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Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?



 
 
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  #61  
Old May 15th, 2006, 6:23 am
Castlefast  Male.gif Castlefast is offline
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcrux's?

I also have thought that perhaps more than just the locket will have been found and perhaps destroyed by R.A.B. or someone else. My reason for this speculation is just that it is difficult to imagine how all the plot lines and open questions can be resolved in just one book. In six out of seven books Harry isn't even half way to his goal of destroying Lord Voldemort. Having some of the horcruxes already out of the way would really move the narrative along.

Several of the posters in this thread have made comments such as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethP
I think it's a huge assumption to say that the Death Eaters would know where the horcruxes were. As far as we know, they didn't even know of the existence of the horcruxes. Dumbledore didn't seem to think that they knew about it. And think about Voldy. He doesn't trust just anybody, though he might take them on as servents. It's very out of character to think that he would make his horcruxes common knowledge among the Death Eaters.
I don't think this is true. In the GOF's "The Death Eaters" chapter, Lord Voldemort addresses his followers: "And then I ask myself, but how could they have believed I would not rise again? They, who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death?" He wasn't addressing and exclusive inner circle here; afterall, the elder Crabbe and Goyle were in the group! I also think that this would explain some of the Death Eaters' allegiance to Voldemort, because they hope to learn the spell for Horcrux creation themselves.

A couple of pages later, while discussing the events a Godric's Hollow, he openly states, "I, who have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality . . . it appeared that one or more of my experiments had worked . . . ." So, it is possible that R.A.B. knew about multiple horcruxes, and that Harry's task is less arduous than he believes at the end of Book Six.

I do agree that Voldemort would not disclose the identity or location of the horcruxes. Lucius Malfoy did not know that the diary was a horcrux even though it had been entrusted to his possession. Perhaps the location of the horcruxes is the secret that R.A.B. referred to in his note.


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  #62  
Old May 15th, 2006, 1:31 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedwigOwl
HBP, Ch28To the Dark Lord
I know I will be long dead before you read this
but I want you to know it was I who discovered your secret.
I have stolen the real horcrux and intend to destory it as soon as I can.
I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more.


The note itself implies that R.A.B. believed that Voldemort only had one horcrux. "I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more." R.A.B. has the horcrux and intends to destroy it before the DE's find him. He/she thinks that if he can do that, Voldemort will be mortal since the only other piece of soul is in Voldy. So I doubt R.A.B even thought there were multiples.
On the first read, I thought that as well. However, the more I look at it, the more that I see it is possible. He says that he has taken the real Horcrux - well, there was only one hidden in that location. That does not mean he didn't find others and leave notes there as well saying the same thing.

He says that he discovered Voldemort's secret. Well, the secret is that Voldemort created multiple Horcruxes. It could also include the location of those Horcruxes.

GOF gives the suggestion that the Death Eaters had some knowledge of the Horcruxes. I would say that they at least knew that he had created one. It is unlikely that he told them if he created more or how many.

This is also suggested by what happened to Neville's parents. Why did Bellatrix and her cronies go after them when it appeared that Voldemort had died? They did not believe he was dead - suggesting that they knew something.

Another point on this - assuming that R.A.B. is Regulus Black. We know that Regulus is dead and that he was murdered because he tried to "quit". He didn't want to be a Death Eater anymore. We also know that he only survived a few days after "quitting".

However, if R.A.B. is Regulus Black, then we also know something else. We know that he was not murdered because he found the locket Horcrux. How do we know that? Because all the protections were still in place.

R.A.B. - along with whoever helped him - took the locket and then replaced it with a fake - replenishing the potion so it would appear that nothing had been touched. Now, if he believed that were the only Horcrux, why would he go to all that trouble? Why not just take the locket, leave a note, and leave - destroying the locket later. The fact that R.A.B. went to all the trouble to make it appear as though the Horcrux was still there suggests that he knew there was more than one.

So, years later, Dumbledore and Harry arrive at the cave and find all the protections still in place. The opening requires a blood offering - the boat is still there - the inferi are still waiting below the surface of the water - the pedestal is still there and the potion was replenished to hide the fake locket. If Voldemort had discovered that the locket had been taken and possibly destroyed, there would be no need to leave that elaborate set-up there to protect the fake locket. Dumbledore and Harry would not have found anything in that cave - except maybe remnents. The empty pedestal - maybe the boat.

So, if R.A.B. is Regulus Black, then we know that he was not murdered because he found the locket Horcrux. Voldemort is not yet aware that the locket has been removed. So, why was Regulus murdered? Was it for the reason Sirius suspected - that he was murdered just because he decided to quit being a Death Eater? Or was it because it was discovered that he destroyed another Horcrux?

I still think that the trio will discover that both the locket and the cup were found and destroyed by R.A.B. It's not going to make their task that much easier if that is the case. They still have to locate the locket and verify that it was destroyed. They will still have to locate the cup and verify that it was destroyed.

But I think that they will only have to destroy two Horcruxes themselves - the unknown item - which I believe is at Hogwarts - and Nagini. They'll spend the summer verifying the destruction of the locket and the cup. Then they'll discover that the unknown Horcrux is at Hogwarts and return there in September as students and spend their seventh year looking for the unknown item. Sometime around the end of the year, they'll find it and destroy it and then go after Nagini and that will lead to the final battle.


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  #63  
Old May 15th, 2006, 9:30 pm
bass_man789  Male.gif bass_man789 is offline
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

I've thought for a while now that if R.A.B. found and (possibly) destroyed the locket then he probably knew about Hufflepuff's cup too, since they went missing at the same time.

I also don't believe that the note suggests R.A.B. only knows about one Horcrux. Would you think R.A.B. would tell Voldemort how many other Horcruxes and which ones they were in a single note? I mean R.A.B. is trying to defeat Voldemort, I don't think he/she would be nice and give him advice and what not . THe only other Horcrux I think R.A.B. might have stolen was the Cup, whether it was before or after the Locket, I don't know.

One other thing, I know I should post this in "Identifying the Remaining Horcruxes" but, Dumbledore said the only item of Gryffindor's is the sword Harry got from the Sorting Hat. But, wasn't the Sorting Hat Gryffindor's before they made it into the Sorting Hat?


  #64  
Old May 15th, 2006, 9:44 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

How is Harry supposed to learn about the destruction of other horcruxes, if RAB got there first? Harry is going to need confirmation that the items are indeed destroyed, and that they were indeed horcruxes. I think it will make a better story if Harry (and friends) has to find and destroy the remaining four.

In my opinion, RAB only knew about one horcrux. Slughorn was horrified that someone would even want to make one, much less six. Plus, the line about making V mortal suggests that RAB thought destroying the one he found would do the trick, not that s/he would have to destroy half a dozen of them...


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  #65  
Old May 15th, 2006, 9:52 pm
FabiusWatkins FabiusWatkins is offline
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

I highly doubt that any Death Eaters, besides maybe 2 or 3, knew about the Horcruxes. It isn't Voldemort's way. And if they did indeed know where one is, it is extremely unlikely that they knew about more than one.

I believe that RAB only did that one.


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  #66  
Old May 15th, 2006, 9:58 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meesha1971
R.A.B. - along with whoever helped him - took the locket and then replaced it with a fake - replenishing the potion so it would appear that nothing had been touched. Now, if he believed that were the only Horcrux, why would he go to all that trouble? Why not just take the locket, leave a note, and leave - destroying the locket later. The fact that R.A.B. went to all the trouble to make it appear as though the Horcrux was still there suggests that he knew there was more than one.

So, years later, Dumbledore and Harry arrive at the cave and find all the protections still in place. The opening requires a blood offering - the boat is still there - the inferi are still waiting below the surface of the water - the pedestal is still there and the potion was replenished to hide the fake locket. If Voldemort had discovered that the locket had been taken and possibly destroyed, there would be no need to leave that elaborate set-up there to protect the fake locket. Dumbledore and Harry would not have found anything in that cave - except maybe remnents. The empty pedestal - maybe the boat.
I agree with all that you said except for the quote that is above. I do not think that R.A.B. himself filled the basin back up, if he did he would have to know what the potion inside of the basin was, wouldn't he? I do not think that R.A.B. is a potions expert, and I do not think that he would have known what the potion inside of the basin was. So therefore he would not be able to refill it would he? Now I don't think he could just use a refilling charm like Harry used on the mead Slughorn and Hagrid were drinking because to me it seems different. I always just figured that the basin "knew" when it had to refill itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabiusWatkins
I highly doubt that any Death Eaters, besides maybe 2 or 3, knew about the Horcruxes. It isn't Voldemort's way. And if they did indeed know where one is, it is extremely unlikely that they knew about more than one.
I agree, I think that only a select few Death Eaters knew about the Horcruxes, probably Bellatrix, because remember she says that she never deserted Voldemort, even when she thought he was dead, and she was in Azkaban, she still supported him, this to me suggests that she knew he could not die. I also want to say that Snape knew however that seems to complicate the plot, seeing how I believe in Good!Snape, and I can't really picture Voldemort telling a young man his secret, unless Voldemort felt that he could trust Snape because he was the one to tell him of the Prophecy.



Last edited by Lord Godric; May 15th, 2006 at 10:03 pm.
  #67  
Old May 15th, 2006, 10:18 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Godric
... I always just figured that the basin "knew" when it had to refill itself...
That make sense. The trap resetting itself. It would make things easier if LV makes periodic checks on his Horcruxes.


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  #68  
Old May 15th, 2006, 10:45 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole
How is Harry supposed to learn about the destruction of other horcruxes, if RAB got there first? Harry is going to need confirmation that the items are indeed destroyed, and that they were indeed horcruxes. I think it will make a better story if Harry (and friends) has to find and destroy the remaining four.
I agree, if R.A.B. turns out to be some sort of Horcrux Destroying Hero it would take away a lot of the action and investigating in Book Seven (and it would also take away length!). Yeah Harry will have to confirm that all Horcruxes are destroyed (which could add back some of the length) but that still wouldn't be fun. Harry could possibly come across some sort of record R.A.B. kept when he returns to Number 12, Grimmauld Place (if R.A.B. is indeed Regulus A#$&! Black) this would also take away the length of the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole
In my opinion, RAB only knew about one horcrux. Slughorn was horrified that someone would even want to make one, much less six. Plus, the line about making V mortal suggests that RAB thought destroying the one he found would do the trick, not that s/he would have to destroy half a dozen of them...
I find it very hard to believe R.A.B. will only have stumbled across one Horcrux, we don't even know how R.A.B. learned the whereabouts of the locket. I think it is safe to say that R.A.B. could have also learned about the Cup being stolen, since the Locket and Cup vanished at the same time. I don't know if he destroyed it, or if he ever found out where it was, but the chances R.A.B. knew about the Cup seem fairly high in my eyes.


  #69  
Old May 15th, 2006, 11:59 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

I think that since part of Harry's challenge is facing finding and destroying all of the horcruxes, then RAB didn't destroy more for story purposes. maybe one more. but i dont think so. but, it is possible, and i think likely, that if they find him he will have information as to whether voldy found tokens from ravenclaw and gryffindor and what his horcruxes are so they know what to look for. as well as info where to look.


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  #70  
Old May 16th, 2006, 12:20 am
Doomdragonz Doomdragonz is offline
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

well assuming he did destory any at all, my best assumption is a yes, or at least he's trying to destroy any of them he can... maybe thats how harry will destroy the rest, with his help ( yes i know this is divination ) but its on the topic...


  #71  
Old May 16th, 2006, 5:44 am
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Godric
I
I agree, I think that only a select few Death Eaters knew about the Horcruxes, probably Bellatrix, because remember she says that she never deserted Voldemort, even when she thought he was dead, and she was in Azkaban, she still supported him, this to me suggests that she knew he could not die.
Aren't you contradicting yourself here....you say Bella thought he was dead but remained loyal. If she really knew about the horcruxes she would not have thought he was dead.

I doubt that Voldy told the DE's about how he was protecting himself against death, just that he was. Remember that Voldy doesn't really trust anyone, and information about the horcruxes is too powerful to share. Whoever found out about them found out by accident.


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  #72  
Old May 16th, 2006, 5:53 am
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole
How is Harry supposed to learn about the destruction of other horcruxes, if RAB got there first? Harry is going to need confirmation that the items are indeed destroyed, and that they were indeed horcruxes. I think it will make a better story if Harry (and friends) has to find and destroy the remaining four.

In my opinion, RAB only knew about one horcrux. Slughorn was horrified that someone would even want to make one, much less six. Plus, the line about making V mortal suggests that RAB thought destroying the one he found would do the trick, not that s/he would have to destroy half a dozen of them...
I don't think that the Horcruxes are going to be that heavily focused on in book seven. It just doesn't fit. Why would Jo tell us exactly what is going to happen in book 7? Because that is what we have post HBP - a "layout" for book 7. Dursleys - Wedding - Godric's Hollow - Find and destroy Horcruxes - fight Voldemort. Do you really believe that Jo would give that much away? I don't.

Plus we have Jo's comment that Harry thinks he knows what he has to do. That tells us that Harry is wrong. He is going to find out that he has to do something different from what he believes at the end of HBP.

I think the twist is going to come with the Horcruxes. That is where Harry will find out that he is wrong. At the moment, Harry thinks that he has to quit school to find and destroy four Horcruxes. I don't believe Jo is going to give that much away about book 7. So Harry is going to find out that he does not have to find and destroy four Horcruxes - he only has to find and destroy two. The other two he only has to verify that they were destroyed. The other twist will be that he returns to school for his seventh year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Godric
I agree with all that you said except for the quote that is above. I do not think that R.A.B. himself filled the basin back up, if he did he would have to know what the potion inside of the basin was, wouldn't he? I do not think that R.A.B. is a potions expert, and I do not think that he would have known what the potion inside of the basin was. So therefore he would not be able to refill it would he? Now I don't think he could just use a refilling charm like Harry used on the mead Slughorn and Hagrid were drinking because to me it seems different. I always just figured that the basin "knew" when it had to refill itself.
If Voldemort never wanted anyone to find his Horcruxes, why would the basin refill itself? That would imply that Voldemort expected someone to find it.

I don't think R.A.B. refilled the basin - I think whoever helped him did. One of them drank the potion - the other reset everything before they left. The basin was refilled - the spell ensuring that it had to be drunk reset - etc... It is those little details that lead me to believe that R.A.B. may have known there were multiple Horcruxes. If he believed there was only one, why go to all that trouble? Why didn't they just do like Harry and Dumbledore - take it and run?

Instead these two people go in - one drinks the potion and is weakened - the other grabs the Horcrux, fights off the inferi - refills the basin - resets the spell - helps the weakened one back into the boat and back across the lake. They leave everything just as they found it. Why would they do that if they believed there was only one Horcrux?


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  #73  
Old May 17th, 2006, 7:02 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabiusWatkins
I highly doubt that any Death Eaters, besides maybe 2 or 3, knew about the Horcruxes. It isn't Voldemort's way.
Given your belief, how do you interpret the comments that Voldemort made to all the assembled Death Eaters at the graveyard? I can't make sense out of what he was saying if he wasn't talking about horcruxes.

Maybe, if R.A.B. is Regulus A. Black, Lupin is wrong about him being dead, and he is actually Stubby Boardman. (The family resemblence could explain why the Quibbler thought he was Sirius.) lol


  #74  
Old May 17th, 2006, 9:26 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Upon reading the note, I was under the assumption that R.A.B thought Voldemort had only one Horcrux.

Pg. 609 US

" I know I will be gone long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcrux, and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more."

The last sentence seems to indicate that RAB though Voldemort would be mortal upon destroying the Horcrux.


  #75  
Old May 17th, 2006, 10:08 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcrux's?

He specificaly says "I have stolen the real horcrux " so he really thinks is one. It could save Harry a lot of touble and time if he had destroyed more, but I personally believe thats the work the Order has to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmike

Dumbledore could of been the one to discover and get to it first.... and he could of put the liquid there to make himself ill...
Well, my theory is that R.A.B. put the liquid there to destroy V befor he has time to make a new Horcrux.


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  #76  
Old May 20th, 2006, 5:01 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcrux's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaspberryJam
Your forgetting that Dumbledore destroyed one, that's eight Horcrux's, as far as we know, there are seven. It doesn't add up.
i disagree . there are six horcruxes . as dumbledore explained in HBP , the seventh part oh voldemort's soul resides in his soul


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  #77  
Old May 20th, 2006, 6:33 pm
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

No, I think he helped Voldy with his horcurx. I think that letter addressed to Dumbledor was informing him what he had done & that he was ashamed.


  #78  
Old May 21st, 2006, 3:54 am
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedwigOwl
Aren't you contradicting yourself here....you say Bella thought he was dead but remained loyal. If she really knew about the horcruxes she would not have thought he was dead.
What I meant to say was that although it appeared Voldemort was Dead Bellatrix stayed loyal to him. Why would she stay loyal to someone who was dead? Because she had reason to believe that he was not dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meesha1971
I don't think R.A.B. refilled the basin - I think whoever helped him did. One of them drank the potion - the other reset everything before they left. The basin was refilled - the spell ensuring that it had to be drunk reset - etc... It is those little details that lead me to believe that R.A.B. may have known there were multiple Horcruxes. If he believed there was only one, why go to all that trouble? Why didn't they just do like Harry and Dumbledore - take it and run?

Instead these two people go in - one drinks the potion and is weakened - the other grabs the Horcrux, fights off the inferi - refills the basin - resets the spell - helps the weakened one back into the boat and back across the lake. They leave everything just as they found it. Why would they do that if they believed there was only one Horcrux?
But this would require that the person who came with R.A.B. is a potions genius, and is also a master of spells that he either 1) Knew what spells were put on the location, or 2) was so close to Voldemort that he knew what spells Voldemort had placed on his Horcrux. If indeed R.A.B. is Regulus, than who went with him that was so smart or so far into Voldemorts inner circle? Snape? Doubt it! Also like I mentioned before, how would they refill it? I do not think that a simple refilling charm could work, seeing how the person does not know exactly what the potion is.

Quote:
If Voldemort never wanted anyone to find his Horcruxes, why would the basin refill itself? That would imply that Voldemort expected someone to find it.
Well obviously when you are hiding something you do not want someone to find it, yet you know it is a possibility.


  #79  
Old May 21st, 2006, 4:13 am
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Godric
What I meant to say was that although it appeared Voldemort was Dead Bellatrix stayed loyal to him. Why would she stay loyal to someone who was dead? Because she had reason to believe that he was not dead.
I agree.

Quote:
But this would require that the person who came with R.A.B. is a potions genius, and is also a master of spells that he either 1) Knew what spells were put on the location, or 2) was so close to Voldemort that he knew what spells Voldemort had placed on his Horcrux. If indeed R.A.B. is Regulus, than who went with him that was so smart or so far into Voldemorts inner circle? Snape? Doubt it! Also like I mentioned before, how would they refill it? I do not think that a simple refilling charm could work, seeing how the person does not know exactly what the potion is.
Or that R.A.B. was a potions genuis. We don't know who drank the potion and who refilled it. We do know that he had to have help - he could not have gotten in and out safely by himself.

There was only one specific spell, as I recall - whatever prevented them from touching the potion and forcing them to drink it. That spell wouldn't have to be reset persay - drinking the potion didn't deactivate the spell - it went along with it. The doorway did reseal itself automatically - which would make sense to "trap" whoever got in there. The boat was under the water and had to be pulled up - the chain was hidden but I don't recall Dumbledore doing anything specific to reveal the chain - just searching for it.

So basically, being a potions genius was all that was required - to refill the basin. The spell surrounding the basin would not be deactivated by drinking the potion. They would have then fought the inferi and took the boat back across - put the boat back underwater - and re-open the doorway with blood.

For me, the fact that R.A.B. went to the trouble to replaces the locket with a fake and left a note - as well as leaving everything as he found it - suggests that he knew there was more than one. If he believed that was the only one, then why didn't he just take it and leave - destroying it as soon as he could? Why bother with the fake Horcrux and the note?

Quote:
Well obviously when you are hiding something you do not want someone to find it, yet you know it is a possibility.
Exactly - and you would want to know if that had occurred. You would not set the potion to refill itself because you would want to know if someone had gotten to the Horcrux.


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  #80  
Old May 21st, 2006, 4:19 am
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Re: Did RAB Destroy More Horcruxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meesha1971
Or that R.A.B. was a potions genuis. We don't know who drank the potion and who refilled it. We do know that he had to have help - he could not have gotten in and out safely by himself.
I have to say you got me there! R.A.B. did read the note, and did not act as if he would die from the potion, he sounded as if he would die from Death Eaters, which would not ultimately be the result of the potion, so I do not think he drank the potion. So I guess I will admit defeat...


 
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