However, it has been a theory of mine since I started reading the first book (which I admit wasn’t until I was a freshman in college and that proves significant) and has been reinforced by almost every Harry Potter book since then (and the second Harry Potter movie but I will leave you folks to figure that out). Also, to my surprise, it has been something that no one has caught on to in all of this time despite the numerous hints that have been in the books. Or if they have, they have kept it quiet like I have done.

This theory may very well answer questions in regards to Harry’s eye color (as well as lily’s) their implied power, Harry’s scar, the symbol on the spine of Book 7 as well as prove that Dumbledore may be wrong about “power which the Dark Lord knows not.”

*Disclaimer: This is a theory. Though the information contained herein will be presented as fact. Also, researching the theory will take more legwork than a long internet search. It will require detailed knowledge of the subject matter and its corresponding theories. You will have to look at other sources regarding this topic. Also, I have never had an interest in the topic matters discussed. My knowledge is based on 4 years of college courses on the study of ancient writing, its origin and uses.

The shape of Harry’s scar is what tipped me off. It is more than a scar and more than a connection between Voldemort and Harry. It is an ancient rune.

However, to truly understand the symbol and its implications, you must first understand the lore behind it which is something I do not have the time to explain in great detail. I will briefly discuss it here, though.

Ancient runes have different origins. Many Runes are similar such as the Sigell (an anglo-saxon rune shaped like Harry’s scar also referred to as another name in HP:TOTP) “, is also almost an exact replica of a later version of an Elder Futhark rune named Sowilo and other runes. You now understand the enormous undertaking this requires; with so many similar forms of rune speak that have been modified since around 3,000 B.C until as recently as the 1939 Nazi regime whose cultist created a new alphabet, finding the correct key that contains the correct symbol can be very time consuming. I will give you a few hints and examples before we actually move this discussion forward.

One of the symbols on the spine of HP:TDH is inside what is known as a Bind Rune. This differs greatly from the wiccan rune scripts which have a specific order for different circumstances on runes placed in a specific order dependant on how many runes they desire to use for a specific spell. You will not find this symbol anywhere online (I don’t think) or in the conventional runic alphabet. This is because it was considered the secret key to the runic code. I am of course referring to the circle inside of the triangle. Therefore, I will tell you what it means. It stands for the Great Mother with her Divine Child, or what we refer to as the “Tree of Life.” Its literal meaning is “One of the.” Secondly, with runes, they can be twisted and reversed which changes the meaning of the runes and in way, their shape. You can research the different meanings more. Also, they can overlap which can make it difficult to determine the intent behind them because 2 different symbols, when combined with another symbol, may look exactly the same.

Now on to the content.

What does this mean for Harry’s scar? It could mean many things. The first being that the runic symbol was part of the Hocrux magic LV was performing. The scar remained because the magic was never finished leaving the evidence of either the true magic behind the Hocrux magic or leaving the evidence of the AK. The other theory, which I like because it makes Harry more powerful, was that it was the magic Lily placed on Harry by sacrificing herself for him which presented itself after the magic was evoked or that it denotes a seperate power he has.

Regardless of the second theory, I believe that the scar on Harry’s head more likely has to do with the killing curse or the Hocrux magic. This is based on the belief that I know what ancient rune alphabet is being used and what a specific symbol means when it is reversed (which makes it look like Harry’s scar).

*Note: I will not discuss the meaning of the symbol on the spine of the cover. However, be forewarned that the meaning of the symbol on the spine is not as important as are its implications.

These are outside of my original theory but it connects well, hence their addition.

If you support the Lily theory, other questions you should ask was whether or not Harry or Lily were born with Green Eyes. I say this because despite my next theory, the possibility that Lily and Harry had green eyes is because of an old and ancient magic placed upon the both of them.

My next theory is on the eye color. We know that green eyes in the wizarding world are rare, maybe even as rare as a parselmouth. Maybe green eye color denotes an ability to use Runic magic. Now we know that Dumbledore told us that his power was “love,” and it may be that the overwhelming presence of runes in these books may not connect to eye color at all but just to the certain things mentioned above, however, Dumbledore has been proven wrong in ignoring Harry about the attack on the castle. In your research, you will discover why this magic and its use may be extremely important.


Please watch for a few during your study of Runes. The first are the glaring and obvious references associated with symbols known to us and their names. The second is the subtle addition of the study of Ancient Runes for Hermione and names she has used (someone had to know them). The third is to pay attention to the uses of Rune Lore with divination. Finally, have fun and don’t beat yourselves up over this. I have 4 years of study on this topic and I had a rough time with the Rune on the spine. I was more excited when it confirmed other theories I have (which I certainly will not post here because they are spoilers). Sorry I waited so long to post this, but I figured you guys needed something *ahem* NEW to debate.


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  #2  
Old May 15th, 2007, 12:42 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

well...actually...kinda didnt understand to much...but what i did understand i liked...i would like it though, if you went into depper explanation on the simbol on the side of the UK cover!!


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  #3  
Old May 15th, 2007, 12:50 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

I don't think the colour of his eyes are important. Jk said it was the fact that he has Lily's eyes that is important.

But I just read in another tread that Lily could have been powerless at the time of her death. Now if I combine that theory with some of yours. It could be that she transfered her powerd to Harry or something like that, using rune magic.


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  #4  
Old May 15th, 2007, 1:24 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Quote:
Originally Posted by skalors1 View Post
The shape of Harry’s scar is what tipped me off. It is more than a scar and more than a connection between Voldemort and Harry. It is an ancient rune.
But didn't JKR say in an interview that the actual shape of the scar wasn't the most significant thing about it? That the shape as well as it's location were so it would be easy for people to recognize and know that Harry was the boy who lived?


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Old May 15th, 2007, 1:41 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Harry's scar is significant because it ties him archetypically and symbolically to a greater cause and physically shows the pain he has felt through it with his "unhealable wound". It is also symbolic for the early loss of innocence that Harry suffered by being introduced to death at such a young age.


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  #6  
Old May 15th, 2007, 1:48 am
skalors1  Undisclosed.gif skalors1 is offline
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

PunkRockGirl, everything in JK's books has symbolism as well as a deeper meaning. I think that you're right, but it doesn't hit on the core issue as was proven in books 5 and 6. There is more to his scar than we know even now.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 2:01 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

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Originally Posted by skalors1 View Post
PunkRockGirl, everything in JK's books has symbolism as well as a deeper meaning. I think that you're right, but it doesn't hit on the core issue as was proven in books 5 and 6. There is more to his scar than we know even now.
As Madeline pointed out, though, I don't think the shape of his scar is significant.

JK"I wanted him to be physically marked by what he has been through. It was an outward expression of what he has been through inside. I gave him a scar and in a prominent place so other people would recognize him. It is almost like being the chosen one, or the cursed one, in a sense. Someone tried to kill him; that's how he got it. I chose the lightning bolt because it was the most plausible shape for a distinctive scar. As you know, the scar has certain powers, and it gives Harry warnings. I can't say more than that, but there is more to say."


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  #8  
Old May 15th, 2007, 2:07 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

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Originally Posted by skalors1 View Post
PunkRockGirl, everything in JK's books has symbolism as well as a deeper meaning. I think that you're right, but it doesn't hit on the core issue as was proven in books 5 and 6. There is more to his scar than we know even now.
i was saying that in broader way because what I was a little worried about touching on with the scar is what that means. Normally someone with this "unhealable" wound scenario will die because it is thier one weakness. Harry's weakness is the connection that he has to Voldemort- as it is the same for voldemort. I think that in looking at this in that way Harry's scar is only going to be significant in some way to how he must defeat Voldemort or how he will be deafeated.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 2:11 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

I never heard that anywhere. I am reading through JK's interviews now to verify.

I am going to comment on a few points (I had to recollect my memory): The first is in regards to JK saying having lily's eyes is important. Here is a quote from JK during an interview with CBBC Newsground in 2000.

"Now, can I ask you: are there any special wizarding powers in your world that depend on the wizard using their eyes to do something? Bit like..."
"Why do you want to know this?"
"I just vaguely wondered."
"Why?"
"Well because everyone always goes on about how Harry's got Lily Potter's eyes."
"Aren't you smart? There is something, maybe, coming about that. I'm going to say no more, very clever."

As to Madeline saying that the shape of Harry's scar was not important, JK said in a world book online chat that "The shape is not the most significant thing about Harry's scar." Which, again, coincides with my theory and even my thoughts on the matter. The meaning is not necessarily as important as what it implies.

PunkRockGirl, actually, JK says in an interview that Harry's worst weakness is shown with the fact that he wears glasses. I always interpreted this as meaning that Harry cannot see clearly without assistance.


  #10  
Old May 15th, 2007, 3:56 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

skalors 1 - I think this is a very interesting subject . I wish you would be a little more forthcoming with your ideas. You've read all about it, so why not just share what you know?

Folklore of the Runes branch off in several directions like a webwork underneath Rowling's work. She references them in many ways. There is the myth of Odin who is credited with the discovery of the Runes. He was the Hanged god" that inspired the "hanged man" card of Tarot. The god of poetry and war who could make the dead answer his questions. (I associate this myth with Snape-but it's open to interpretation). The legend of Odin prophesied that he was to be killed by Fenrir the Wolf.

Interesting to not that those who worshipped Odin also formed a sect under another name called the Irmin. Who 's followers were called the Hermiones (which IMO calls back to Hermione and Irma Pince.)

Then there's Harry's er- nickname "Roonil," which sound to me like "rune hill" and reminds me of the rune hills that poetry about Odin referred to.

Here’s what I found so far on the runes mentions above

Sowilo: (S: The sun.) Success, goals achieved, honor. The life-force, health. A time when power will be available to you for positive changes in your life, victory, health, and success. Contact between the higher self and the unconscious. Wholeness, power, elemental force, sword of flame, cleansing fire. Sowilo Merkstave (Sowilo cannot be reversed, but may lie in opposition): False goals, bad counsel, false success, gullibility, loss of goals. Destruction, retribution, justice, casting down of vanity. Wrath of god. (Link)
If I'm correct in my reading- Sigell, is correlated with "Sigtyr" was another name for the god Odin.

I can see where some controversy might spark over the "Sigel" rune symbol as it was used by the Nazis as their symbol for victory. However, I think most people understand that the original meaning behind the symbol can be extracted from that history.

Whether or not any of this tells us anything about where the stories are going to go - i doubt it. Only because Rowling is a postmodern writer who takes symbols from a wide variety of sources and scrambles them to fit a new context.

it's interesting to think about anyway...


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Last edited by Bscorp; May 15th, 2007 at 4:03 am. Reason: because spell check is good
  #11  
Old May 15th, 2007, 4:08 am
skalors1  Undisclosed.gif skalors1 is offline
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Bscorp, I am glad that you did a little research. As I said earlier though, the meaning of these runes is not nearly as important than their existence and what it implies. I guess it is hard for me to discuss it further on the board because it very well may ruin a good book for a lot of people.

I will send you a PM and we can discuss it more if you'd like. It is something for others to look into, but I don't really want to disilluson any person or their ideas.

The real point is that the presence of them, especially on the spine of the final book, is extremely significant if you understood more about them.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 4:34 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

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Originally Posted by skalors1 View Post
Bscorp, I am glad that you did a little research. As I said earlier though, the meaning of these runes is not nearly as important than their existence and what it implies. I guess it is hard for me to discuss it further on the board because it very well may ruin a good book for a lot of people.
. It seems you think you have the key to it all hu? Well you are in Divination

Well, If anything you could include your ideas in a Spoiler tag. But technically, I don't think you're able to spoil anything until you've actually read the book. I don't think your theories would be more or less spoiler-ish than any of the other theories I've read on this board and everywhere else. Until the day we've all read the book, we all may think we've figure it out but we don't know what's happening or where it will go exactly until July 21st.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 4:34 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

skalors1, I confess I find myself frustrated with you. How are we supposed to debate anything if you give us nothing to go on (except a few names which can be defined in a thousand different ways), then tell us it's almost useless to try and figure it out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bscorp
Well, If anything you could include your ideas in a Spoiler tag. But technically, I don't think you're able to spoil anything until you've actually read the book. I don't think your theories would be more or less spoiler-ish than any of the other theories I've read on this board and everywhere else. Until the day we've all read the book, we all may think we've figure it out but we don't know what's happening or where it will go exactly until July 21st.
Agreed.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 4:37 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Well, if no one cares, what do you want to know?

Btw Bscorp, Odin is credited as being the god of magick.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 4:40 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

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Originally Posted by skalors1 View Post
Well, if no one cares, what do you want to know?
Mkk how about the meaning of the Rune on the cover? Great Mother with her Divine Child... I looked it up, but found nothing. Is there another name for it?

I found stuff on the Bind Runes, however. It looked mildly intersting, but I still don't see the connection.

EDIT: Just refrenced the canon, and came across something interesting... if not something to chuckle at. Hemione was stressing over two Runes she thought she got mixed up on her OWLs in OoTP. They were none other than Ehwaz and Eihwaz. Doing some research on Ehwaz, I found that:
Quote:
The third rune of the third aett bears the reconstructed Common Germanic name Ehwaz. Later, its name became Aihws in Gothic (note how archaic Gothic is), and still later, Eh in Anglo-Saxon. If you remember that “k” in Indo-European changed to “h” in Germanic, it’s easy to see that Ehwaz is a close cognate to the Latin “equus,” meaning of course, “horse.”
Dan Radcliffe, anyone?
This reference goes on to say this about Ehwaz:
Quote:
Magical and divinatory meanings for Ehwaz include horse, journey, process, faithfulness, trust, dependability, transformation, loyalty, dignity, vacations, orderly change, travel for fun, seeking, driving, and piloting. Ehwaz, the horse-rune, takes us on our spiritual journey of inner transformation. Just as Odin rides Sleipnir, this rune can lead us into the inner realms of our being. Inner insight and growth are the vehicles of inner change as we explore (and experience) the Mysteries of our religion. Other runes involved in this journey are Sowilo (evolution), Perthro (seeking), and inspiration (Ansuz). These set the stage for Ehwaz. Elhaz imparts the will toward transformation.
I'm starting to see a little connection between Ehwaz and Sowilo... Everything I've seen on Ehwaz, however, makes a clear distinction between Ehwaz, the horse rune, and Eihwaz, the Yew rune. Incidently, Voldemort's wand is made out of Yew.

EDIT, CONT.: Are we liking Ehwaz to Harry and Eihwaz to Voldemort? Because the opponent of Ehwaz doesn't seem to be Eihwaz, but Tiwaz (which would make more sense as it was used by the Nazi's).

Please stop me if I am WAY off the mark here.


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Last edited by Frankie62446; May 15th, 2007 at 5:33 am.
  #16  
Old May 15th, 2007, 5:27 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

I did state my theory, but I guess I failed to hit any points at all. Let me first go on to say that I can't really give an answer to any questions about the meaning because while I may be able to identify the runes present in the rune bind, I am definately unable to intepret what reversals are present and their implications. Also, I have been stumped as to whether or not the line through the top are the following: is-i or isa, lagu or tyr. I bend towards lagu because if you study the symbol on the book closely it appears that the top left portion of the triangle is not complete and there is a minor gap there. However, the underlying theme for the rune bind on the spine of the cover involves life and the preservation of it.

As to my theory, well, you folks know the previous quotes that were posted on this thread, but I think one other quote from JK is EXTREMELY important. When asked the difference between charms and transfiguration, JKR responded "With a charm you add properties to something. With a transfiguration you change its nature completely; the molecular structure alters..." Another fact we need to remember is that Lily was extremely talented at charms.

Runes, in a magical sense, were meant to add magical properties to objects or items. In fact, one of Britains ancient hallows (or treasure, *they can sometimes be deadly*) was a the Dyrnwyn, gleddyf Rhydderch Hael (sp?) which had a rune of fire upon it. I don't think the properties matter in this instance.

Nonetheless, I think it is safe to say that the fact that Lily was an excellent charmer can possibly be attributed to an ability to use rune magic.

(Be patient, I am almost there)

The runes which can be most closely attributed to Harrys scar is the EIHWAZ or EOH rune which is a rune of protection and the SIGEL, SIGIL, SOWELU or SYGEL which is a rune of victory. Many rune alphabets attribute that there is no reverse to them, but there are some, especially english rune lore, which state that they can indeed be flipped to mean the opposite.

This can have a few implications for the last book. The first is that Harry, with some skill, can learn to use this rune lore to his advantage. It may be as simple a process as concentrating on a specific rune while casting a spell to imbue the spell with properties or concetrating on a person when casting a spell.

However, all evidence points to Lily placing that protection on Harry not being intentional. It doesn't mean that what she did still wasn't some sort of rune magic.

It also could have been part of the spell casting for Voldemorts Hocrux magic or it could be the underlying magic for the AK curse.

Nonetheless, if this is an ability that Harry posseses it will be a great aide to him.

We all know that Harry is going to learn something when he returns to Godrics Hallow. There is also a reason why Voldemort was insistent on letting Lily live. Could he have desired her abilities the same way he desired Slughorns? I think that he was asked to not harm lily, but that may not be the truth. He never had an intention to let James live. Her abilities may have been latent, but I think they were present and she was able to unknowingly use them. I think the real question we should be asking is if Nevilles mother was given the same options as Lily, and chose to die for Neville, would that protection have been placed on Neville as well?

Frankie, the symbol can most prominently be found in the Liber Mutus. It is the first symbol in a very long and complex explanation of Magic. It is the symbol where all other magical properties come from. In essence, it gives life.

Frankie,

To shed some more light on the subject for you, try to find references to the witches "tree of life."


  #17  
Old May 15th, 2007, 5:44 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Quote:
Elhaz is the seventh Rune of the second aett (group of eight). Its name means "elk," in the European sense of the word. The European elk is essentially the same animal as the North American "moose." The North American elk (wapiti) is a part of the same species as the European red deer.
Just reading into this a bit- For one. Harry's Patronus might be a metaphor for this rune.

Quote:
Elhaz has an alternative name, "Algiz," which means "protection," which is indeed one of the meanings of this Rune. The Gothic letter corresponding to Elhaz went by the name "Algis." Others include deer other than moose, hunting (what humans usually do to deer), hallowing (Elhaz is commonly used to ward/bless sacred space prior to a blot), anything regal (think of the dignity of a stag, or the fact that all the deer in England once belonged to the king), honor, and grandeur. (link)


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Last edited by Bscorp; May 15th, 2007 at 5:57 am. Reason: I misinterpreted the source..sorry.
  #18  
Old May 15th, 2007, 5:45 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

This is very confusing! I'm having to look up definitions for stuff I'm looking up definitions for! I'm starting to see little links, though I'm not quite sure how to put them together. I have 0% experience with Runes.

Tiwaz seems to be an upward pointing arrow... it means "Warrior" and represents the god Tyr. help me out here? I don't see the connection of Tiwaz to anyone.

According to a cource Tiwaz is...
Quote:
Honor, justice, leadership and authority. Analysis, rationality. Knowing where one's true strengths lie. Willingness to self-sacrifice. Victory and success in any competition or in legal matters. Tiwaz Reversed or Merkstave: One's energy and creative flow are blocked. Mental paralysis, over-analysis, over-sacrifice, injustice, imbalance. Strife, war, conflict, failure in competition. Dwindling passion, difficulties in communication, and possibly separation.
If I could see Tiwaz representing anyone, it's Hermione.


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Last edited by Frankie62446; May 15th, 2007 at 5:57 am.
  #19  
Old May 15th, 2007, 5:57 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

Frankie, the rune you are referring to is also known as Sigel. If you remember back to my first post, this is an extremely difficult subject. I brought this to peoples attentions to discuss what this might mean. I don't think the meaning of Harry's scar is as important a fact as whether or not it really is a rune. Because if it is a rune that became visible when the magic was evoked, then we have a million other questions to answer.


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Old May 15th, 2007, 6:10 am
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Re: The Key to Harry's scar and the Symbol on the Spine of Book Seven

just to make things clear- a rune is a symbol. Not a stone ( as I misjudged for a bit ) So I think (correct me if I'm wrong skalors1) what we're exploring is the idea that Harry's scar is a the image of a rune and that his mother placed this on him by her death- or maybe even before(?)

Quote:
Elhaz: This Rune is a two-edged sword, and can bode danger for anyone other than an experienced or gifted Vitki, or Rune Mage. One should not try to grasp this sword, but to become one with it. Brains, not brawn, will serve you well in problems faced at this time. This Rune generally does not signify persons, but rather divine or spiritual beings and/or forces. It can foretell an awakening of craft and cunning in the individual.
It is special because it was Lily who could do this and no one else from her experience in charms and and it may imply that she has some greater knowledge beyond just "charm" and "cheek." Perhaps she was a "Rune Mage"? No one else's son would have been privy to this kind of magic because it came from Lily. She obviously knew something that no one else did.

I like the idea of runes symbols changing meaning when inverted and I wonder if we can correlate that to the backfired AK spell and/ or to the whole Hanged man concept in general.

Perhaps it would be nice to list the symbols and what each on e means both straight and inverted?


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