The potion in the Horcrux Cave

[RegulusBlackFan]

One of the things that I just thought about after re-reading the Half Blood Prince was the poisonous potion in the Horcrux Cave that Dumbledore drinks (with Harry's support) to obtain the Horcrux. It turns out after Dumbledore's death off course, that the horcrux was fake and in the Deathly Hallows, that Regulus Black and his house elf Kreacher also drank it and suffered from it's morbid affects on the drinker many years earlier. This potion, along with the cave is one of Voldemort's own purpose built defenses and something that we don't know that much about. There was quite a lot of speculation among fans before the release of the deathly Hallows (including the identity of RAB and his story) and that sort of died out afterwards. Nevertheless, there have been some plot holes and simple mystries etc that have fascinated fans since the deathly hallows that I would like people's opinions on, here are some:

How could the potion be there for Dumbledore (and for Voldemort when he checked the Locket) to drink when Regulus had emptied it 16-17 years before, bearing in mind that Voldemort did need to refill it when he tested it with kreacher?

How much do we know about the effects on the drinker? Did Albus Dumbledore really see the duel that lead to his sister's death?

How did Regulus Black and Kreacher have enough strength to reach the water when Dumbledore clearly didn't (he fell unconscious and relied on Harry to get the water for him)?

Was Dumbledore's theory that 'He would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island, He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin' wrong?


Was the potion fatal to the drinker and how much did it actually contribute to Dumbledore's death?

Does Kreacher (and presumably Regulus and Albus had they lived) have to return to the cave to drink, because I believe it said that they were unable to drink water that did not come from the lake?

Was Regulus Black intending to live?

What do you think Regulus, Kreacher and Albus Dumbledore each saw?

How much do you think the potion contributed to Kreacher's bitter personality and unhealthy appearance?

What did you, as a reader think was going to happen to Dumbledore when got up to the bit where he was about to drink the potion? Were you suprised that Dumbledore was sacrificing himself? Did you think he was going to die?

[Goddess_Clio]

How could the potion be there for Dumbledore (and for Voldemort when he checked the Locket) to drink when Regulus had emptied it 16-17 years before, bearing in mind that Voldemort did need to refill it when he tested it with kreacher?

This is a good question, one to which I really have no good answer or even a guess. On the surface I would say that Voldemort refilled the bowl with potion that would magically refill itself if it were to be drunk again - but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense since Voldemort is clearly arrogant enough to think that no one would be able to find the cave let alone empty the bowl even once. He wouldn't fathom a scenario where the bowl would be emptied more times than that.

How much do we know about the effects on the drinker? Did Albus Dumbledore really see the duel that lead to his sister's death?

I always thought that Voldemort created a potion that was something like a liquid dementor attack. The drinker relives the worst moments of their lives and for Dumbledore it's the agony of not knowing if he was the cause of his sister's death.

How did Regulus Black and Kreacher have enough strength to reach the water when Dumbledore clearly didn't (he fell unconscious and relied on Harry to get the water for him)?

Kreacher didn't need the strength to reach the water's edge because Regulus summoned him home so he had to go. Regulus might have just barely made it to the water's edge, struggling with all his might to get there only to be drawn into the water with the inferi and die.

Was Dumbledore's theory that 'He would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island, He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin' wrong?


Superficially I think so. It seems evident that the drinker (assuming that only one person went to the island) would end up dying because of the insatiable need to drink something and once they realize that they can't use their wand and they have to drink from the lake they would end up being drowned by the inferi. Even assuming that it takes the person so long to drink the potion that Voldemort finds them laying on the island tortured by their worst memories who's to say they would have survived a significant amount of time on that island alone with no food and the only water source being one that would murder you if you drank it. Also, Voldemort didn't seem to have an alarm system set up in that cave so he'd know if anyone entered to have a looksy - otherwise he would have been alerted when Regulus and Kreacher went to steal the locket and would have been notified again when Harry and Dumbledore entered.

[b]Was the potion fatal to the drinker and how much did it actually contribute to Dumbledore's death?

I don't think the potion itself was fatal in that the drinker would die as a result merely of drinking it. The drinker would die at the hands of the inferi who would drown them as soon as they tried to quench their thirst.

I think it played a significant role in Dumbledore's death. It weakened him greatly and may have contributed to him being disarmed - he didn't the reflexes to cast two charms at once (which I think Dumbledore would absolutely be capable of doing; casting the petrifying one on harry and the disarming one on draco)

Does Kreacher (and presumably Regulus and Albus had they lived) have to return to the cave to drink, because I believe it said that they were unable to drink water that did not come from the lake?

Not IMO, no. Once out of the cave they would be able to summon water, make water flow from their wands, stop at a drinking fountain in a tube station... The only thing special about the lake water was that it was the only way in the cave to get water because of the magical embargo on water charms.

Was Regulus Black intending to live?

I don't think so.

What do you think Regulus, Kreacher and Albus Dumbledore each saw?

Dumbledore: his sister's death and the duel surrounding it.
Kreacher: possibly something along the lines of threats of cloths, of being set free
Regulus: We don't know anything about him, really. Maybe the thing that caused him to turn away from Voldemort, he might have had to do something that traumatized him like torture or kill someone he liked but who wasn't on Voldemort's side...

What did you, as a reader think was going to happen to Dumbledore when got up to the bit where he was about to drink the potion? Were you suprised that Dumbledore was sacrificing himself? Did you think he was going to die?

I thought "good for him." It didn't seem like a surprise that Dumbledore would sacrifice himself, especially on the heels of a comment like "you're blood is too valuable [to be spilled on the cave wall to open the doorway]. And on the heels of six books where Dumbledore is working like made to keep Harry alive so he can defeat Voldemort.

[Peakes]

I dare say the pedestal was enchanted to automatically replenish the contents over time, or after a certain amount of time had been passed. What I want to know is why they didn't just scoop the potion out using the crystal goblet and tip it away rather than drink it...

[merrymarge]

I am not sure if Regulus needed to reach the water to drink. It's possible once he drank the potion, he just laid down on the island and the Inferi climbed out of the water and dragged him into the lake.
I thought it was odd that the potion was clear after Dumbledore took the locket, but it was green even though Regulus exchanged lockets.
I think Dumbledore meant that the potion would not kill him right away, just to reassure Harry. How would Harry manage to take Dumbledore's body back to Hogwarts?
As for what Kreacher and Regulus saw, Kreacher said he saw terrible things, the potion also burned his insides.
Kreacher mentioned he was in terrible pain. Not sure what Regulus saw.
I think Dumbledore knew he was going to die because of the enchantment around the ring horcrux. Snape told him he was going to live for maybe a year and I am not sure when Dumbledore found out about when Draco was going to kill him. So, the potion he drank didn't really matter, it was just a way to get the locket out of the basin. I don't think the potion would have spilled out of the cup unless someone drank it. You had to put the cup to your lips, otherwise it would have stayed in the cup. Voldemort went to a lot of trouble to protect his locket, but in the end, it didn't matter.

[xhanax315]

Originally Posted by Peakes

I dare say the pedestal was enchanted to automatically replenish the contents over time, or after a certain amount of time had been passed. What I want to know is why they didn't just scoop the potion out using the crystal goblet and tip it away rather than drink it...

Wasn't it said in the book that the potion would magically would refill itself in the basin. That it couldn't be vanished or transfigured, that's why it needed to be drunk. They couldn't just toss it away, it would still be there.

[wolfbrother]

How could the potion be there for Dumbledore (and for Voldemort when he checked the Locket) to drink when Regulus had emptied it 16-17 years before, bearing in mind that Voldemort did need to refill it when he tested it with kreacher?

It looks like the basin would refill. The potion is back again when Voldemort goes to check it in DH. Why Voldemort refilled it in the first place, I don't know. It could be that he was putting a modified version of the potion that Kreacher drank.

How much do we know about the effects on the drinker? Did Albus Dumbledore really see the duel that lead to his sister's death?

Kreacher mentions that he saw terrible things when he drank it so I think Dumbledore would have relived that scene as well. The potions seems to make you relive your worst fears like Dementors.

How did Regulus Black and Kreacher have enough strength to reach the water when Dumbledore clearly didn't (he fell unconscious and relied on Harry to get the water for him)?

I don't think the potion took all your strength. I think it just left you drained. IMO if Dumbledore had been left alone, he would have come round eventually and then attempted to get water himself. Touching the water in the cave seemed to be the trigger for alerting the Inferi. Also, I think different people react differently to the potion. Kreacher didn't fall unconscious. Perhaps it was because his terrible visions were not as bad as the ones Dumbledore had in his old age.

Was Dumbledore's theory that 'He would not want immediately to kill the person who reached this island, He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin' wrong?

Yes I think so. Voldemort had no system for detecting intruders unless Dumbledore had detected and disabled it. If so, I think he had good reason to believe that the potion wouldn't kill him. If not, that was a risky move and I cannot understand what Voldemort's reasoning behind it was. Why didn't he make the potion fatal if he intended the drinker to die soon after by attempting to drink water and alerting the inferi?

Was the potion fatal to the drinker and how much did it actually contribute to Dumbledore's death?

No, it was not because Kreacher managed to survive. I think the potion weakened Dumbledore which is why I think he got disarmed. I'm not sure it made any difference in contributing to his death. If he really wanted to escape, he could have summoned Fawkes.

Does Kreacher (and presumably Regulus and Albus had they lived) have to return to the cave to drink, because I believe it said that they were unable to drink water that did not come from the lake?

No. Kreacher did not need to go to the cave every time he felt thirsty. I think the only reason no water was allowed in the cave was to force them to drink from the lake.

Was Regulus Black intending to live?

No. He told Kreacher to go home without him.

What do you think Regulus, Kreacher and Albus Dumbledore each saw?

Dumbledore saw the scene with Grindelwald and Ariana. We don't know enough of Kreacher and Regulus to know what their worst experiences were.

What did you, as a reader think was going to happen to Dumbledore when got up to the bit where he was about to drink the potion? Were you suprised that Dumbledore was sacrificing himself? Did you think he was going to die?

I was as tense as Harry was. I did not think that he was sacrificing himself. I expected him to deal with the potion. I did think he would die after all the references Harry made to how weak Dumbledore was and how faint his voice was.

[RegulusBlackFan]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

Not IMO, no. Once out of the cave they would be able to summon water, make water flow from their wands, stop at a drinking fountain in a tube station... The only thing special about the lake water was that it was the only way in the cave to get water because of the magical embargo on water charms.

'The goblet filled with clear water; Harry dropped to his knees beside Dumbledore, raised his head and brought the glass to his lips - but it was empty' HBP chapter 26 the cave, page 537.

It appears that it was possible to summon water and that it did vanish as soon as it went into the direction of the potion drinker's mouth. What i'm thinking is that the drinker is unable to drink conjured water, possibly for the rest of their lives. I wonder how this would affect their lives after leaving the cave.

[merrymarge]

No one was supposed to leave the cave. Once a person drank the potion, they had to drink from the lake and once you go close to the lake to drink the water, the Inferi pulled you into the lake.