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Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis



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  #121  
Old February 26th, 2009, 5:16 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
But Regulus realised how wrong Voldemort was because of his treatment of Kreacher. The Blacks, who had a collection of house-elf heads on their wall, weren't supportive of elf rights in general, so Regulus must have changed his opinions to some extent. I don't think that he became liberal and unbiased overnight but he couldn't have gone on like before.
I don't know if Regulus changed his opinions, wonder if he joined Voldmeort because he actually believed in him or because his parents expected him to. Bellatrix, Narcissa were already DEs/wife of a DE and Andromeda and Sirius had been thrown out because they were different. And seeing how Andromeda and Sirius were treated could have influenced Regulus too, along with the glory he may thought he would bring back home, by serving Voldemort.

I think he had a very good relationship with Kreacher; Kreacher was probably one person, who loved and looked up to him for himself in that place and Regulus could have seen himself as Kreacher's protector, which he actually was at the end.

If Regulus joined only because of his parents, much like Draco, who had no idea of what being a DE was, then I think he would have been horrified about the horcrux and seeing Kreacher's treatment at the hands of Voldemort and would have resigned from the DE membership.


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  #122  
Old February 26th, 2009, 9:11 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by TonytheTerrible View Post
Regulus was not really a "defender of house-elves", since he all but gave him up in service for the dark lord, while Harry did his share of caring for both Kreacher and Dobby. Thoughts?
Kreature was very obviously cared a great deal about Regulus, and it was only when Harry et al convinced him that they were trying to continue Regulus's work to destroy the locket that he started to be nice to them.

Also I would argue that as far as Kreature is concerned Regulus is the defender of House Elves - after all he gave his life to save Kreature. I think that alone would earn him the tittle "defender of house-elves" in Kreatures mind - who else have we, or Kreature, ever seen who did that?


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  #123  
Old February 26th, 2009, 10:05 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Also I would argue that as far as Kreature is concerned Regulus is the defender of House Elves - after all he gave his life to save Kreature. I think that alone would earn him the tittle "defender of house-elves" in Kreatures mind - who else have we, or Kreature, ever seen who did that?
I respect your view, however, I would respectfully disagree. I would argue that while it is true Regulus took the poison rather than forcing it upon Kreacher as Voldemort had, that speaks more to respect and value for the life of another rather than a personal decision based on who the "other" was. Moreover, Regulus knew that he was a walking dead man at the time. The moment Voldemort discovered his defection from the Death Eaters and his treachery, he would be hunted and killed. His decision to drink may have been based upon the idea of dying for a good cause rather than being tortured and killed at the hands of Voldemort and the other DEs. Also, Regulus' primary goal was not to save Kreacher, but rather to ensure that Voldemort would not live 'forever' by and through the horcrux he'd created.

So I feel that the assertion that Regulus gave his life to save Kreacher is incorrect in spirit - if true in terms of drinking the poison instead of forcing Kreacher to do so. Imo, Kreacher's loyalty to Regulus was not based on some kind of familial mutual love the two shared - but rather, like Mrs. Black, Kreacher was loyal to his master who in his view, was in his corner. And I am sure Kreacher appreciated that in the end, Regulus had not treated him in the manner Voldemort had.


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  #124  
Old February 26th, 2009, 2:05 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
If Regulus joined only because of his parents, much like Draco, who had no idea of what being a DE was, then I think he would have been horrified about the horcrux and seeing Kreacher's treatment at the hands of Voldemort and would have resigned from the DE membership.
I think there are similarities beteen Draco and Regulus but neither of them joined just because of their parents. They did certainly not know what to expect (much like young recruits in any war) but I doubt that their only motivation was to make mum and dad proud. As far as we know, Draco never changed his opinion about Muggle-borns and pure-blood supremacy. He married a pure-blood. Regulus did change, in my view, but for that he had to be convinced of his family's world view before.


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  #125  
Old February 26th, 2009, 4:00 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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8. Did he truly believe the Slytherin mentality?
9. Do you think that his change of mind was affected by Sirius being a Gryffindor?

I will only answer my opinions of these two questions at this time...

Did he truly believe in the Slytherin mentality?

The Sorting Hat is clear on its selections and sortings. Even when it has trouble deciding, it "stand(s) by what (it) says". Though, admittedly, it only sorts at a young age, and doesn't take into account life's experiences which will have a future influence.

I don't think a single character wholey exemplifies any one house, even Voldemort (exceptional mind, courage-though perverted to a fault). There is always something about them that represents a bit of one or more of the other houses. Some of these characters come to embrace these latent traits, perhaps to the point that their original sorting is erroneous. I don't think that Regulus A Black is any different.

However, I don't think his apple fell too far from the tree, even in adulthood.

Regulus must have been intelligent enough to discern the implications to the world of an Immortal Voldemort. He then, just as Harry did, accepted that his death was imminent, and welcomed it for "the greater good". Would that make him fall from Slytherin? I think not. Slytherins don't necessarily only do what is going to save their own skins. They are not automatons; they are capable of making choices.

What really screams that he never strayed from Slytherin is his continued inclusion on the Family Tree of Black. Granted, he could obviously keep a secret, but had he really strayed from the ideals of Slytherin as a whole his mother would have erased his name from the Family Tree, and, thus, erased him from her life.

9. Do you think that his change of mind was affected by Sirius being a Gryffindor?

I don't really think it had anything to do with that. Sirius was the admitted....ahem...Black Sheep of the Black Family. Regulus could be compared to Petunia Dursely in this fashion. Though both were/are rather repugnant, in the end both made a choice to do what is right; Petunia perhaps less so than Regulus. That right choice was probably fueled by choosing the lesser of two evils in Regulus's case. I doubt it was out of altruism, and almost certainly had nothing to do with Sirius or him being a Gryffindor.


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  #126  
Old February 26th, 2009, 9:23 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by TonytheTerrible View Post

My question is this: Did Kreacher refer to Harry in his first sentence, while referring to Regulus by name in the second? Regulus was not really a "defender of house-elves", since he all but gave him up in service for the dark lord, while Harry did his share of caring for both Kreacher and Dobby. Thoughts?
Kreacher does say, "Fight for my Master" and by this point he had accepted Harry as his master, so I think "defender of house elves" must mean Harry too. Regulus had technically never been his master, as his parents were still alive and they owned Kreacher. Not that I expect that made a lot of difference in Kreacher's mind! Kreacher did seem to respond to kindness, which is what reconciled him to Harry, so if Regulus was kind to him, I expect he'd have given his elfish loyalty to Regulus.

It sounded as if Regulus had no idea what Voldemort would want the elf for - he was proud to be able to serve the Dark Lord, but I don't think he thought Voldemort would harm Kreacher. It's a bit like lending the family dog to someone you admire and then finding out they'd tried to kill it. It would make anyone think twice. My take on it is that the shock of finding that Voldemort had left the elf to die, compounded by the fact that Voldemort had created a horcrux through deliberate murder, would have sickened Regulus and determined him to do what he could to spite Voldy.


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  #127  
Old February 27th, 2009, 8:16 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I think there are similarities beteen Draco and Regulus but neither of them joined just because of their parents. They did certainly not know what to expect (much like young recruits in any war) but I doubt that their only motivation was to make mum and dad proud.
It have been like this?

Draco seems to be loved and pampered even, much like James (instead of Regulus). Draco's parents were dark and James's light. And both boys followed what they had been taught.

Could Regulus, seeing the trouble Sirius got into for defiance, toed the line for acceptance from his parents? He got that acceptance from Kreacher and they actually went on to develop a bond of sorts, so could have Regulus been the "good" child, because he did not want to suffer like Sirius who was blasted off from the Black tapestry. Children are far more sensitive to such things and Regulus may have followed until he came to a point where he just could not follow anymore and then changed.


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  #128  
Old February 27th, 2009, 9:19 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

Well Regulus is 'the lawgiver' among the stars and Sirius the 'heart', so I think their names tell the tale. Regulus was the law abiding son and guided by his parent's rules, whereas Sirius was guided by his heart. Later Regulus changed, but that seemed to be his initial way of being anyway. JKR was kinda big on names, .


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  #129  
Old February 28th, 2009, 4:08 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Well Regulus is 'the lawgiver' among the stars and Sirius the 'heart', so I think their names tell the tale. Regulus was the law abiding son and guided by his parent's rules, whereas Sirius was guided by his heart. Later Regulus changed, but that seemed to be his initial way of being anyway. JKR was kinda big on names, .
I'd never thought of that! Good point!


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  #130  
Old March 8th, 2009, 7:09 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
However, I don't think his apple fell too far from the tree, even in adulthood.

Regulus must have been intelligent enough to discern the implications to the world of an Immortal Voldemort. He then, just as Harry did, accepted that his death was imminent, and welcomed it for "the greater good". Would that make him fall from Slytherin? I think not. Slytherins don't necessarily only do what is going to save their own skins. They are not automatons; they are capable of making choices.
I agree on this point - we are told that Slytherins "use any means to achieve their ends". These ends are not always "stay alive at all costs", as seems to be a common assumption. That is Voldemort's goal, not necessarily every Slytherins. In this case, the "ends" Regulus wanted to achieve were to ensure that Voldemort was mortal. And if he had to die to ensure that, so be it. It was probably also a factor that death by poison/Inferi was going to be a sight less painful than the death that awaited a traitor to the Dark Lord, but Regulus also had his goal in mind. If he only wanted to save his own skin, he would have done nothing about what he knew and continued to serve Voldemort.What really screams that he never strayed from Slytherin is his continued inclusion on the Family Tree of Black. Granted, he could obviously keep a secret, but had he really strayed from the ideals of Slytherin as a whole his mother would have erased his name from the Family Tree, and, thus, erased him from her life.



Quote:
Could Regulus, seeing the trouble Sirius got into for defiance, toed the line for acceptance from his parents? He got that acceptance from Kreacher and they actually went on to develop a bond of sorts, so could have Regulus been the "good" child, because he did not want to suffer like Sirius who was blasted off from the Black tapestry. Children are far more sensitive to such things and Regulus may have followed until he came to a point where he just could not follow anymore and then changed.
I wouldn't rule out a combination of sibling rivalry and a desire to have his parents' approval. It is possible that Regulus went to the extreme of becoming a Death Eater in light of Sirius going so far in the other direction. He could also have been influenced by his cousin Bella being a Death Eater.


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  #131  
Old April 27th, 2009, 7:04 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

1. How did Regulus figure out what the horcrux was, and where?
I'm not sure. Are we ever told?

2. Did he think there was only one?
Yes, besides Slughorn. However, I don't think Slughorn actually knew what Riddle had done, I think he just had a general idea.

3. Did he and Sirius fight, get along, or not care about the other?
I believe that Sirius didn't really care for his brother, considering he was into his parents pureblood-mania. However, I do believe they fought a lot since they were in opposing houses. I think it had to do with more about what each other thought was right.

4. Why didn't he make Kreacher drink the potion again?
I think that in the end, Regulus had come to the conclusion that he wouldn't have lasted against Voldemort, so he gave himself up. He had to send Kreacher home so he could destroy the locket.

5. How did he get Kreacher on his side?
What?

6. Did he die of the potion?
I don't think so. I think he died because he gave himself up into the lake. He didn't attempt to save himself.

7. Is he now one of the inferi in the cave?
I don't know. We seen him floating around, at least I think that was him. I think he was just a soul.

8. Did he truly believe the Slytherin mentality?
I believe he did, but when he found out what Voldemort had done, I think he came to see the error of his ways.

9. Do you think that his change of mind was affected by Sirius being a Gryffindor?
Maybe, but I don't think so.


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  #132  
Old April 27th, 2009, 7:18 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by xhanax315 View Post
1. How did Regulus figure out what the horcrux was, and where?
I'm not sure. Are we ever told?
Kreacher must have told him. More precisely, Kreacher would have described the cave and the protections of the locket Voldemort hid in it, and the question that remains unanswered, as I see it, is "How, knowing the location of the locket, did Regulus figure out that it was a Horcrux?"

I figure the answer may be that he heard Voldemort boasting about how he had taken measures against death (Voldemort mentions in GoF his Death Eaters should have known he took such measires), and then put two and two together and guessed what the locket was.

Quote:
4. Why didn't he make Kreacher drink the potion again?
I think that in the end, Regulus had come to the conclusion that he wouldn't have lasted against Voldemort, so he gave himself up. He had to send Kreacher home so he could destroy the locket.
I think he was also unwilling to subject Kreacher to that again. It appears to me that Voldemort's cruelty set Regulus against him in the first place...


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  #133  
Old April 27th, 2009, 7:32 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
Kreacher must have told him. More precisely, Kreacher would have described the cave and the protections of the locket Voldemort hid in it, and the question that remains unanswered, as I see it, is "How, knowing the location of the locket, did Regulus figure out that it was a Horcrux?"

I figure the answer may be that he heard Voldemort boasting about how he had taken measures against death (Voldemort mentions in GoF his Death Eaters should have known he took such measires), and then put two and two together and guessed what the locket was.



I think he was also unwilling to subject Kreacher to that again. It appears to me that Voldemort's cruelty set Regulus against him in the first place...

Yes, you're right. I had forgotten that Voldemort needed the service of an elf. And yeah, I agree with your second statement as well.


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  #134  
Old April 27th, 2009, 9:53 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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I think he was also unwilling to subject Kreacher to that again. It appears to me that Voldemort's cruelty set Regulus against him in the first place...
I don't think so. To me that makes little sense in light of the fact that the death eaters were killing and torturing everyone and their mother. I think that regulus simply didn't want Voldemort to rule the world. I dout Regulus would have sent Kreacher to Voldemort in the first place if he was worried on that front. I don't think he particularly liked what Voldemort did, but I have to imagine he expected something along those lines. Voldemort wasn't exactly a gentle loving soul...


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  #135  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:04 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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I think he was also unwilling to subject Kreacher to that again. It appears to me that Voldemort's cruelty set Regulus against him in the first place...
I agree. I don't think Regulus thought Voldemort would treat Kreacher with such disregard and cruelty, especially belonging to one of his DE's who faithly allowed his House Elf to serve him. I think that treatment of someone Regulus cared about brought home to him, just how awful Voldemort was.



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  #136  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:31 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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I figure the answer may be that he heard Voldemort boasting about how he had taken measures against death (Voldemort mentions in GoF his Death Eaters should have known he took such measires), and then put two and two together and guessed what the locket was.
I think there is a good chance Kreacher would have told him that. Did not Dobby know that the Diary was an evil and dark object? I think it's possible that it was Kreacher who alerted Regulus to what Voldemort had hidden in the cave and Regulus could have been horrified.

I have a question in turn. Why did Voldmeort choose Regulus's house elf, when he could have used Bella or Lucius's? They were elder and they were fanatic and firm followers of Voldmeort? Why Kreacher? Was it because of the elder Blacks? Did they offer Kreacher? If they did, did they know about the horcruxes?


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  #137  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:38 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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I have a question in turn. Why did Voldmeort choose Regulus's house elf, when he could have used Bella or Lucius's? They were elder and they were fanatic and firm followers of Voldmeort? Why Kreacher? Was it because of the elder Blacks? Did they offer Kreacher? If they did, did they know about the horcruxes?
I thought Regulus himself had volunteered Kreacher. All that Kreacher had said was that his master told him the Dark Lord needed a the service of a house-elf, right?


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  #138  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:51 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

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I thought Regulus himself had volunteered Kreacher. All that Kreacher had said was that his master told him the Dark Lord needed a the service of a house-elf, right?
I don't remember. (runs to book) Yes! Voldemort wanted an elf and Regulus volunteered Kreacher.


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  #139  
Old April 28th, 2009, 10:51 am
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

I agree he did volunteer him, but I don't really see why he wouldn't - the house elves were rather considered property. I don't think by all, but by the Blacks and Malfoys, and that lot, I believe they were.

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I agree. I don't think Regulus thought Voldemort would treat Kreacher with such disregard and cruelty, especially belonging to one of his DE's who faithly allowed his House Elf to serve him. I think that treatment of someone Regulus cared about brought home to him, just how awful Voldemort was.
I think Regulus knew the chore would be a nasty one because otherwise Voldemort would use his regular minions - Lucius, or Snape or himself, etc. I don't think Regulus cared about Kreacher in particular - he was just not mean to him, nor was Mrs. Black. So Kreacher was very loyal. But I do think once Kreacher told Regulus what was up, he was deterimned to put an end to Voldemort - not for a house elf, but because he didn't wish him to live forever, that is what he said in his note, he doens't mention Kreacher or his treatment of others. It isn't like Regulus wasn't out killing with all the rest of them and Voldemort - so it would be no realization for him to see his elf tortured.


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  #140  
Old May 7th, 2009, 11:00 pm
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Re: Regulus Arcturus Black: Character Analysis

Regulus died in 1979, when he was only eighteen years old. He was apparently at the start of his N.E.W.T. year at Hogwarts, judging from the fact that he was a year behind Sirius and the Marauders had their N.E.W.T.'s in June of 1979.

Was he attending classes, and went out to the cave-lake on a weekend or a school break (Christmas break, perhaps)? Or was he too busy being a DeathEater and not going to Hogwarts anymore?

Seems to me Walburga would not have been as pleased with him if he'd left Hogwarts before getting his N.E.W.T.'s, but wouldn't it have caused a bit of an uproar at Hogwarts if the Slytherin House Seeker (possibly its prefect) had gone missing over the Fall season?


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