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Did the Marauders know everything about the castle?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 15th, 2006, 3:11 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Did the Marauders know everything about the castle?

I know that Lupin says that "the Maurader's map never lies" when he proves that Pettigrew is still alive. However, I've always wondered how the four students knew so much about the castle, and if there isn't more to find out.

I think that the map is completely truthful in showing where people are inside the castle, but I think the Mauraders might not have found all the hidden passages or secrets of the castle. Even Dumbledore admits (to Karkaroff in GOF) that he doesn't know or pretend to know everything about the castle, and he's been there the longest out of anyone. (Not to mention his exceptional brainpower.)

However, if the map is always correct, perhaps Harry can use it to find another horcrux that may be hidden in Hogwarts. I'm sure if he prodded it and asked it a few questions it would point him in some sort of right direction.


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  #2  
Old May 15th, 2006, 3:50 pm
snowgoose  Female.gif snowgoose is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

I think the map never gets it wrong when it comes to people and their position. I don't think the map is completely accurate in it's knowledge of the castle. Fred and George claim to have had it since the first year, if the map had all of the castle's hidey holes on it, they would have known where the chamber of secrets was, and they would have seen Ginny's name on the map when she was taken.


  #3  
Old May 15th, 2006, 3:53 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Good point, but perhaps part of the magic behind the chamber was to make it unplottable, like the room of requirement when Malfoy is using it. Maybe there are loads more of unplottable passageways and rooms that the map can't show.


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Old May 15th, 2006, 3:55 pm
Amortentia  Female.gif Amortentia is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

I will say this, only the heir of slytherin knew of the chamber of secrets, so this would not be on the map. I feel that yes their are other secrets on the map that the boys never found out.


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  #5  
Old May 15th, 2006, 4:07 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Since Voldemort thinks he's the only one who knows about the chamber (and who will be able to even open it via parselmouth) perhaps he hid one of his horcruxes there. It would be an ideal hiding place--protected by the spells of the castle as well as his assurance that only he can penetrate the language barrier.


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Old May 15th, 2006, 4:12 pm
SarahDK  Female.gif SarahDK is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Perhaps your right ? but cant imagine Voldemort to hide a piece of his soul, so close to Dumbledore and his followers... ?

But on the other hand, who would ever imagine that ? it would be a great place to hide it, because no one would over think about searching at Hogwarts.


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  #7  
Old May 15th, 2006, 4:33 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

He would have felt confident hiding his horcrux in the chamber because even Dumbledore can't penetrate the chamber because he doesn't speak parseltongue. (I think he understands it to a certain extent, however, because he could seemingly understand the memory in which Merope, Marvolo, and Morfin are conversing in parseltongue.) I just think he can't speak it, which makes the chamber secure for a horcrux.


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  #8  
Old May 15th, 2006, 5:06 pm
LetsGoToWar  Female.gif LetsGoToWar is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

We know the diary is linked to the chamber of secrets so why would he pick another hocrux to associate it. I don't think he'd hide one in there especially since he knows his diary is supposed to open it.


  #9  
Old May 15th, 2006, 6:46 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Yes, the diary is linked to the chamber, but it wasn't hidden there. Voldemort gave it to Lucius Malfoy for safekeeping. Plus, the diary didn't have apparent instructions on how to open the chamber; it took Ginny a while before the diary started controling her, and even then, she didn't realize where the entrance was or what she was doing. And also, Voldemort didn't expect anyone to get the diary until he told Lucius to give it away, so he would know whoever recieved it and make sure he/she didn't disturb a horcrux hidden in the chamber if he/she did find out how to get in.


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  #10  
Old May 15th, 2006, 7:01 pm
Susansuth  Female.gif Susansuth is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Hmmm...that's interesting!

My brain is like a sieve these days and I'm at work where I have no books with me (darnit!). I've checked out the timeline at HP Lexicon and they indicate that Tom Riddle didn't start making his horacruxes until after Myrtle is killed by the basilisk and the chamber of secrets was opened the first time and Hagrid is expelled. (He uses the murders of his father and grandparents for the first horacruxes, I believe.)

I would venture to say that Tom, after successfully getting Hagrid blamed and expelled for opening the chamber of secrets, is unlikely to open it again to hide a horacrux while still at school, especially under the watchful eye of Dumbledore.

Tom/Voldemort does like to hide his horacruxes in personally significant places (e.g. the cave where he did God knows what to those children). But I think the fact that the piece of the soul in the diary that led Ginny and then Harry to the chamber of secrets is probably the only connection that the horacruxes will have with that particular hiding place.

As far as the original question, I think the map accurately reflects what the Marauders actually knew about the castle. But I don't think they knew everything there was to know.


  #11  
Old May 15th, 2006, 7:08 pm
snowgoose  Female.gif snowgoose is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Voldermort, to my knowledge didn't return to the school for long enough to open the chamber and leave a horcrux there, once he had graduated. I know he came for an interview with Dumbledore to get a post as DDA but I would have imagined that Dumbledore kept a close eye on him whilst in the school. The only time, to my knowledge that Voldermort had access to the COS was during his time at school. I don't think that by that point he had committed any murders, so therefore would not have made any horcruxes.He may have been scheming and plotting, he may have been a very careful bully, but I don't think he actually committed any murders and I don't think Myrtle counts. I think you have to kill the person yourself to be able to creat a horcrux, not do it by proxy.
I agree COS was probably unplottable, and I agree with the previous point, the map was as accurate as the marauders could make it, but there is obviously stuff they didn't know.


  #12  
Old May 15th, 2006, 7:12 pm
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

I do think the map is always right, but Lupin says they know more than anyone about hogwarts and hogsmead but I dont think that means they know everything, a castle around as long a Hogwarts must have many secrets. I just think they may have done more exploring than any other students.


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  #13  
Old May 15th, 2006, 7:17 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

If the map doesn't show anything, then, perhaps there are other hidden chambers... maybe something of Gryffindor or Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff's...

I know it's far-fetched, but it's possible.


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Old May 15th, 2006, 7:52 pm
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

I always found it interesting that Hagrid's Hut isn't on the map. Is his hut unplottable for some reason? Wormtail knew that it was unplottable and that's where he chose to go and hide after faking his death by Crookshanks.


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  #15  
Old May 15th, 2006, 8:15 pm
3rdWeasley_twin  Male.gif 3rdWeasley_twin is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

i think that would be really cool if the map helps harry. If a horcrux is indeed hidden somewhere inside of hogwarts, then the marauders map will be very helpful. I like it how JKR alwasy uses things that she introduced in previous books. (EX: the necklace that katie bell touches and makes her get cursed.... JKR introduces this to us in CoS when harry is hiding in the cabinet in Borgin and Burkes, and malfoy is looking around)

JKR rules!


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Old May 15th, 2006, 8:28 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

I think the map will play a big role; it obviously has other powers besides being a map--remember when it insults Snape? Maybe if Harry just asks it a few questions it can help.

I also think the Sorting Hat will come into play again. It was once Gryffindor's hat, and it's the help that Fawkes thought to bring Harry in his moment of need. It also contained Gryffindor's sword. I think that the object--so steeped in Gryffindor history--will help Harry. If he puts it on and asks it questions, perhaps it can help him.


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Old May 15th, 2006, 8:39 pm
3rdWeasley_twin  Male.gif 3rdWeasley_twin is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheercheek
I think the map will play a big role; it obviously has other powers besides being a map--remember when it insults Snape? Maybe if Harry just asks it a few questions it can help.

I also think the Sorting Hat will come into play again. It was once Gryffindor's hat, and it's the help that Fawkes thought to bring Harry in his moment of need. It also contained Gryffindor's sword. I think that the object--so steeped in Gryffindor history--will help Harry. If he puts it on and asks it questions, perhaps it can help him.
i totally agree with you!


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Old May 16th, 2006, 12:39 am
62442al_Man  Male.gif 62442al_Man is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

As Dumbledore has said, not even he knows everything that Hogwarts has to offer.

We already know that the Maruaders did not know about the Room of Requirement. It is obvious that they knew more than ordinary students. They didn't know about the Chamber of Secrets, either. Just two examples of the many rooms and secrets that Hogwarts holds. They do not know everything that Hogwarts has to offer. I doubt anyone does. Not even the founders, probably. Things have been added, I'm sure, but the founders, the Maurders, and anyone who has come across the Marauders Map are the few people who know the many secrets of Hogwarts, but definetely not all of them. I wonder whether Riddle knew these things. . .


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Old May 16th, 2006, 5:21 am
hwyla  Female.gif hwyla is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgoose
Voldermort, to my knowledge didn't return to the school for long enough to open the chamber and leave a horcrux there, once he had graduated. I know he came for an interview with Dumbledore to get a post as DDA but I would have imagined that Dumbledore kept a close eye on him whilst in the school. The only time, to my knowledge that Voldermort had access to the COS was during his time at school. I don't think that by that point he had committed any murders, so therefore would not have made any horcruxes.He may have been scheming and plotting, he may have been a very careful bully, but I don't think he actually committed any murders and I don't think Myrtle counts. I think you have to kill the person yourself to be able to creat a horcrux, not do it by proxy..
Well, I agree about Myrtle - mostly because I think she was an accident. Tom actually didn't have a lot of control over her opening up her stall door and then coming face to face with a basilisk. We're not even sure he knew she was in the bathroom.

However - Tom also killed his father and muggle grandparents that next summer (between his 5th and 6th year). So, he DID have the appropriate murders. And the Ring.

However (again), he seems to have NOT made a Horcrux in Slug's memory (he's asking HOW) which took place in his 7th year and was apparently towards the end of the year (he asked about the retiring DADA teacher).


  #20  
Old May 16th, 2006, 6:43 pm
sheercheek  Female.gif sheercheek is offline
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Re: Did the Mauraders know everything about the castle?

Yes, I know the chamber was far-fetched, but it seemed like a likely possiblity--perfectly protected and steeped in Slytherin history. And it would be cool if JKR brought it back because it was so huge at one time and is so historical to just forget about after book two... maybe Harry will find some more info there; you never know!


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