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Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4



 
 
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  #121  
Old July 30th, 2011, 8:35 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Perhaps, but I don't think it makes for anything jarringly unrealistic. I mean, we Muggles put a man on the moon before we were able to invent the mobile phone, and to other societies that might seem completely ridiculous. Such things are inevitable in anything because there is no one with an overview of the process of scientific advancement who is pulling the strings and deciding where progress should be made.
But you're using as examples scientific advancements, and I'm addressing magical restrictions. I don't think I would necessarily have agreed that it was impossible to land people on the moon, and thankfully that outcome had decades of research behind it because of a conscious effort to achieve it by thousands of individuals. It seems utterly impossible to me that any one author could achieve a similar complexity of possibilities, no matter how entertaining the result may be.

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
To me, it is one thing for something to be shown to be possible and not be utilized when it could be, and quite another for us to suppose that something should be possible based on our personal sense of logic.
As I said, I'm rather more concerned with things said to be impossible for no reason other than that they would have too quickly facilitated or obviated plot developments. Do you believe this did not occur throughout the books?


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  #122  
Old July 30th, 2011, 8:39 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by canismajoris View Post
But you're using as examples scientific advancements, and I'm addressing magical restrictions.
Right, well obviously this can be flipped around to look at it from the other direction. Perhaps I should use as an example that in 1970 we didn't have the ability to walk down the street talking to a friend across town, but we were able to send humans onto the moon. We were restricted on the former, but clearly had very advanced technology at the time as shown by the latter. Would a third party not potentially find this absurd?


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  #123  
Old July 30th, 2011, 12:34 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I am reading GOF and noticed something. When Dumbledore talks about the triwizard tournament he says it was always held between the three schools, Hogwarts, Durmstrang and Beaubatons but later on when Harry is chosen as a champion Karkaroff gets angry and says that when it comes to the next tournament Durmstrang will most likely not be competing. I am not sure if he was saying they would refuse to compete or if they just would not be one of the three schools, suggesting different schools compete each time! Just a small thing but it confused me! Is the Triwizard tournament always held between those schools or are there other schools that can compete? Dumbledore did say that those three were the biggest wizarding schools in Europe so there are probably other smaller ones.


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  #124  
Old July 30th, 2011, 5:52 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by Emmab View Post
I am reading GOF and noticed something. When Dumbledore talks about the triwizard tournament he says it was always held between the three schools, Hogwarts, Durmstrang and Beaubatons but later on when Harry is chosen as a champion Karkaroff gets angry and says that when it comes to the next tournament Durmstrang will most likely not be competing. I am not sure if he was saying they would refuse to compete or if they just would not be one of the three schools, suggesting different schools compete each time! Just a small thing but it confused me! Is the Triwizard tournament always held between those schools or are there other schools that can compete? Dumbledore did say that those three were the biggest wizarding schools in Europe so there are probably other smaller ones.
I'm sure it was just an angry bluff from Karkaroff, because he saw it as an unfair advantage for Hogwarts to win as they had 2 champions. But given the eventual revelation of the circumstances (fake Moody's actions), it wouldn't have been an issue in the next tournament. The Ministry knew about Crouch Jr.'s involvement. But given that the 3 schools are the largest in the area, if one didn't agree to participate, then it's likely there wouldn't be another tournament.


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  #125  
Old July 30th, 2011, 9:37 pm
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Possible Plot Hole

This may've been thoroughly discussed by now, and if it has been I'd greatly appreciate being referred to the appropriate thread, but I came across what I believe to be a very serious plot hole the other day.

There are two givens. Harry is horcrux. Basilisk fangs can be used to destroy horcruxes.

However, in Chamber of Secretes Harry is bit by a Basilisk. He is able to survive the venom that would kill any person (Horcrux or not) because of the pheonix, but it seems to me that Harry, or at least the Horcrux inside Harry, should've died instantly because of this.

What do all you HP experts think?

I think, if nothing else, this questions how pre-determined the plot of the series as a whole actually was as compared to Rowling's claims.


  #126  
Old July 30th, 2011, 10:18 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by cobrien View Post
However, in Chamber of Secretes Harry is bit by a Basilisk. He is able to survive the venom that would kill any person (Horcrux or not) because of the pheonix, but it seems to me that Harry, or at least the Horcrux inside Harry, should've died instantly because of this.
I would say that Harry was ultimately not destroyed by the Basilisk fangs because he wasn't killed, thus the horcrux was not destroyed because the vessel in which it was contained (Harry) was not destroyed. What ultimately destroyed the piece of soul in Harry was when Voldemort killed him (yes, he came back to life, but not before he went into a between life and death state). That's my take on it anyway.


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  #127  
Old July 30th, 2011, 11:33 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Yes, due to Harry not dying and being healed by Fawkes the piece of soul was allowed to live on in Harry. If I remember correctly Hermione even says that its lucky Phoenix tears are so rare because of their plan to use basilish venom to destroy the others. Maybe if Phoenix tears were administered to the other horcruxes straight after being stabbed it'd repair them? Who knows.


  #128  
Old July 30th, 2011, 11:48 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I think it says that animals are under different rules than stuff when it comes to horcruxes.. A thing is broken when it's broken, but an animal is not broken until it's effectively dead.


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  #129  
Old July 31st, 2011, 5:47 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Also, Jo said somewhere that Harry wasn't a complete "horcrux." Horcrux's had to be intentionally made and with Harry the piece of soul simply latched on to him when it had nowhere else to go. It wasn't completely in control or possessing him like the soul in the other horcruxes, so it couldn't be destroyed the same way.


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  #130  
Old July 31st, 2011, 9:13 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by Unrepentant View Post
I think it says that animals are under different rules than stuff when it comes to horcruxes.. A thing is broken when it's broken, but an animal is not broken until it's effectively dead.
I think it is the same thing regardless. The container needs to be irreparably damaged. With pheonix tears on hand, Harry was prevented from becoming irreparably damaged, which, for living things, means dead.


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  #131  
Old July 31st, 2011, 9:24 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by craiggles View Post
I thought about that, that it might have been attributed to the wizarding world's attitude towards werewolves. Surely one person would have known something about them, though, and noticed that Lockhart was wrong, but oh well, he makes for a good story

Maybe the charm is viewed more like muggle alternative medicine. As in there is no actual proof or reason that it works but there are some supposed instances where it has worked. But in every case the proper control measures weren't set up for it to be a proper test of the charms actual effects. This includes making sure the subject was a full werewolve and not some deranged individual or some one suffering from a curse or jinx.


  #132  
Old July 31st, 2011, 2:48 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Something else sparked my attention today
It's revealed (in some book) that the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives, and that's why Dumbledore placed him there in the first place.

It makes no sense.
Listen; Lily and James got Harry when they were 20; It seems like a sort of standard to get children in the WW as early as in your 20-30s, maybe for economical reasons. (Lucius got Draco at the age of 25, and I think there are more examples, just can't think of any OTTOMH)
Now, Dumbledore, Muriel and Elphias Dodge are all like 114-ish years old. If wizards/witches get children at young age, and wizards/witches live that long, Harry is bound to have (counts) even great-great-great-great-grandparents. Yes, someone stated that Charlus and Dorea Potter were dead. But if their parents were alive, at PS/SS they should be around 70-80 years. Even if we say that Charlus and Dorea and their parents broke the norm and got children late, they still should be no older than 100-110.

The same could go for Lily's parents as well, I really can imagine Dudley going "over to gran's" for some tea, and they being muggles, they still shouldn't be older than 70 by PS/SS.

Please tell me what you think.


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Last edited by Unrepentant; July 31st, 2011 at 2:51 pm.
  #133  
Old July 31st, 2011, 3:12 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I think Jo said something about killing off all Harry's family but Petunia so he'd have no other relatives. I'll see if I can find the quote.


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  #134  
Old July 31st, 2011, 5:45 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
I think Jo said something about killing off all Harry's family but Petunia so he'd have no other relatives. I'll see if I can find the quote.
Yes, at some point Jo did say that. Plus she mentioned that James' parents had him later in life, so they doted on him (making him the spoiled brat we see on the train when he was 11 ).

So this implies that witches and wizards could have kids long after mere Muggles can. It's possible that James' parents didn't have James til they were in their 100s. And if their parents waited until later in life as well....well, it seems easy to figure out that James' relatives could be all dead.

As for Petunia and Lily's parents, I think Jo also just got rid of them for convienence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I think it is the same thing regardless. The container needs to be irreparably damaged. With pheonix tears on hand, Harry was prevented from becoming irreparably damaged, which, for living things, means dead.
This is the way I saw it too. If Harry had died from the basilisk venom, I think the horcrux within Harry would also have died. But since the venom never "destroyed" Harry, it also did not have time to destroy the horcrux within him. The phoenix tears healed both him and the horcrux within Harry.


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  #135  
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:53 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Okay, thanks for the inputs!


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  #136  
Old July 31st, 2011, 11:55 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

In TPT Snape tells Dumbledore that Voldemort believes the prophecy refers to Lily's son. Voldemort prefers to operate alone and not confide in anyone. Snape told Voldemort what he heard of the prophecy, and perhaps they discussed who the prophecy referred to. But I really doubt that Voldemort would have told Snape of his conclusion.

One possibility is that Snape didn't really know it was the Potters, but just guessed that Voldemort would choose the half blood.


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  #137  
Old August 1st, 2011, 12:30 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Voldemort might have asked Snape to find the Potters, since they were at school together.


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  #138  
Old August 1st, 2011, 1:08 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

In POA, Hermione says that her birthday's in September, but in HBP, she's able to take the Apparition test at the same time as Ron who's birthday is in March. Wouldn't she have to take the test the same time as Harry since her birthday doesn't fall on or before the test date? That was something that really confused me.


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  #139  
Old August 1st, 2011, 1:16 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by BubblyShell22 View Post
In POA, Hermione says that her birthday's in September, but in HBP, she's able to take the Apparition test at the same time as Ron who's birthday is in March. Wouldn't she have to take the test the same time as Harry since her birthday doesn't fall on or before the test date? That was something that really confused me.
Her birthday was in September at the start of the school year so she would have been one of the oldest in her year. Harry would have been one of the youngest as there would only have been people with August birthdays younger than him.


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  #140  
Old August 1st, 2011, 2:51 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Her birthday was in September at the start of the school year so she would have been one of the oldest in her year. Harry would have been one of the youngest as there would only have been people with August birthdays younger than him.
Yes, and further clarification: Harry was born in 1980, Hermione in 1979.


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