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Old May 27th, 2007, 5:26 pm
torrik  Female.gif torrik is offline
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Fawkes

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we all know that fawkes left the grounds in HBP. but where has he gone and will he return for harrys final battle with voldermort???

only someone loyal to dumbledore could call fawkes to them does this mean he'll make a reappearance in the DH??

any thoughts??



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  #2  
Old May 27th, 2007, 7:34 pm
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Re: Fawkes

I thought he joined Dumbledore in his tomb? Phoenixes are highly faithful pets so I suppose he would want to stay with Dumbledore.. But if he isn't there, I think Harry is the obvious one to whom he will appear and who he will help. I cannot really think of anyone else who would have "earned" that..

He would bevery useful for Harry to have around: healing powers, transport (remember Dumbledore's flight from OotP?), messages (also OotP),phoenix song (lightens the heart of the good and brings fear to the wicked)...
I really hope JK will use Fawkes again! For me the Phoenix has become a symbol for the good side.
Oooh! And because 2 of his tailfeathers reside in the wands of Harry and Voldemort, would be interesting if he would be involved.


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Old May 27th, 2007, 8:12 pm
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Re: Fawkes

I was reading about the myth of the Phoenix and it said that only one Phoenix can exisist at a time, I wonder if this is true in Harry's world and Fawkes is the only one. It's also made me wonder about how old Fawkes is, according to mythology Phoenixes live from 500 years to 1,461 years.


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Old May 27th, 2007, 8:34 pm
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Re: Fawkes

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Originally Posted by hazel_eyes_21 View Post
I was reading about the myth of the Phoenix
Perhaps the best place to determine how J.K. Rowling feels about Phoenixes is Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.


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Old May 27th, 2007, 8:50 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel_eyes_21 View Post
I was reading about the myth of the Phoenix and it said that only one Phoenix can exisist at a time, I wonder if this is true in Harry's world and Fawkes is the only one. It's also made me wonder about how old Fawkes is, according to mythology Phoenixes live from 500 years to 1,461 years.
In truth, there are many different myths surrounding the Phoenix. It has put in an appearance in such diverse cultures as Egyptian, Chinese, Norse, Hindu, Judeo/Christian Mythos, and even Mayan/Incan/Aztec. Of course the creature goes by different names, but the premise is similar: Birth, Life, Death, Renewal. There is no clear account of the Phoenix.

JKR is known for taking a common mythical creature and giving it her own spin on the myth. In my (often not-so) humble opinion, I think that Fawkes is the key to Voldemort's immortality. He has achieved the ability to stave off death, but has not conquered it completely. A phoenix, on the other hand, is the only creature that the HP world has suggested is immortal. If Voldemort can harnass that power, he will become a living god.


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Old May 27th, 2007, 8:55 pm
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Re: Fawkes

i looked in fantastic beasts and where to find them and it said that a phoenix can disspear and reappear at will.....so fawkes can easily go now that dd is dead..and come back anytime he wants..he doesn't nessecarily have to stay with dd....


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Old May 28th, 2007, 2:38 am
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Re: Fawkes

Thanks Nicole! I'll look it up.

That was the myth I found on Wikipedia and it talked about the other variations too. I agree with you rigdoctorbri. Fawkes could be the key to LV immortality. Since Fawkes has left Hogwarts, where has he gone? (I think I've just asked the ultimate question about him ) I think he didn't leave Hogwarts, I think he maybe living in the Forbidden Forest. I know there's no cannon to support this idea but it would be interesting!


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Old May 28th, 2007, 8:04 am
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Re: Fawkes

Who knows... may be Fawkes will come to Harry's help in the gravest of situations as usual....


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Old May 28th, 2007, 8:19 am
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Re: Fawkes

Hello. Here is a link to an essay written about Fawkes.

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-fawkes.html

The author suggests that Fawkes may have been Godric Gryffindor's pet, originally. This is an interesting theory, although I am not quite sure why Voldemort's wand would then have a tail feather from Fawkes, because Voldemort is so closely linked to Slytherin. What do you think?



Last edited by missmisery; May 28th, 2007 at 8:20 am. Reason: adding more
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Old May 28th, 2007, 10:02 am
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by missmisery View Post
Hello. Here is a link to an essay written about Fawkes.

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-fawkes.html

The author suggests that Fawkes may have been Godric Gryffindor's pet, originally. This is an interesting theory, although I am not quite sure why Voldemort's wand would then have a tail feather from Fawkes, because Voldemort is so closely linked to Slytherin. What do you think?
Jo has shot down that one:
Edinburgh cub reporter press conference, 16th July 2005Peter Humphreys for BBC Newsround: Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play a vital role in the next book?

JK Rowling: I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve in this book, Fawkes is never there, and no, I am sorry, not in this book, I take that back. When Harry has previously seen the study with a different headmaster he saw it with Dippet and Fawkes was not there then. Fawkes is Dumbledore's possession, not a Hogwarts possession.

Fawkes was in Dumbledore's office during Voldemort's job interview (c. 1957), so he must have tamed him before then.


  #11  
Old May 28th, 2007, 8:04 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEye View Post
Jo has shot down that one:
Edinburgh cub reporter press conference, 16th July 2005Peter Humphreys for BBC Newsround: Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play a vital role in the next book?

JK Rowling: I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve in this book, Fawkes is never there, and no, I am sorry, not in this book, I take that back. When Harry has previously seen the study with a different headmaster he saw it with Dippet and Fawkes was not there then. Fawkes is Dumbledore's possession, not a Hogwarts possession.

Fawkes was in Dumbledore's office during Voldemort's job interview (c. 1957), so he must have tamed him before then.
The question is what gave Fawkes the idea of being tamed by Dumbledore? As what appears to be an immortal creature, living for perhaps thousands of years, why would he now choose a master, and so recently? My theory is that Fawkes has chosen Dumbledore because both he and Dumbledore knew that Voldemort has been after him to harnass his immortality. Dumbledore was not really Fawkes's owner, he was more of his guardian.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 8:46 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
The question is what gave Fawkes the idea of being tamed by Dumbledore? As what appears to be an immortal creature, living for perhaps thousands of years, why would he now choose a master, and so recently? My theory is that Fawkes has chosen Dumbledore because both he and Dumbledore knew that Voldemort has been after him to harnass his immortality. Dumbledore was not really Fawkes's owner, he was more of his guardian.
It all hinges on when Dumbledore tamed Fawkes (or vice versa). Fawkes must have given at least one feather prior to 1938 (when Riddle bought his wand), perhaps Dumbledore tried to tame the Phoenix because of that.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 8:48 pm
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Re: Fawkes

I don't know, but I bet he will be a major help to Harry in the 7th and final book!


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Old May 28th, 2007, 9:07 pm
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Re: Fawkes

I think it would be funny if fawks came in to save the day and then burst into flames. That would be a "twist" I'd be interested in reading.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 9:10 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEye View Post
It all hinges on when Dumbledore tamed Fawkes (or vice versa). Fawkes must have given at least one feather prior to 1938 (when Riddle bought his wand), perhaps Dumbledore tried to tame the Phoenix because of that.
I don't know when he came into the possession of Albus Dumbledore. I believe it was sometime between when Tom Riddle graduated and Lord Voldemort came for his job interview. That does leave a pretty big gap. I can't recall how long it was between Lord Voldemort's job interview and the end of Volde War I. For some reason 16 years sticks in my head.

At the point of the interview Dumbledore implies to Voldemort that he knows about his horcruxes, though he does not overtly say it. How would he know about it?

I believe that Fawkes maintains a connection to the feather that he contributed to Voldemort's wand. It tells him when the wand has been used for something so evil as either murder or creating a horcrux. When this happened, Fawkes came to Dumbledore seeking his help.

But Fawkes is an animal? Why would he care?

Obviously, Fawkes cares, that is why Phoenixes cry? That is why Phoenix tears have healing powers. They weep for those they care about, and their weeping gives healing. In this case Fawkes not only cares, but feels responsible for Voldemort's power.

There is another mystery. "It so happens that the phoenix whose tailfeather resides in your wand gave another feather. Just one other." When did he give the two feathers?

The first one he gave for no consequence. Of course, that one eventually made it to the hands of Tom Riddle. That one did not make a difference, except for Fawkes discovering that his tailfeather went to the wand of a mass murderer. Naturally, Fawkes was consumed with self-loathing and remorse.

I think he gave the second feather after Harry was marked by Voldemort. Fawkes knew, as did Dumbledore, about the Prophesy. When Harry survived it became obvious that Harry was the one of whom the Prophesy spoke. That would mean that Harry would have magical qualities that rival those of Lord Voldemort; and that if he were to donate another feather to the finest wandmaker in the land, Harry, and only Harry would be the one to get it, and use it to defeat Voldemort.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 9:49 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
I don't know when he came into the possession of Albus Dumbledore. I believe it was sometime between when Tom Riddle graduated and Lord Voldemort came for his job interview. That does leave a pretty big gap. I can't recall how long it was between Lord Voldemort's job interview and the end of Volde War I. For some reason 16 years sticks in my head.
The job interview was either December 1956 or the early months of 1957, while the end of the First War was Hallow e'en 1981 - so 24 and a half years.

Quote:
At the point of the interview Dumbledore implies to Voldemort that he knows about his horcruxes, though he does not overtly say it. How would he know about it?
Dumbledore could see the physical changes wrought on Voldemort for himself, he may have guessed there and then.

Quote:
There is another mystery. "It so happens that the phoenix whose tailfeather resides in your wand gave another feather. Just one other." When did he give the two feathers?
That quote sort of implies he gave them both at the same time. Then again, if Fawkes felt responsible for Voldemort's deeds he may have wanted to line up the balls for a hero to vanquish him.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 9:57 pm
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Re: Fawkes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
The question is what gave Fawkes the idea of being tamed by Dumbledore?
To be honest I always saw Fawkes more as Dumbledore's freind and companion rather than pet. I think he chose to be with him out of free will rather than Dumbledore deciding that a pheonix would be just what he needed to give his office a lift.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 10:16 pm
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Re: Fawkes

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Originally Posted by unconvinced View Post
To be honest I always saw Fawkes more as Dumbledore's freind and companion rather than pet. I think he chose to be with him out of free will rather than Dumbledore deciding that a pheonix would be just what he needed to give his office a lift.
Precisely.

The question still remains, though. What was Fawkes's motive for deciding upon Dumbledore?

According to lore, and depending on the source, Phoenixes live from 500 to 1461 years, and then build a nest of cinnamon twigs, ignite it and are consumed in the flames. They are then reborn in the ashes. This suggests an eternal life-cycle. Fawkes has already burst into flames twice in the story. Both times he returns as the identity of Fawkes. He does not become another Phoenix with a different name. With such a long, perhaps indefinite lifespan, and a free lifestyle, what could have driven Fawkes to seek out the only human companionship he has ever known from the greatest wizard of the day?

My answer is fear. Fawkes is, for the first time in his life, afraid. Though, I say he is not afraid for himself, but for the world. If Voldemort learns and harnasses the Lifeforce of Fawkes, there will be no way to undo him. He will be invincable.


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Old May 28th, 2007, 10:33 pm
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Re: Fawkes

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
depending on the source
It seems to me that the author of the HP books is the proper source. It would be best, therefore, to use her description of phoenixes found in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them since that's canon. (Doesn't hurt to discuss the myths/legends/beliefs of other cultures, but only where they don't conflict with what the author has written herself. For instance, Fawkes doesn't seem to need to build a nest of cinnamon twigs before bursting into flame. )


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Old May 28th, 2007, 11:00 pm
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Re: Fawkes

I'm sure Fawkes will make an appearance in DH, probably during the Final Battle. He has proved himself to be mysterious and powerful and therefore important, and important means that he will be needed, or at least show up, during that battle.

I am particularly adament about the fact that Fawkes was not "tamed" by anyone. My impression of Fawkes is that he is on a different (intellectual) level, and he chose Dumbledore to be his "master" because he percieved that Dumbledore was on the same level. That is, Dumbledore sees things differently than other humans, and perhaps this is why he is seen as so intelligent. He is more perceptive, at least. Fawkes chose Dumbledore because he percieved the similarities between the man and himself. Thus he gave himself to the service of the great man we call Albus Dumbledore. He did it out of choice, though, so he could easily have suddenly stop serving Dumbledore and just ran away. That's why I don't like the idea that Dumbledore "tamed" Fawkes--it is another way of saying that Dumbledore conquered Fawkes, or that Fawkes is serving Dumbledore because he has to, or has no choice but to do so. But Fawkes is a phoenix. Much stronger than a man. No man could conquer a phoenix, and thus Fawkes is acting out of his own free will when he serves Dumbledore. Makes me wonder what Dumbledore did to earn such loyalty. Save Fawkes's life? How would one save the life of a phoenix, because how would a phoenix's life ever be in danger?

This leads me to what Fawkes will do now, since the one that he has loyally served for so long is now gone (Dumbledore). Carry on what Dumbledore was trying to do? i.e., help Harry destroy Lord Voldemort by finding the horcruxes, and protecting Harry along the way. I can see Fawkes re-appearing at a time of great need (other than the Final Battle), surprising Harry, and helping Harry to get out of the sticky situation. Gradually he'll come to be loyal to Harry and help him in any way he can, and Harry might even become used to Fawkes's extraordinary weight on his shoulder. Fawkes can help Harry get ready for the Final Battle. I can't exactly say how he'll do it, but he will, trust me.

That's how I see it happening.

EDIT: I really like the idea presented earlier in this thread by rigdoctorbri--the one about Fawkes giving the second feather to atone for the giving the first feather because he feels responsible for what the feather is helping Voldemort's wand do. Makes a lot of sense. Phoenixes are definitely more than animals.


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Last edited by LeiaShadow; May 28th, 2007 at 11:04 pm.
 
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