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The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2



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  #81  
Old March 31st, 2010, 7:41 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
It seems customary to put all the boys (or girls as the case may be) in one room since during Harry's time there were only five Gryff boys in his year and they shared the same room. (Hermione had four roommates -- there are two unnamed girls.)

I'm assuming that the same was true in his dad's day -- only four Gryff boys in James's year and they're rooming together.
Wait only 4?!?!!?!? Are you sure because i remember when McGonnagal makes Rond dance with her during the GoF i saw so many Gryff boys and none of them seemed recognizable, i thought they might be the unmentioned few that were in Harrys year.


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  #82  
Old March 31st, 2010, 7:46 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Wait only 4?!?!!?!? Are you sure because i remember when McGonnagal makes Rond dance with her during the GoF i saw so many Gryff boys and none of them seemed recognizable, i thought they might be the unmentioned few that were in Harrys year.
Please, you're talking about the movie again!

The movies are NOT canon and should NOT be used as examples when discussing the books.


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  #83  
Old March 31st, 2010, 7:49 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Please, you're talking about the movie again!

The movies are NOT canon and should NOT be used as examples when discussing the books.

That being said, those were all the Gryff boys, not just Harry's year.
Hahha jeez lol im sorry... i think. but if those were only 4 Gryff boys i would imagine Hogwarts to be much smaller then the book described.


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  #84  
Old March 31st, 2010, 7:49 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Wait only 4?!?!!?!? Are you sure because i remember when McGonnagal makes Rond dance with her during the GoF i saw so many Gryff boys and none of them seemed recognizable, i thought they might be the unmentioned few that were in Harrys year.
Well you shouldn't base what the movie says/shows as canon. I know that Harry has few roommates because the time period he was born in was right in the middle of the first war. Not many people were having babies at that time. Jo said that usually there are more than there was during Harry's Hogwarts years. I personally think there may have been more Gryffindors in the Marauders' year that weren't mentioned.


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Old March 31st, 2010, 7:53 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Well you shouldn't base what the movie says/shows as canon. I know that Harry has few roommates because the time period he was born in was right in the middle of the first war. Not many people were having babies at that time. Jo said that usually there are more than there was during Harry's Hogwarts years. I personally think there may have been more Gryffindors in the Marauders' year that weren't mentioned.
I know thts not what i should base it on, but i let the movie and my imagination come into play.... big mistake i have to work on that.

I have a feeling this topic is getting a bit off-topic, and im usually not the one to veer it back in place. But better me then a unspeakable right? Message me if you guys wanna talk about this more in depth.


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Old March 31st, 2010, 7:57 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U View Post
Well you shouldn't base what the movie says/shows as canon. I know that Harry has few roommates because the time period he was born in was right in the middle of the first war. Not many people were having babies at that time. Jo said that usually there are more than there was during Harry's Hogwarts years. I personally think there may have been more Gryffindors in the Marauders' year that weren't mentioned.
Yeah but no other boys in James's year were mentioned; at least we know Hermione had two roommates in addition to Lavender and Parvati even though we don't know their names.

Anyway regardless of how many other boys were in the Marauder era, I believe Remus and Peter were assigned to the same room as James and Sirius. Otherwise I can't think of a reason why they would allow Peter to hang around with them.


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  #87  
Old March 31st, 2010, 8:02 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by Nyjets4004 View Post
Hahha jeez lol im sorry... i think. but if those were only 4 Gryff boys i would imagine Hogwarts to be much smaller then the book described.
I think snapes_witch is saying that there were 5 Gryffindor boys in Harry's year, those being Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean and Seamus and 4 Gryffindor boys in the Marauders' year: James, Sirius, Remus and Peter. Her point was that the only reason Peter was included in the Marauders was because being the only other person in their dormitory, they couldn't really leave him out of their exploits. What if Peter woke up one full moon and noticed all the beds were empty? That might make him a bit nervous, perhaps nervous enough to report it to McGonagall.

That said, I do think Rowling said somewhere that the classes were larger in the past. It is possible that there were many other Gryffindor boys in the Marauders' year.

ETA: Nevermind. There might have been other Gryffindor boys in the Marauders' year, but the Marauders were all assigned the same dormitory. That makes sense.


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  #88  
Old March 31st, 2010, 8:09 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Yeah but no other boys in James's year were mentioned; at least we know Hermione had two roommates in addition to Lavender and Parvati even though we don't know their names.
She did? I don't remember that but I guess that's not too important.

Quote:
Anyway regardless of how many other boys were in the Marauder era, I believe Remus and Peter were assigned to the same room as James and Sirius. Otherwise I can't think of a reason why they would allow Peter to hang around with them.
I'm pretty sure that everyone who is in the same house, year, and gender automatically gets lumped together in the same room. I don't think James, Sirius, and Remus were friends with peter simply because he was a left over in their room. I also don't think they would just go ahead and be friends with peter if he weren't worthy friend quality to them. The other Marauders probably thought he had some likable characteristics but there really isn't enough information to conclude a lot about this situation, imo. Everything I've said is obviously just what I believe.

Quote:
That said, I do think Rowling said somewhere that the classes were larger in the past. It is possible that there were many other Gryffindor boys in the Marauders' year.
As I stated in a post above, Jo said that the reason Harry has so few people in his year is because the time that their mothers got pregnant. The first war was in full swing when Lily became pregnant with Harry. That's why there could have been more Gryffindors in the Marauders' year. I think there were.


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  #89  
Old March 31st, 2010, 4:27 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U View Post
She did? I don't remember that but I guess that's not too important.
Jo talked about that in the Mugglenet/TLC interview I believe. It had apparently come up before because of the boggart scene in POA. The Gryffindors were the only house in the DADA class and - not counting Harry and Hermione because they did not face the boggart - the boggart transformations show four boys and four girls. So adding Harry and Hermione would be five boys and five girls. Jo confirmed that was correct, but the other two girls in Hermione's dorm were never named in the books and she hasn't revealed them yet.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that everyone who is in the same house, year, and gender automatically gets lumped together in the same room. I don't think James, Sirius, and Remus were friends with peter simply because he was a left over in their room. I also don't think they would just go ahead and be friends with peter if he weren't worthy friend quality to them. The other Marauders probably thought he had some likable characteristics but there really isn't enough information to conclude a lot about this situation, imo. Everything I've said is obviously just what I believe.

As I stated in a post above, Jo said that the reason Harry has so few people in his year is because the time that their mothers got pregnant. The first war was in full swing when Lily became pregnant with Harry. That's why there could have been more Gryffindors in the Marauders' year. I think there were.
I agree. The dorms are divided by year in each house and Hogwarts seems to follow traditions like that so it seems likely that would have been the same when the Marauders were students. The students in the Marauder's year would all have been born between September, 1959 and August, 1960. There was no war going on at that time so it makes sense that there would be more children. If you figure in Jo's comments that there are around 1000 students at Hogwarts - which is consistent with the number of carriages used to transport the students from the train to the castle - then there have to be more than 10 students per year in each house. I think 800 to 1000 students would be the average given the size of the castle and the means of transporting the students - 100 carriages holding 6 to 8 students each plus the fleet of boats for the first years.

With that in mind, it would actually work out to be around 25-30 students per year in each house if you divided it evenly. So it's more likely that there were probably somewhere between 10 to 15 boys in Gryffindor for the Marauder's year - maybe even 20. I can't see it always breaking down evenly for the number of girls and the number of boys or even between the houses so I'm allowing some leeway for the ratio there. Keeping it simple like Jo did and dividing it evenly, there would still be about 12 to 15 boys in Gryffindor for the Marauder's year. It might be that larger numbers like that were split into two dorms, but you'd still have 6-8 boys in the room.

However many boys were in the dorm with them, I really can't see the Marauders hanging around with Pettigrew simply because he was in their dorm and Lupin was a werewolf and they were sneaking out on a regular basis. Harry and Ron snuck out quite a bit as well, but they didn't feel the need to let Neville, Dean, or Seamus hang around with them all the time to cover that up. It wouldn't be necessary to do that anyway - if they didn't want Pettigrew to know anything it would have been very simple for them to stop by the kitchens and take some food back up to the dorm so Pettigrew would think that's what they were doing. Lupin was being taken out of the dorm once a month the whole time with the cover story that he was ill - or his mother was ill - so they could also have claimed they were just sneaking out to check on him or take him something from the kitchens.

Most significantly though - the timeline doesn't fit. From what Lupin said in POA, they all became friends in their first year so there are two significant factors that have to be considered. First, none of them knew that Lupin was a werewolf at first - they all become friends before and it was because they were all friends that they figured out that he was a werewolf. Second, they were not sneaking out once a month to keep Lupin company during their first four years at Hogwarts - they didn't start doing that until their fifth year after they had mastered the animagus transformation. So neither of those things were a factor in them hanging around with Pettigrew.

I think the Marauders did genuinely care about Pettigrew and the four of them were like brothers - at least as far as James, Sirius, and Lupin were concerned. They teased Pettigrew sometimes, but they also teased each other so that was part of their relationship. Harry, Ron, and Hermione teased each other quite a bit as well but there's no doubt that they cared about each other and Harry considered them his surrogate siblings. Even when they were furious with Pettigrew because of his betrayal, both Sirius and Lupin said that they would have died for Pettigrew - which shows that they did care about him. They were so furious with him because they had cared about him so much and that made his betrayal even worse, IMO. James trusted Pettigrew with his life as well as the lives of his wife and child - not just because he didn't think Voldemort would consider Pettigrew, but also because he was absolutely 100% certain that Pettigrew would not betray him because he believed Pettigrew cared for him the same way that he cared about Pettigrew. Even Lily showed that she cared about him in her letter to Sirius because she was worried about him. The idea that Pettigrew would go to Voldemort and tell him anything was something none of them could even conceive. Pettigrew fooled them all and what he did was reprehensible - more so because they did care about him so much.


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  #90  
Old March 31st, 2010, 5:08 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

I love your post meesha!
I like that you pointed out that they were friends before they found out Lupin was a werewolf. So you're right, Peter wouldn't be wondering where they go at night. I agree with you when you say that the Marauders actually care about Peter. It could have just been the three of them, but they took Wormtail as well even though there were some other boys to choose from. They did form a close enough bond with Wormtail to be prepared to die for him.


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Old April 3rd, 2010, 4:44 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Considering what we see of Peter in the memory that includes their OWLs - I tend to think that Peter's role had pretty much always been 'adoring fan'. I wonder whether he just followed them around until he was part of the group?

Also - Peter MIGHT have wondered where they were going at night even IF it had been only on late night trips to the kitchen.

But he could not have wondered in relation to the others releasing WerewolfRemus because they could NOT release him without Wormtail to crawl under the Willow and press the knot. Both Padfoot and Prongs were too big and neither could do it as a human without being in danger from Remus once he was through.

Besides - it isn't as if Peter was a betrayer from the moment they meet him. As Sirius said - he wanted to be aligned with the biggest bully on the playground. He was after protection. And as long as he believed the Marauders WERE the biggest then he had no reason to go against them.


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  #92  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 5:04 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Which may also be his reason/motivation for joining Voldemort IMO. He joined Voldemort when he started feeling sure Voldemort was the biggest bully on the block; when Order members and Professors started being scared to utter his name and began calling him You-Know-Who. That may have been when Peter became acceptable to the idea of joining with the DEs and to spy on the Order IMO. That way he would be protected from Voldemort.


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Old April 3rd, 2010, 9:20 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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As Sirius said - he wanted to be aligned with the biggest bully on the playground.
Was that the exact wording Sirius used?! If so I think its quite telling


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Old April 3rd, 2010, 11:32 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

i love the marauders! i wish rowling would make a series dedicated just to them. then i would sleep with that book under my pillow...


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Old April 4th, 2010, 12:50 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

I think it's very possible that James, Sirius, and Remus were quite willing to be Peter's friend. He obviously had a lot of respect for them and they probably thought he'd be a loyal or valuable friend. He also showed a similar sense of humour as the other three and he shared the interest in "being cool".
Peter probably wasn't quite the cowardly traitor in his first year.


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Old April 4th, 2010, 6:49 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by kittling View Post
Was that the exact wording Sirius used?! If so I think its quite telling
No, that was not what Sirius said.

POA"You always liked big friends who’d look after you, didn’t you? It used to be us . . . me and Remus . . . and James. . . .”


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U View Post
I love your post meesha!
I like that you pointed out that they were friends before they found out Lupin was a werewolf. So you're right, Peter wouldn't be wondering where they go at night. I agree with you when you say that the Marauders actually care about Peter. It could have just been the three of them, but they took Wormtail as well even though there were some other boys to choose from. They did form a close enough bond with Wormtail to be prepared to die for him.
Thanks.

I think a lot of people tend to get caught up in what we see of the Marauders at the end of their fifth year at Hogwarts and forget that these boys had been friends for five years at that point. The friendship never centered on the fact that Lupin was a werewolf or how James, Sirius, and Pettigrew became animagi because they didn't apply when the four of them met and became friends. They didn't know that Lupin was a werewolf at first and they didn't succeed in becoming animagi until their fifth year.

It was never necessary for them to allow Pettigrew to hang around because of the situation with Lupin. The possibility of him wondering where they went at night wasn't even an issue until their fifth year - at which point they had already been friends with him for four years. And they didn't need him to get into the Whomping Willow. If Pettigrew hadn't been there, they could have simply used Wingardium Leviosa to levitate a stick over to the tree and press the knot that way - like Ron did in DH. That's a spell they would have learned in first year - as we see with Harry in PS/SS. So the claim that the Marauders would only have been friends with Pettigrew because he just happened to be in their dorm room doesn't hold up, IMO.

After they finished Hogwarts, Pettigrew remained a part of their lives and they still cared about him. Lily was worried about him in her letter to Sirius. Sirius was protective of him - checking on him to make sure he was safe the night the Potters were killed. James and Lily had their arms around him in that picture of the Order Moody showed Harry. I think it is clear that they cared about him and trusted him with their lives because they believed he cared about them in return.


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Old April 4th, 2010, 7:31 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittling
Was that the exact wording Sirius used?! If so I think its quite telling
No, that was not what Sirius said.

POA"You always liked big friends who’d look after you, didn’t you? It used to be us . . . me and Remus . . . and James. . . .”
I believe the quote Hwyla was referring to was this one, also said by Sirius:

Quote:
Why should I?" (asked Peter)

"I'll tell you why," said Black. "Because you never did anything for anyone unless you could see what was in it for you. Voldemort's been in hiding for fifteen years, they say he's half dead. You weren't about to commit murder right under Albus Dumbledore's nose, for a wreck of a wizard who'd lost all of his power, were you? You'd want to be quite sure he was the biggest bully in the playground before you went back to him, wouldn't you?"
The reason that applies to the Marauders as well as Voldemort is the first sentence in which Sirius says "you never did anything for anyone" - referring back to the time when they were in school. First the Marauders were his "big friends," then he obvioulsy chose Voldemort over them. That's my understanding of it.

Sirius didn't look at it that way when they were kids. He only figured it out in hindsight. JMO


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Old April 4th, 2010, 7:58 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
I believe the quote Hwyla was referring to was this one, also said by Sirius:



The reason that applies to the Marauders as well as Voldemort is the first sentence in which Sirius says "you never did anything for anyone" - referring back to the time when they were in school. First the Marauders were his "big friends," then he obvioulsy chose Voldemort over them. That's my understanding of it.

Sirius didn't look at it that way when they were kids. He only figured it out in hindsight. JMO
Ah - I thought Hwyla was referring to what Sirius said about the Marauders rather than Voldemort. Thanks for clearing that up.

That does make a very big distinction between the Marauders and Voldemort - at least in Sirius' mind. They were the "big friends" who cared about Pettigrew and looked after him where Voldemort was the "biggest bully in the playground" that Pettigrew decided his "big friends" couldn't protect him from.

I agree that Sirius did not realize that when they were younger - though I wouldn't limit that to when they were children because they were 21-22 when Pettigrew revealed his true colors with his betrayal. But I'm sure that was very painful for Sirius - the realization that this person they had cared so much about and would have died to protect had betrayed all of them to Voldemort just to save his own life must have been a huge shock.


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  #99  
Old April 4th, 2010, 10:21 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

I frankly don't believe the other Marauders cared that much about Peter. He was a tag-along in my opinion, and not quite treated as an equal. McGonagall certainly saw them that way.

Just because Lily was concerned about Peter doesn't mean that Sirius and James shared her concern. They expected Peter to get with the plan and put his life on the line as SK. His life would have been the sacrifice if the SK plan had worked out correctly, but they never expected it to happen because they felt he was so lowly that Voldemort wouldn't dream they would put their trust in him. That's not exactly a real vote of confidence.

And clearly, Peter wasn't so attached that he wanted to give his life for the Potters. That begs the question of just how friendly they actually were to Peter over their entire history together.

If we look at the other character who betrayed Sirius - Kreacher - it all happened because of the way the House Elf had been treated. Yet when Harry offered Kreacher real friendship, just as Regulus did, he became very loyal.

I like the theme of loyalty and what makes people either act faithfully or act with indifference. Peter became indifferent to what happened to the Potters. In the end, and throughout the rest of the books, he was only worried about himself.

Quote:
That does make a very big distinction between the Marauders and Voldemort - at least in Sirius' mind. They were the "big friends" who cared about Pettigrew and looked after him where Voldemort was the "biggest bully in the playground" that Pettigrew decided his "big friends" couldn't protect him from.
Yes, that's right - and his new replacement "big friend" could possibly protect him. Sirius is making a parallel comparison, not a distinction, in my opinion. By using the word "playground" he seems to be referring back to their shared childhood together. Maybe that's just due to Sirius's arrested development, but there is no "playground" connected to Voldemort, so the whole kiddie theme seems to refer back to their time as Marauders instead. JMO


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  #100  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:06 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIP
His life would have been the sacrifice if the SK plan had worked out correctly, but they never expected it to happen because they felt he was so lowly that Voldemort wouldn't dream they would put their trust in him. That's not exactly a real vote of confidence.
Actually, Peter was believed to be safe because no one knew he was the SK. No one was supposed to know, and Sirius is shielding him with his own life by pretending to be the SK. Peter was never at risk.

Moreover, I don't think it means anything that they thought no one would suspect him. It was simply the truth. That doesn't imply that they didn't care. The trio don't think much of Neville till OoTP. That doesn't mean that they didn't care about him. I just don't see how you have to consider someone an equal to care about them and be prepared to die for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIP
And clearly, Peter wasn't so attached that he wanted to give his life for the Potters. That begs the question of just how friendly they actually were to Peter over their entire history together.
I don't think so. I think it's made pretty clear that they cared about him. Lily worries about him, and Sirius says that he would have given his life for him. Loyalty is a choice, and Peter chose not to be. There's really nothing that suggests that the rest of them didn't deserve Peter's loyalty, and plenty to suggest otherwise.

There's also Lily mentioning that 'Wormy seemed down'. It seems that Peter wasn't that eager about his impending betrayal. I don't think that it was an easy choice for him at all. Which wouldn't be the case if the Marauders and Lily had treated him badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIP
If we look at the other character who betrayed Sirius - Kreacher - it all happened because of the way the House Elf had been treated. Yet when Harry offered Kreacher real friendship, just as Regulus did, he became very loyal.
I don't think the two cases are comparable. No one is shown mistreating Peter like Sirius did Kreacher. Questioning his competence isn't nearly the same as kicking him through the doorway.


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character analysis, james potter, peter pettigrew, remus lupin, sirius black, the marauders


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