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Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5



 
 
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  #421  
Old March 21st, 2007, 9:52 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Spritey View Post
Well, I am a Buffy fan. Which reminds me, I really loved that ending... I would like something like that for HP. Though only one of the main characters died, so I guess that depends on your perspective...
It's been a while since I watched it, but yes, season 5,6,7 had powerful endings one never forgets. If that was to be done with the last Harry Potter book/movie, it would be something to remember, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Spritey View Post
I think we'll get Ron's POV if Harry dies. In their first fight as a Trio (the troll), there's a part from Ron's perspective which makes me think it would go that way.
That makes sense, and I agree with it. Ron has been Harrys sidekick for 6 years and will continue to be his friend and support (I hope and think so, at least) through book 7. It would only be fitting if we got the last moments from his view. Would be about time, sometimes one just want to know what in the world's name he's thinking.



Last edited by Lord_Kaine; March 21st, 2007 at 10:41 pm. Reason: Used the wrong word, changed it.
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  #422  
Old March 21st, 2007, 10:34 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by MClissa View Post
Okay, so after finishing HBP my very first thought was: "oh no, Harry is a Horocrux". However, while recently thinking about it I realized Harry CAN'T be because why would Voldemort be so determined to kill him? Why would he voluntarily put part of his precious soul into the boy he planned on killing? It doesn't make sense.
Because killing Harry wont destroy the Horcrux, I don't think. I think Voldemort's soul would be fine in a dead body as it would in a live one.


  #423  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:21 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Venom3384 View Post
Because killing Harry wont destroy the Horcrux, I don't think. I think Voldemort's soul would be fine in a dead body as it would in a live one.
For a while, maybe, but a dead body will degrade over time, making it a less-than-ideal hiding spot. No, I think it's a valid point, Harry can't be a Horcrux if Voldemort is trying to kill him.


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  #424  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:25 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul View Post
For a while, maybe, but a dead body will degrade over time, making it a less-than-ideal hiding spot. No, I think it's a valid point, Harry can't be a Horcrux if Voldemort is trying to kill him.
There's no way, in all the magic Voldemort has, to preserve the body?
And I think Harry being a Horcrux was an accident. I think Voldemort intended to make a Horcrux that night at Godric's Hollow, but when his AK backfired it inadvertently triggered the Horcrux spell.


  #425  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:38 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Venom3384 View Post
Yeah, I agree. To just say "Happily ever after" would kinda demean all the strugge the characters went through throughout the series.
Demean it? In my opinion, it would make it all worthwhile. If Harry dies, he will have lived a miserable life and never gotten a chance to enjoy the fruits of his labor.


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  #426  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:43 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by LikeLuna View Post
Demean it? In my opinion, it would make it all worthwhile. If Harry dies, he will have lived a miserable life and never gotten a chance to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
It will demean it in the sense that for all the talk of Voldemort being the most powerful Dark wizard ever he can't kill a couple of kids? And gets taken down by a single kid? That would make it seem like either they were misinformed about his powers, or that be must not have been so bad when he first came to power.


  #427  
Old March 21st, 2007, 11:49 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Venom3384 View Post
There's no way, in all the magic Voldemort has, to preserve the body?
Ok, eeeeuw!


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  #428  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 12:19 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by nirvanamuse View Post
i want harry to die (as horrid as that sounds) because any other ending would be unfinnished and would leave a hundread thousand questions eg. did he get married, did he become an auror, what are his kids (if he has any) going to be like.
i want him to die because that will make an ending that is worthy of the books, i want harry to go out with a bang though.
then again i do have to aqdmit that all the books have ended on a high note so i doubt it will be any different with this one.
I have to confess that I have no problems at all with Harry having a future after the end of book 7, even if I never find out who he marries/divorces, how many children he has, or how he succeeds with his career plans! The vast majority of children's books end without the main character dying, and this isn't generally considered to be unsatisfactory! I have no problems with him flying off into the sunset with Ginny, or standing in the ruins of Hogwarts wondering how to pick up the pieces, or even waking up in St Mungos with Hermione and Ron at his bedside. The end of the series does not have to mean the end of Harry's life.


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  #429  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 1:29 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by anabel View Post
I have to confess that I have no problems at all with Harry having a future after the end of book 7, even if I never find out who he marries/divorces, how many children he has, or how he succeeds with his career plans! The vast majority of children's books end without the main character dying, and this isn't generally considered to be unsatisfactory!
This series was never written specifically for children...JK said this herself, she was just writing. Her publisher/Agent decided the target audience. The *childish* style of her writing, through dialogue and content, is only due to the fact that she is actually writing about young people :P

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Originally Posted by anabel View Post
I have no problems with him flying off into the sunset with Ginny, or standing in the ruins of Hogwarts wondering how to pick up the pieces, or even waking up in St Mungos with Hermione and Ron at his bedside. The end of the series does not have to mean the end of Harry's life.
The "and he lived happily ever after" theme is too cliche. I would be dissapointed if the series ended like this, and JK's standard of writing would drop many notches in my opinion.

As for Harry actually achieving peace, love, happiness through a live with Ginny and all that...He is only 16 (17 when he finally snuffs it of course) Any semblance of a prospective life after the war, is not on his mind, and never will be...he is only 16/17 He is not thinking about these things at this age.

His driving force is nobility/courage/revenge. Not a desire for a normal life. If Harry's motivation as the hero was desire for normality, why is he planning on pursuing the Horcruxes and Voldemort to begin with? A hero's motivation is what fuels him during his journey in a story, his desire to "see him [Voldemort] finished" and "be the one to do it" (quotes from HBP unsure of page) is what drives him to action. A peaceful life is not relevant to the final plot in anyway, it is just a device created to portray anger and frustration within Harry.


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  #430  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 3:28 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Venom3384 View Post
It will demean it in the sense that for all the talk of Voldemort being the most powerful Dark wizard ever he can't kill a couple of kids? And gets taken down by a single kid? That would make it seem like either they were misinformed about his powers, or that be must not have been so bad when he first came to power.
For all the talk of Voldemort being so powerful, you would think that he wouldn't be stripped of a body by a one year-old baby, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality
His driving force is nobility/courage/revenge. Not a desire for a normal life. If Harry's motivation as the hero was desire for normality, why is he planning on pursuing the Horcruxes and Voldemort to begin with?
Because he knows that he can never have a normal life until Voldemort is gone, because Voldemort will continue trying to kill him.


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  #431  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 5:12 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by cybereality View Post
This series was never written specifically for children...JK said this herself, she was just writing. Her publisher/Agent decided the target audience. The *childish* style of her writing, through dialogue and content, is only due to the fact that she is actually writing about young people :P


The "and he lived happily ever after" theme is too cliche. I would be dissapointed if the series ended like this, and JK's standard of writing would drop many notches in my opinion.

As for Harry actually achieving peace, love, happiness through a live with Ginny and all that...He is only 16 (17 when he finally snuffs it of course) Any semblance of a prospective life after the war, is not on his mind, and never will be...he is only 16/17 He is not thinking about these things at this age.

His driving force is nobility/courage/revenge. Not a desire for a normal life. If Harry's motivation as the hero was desire for normality, why is he planning on pursuing the Horcruxes and Voldemort to begin with? A hero's motivation is what fuels him during his journey in a story, his desire to "see him [Voldemort] finished" and "be the one to do it" (quotes from HBP unsure of page) is what drives him to action. A peaceful life is not relevant to the final plot in anyway, it is just a device created to portray anger and frustration within Harry.
Whether JKR had a target audience in mind or not she originally wrote these for her daughters entertainment..I believe she was a child at the time. I don't find that the writing style has changed over the years only that the characters have grown up and the stories with them. Usually we read one or two levels above our abilities to learn and one or two below our abilities to be entertained. I have never thought of these books as "adult fare" only young peoples literature that I also enjoy. I do not find Harry and his friends as sophisticated as I do many of the young people on this board as far as vocabulary is concerned so I still see these books as written for a younger audience.

I do not feel that anyone living a well earned quiet life is a cliche' either. I really don't believe that JKR standard of writing would suffer due to a happy ending. As far as Harry not even thinking about a future life what would be the point of what he is doing if he did not? I do not think that people who are only bent on revenge are usually noble nor do I believe that your emotional and mental stamina would last very long if those were the only things you had going for you. If you do not have a prize at the end of a long hard journey there is a good chance your journey will not be successful. At least as far as this type of journey goes.




Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeLuna View Post
Because he knows that he can never have a normal life until Voldemort is gone, because Voldemort will continue trying to kill him.
Otherwise why bother with any of this? Why not just let Voldemort have his way and not worry about it anymore. I think that Harry definitely wants a normal wizards life (what ever that is) along with everything else that would bring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel View Post
I have to confess that I have no problems at all with Harry having a future after the end of book 7, even if I never find out who he marries/divorces, how many children he has, or how he succeeds with his career plans! The vast majority of children's books end without the main character dying, and this isn't generally considered to be unsatisfactory! I have no problems with him flying off into the sunset with Ginny, or standing in the ruins of Hogwarts wondering how to pick up the pieces, or even waking up in St Mungos with Hermione and Ron at his bedside. The end of the series does not have to mean the end of Harry's life.


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  #432  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 6:01 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by hagrids_wench View Post
I do not feel that anyone living a well earned quiet life is a cliche' either. I really don't believe that JKR standard of writing would suffer due to a happy ending. As far as Harry not even thinking about a future life what would be the point of what he is doing if he did not? I do not think that people who are only bent on revenge are usually noble nor do I believe that your emotional and mental stamina would last very long if those were the only things you had going for you. If you do not have a prize at the end of a long hard journey there is a good chance your journey will not be successful. At least as far as this type of journey goes.
This would imply that he is only going to be questing and destroying the Horcruxes, and Voldemort, to further his own ends. That of a quiet, peaceful life. This kind of sounds selfish to me, and not like Harry at all. Isn't the end purpose of destroying the evil tyrant (Voldemort) to put an end to the murder and abuse of innocents? Essentially to make the wizarding world a more stable and safe place? This is the nobility I mentioned, one of the factors powering him.

Harry said this himself, in HBP I believe with internal dialogue. I wish I had the exact quote and page number. It was during his chat with Dumbledore, when Albus had asked him what his feelings would be for Voldemort if he never heard the prophecy. He considered all the loss of life, the murder of the innocents and his family/friends and said he would want to see him dead, and be the one to do it. He didn't think, "if Voldemort is dead, I could live in peace" he thought of others.

(BTW if anyone has this quote Im talking about could you please post it? I dont have my copy of the book at work with me)


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  #433  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 7:46 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by LikeLuna View Post
For all the talk of Voldemort being so powerful, you would think that he wouldn't be stripped of a body by a one year-old baby, right?
Come on now, you, I, and Harry knows that it was really nothing to do with him that stopped Voldemort. It was a spell that Lily put on Harry inadvertently. And even stopped in this case is relative because if he was stopped, what's all this nonsense he's up to now?

The thing is, I totally see Harry as being bent on revenge. Whenever he thinks of his parents dying, his "famous" temper flares up and he's even tried to AK someone.

The thing is, I totally see Harry as being bent on revenge. Whenever he thinks of his parents dying, his "famous" temper flares up and he's even tried to AK someone.


  #434  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 12:29 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by cybereality View Post
This would imply that he is only going to be questing and destroying the Horcruxes, and Voldemort, to further his own ends. That of a quiet, peaceful life. This kind of sounds selfish to me, and not like Harry at all. Isn't the end purpose of destroying the evil tyrant (Voldemort) to put an end to the murder and abuse of innocents? Essentially to make the wizarding world a more stable and safe place? This is the nobility I mentioned, one of the factors powering him.

Harry said this himself, in HBP I believe with internal dialogue. I wish I had the exact quote and page number. It was during his chat with Dumbledore, when Albus had asked him what his feelings would be for Voldemort if he never heard the prophecy. He considered all the loss of life, the murder of the innocents and his family/friends and said he would want to see him dead, and be the one to do it. He didn't think, "if Voldemort is dead, I could live in peace" he thought of others.

(BTW if anyone has this quote Im talking about could you please post it? I dont have my copy of the book at work with me)
The passage you are speaking of is in the chapter entitled Horcruxes pages 509-512.
The discussion was in part about the prophecy. Dumbledore said that Harry was putting to much store in the prophecy.

Dumbledore said this-
"If Voldemort had never heard of the prophecy would it have been fulfilled? Would it have meant anything?Of course not! Do you think every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fulfilled?"

"But," said Harry bewildered, "but last year you said one of us would have to kill the other-"

"Harry,Harry, only because Voldemort made a grave error, and acted on Trelawney's words! If Voldemort had never murdered your father, would he have imparted to you a furious desire for revenge? Of course not! If he had not forced your mother to die for you would he have given you a magical protection he could not penetrate?Of course not, Harry! Don't you see? Voldemort himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress?All of them realize that one day amongst their many victims there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back! Voldemort is no different! Always he was on the lookout forthe one who would challenge him.He heard the prophecy and he leapt into action with the result that he not only hand picked the man most likely to finish him,he handed him uniquely deadly weapons."

Dumbledore then discusses how it is Voldemorts fault that Harry can see into his mind without harm whereas Voldemort cannot do this without pain.He also mentions even because of this connection Harry has never shown any propensity to join Voldemorts Death Eaters.

Harry says "Of course I haven't! He killed my mum and dad!"

when Harry continues and says that he has got to try to kill him..."or" Dumbledore says

"Got to?" "Of course you've got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself,will never rest until you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, for just a
moment, that you had never heard of that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!"

Harry thinks of everyone that has been harmed by Voldemort and says that he would want " him finished" and that "I'de want to do it."

So there wasn't any internal dialogue Harry simply answered Dumbledore's question. I do not find anything here that leads me to believe that Harry isn't thinking about the future, his or anyone else, the conversation only comprises the prophecy and how Voldemort's reaction to it had set it in motion to begin with it really wasn't a discussion about Harry's hopes and dreams. It had more to do with the reasons that he was stuck in the mess to begin with.

I never thought that Harry was only doing this for himself, that has been obvious throughout the book, however, that does not mean that Harry doesn't hope for a positive conclusion to the quest for everyone including himself. Harry simply knows that he may not survive the final battle and is willing to "walk ino the arena with head held high" That is the noble and altruistic part to me and I do not find that that would mean that if he is successful and had the opportunity for a normal life he would say ...

"Oh No...I did this out of revenge and a noble attitude and for the love of others. This was never about me so if you don't mind I will go and live in a cave and wear sackcloth and ashes forever. I am ashamed that I didn't die because now it looks like I may have wanted something for myself."


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  #435  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 2:31 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by hagrids_wench View Post

"Oh No...I did this out of revenge and a noble attitude and for the love of others. This was never about me so if you don't mind I will go and live in a cave and wear sackcloth and ashes forever. I am ashamed that I didn't die because now it looks like I may have wanted something for myself."
Again, that's an extreme way of looking at it. Of course he would like to live a normal life if he wins. But that may prove impossible. After all he goes through, if he lives, he might be better off pulling a Frodo.


  #436  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 2:49 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Venom3384 View Post
Again, that's an extreme way of looking at it. Of course he would like to live a normal life if he wins. But that may prove impossible. After all he goes through, if he lives, he might be better off pulling a Frodo.
Well of course it is extreme. So is thinking that the only way Harry can truely be victorious and not look as though he was in it just for himself is to die. But that seems to be the only acceptable option with more than one person on this board.


DIE! HARRY, DIE! NO HAPPINESS FOR YOU,YOU CRUD. DIE!
Maybe if Harry does die all of his fans should run off a cliff like a crowd of Lemmings otherwise JKRs point has not been made or understood.


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  #437  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 3:06 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Even as a huge HP fan I have to say that he will probaly die if he wants the book to end well enough. It would probaly end something like this, in order for Harry to defeat Lord Voldemort he will have to kill himself. Why someone might ask is that Harry is obviously a Horcrux, the night that voldemort tried to kill harry he ended up putting a piece of miself into harry connecting the two. So in order to have voldemort dead harry will have to destroy all the horcrux's and then kill himself and let somebody else finish the job of killing voldemort. There is also another question does harry fear death and if he dies will he come back as a ghost. I know, I know everyone thinks that he doesn't fear much of anything but everybody has some kind of fear. So yeh I regret it saying it but yeh he sorta has to die or else JKR is going to have to continue to write more books until the job is done even though it will suck for the series to end.
Prongs


  #438  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 3:27 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by hagrids_wench View Post
Well of course it is extreme. So is thinking that the only way Harry can truely be victorious and not look as though he was in it just for himself is to die. But that seems to be the only acceptable option with more than one person on this board.
Nah..I was merely trying to explain my perspective on Harry's motivation (hero motivation) as being his nobility etc. Not this desire for peace. Certain opinions have been projecting the image of a deserved peaceful life as evidence for him to survive through the story, which doesn't make sense as it never was a motivating part of his character.

I just seem to think that the only way for the story to come full circle is for him to die. (Sacrifice himself and take out Voldemort at the same time)


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  #439  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 10:27 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

feh...I say he'll live


  #440  
Old March 22nd, 2007, 10:29 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by LikeLuna View Post
Demean it? In my opinion, it would make it all worthwhile. If Harry dies, he will have lived a miserable life and never gotten a chance to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
You think Harry's had a miserable life? Really? I'd agree he had a less than stellar childhood, but he was clearly loved- so much that his mother died for him, he gained entrance into this incredible world, made some truly good friends- one could even say a family, found hope, found love, found out that he's capable of great good, and found a real home. It hasn't all been roses, but I personally wouldn't say miserable.

Miserable would have been if Hagrid had never rescued him from the Dursley's when he was 11. Or if he never met Sirius.

The really exciting thing about this book, to me, is that I have no clue what's going to happen, only that the ending probably won't be a traditional happy ending. I do, however, have every confidence that JKR is going to do right by her creation.

I'd say the most miserable ending of all would be if Harry defeated Voldemort but was stripped of everything he holds dear- his friends, his memories of Hogwarts, and his powers. Now that would be truly awful, imo.


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