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Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 25th, 2007, 2:24 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Well, it's not like little kids that would make fun of you and tell everyone else about it. Dumbledore wouldn't be all "GUESS WHAT! Voldemorts name is Tom Marvolo Riddle! LOL!". He always thinks about what he does, and he prpbably realized that telling everyone will make no difference.


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  #42  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:38 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
That's a great point!
Ollivander knows every wand he's ever sold, but like some ther people have mentioned, no one really had any reason to notice Tom Riddle other thn his talent. He was an orphan with no family left in the wizarding world, so outside of Hogwarts no one woul;d've really known about him. And also like others have said, Voldemort's true identity wasn't really important unil the events in CoS, not just for our background knowledge but for the wizarding community too. Even then ,though, it didn't need t obe widely known.
But in Ollivander's mind he may have sold one wand to a boy named Tom Riddle, and another wand to a different person calling himself Voldemort.


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  #43  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:42 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I would think that Ollivander would know Voldemort as Tom Riddle. I don't know. He just seems like the type that would be able to make the connection. Also, would he have sold Voldemort a wand? I know that some do think that he is on Voldemort's side, but if he is not, would he?


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  #44  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:48 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by sllagnire View Post
I would think that Ollivander would know Voldemort as Tom Riddle. I don't know. He just seems like the type that would be able to make the connection. Also, would he have sold Voldemort a wand? I know that some do think that he is on Voldemort's side, but if he is not, would he?
Voldemort's evil side did not show to the general public immediately. Afterall, he interviewed for the post of DADA Professor. He would not have done that if he were currently wanted by the Law. So, Ollivander would have little reason not to sell him a wand.


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  #45  
Old March 25th, 2007, 6:04 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Excellent observation!

This is one reason I think it strange that that knowledge did not move throughout the Wizarding World.

Ollivander is wise man, with an obviously keen memory. "I remember ever wand I have ever sold, Mr. Potter." If keeping Tom Riddle's name out of the public realm of knowledge is of no significance, then why would Ollivander not have told anyone that Tom Riddle owned the wand that gave him his scar? Of course, it has yet to be established that Tom Riddle/Voldemort's wand is his original wand, and not one obtained after he had shed his skin that was Tom Riddle.

So, I guess it is possible that he did not make the connection between Tom Riddle and Voldemort either.

This is a very good point and I believe probably accurate.

Tom returned to Ollivanders after his Hogwarts days and purchased another wand. Why? After one conversation with Ollivander, its easy to tell that he has very good memory and would be able to link any murders committed by LV to the wand he sold to Tom Riddle.

This would aid in his LV's plans to erase Tom Riddle out of the record books.


  #46  
Old March 25th, 2007, 7:57 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I like your ideas, Saint_Potter, but we know that Voldemort must have used the wand with the phoenix feather in to kill the Potters, as they came out of the wand during the priori incantatem.
In response to why it is not public knowledge, I think that if everyone knew, Voldemort would have a lot less respect from his followers. Some of them know that he was Tom Riddle as they were in the Slug Club with him, but I don't think Voldemort would have liked any references to him being a half-blood orphan.


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  #47  
Old March 25th, 2007, 8:45 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
I agree that he felt muggles weak, and wished to disavow himself from that connection of muggledom. However, I would not classify him as psychotic. A psychopath kills for no reason. Every murder (that we know of) he has committed had a purpose behind it. He is very calculating, and cool. Very few of his murders were done in the heat of passion or rage. (mine is a subtle distinction, but yes, he is a bit insane)
Whoa, hold on there. A psychopath, if he or she kills, kills for fun or to gain something. It's exciting, it breaks the rules, it puts them in a place of power. These people are charismatic; manipulative; mostly if not entirely unfeeling; extremely narcissistic; have no capacity for love or empathy; have a history of abusing humans and animals (as children, no less); have a difficult time acquiring and keeping friends; lack remorse, shame, and guilt; and are often pathological liars. Does that describe Voldemort? YES. Voldie is a psychopath/sociopath (they are two names for the same thing, by the way, also extremely similar to antisocial personality disorder).

Back on topic, I think Voldemort went to great lengths to prevent people from finding out about his past. He killed off his entire family so no one could track him as being the heir of Slytherin (imagine how that would have gone over after he released the basilisk...into Azkaban with the heir!), he killed off anyone human who could have revealed that he had collected the Founders' artifacts. He's currently trying to track down Slughorn, the person he asked about Horcruxes. He punishes his followers if they call him anything he doesn't want them to call him, including the name Voldemort.

Truthfully, he isn't Tom Riddle anymore, after all his transformations. He's practically unrecognizable, and that's assuming that anyone would connect the closted psychopath Tom Riddle with the openly psychopathic Voldemort. That's what being a psychopath is all about: until someone does something you don't like, you're charming. Everyone loves you because you're friendly and generous, and you essentially make yourself into whatever everyone wants you to be. But whoops! It's all a façade. You're not capable of feeling much other than pleasure and anger. You certainly don't love anyone, you lie constantly, and you take pleasure in hurting others.

The kids Voldie tortured weren't about to talk about what happened in that cave, and Voldemort avoided mentioning the orphanage as much as possible, I'm sure, and Dumbledore didn't tell anyone where he found Riddle, apparently. He spent 7 years at school putting on a show for everyone, but that's not unusual for a psychopath. As long as he's not openly thwarted, he'll keep his cool. So he probably seemed sweet to everyone except his "friends," who would be too cowed by his real personality, most likely, to say anything to anyone. Those "friends" still know his identity, but they all work for him so they're not about to reveal who he was.

Ollivander might recognize Voldemort as Riddle, and that might even explain his disappearance in HBP. Voldemort could have killed him, convinced him to defect to the DEs (threatening death if he didn't), or he could have gone into hiding because Voldie wanted to kill him so that he couldn't reveal that Riddle turned into Voldemort.


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  #48  
Old March 25th, 2007, 10:19 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Well we don't know the life expectancy of wands to determine how long wizards keep them. We know Neville Longbottom's wand was his fathers so perhaps they do last for a few years, in which case Voldy may have had only the one wand.

Voldy was angry that the diary was destroyed, partly because of his sould but perhaps also because the diary showed his true identity, something e wanted to keep a secret.


  #49  
Old March 25th, 2007, 10:50 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzingwhizzbee View Post
I like your ideas, Saint_Potter, but we know that Voldemort must have used the wand with the phoenix feather in to kill the Potters, as they came out of the wand during the priori incantatem.
In response to why it is not public knowledge, I think that if everyone knew, Voldemort would have a lot less respect from his followers. Some of them know that he was Tom Riddle as they were in the Slug Club with him, but I don't think Voldemort would have liked any references to him being a half-blood orphan.
I agree with that second part. Tom Riddle, the poor, half-blood orphan would probably have less respect from old pure-blood wizarding families like the Malfoys, and it was these families that were needed to help him in his quest for power and dominance.

Yes I think Tom bought his original wand as an 11 year old heading to Hogwarts, but after leaving Hogwarts, he at some point went back to Ollivander and purchased another wand. This would be the wand with the phoenix feather core, the wand Tom used as Voldemort. That way there is no further record of Tom Riddle.

In fact, with Priori Incantetum, why was it that the spirits stopped with the Potters? Is it possible they were the first murders he committed with that wand?


  #50  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:17 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I think LV only had one wand. Each wizard is meant for a single wand, which is why they perform best with it. LV was brilliant his entire life, and Ollivander recalls selling it to the young Tom Riddle. Do you have any canon besides the graveyard scene to back your theory up? I think it just stopped at the Potters because it was useless information before that and Jo didn't need it.


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  #51  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:20 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I think that like his lineage and half blood status he tends to keep his true identity on the down low.I mean Voldemort was his new,menacing name he fashioned for himself even when he was 16.Riddle isnt something he's proud of.


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  #52  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:45 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by mdb09 View Post
I think LV only had one wand. Each wizard is meant for a single wand, which is why they perform best with it. LV was brilliant his entire life, and Ollivander recalls selling it to the young Tom Riddle. Do you have any canon besides the graveyard scene to back your theory up? I think it just stopped at the Potters because it was useless information before that and Jo didn't need it.
I didn't mean that Priori Incantatem is proof positive that LV had a different wand, just wondering aloud why did the reapperance of the ghosts end with the Potters.

Having multiple wands throughout one's life is not that unusual. I believe in SS/PS, Ron is introduced as using Charlie's old wand, which means Charlie had to get a new wand at some point in time. Therefore Charlie had two wands throughout his lifetime.

But to the point at hand, we must remember that Tom was very anxious to remove shed as much "Riddle" as he could, distancing himself altogether from the persona of "Tom Riddle". He hated his muggle name, there is no question about it. He despised the name "Tom" even before he knew he was a wizard. In the middle of his schooling he changed his name to Lord Voldemort, killed the remaining members of his muggle family, and never used the name Riddle again.

It could be reasoned therefore that in his "extreme makeover" of himself (new identity, new name, new waxy skin look, seven split souls, etc.) that Tom Riddle's wand would remain a constant reminder of his former identity. It must go, right along with the rest of his "Riddle-ness".


  #53  
Old March 26th, 2007, 3:21 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I had never thought of Ron's wand in that way, just that Ron didn't do as well with a wand that wasn't his. I wonder why Charlie had to get a new wand. Maybe just because he used that one up? Or does taming dragons require something extra special?


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  #54  
Old March 26th, 2007, 6:40 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by mdb09 View Post
I think LV only had one wand. Each wizard is meant for a single wand, which is why they perform best with it. LV was brilliant his entire life, and Ollivander recalls selling it to the young Tom Riddle. Do you have any canon besides the graveyard scene to back your theory up? I think it just stopped at the Potters because it was useless information before that and Jo didn't need it.
I don't find any canon to suggest that Ollivander sold Harry's brother wand to any particularly aged Tom Riddle or Lord Voldemort, only that he points out that the wand that chose Harry is the brother wand of the one that gave him his scar.

Also, there is canon that a wizard/witch is not meant for ONLY ONE wand in his or her lifetime. Wands break, get lost, stolen, etc...and must be replaced. Ron's broke, so another wand from Ollivander's shop chose him when he went in the second time. Ollivander's shop (had) countless wands, but Harry tried only a few of them. He didn't even know which wand would choose Harry, but after a few attempts he had a hunch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Potter View Post
I didn't mean that Priori Incantatem is proof positive that LV had a different wand, just wondering aloud why did the reapperance of the ghosts end with the Potters.

Having multiple wands throughout one's life is not that unusual. I believe in SS/PS, Ron is introduced as using Charlie's old wand, which means Charlie had to get a new wand at some point in time. Therefore Charlie had two wands throughout his lifetime.

But to the point at hand, we must remember that Tom was very anxious to remove shed as much "Riddle" as he could, distancing himself altogether from the persona of "Tom Riddle". He hated his muggle name, there is no question about it. He despised the name "Tom" even before he knew he was a wizard. In the middle of his schooling he changed his name to Lord Voldemort, killed the remaining members of his muggle family, and never used the name Riddle again.

It could be reasoned therefore that in his "extreme makeover" of himself (new identity, new name, new waxy skin look, seven split souls, etc.) that Tom Riddle's wand would remain a constant reminder of his former identity. It must go, right along with the rest of his "Riddle-ness".
I agree with everything except your very last part. I think his first wand would have been a symbol of the best thing that ever happened to him: discovering he is a wizard. That is something that Harry and Volde have in common.


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  #55  
Old March 26th, 2007, 6:53 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Clearly those who taught him at school know his true identity. But he was only Tom Riddle while in school and a little while after while working for Mr. Burke. Other than that it was just as if a monster emerged out of nowhere. He wasnt famous as he would have been if he got a job in the ministry and rose to power. Perhaps this is why he decided not to take over the wizarding world from the inside. If he became a ministry official they would use his regular name which would spread around. If he kept himself under the radar enough he could come out of the shadows as Voldemort the greatest wizard ever known. If people knew him as Tom first it would have mortalized him. Made him seem like he still had some decency or morality, made him seem beatable.


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  #56  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:03 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

That makes a lot of sense.


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  #57  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:11 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Yah, plus I wouldn't really be intimidated by the well-spoken headboy named Tom Marvolo Riddle, Lord Voldemort just has that evil ring to it.


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Old March 26th, 2007, 7:36 pm
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  #59  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:55 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I think some people do know, but it's kind of irrelevant, and sort of shocking to hear the such a smart & charming boy would turn out to be such a...monster. That's like saying Hermione will be an evil witch who is gonna try to take over the wizarding world...not something you would really expect. Unlike Voldemort though, Hermione loves people (Ron, Harry, possibly Ginny, etc.) and has people that love her back. Most people probably never heard of a Tom Riddle, so they don't care, and probably would'nt even know.


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Old March 26th, 2007, 8:01 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Potter View Post
In fact, with Priori Incantetum, why was it that the spirits stopped with the Potters? Is it possible they were the first murders he committed with that wand?
Dumbledore stated in GOF that if Harry and Voldy ahd kept the connection more dead wizards would have appeared. Dumbledore would know how many wands Voldy had.

Ollivanders disapearance may have something to do with the fact that he knew who Voldy really was. Remember voldy didn't like the barman that had the same name as him, he hates the name tom and all that is associated with it.


 
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