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Zacharias Smith: Descendent of Helga Hufflepuff?



 
 
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  #41  
Old July 19th, 2005, 2:07 am
CatellaAurum  Female.gif CatellaAurum is offline
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Yeah I very much think that Zacharias is the descendent of Hufflepuff.


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  #42  
Old July 19th, 2005, 2:14 am
DogStarBlack  Female.gif DogStarBlack is offline
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I think it's hard to say, especially since Smith is such a common name. However, the fact that Zacharias is in Hufflepuff makes me think he is descended from Helga herself...I wonder if Zacharias knows it.
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  #43  
Old July 19th, 2005, 2:18 am
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I have my doubts. Helga Hufflepuff seems like she was very kind, humble and sweet from what little we know of her from the books. The ultimate Hufflepuff. Zachariah is such an arrogant prat, that I wonder why he didn't wind up in Slytherin.


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  #44  
Old July 19th, 2005, 2:27 am
gildedmuse  Female.gif gildedmuse is offline
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Ha! I had the same exact thought upon hearing her last name. Zacharias had appeared way more in this book then any of the other minor characters (he even beat out Neville, I think) and then they introduce the heir of Hufflepuff who happen to have the same last name? Please.

Smith might be a common last name, but how common do you think it is in the wizard world? Remember, the population of UK magic folk isn't too large.

So we know one of them for sure (Tom Riddle) there are theories for two (Smith & Potter). Two of those individuals were part of the DA. You don't think she'd include the Ravenclaw heir in the DA as well, do you?


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  #45  
Old July 19th, 2005, 6:52 am
Lady_MacBeth  Female.gif Lady_MacBeth is offline
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The decendents seem to have changed a lot. Inbreeding perhaps.

Slytherin, whatever bad things you can say about him, was very smart and probably noble. Unlike the Gaunts.

Helga seemed very fair and not to hold herself above others, unlike the Smiths (whos names I will not attempt to spell)


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  #46  
Old July 19th, 2005, 9:21 pm
mugglemom1970  Female.gif mugglemom1970 is offline
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Perhaps he has been told to keep quiet for his own safety? In the thought that if Voldemort ever returned that the descendants could become targets.

gildedmuse-
Quote:
So we know one of them for sure (Tom Riddle) there are theories for two (Smith & Potter). Two of those individuals were part of the DA. You don't think she'd include the Ravenclaw heir in the DA as well, do you?
Perhaps as Ravenclaws are known for their smarts this person is better at keeping it quiet?


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  #47  
Old July 19th, 2005, 9:27 pm
Mae  Female.gif Mae is offline
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good lord, how could i have missed that??? no wonder hes so arrogant...hes a decendant and he probably knows it!


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  #48  
Old July 19th, 2005, 9:56 pm
RobertVanGrah  Undisclosed.gif RobertVanGrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCwitch920
So we know she shares the same surname as Zacharias Smith. Zacharias is also in Hufflepuff House. Does that mean he's related to Hepzibah?
Cripes! that was a clever catch! Good work!


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  #49  
Old July 19th, 2005, 10:00 pm
Maurven  Male.gif Maurven is offline
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I too am nearly positive that he must be a descendent. I think that his personality belongs in Slytherin rather than Hufflepuff is further proof of his ancestry. There must be SOMETHING that puts him in Hufflepuff. What better than blood? Additionally, I think that the gang will be forced to follow the sorting hat's advice, unite with the other houses, and enlist Smith's aid to find the Hufflepuff Horcrux.


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  #50  
Old July 19th, 2005, 10:26 pm
Demented Demented is offline
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Maybe Zacharias is Hufflepuff's heir ... maybe not. Believe it or not people do share the same last names sometimes. Hogwarts alone has 1000 students (according to JKR) ... would it be to hard to believe that 2 students had the same last name? No. So why is it so hard to believe that he has the same last name as someone who lived about 50 years ago and isn't related.

I'm not sure if I believe he is or isn't the heir, but it's not ridiculous to assume that he's not.

But, more importantly, why does it matter? Voldemort stole the cup from Hepzibah. How would Zacharias have even the slightest idea where it is.


  #51  
Old July 20th, 2005, 10:17 am
Weasel_king7  Female.gif Weasel_king7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchsia
I hope it's true and not another Mark Evans fiasco.

How many times can old Zacharias be a red herring after all? Snape and Draco finally stopped being one.
lol I agree. But what if Jo purposefully put in Mark Evans knowing we would question her about it? Then sneakily she puts in this whole Smith scenario and makes us think itís a similar thing, because we are all second guessing our actions. I didnít really pick up on the whole smith surname thing though, but i think itís a good possibility. It would be so funny if he took a more important role since we have all grown to hate him, is Smith in Hufflepuff?? i think he is from memory.


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  #52  
Old July 21st, 2005, 10:58 am
Emma88  Female.gif Emma88 is offline
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Hepzibah also mentions that her family would love to get there hands on the cup. It sounds as though she has a large family, which would make it very plausible that she is Zacharias' Great Aunt of similar, and so making him a descendant of Hufflepuff. Also, just to point out that the sorting hat has never been wrong. Perhaps that was the main reason for Zacharias being placed in Hufflepuff?


  #53  
Old July 21st, 2005, 11:06 am
Tonksaholic  Male.gif Tonksaholic is offline
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I noticed this as soon as it was mentioned, and my thoughts instanly turned to a theory i read on here about the heirs of all the founders running around Hogwarts, it made me laugh.


  #54  
Old July 21st, 2005, 6:26 pm
bluebelle  Undisclosed.gif bluebelle is offline
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Hepzibah Smith and other descendants

Hello - I did do a search and didn't see anything quite the same. But this is my first post so who knows ...

There is a lot of speculation about descendants of the original founders (i.e. Harry is he or isn't he the heir of Gryffindor?) and there has been question marks over how important this was in the books as JK Rowling emphasises over and over again the importance of the individual's own choices.

However, I think that the founders, their history and lineage, will be important because it obviously holds importance for a very central character in the books - Lord Voldemort.

Dumbledore suspected the LV would want to use personal items of the Hogwart founders as Horcruxes because he seems to place a special importance and value on these things. However, he also mentioned (excuse me if i'm wrong as i'm typing from memory without a book at hand) that Voldemort probably created Horcruxes after particularly important murders.

Maybe, Voldemort would place particular importance on murdering the descendants of the founders. Perhaps he would think that the murder of such people would make the magic even more symbolic / powerful.

There may be other reasons to promote such murders as well. Being the proud descendant of Slytherin, perhaps he feels a natural hostility to the descendants of the other founders who opposed Slytherin and (probably in his eyes) forced Slytherin to leave Hogwarts, the place which both he and LV himself appear to love (maybe the wrong word here!)

Perhaps Voldemort would feel a natural threat from such descendants as well. If he places a lot of importance on being descended from Slytherin, it is quite possible that he (as opposed to Dumbledore and his choice theory stuff) might think that magical ability is most strongly determined by the quality of your genes (i.e ancestors).

Maybe he would think that his stature as a wizard would be heightened by being the only living descendant of any of the founders (perhaps this could also be a complex to compensate for him actually being a half-blood).

For any combination of these reasons, although most importantly to create a powerful, meaningful Horcrux, I believe that LV might have deliberately targeted other descendants of the founders.

This brings us to Hepzibah Smith. Is it just a coincidence that we see Tom Riddle using the same flattering techniques towards her that we seem him using with Professor Slughorn. Is he probing again for information (i.e. looking for a powerful magical object to accompany a powerful magical murder). It is quite possible that he is just doing his job well, a good employee.

Even if this is the case, why would talented Lord Voldemort choose to work at Borgin and Burkes ? It seems to me that he was already intent on immortality and the creation of Horcruxes. Having just left Hogwarts, the place to (so far in his life) shape all/most his magical experiences, he was probably also at this point intent on using items from the founders as these were probably the people he revered the most at this stage in his life. It seems likely that he choose to work at B&B to begin looking into antique possessions, history and ancestory.

How does this leave book 7? I think Harry will have to look down some of these same paths that Voldemort traced to have some idea of what Horcruxes to look for and who might have owned / had access to them at the time Voldemort was around. We also might see other descendants springing up who a particularly at risk to be killed.

So which characters could be descendants?
We already know that LV is the last living descendant of Slytherin. We have already seen how he treated his own Uncle, also a Slytherin descendant. By framing him for murder and having him in Azkaban under the dementors is either ruthless cunning to avoid being linked to a murder he would be associated with, or also perhaps a fear of the potential power of other descendants (the uncle being a clear descendant as his Parseltongue showed). Although it is also worth pointing out that he probably was pretty annoyed/had no positive emotional attachment to a man who showed no interest in him and left him to a muggle orphanage.

The name most closely aligned to Hepzibah Smith - descendant of Hufflepuff, is Zacharias Smith. He of course is in Hufflepuff. Interestingly just like with LV he doesn't seem to fit into his house. LV of course isn't a pure blood, Slytherin's prized trait. Zacharias in his turn doesn't seem in the likeness of Helga who is described as such: "she brought people from different walks of life together to help build Hogwarts and was loved for her charming ways" (found on Lexicon). Zacharias hardly seems capable of bringing disparate people together (the DADA, the Hogs Head, etc.) and charming ... not in my eyes. At first glance this seems to be against JKR's choice policy - i.e. that descendants are automatically going into the house of their ancestors (as if genes are the deciding reason). But it could be easily argued that if these people place importance on their ancestory then they choose to follow that line even if deep down they're not going with their true nature. i.e. choosing to be what you are not.

Gryffindor's heir - Harry?. Maybe this would add reason for LV targeting Harry (as opposed to Neville) if Harry was Gryffindor's heir. It would also maybe make the prophecy more interesting to Voldemort (i.e. he might assume it to be some deadly showdown to end the Slytherin and Gryffindor feud) but this is just an interesting thought! I don't know how long it would take to create a Horcrux but it is also worth pointing out that at Godrics Hollow LV obviously had killed James & Lily. If Harry is heir/descendant to Gryffindor, then one of these must also have been a descendant. Could a Horcrux have been created (or two even) from these deaths. i.e. what might Harry potentially uncover from his trip to Godric's Hollow? Are other people targeting Godric's Hollow too (Death EAters? LV himself?)

However, the real interest for me is Ravenclaw. For a start we know that LV was probably targeting an item from Ravenclaw - and Dumbledore doesn't know as much about her possessions as Gryffindor's. He is basically uncertain, which is worrying. Secondly, I believe in one of these post-interviews, JKR said that Ravenclaws would come into their own in book 7. Which leads to the last point: about time too!! In my opinion, Ravenclaw is the least written about in the books. ALthough not out of keeping with the other founders, we know almost nothing about Ravenclaw (and at this stage probably less than all the others). What do we know about the Grey Lady ghost. We've never been properly introduced, overheard conversation. Where are the amazing, stand-out students? Ravenclaws are the most intelligent, and while Hermione might have a lot to do with this, there are no stand out characters. Gryffindor seem to spend the least class time with Ravenclaws (do they have any?) obviously we see Slytherins and Gryffindors team up in potions and Care for Magical Creatures. Hufflepuffs and Gryffindors teamed up in Herbology. Even now there are completely mixed classes in NEWTS we still don't see much of Ravenclaws. Obviously there is Cho Chang (who I doubt is in the books for her intelligence or strength of personality!) Maria Edgecombe, Penelope Clearwater, Padma Patil, Terry Boot, Michael Corner, Antony Goldstein, Roger Davies. BUt none of these seem stand-out characters, more like fillers.

Luna Lovegood is really the only Ravenclaw who we have any attachment to. I don't know if she's typically Ravenclaw because common-sense and pratical cleverness are sometimes quite different to academic intelligence. But I doubt it's her.

Perhaps the best way to look out for potential descendants and potential links to Horcruxes is to go back to the idea that LV might particularly target these descendants - i.e. we may have already seen their family member being taken out.

This might strengthen the idea of the Weasley's being descended from Gryffindor. Give extra reason for the all being on mortal peril on Mrs Weasley's clock. Maybe why Mrs Weasley's brothers were taken out (although I personally doubt it). We also have Amelia Bones and Susan Bones.

However, it's hard to know how many of these deaths are only direct consequences of the victims being Order Members. We seeing events through Harry's eyes aren't sure of the entire Order membership. Snape on the other hand might know of more people being in the Order. Alternatively there may be miscellaneous reasons for killings so far. But it is worth going back perhaps to find potential clues.

I don't know if i've said anything particularly new, but any thoughts would be great. Cheers, louise


  #55  
Old July 21st, 2005, 6:38 pm
cakesoccer  Female.gif cakesoccer is offline
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This is a really interesting theory. It makes sense and goes with the pattern that Voldemort created horcruxes after particularly important deaths. I'm not sure if it's true, but it would make sense that Harry, if he is the heir of Gryffindor, would be an important death. Having already killed the heir of Hufflepuff, working on the maybe heir of Gryffindor, and being the heir of Slytherin himself, it leaves Ravenclaw. It would be interesting to find out who was the heir of Ravenclaw; imagine if it was Luna! Though we know Jo puts much emphasis on choice, she also recognizes that to some people, their ancestry is very important and choose to follow that path (like Voldie). Anyways, good job!


  #56  
Old July 21st, 2005, 6:43 pm
zoozoo  Female.gif zoozoo is offline
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ask a question ; this whole harry being the heir of gryffindor thing, is it just a hunch or have i missed something in the text? i've heard this a few times, and i don't get where its coming from.

as for ravenclaw, i think they did get their glory, well a bt of it anyway. Luna was there in the MoM and then in the final battle of HBP. she's the only one there that's not a gryffindor. she helps fight the DEs on both occasions.


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  #57  
Old July 21st, 2005, 6:48 pm
darkflame626  Female.gif darkflame626 is offline
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A wonderful theory. And Luna being the descendant would also be interesting seeing as how so many people just wrote her off as being crazy. I hope she is. I wonder what the Ravenclaw, heirloom would be. I hope Voldemort, hasn't gotten to it yet, or figured it out.


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  #58  
Old July 21st, 2005, 6:58 pm
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If Luna is the descendent of Ravenclaw, her mother's death has got to be suspicious. Was it really a cauldron accident caused by experimentation?


  #59  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 12:28 am
Ixidor  Undisclosed.gif Ixidor is offline
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Seeing as my thread got closed I guess I'll post my theory here.

I just wanted to hear everyone's theory about whats going to happen in the next book, as far as Voldemort, Harry, and just about anything else that deals with the general plotline goes.

My theory seems even a little far-fetched even to me. =P Here goes:

Suppose Hepizbah Smith (From one of the memories DD showed Harry) is related to Zacharias Smith. Hepizbah says that she is distantly related to Helga Hufflepuff and that Hufflepuff's goblet has been handed down through her family and finally to her. Now, if Zachirias were related to Hepizbah, and assuming Hepizbah was telling the truth, it stands that Zacharias Smith is related to Helga Hufflepuff also. I think Harry finds out in Godric's Hollow that he is related to Gryffindor, (or else he probably wouldn't have been able to pull Godric's sword out of the sorting hat), The sorting hat has also been saying that in order to triumph over LV, the school has to band together. Now, say that the descendants of Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, and Gryffindor have to play some role in destroying voldemort by banding together ........


  #60  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 12:34 am
iheartduckies  Female.gif iheartduckies is offline
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wow good catch...that would be interesting but i wonder if we would ever really find out or if JKR would just mention it on her website or something (kinda like the way she told us about Dean Thomas' dad and that he is really a half blood)...otherwise i wonder if it would be of any importance to the plot? probably not but it could be who knows?


 
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