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Batman 2: The Dark Knight



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  #281  
Old July 29th, 2008, 3:00 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

But readers of the comic book would have heard of him. He's a vicious serial killer. He had a cameo in Batman Begins. The Riddler and Penguin have been done to death and they are both slightly ridiculous no matter how they are done. Catwoman has also been done to death.


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  #282  
Old July 29th, 2008, 4:10 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

That's the problem with the fancy dress villains. It doesn't take much to make them laughable which is why Killer Croc or Charaxes would get a run in the movies.

Although it would be interesting to pit Bats against one of the Gotham vigilantes whom he thinks take things too far. Anarky would be good but too many people would think V for Vendetta.


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  #283  
Old July 29th, 2008, 4:59 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

I'd love to see Killer Croc.


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  #284  
Old July 30th, 2008, 1:55 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

I rewatched the film closer and like it more for it's Nolan appeal. He is a great filmmaker. I still think it could have used more action and been a little shorter. But overall I was pleased with it, the performances are fantastic, Ledger was in his best role and sadly his last. He was very in character more than I ever saw of any of his movies.


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  #285  
Old July 30th, 2008, 2:04 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

Comicbookwoorm--Okay, help me out. Where's the cameo for Mr. Zasz? I totally missed it (unless...was he the Arkham inmate who got special mention from Crane?). Also, I think you're wrong about Catwoman being "done to death." With the right writing and the right actress, I think she's the best shot at an interesting and strong female now that Dawes has been erased--It's important to see Wayne/Batman develop an interpersonal relationship--particularly now since he's isolated, playing the villain to save Gotham from itself. That would make someone like a well-executed Selena Kyle interesting to him and, at this moment, she'd believe the gap between them is a step and not a gulf--it might be interesting to find out how close to correct she is in that assumption.

A well-executed Poison Ivy would be interesting--but I have no idea what that would look or sound like--since I've only seen the Schumacher disaster and the animated caricature.


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  #286  
Old July 30th, 2008, 3:30 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by stacyINC View Post
I rewatched the film closer and like it more for it's Nolan appeal. He is a great filmmaker. I still think it could have used more action and been a little shorter. But overall I was pleased with it, the performances are fantastic, Ledger was in his best role and sadly his last. He was very in character more than I ever saw of any of his movies.
He's an awsome filmaker. Watch the Prestige and he'll be you're favorite director ever.

How could you cut the movie down though? I can't think of any scenes that could be made shorter or taken out.


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  #287  
Old July 30th, 2008, 5:46 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Watch the Prestige and he'll be you're favorite director ever.
Watched, but Brad Bird is still my favorite director.

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Also, I think you're wrong about Catwoman being "done to death." With the right writing and the right actress, I think she's the best shot at an interesting and strong female now that Dawes has been erased--It's important to see Wayne/Batman develop an interpersonal relationship--particularly now since he's isolated, playing the villain to save Gotham from itself. That would make someone like a well-executed Selena Kyle interesting to him and, at this moment, she'd believe the gap between them is a step and not a gulf--it might be interesting to find out how close to correct she is in that assumption.
That's very true. Batman needs a foil far more than Bruce Wayne does. At this point the villain should mostly be chosen based on their relationship with Batman...and Catwoman would be a good choice because they wouldn't get a lot of backlash about how she didn't live up to the Joker.

That's the problem with, say, the Riddler. No matter how you play him he's still going to end up looking like a really lame version of the Joker.

Quote:
A well-executed Poison Ivy would be interesting--but I have no idea what that would look or sound like--since I've only seen the Schumacher disaster and the animated caricature.
All they really have to do is find a really cute redhead and dress her up in green. Well, she should be able to act, too, but that's not required. Only recommended.


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  #288  
Old July 30th, 2008, 10:42 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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How could you cut the movie down though? I can't think of any scenes that could be made shorter or taken out.
Well the Hong Kong sequence was completely redundant. Yeah, it showed that Dent is already veering into murky territory by encouraging Batman to go after Lau, and it was a fun action scene, but that's it. I'm sure they could have cut that character completely and the movie would not have suffered at all, Lau never even got to testify, though it was amusing how Joker placed him on top of the money pile.

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That's very true. Batman needs a foil far more than Bruce Wayne does. At this point the villain should mostly be chosen based on their relationship with Batman...and Catwoman would be a good choice because they wouldn't get a lot of backlash about how she didn't live up to the Joker.
I just think Catwoman is far too cheesy to be in Nolan's movies without a radical reworking. One person in a spandex suit is enough. Bump that up to two and it would look absurd on screen IMO. I think they should either create their own villain, or come up with a unique take on Riddler. He needs to be as far away from Jim Carrey as possible. I'd also love them to bring back Rutger Hauer as Mr Earle, I could see him joining a rival company to Wayne Enterprises, whose CEO is the Riddler, something like that.


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  #289  
Old July 30th, 2008, 2:27 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by PureBloodGirl View Post
How could you cut the movie down though? I can't think of any scenes that could be made shorter or taken out.
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Originally Posted by yoshi2542
Well the Hong Kong sequence was completely redundant. Yeah, it showed that Dent is already veering into murky territory by encouraging Batman to go after Lau, and it was a fun action scene, but that's it. I'm sure they could have cut that character completely and the movie would not have suffered at all, Lau never even got to testify, though it was amusing how Joker placed him on top of the money pile.
Yep that's my exact opinion. If they'd cut all the Hong Kong business the story wouldn't have suffered and it would have been a perfect 2 hour-ish length movie.


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  #290  
Old July 30th, 2008, 5:29 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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I agree. The Joker was the character who brought in the audience and created the story. Though Harvey Dent's transformation and later actions (the concluding scene) were ultimately caused by the Joker, I would have preferred to directly see the Joker in the final scene. I did not find Dent's change to Two Face incredibly captivating, though I certainly understand the purpose of showing it, and I feel it took away a, what would be, perfect scene with the Joker.


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This slightly bothered me. Although Batman's lack of emotion is understandable, I felt as if Bruce Wayne should have been more traumatized by Rachel's death. I believe it could have worked well, showing Wayne's complete lack of control over Rachel's death (much like Harvey Dent's), but, instead of turning bad, he escapes to Batman (like in Rachel's letter, Bruce needs Batman), who is less abashed by her death.


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I did not find the ending unsatisfying, though I think it would have been better if the Joker was directly shown. I did feel the final moment was a little lacking, and I wish, after Gordon ends his speech of "the dark knight," they had cut to a clip of the Joker, hanging and laughing. This small insert would have, to me, topped off the film perfectly.

Yes, I completely agree on both counts.

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In many ways Bruce Wayne should be more attached to Rachel than even Harvey. There were child hood friends and in the first film, she was portrayed as the love of his life like mary jane is for spiderman, lois lane for superman, etc. In this film, Bruce wayne clearly was still in love with rachel and was looking forward to being with her again when he was going to give himself up as batman. That was why I was surprised at his lack of emotion when she died- especially since he had raced to save her not harvey. I would have expected him to be completely distraught like harvey was- and as you said, completely immerse himself into the batman persona for revenge. We did have that one scene when he is stoic and staring out the window with alfred, but I think there should have definitely been more emotion and anguish from bruce wayne at the sudden death of the love of his life.



As for the ending, I agree as well.

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I think the final scene should have been focused on the joker somehow- either laughing maniacaly hanging there or something like that. I don't think it should have just been the shot of two face's body and then batman running.


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  #291  
Old July 30th, 2008, 7:24 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

I seen it Thursday night, and it was absolutely awesome! I was quite reluctant to go because I didn't really like the first. It turned out to be spectacular! Bale rocked, and so did Ledger as the Joker. I am quite willing to go see it again!


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  #292  
Old July 30th, 2008, 7:37 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by SoulOfRebirth View Post
As for the ending, I agree as well.

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I think the final scene should have been focused on the joker somehow- either laughing maniacaly hanging there or something like that. I don't think it should have just been the shot of two face's body and then batman running.
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Yes I agree, the ending was a bit... lame. Not boring, just nothing terribly interesting either. I'd much prefer something exciting or creepy at the end like the joker laughing maniacally as you said. That gets my vote.

Having said that, I didn't mind Gary Oldman's voice-over... but still, they could have added something small like the Joker at the end as well.


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  #293  
Old July 30th, 2008, 10:28 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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As for the ending, I agree as well.

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I think the final scene should have been focused on the joker somehow- either laughing maniacaly hanging there or something like that. I don't think it should have just been the shot of two face's body and then batman running.
Really? I thought the ending was great. Batman riding off into the distance and Gary Oldman saying the line in my signiture. My heart is beating very fast right now at the thought of that awsome ending.


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  #294  
Old July 30th, 2008, 10:59 pm
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Really? I thought the ending was great. Batman riding off into the distance and Gary Oldman saying the line in my signiture. My heart is beating very fast right now at the thought of that awsome ending.
I guess I don't mean the final scene. That "dark knight" quote was great. I just didn't want the final shot of the joker to be so far before the actual ending of the movie. We still had that whole two face confrontation after we see the joker hanging. I would have preferred to have the joker closer to the end of the film.


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  #295  
Old July 31st, 2008, 12:12 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

Sorry, a little OT for what you all are discussing...

Me and my mom are going to see this movie Friday and I was wondering, do you need to watch the first Batman to fully appreciate this movie? Or can it be seen as a standalone?


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  #296  
Old July 31st, 2008, 1:30 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

I didn't see the first one but I followed it just fine. It's self-contained, or at least, self-contained enough that it makes sense. It seems like the only thing that was carried over from the first movie was the "love" story.


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  #297  
Old July 31st, 2008, 1:55 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by SoulOfRebirth View Post
I didn't see the first one but I followed it just fine. It's self-contained, or at least, self-contained enough that it makes sense. It seems like the only thing that was carried over from the first movie was the "love" story.
Don't forget Scarecrow's "cameo"... though if you didn't see the first one, you wouldn't know that


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  #298  
Old July 31st, 2008, 2:14 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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I guess I don't mean the final scene. That "dark knight" quote was great. I just didn't want the final shot of the joker to be so far before the actual ending of the movie. We still had that whole two face confrontation after we see the joker hanging. I would have preferred to have the joker closer to the end of the film.
Yeah that's kind of how I am too. We should have gotten a little bit more Joker towards the end of it, but not end the movie with him compleatly. I'd rather end it with Batman like they did.

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I would have liked to see what they did with the Joker though. Did the put him jail? Did they scentence him to death? Did he somehow escape? Was he captured at all? Did he suddenly fall out of the window and die? What happened? I really want to know. He might as well be dead since they can't bring him back. RIP Heath Ledger


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  #299  
Old July 31st, 2008, 3:23 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

Why hadn't the Scarecrow had a bigger part? I don't recall the first one, its been too long?


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  #300  
Old July 31st, 2008, 4:24 am
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Re: Batman 2: The Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by yoshi2542 View Post
Well the Hong Kong sequence was completely redundant. Yeah, it showed that Dent is already veering into murky territory by encouraging Batman to go after Lau, and it was a fun action scene, but that's it. I'm sure they could have cut that character completely and the movie would not have suffered at all, Lau never even got to testify, though it was amusing how Joker placed him on top of the money pile.
This sequence also set up Fox's sonar imaging technology, which Bruce later exploited. But I suppose, if the Hong Kong sequence were cut, this could have been inserted elsewhere without losing anything.
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Why hadn't the Scarecrow had a bigger part? I don't recall the first one, its been too long?
In Batman Begins,The Scarecrow conspired with Ra's al Gul to cause all the mayhem, putting the airborne poison in the water system and planning to evaporate all the water, driving Gotham insane. It was the big scene at the end that Batman had to stop.


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