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Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?



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  #1  
Old March 8th, 2009, 10:34 pm
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Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I just started wondering why the Triwizard Cup returned Harry and Cedric's body to Hogwarts when Harry summoned it in the graveyard. We know that most portkeys are only good for one use, from the Quidditch World Cup, so why was this one two-way. Also, as Moody was the one who turned it into a portkey, would it not be in his best interest to remove any escape route for Harry from the graveyard?

Just as a theory to start off with, I think that maybe Dumbledore had already made the cup a portkey to return the winning student out of the maze. Either Moody didn't know this, or Dumbledore had prevented the spell from being removed.


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  #2  
Old March 9th, 2009, 9:15 pm
GryffSolider  Female.gif GryffSolider is offline
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

Unless what you surmised actually did take place, which I doubt because Dumbledore was as shocked as anyone when he found out Barty Crouch Jr was masquerading as Mad Eye.

So I would think that this question would fall under

Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions.

Or port keys can be taken for a return trip to original start off point. Harry was told by the pale figure of his parents that his only way of escape was the portkey.


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  #3  
Old March 9th, 2009, 11:22 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I would hesitate to put this under inconsistencies. I expect that we can come up with a theory that would explain this, and I hope to.

I would expect that the "ghosts" knew about it because I think we can assume that they are all-seeing.


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Old March 9th, 2009, 11:49 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I thought Portkeys only went from one place to another and back again. In this case it was set to go to the graveyard from Hogwarts, so when he touched it again it took him back to Hogwarts.


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Old March 9th, 2009, 11:56 pm
featherfish81  Undisclosed.gif featherfish81 is offline
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

Quote:
Just as a theory to start off with, I think that maybe Dumbledore had already made the cup a portkey to return the winning student out of the maze. Either Moody didn't know this, or Dumbledore had prevented the spell from being removed.
That theory makes sense. The cup would probably have a spell on it to transport the winner out of the maze, so everyone would know who won. Moody's spell was in addition to that, and I guess more recent, so it went first? Or was made first, so it went first? I think that each portkey spell can only be used once, so if the same object had multiple spells on it, it could be used as a portkey multiple times.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 12:03 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I think Mad Eye aka Barty Crouch Jnr bewitched it to take Harry to the Graveyard, not knowing that Dumbledore had already cast the spell to make the Portkey come back to Hogwarts ....


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Old March 10th, 2009, 12:09 am
Raviolissimo  Undisclosed.gif Raviolissimo is offline
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

Crouch enchanted the cup to make it a Portkey.

if DD had suspected that the cup needed to be enchanted to return Harry to Hogwart's, why would he have let Harry put himself in danger ?

i think this is another plot hole/ inconsistency. or James father & mother, that came of Voldemort's wand via Priori Incantatum, was able to somehow make the cup a "round trip Portkey".

but, there might be a way.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 12:19 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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Originally Posted by featherfish81 View Post
That theory makes sense. The cup would probably have a spell on it to transport the winner out of the maze, so everyone would know who won. Moody's spell was in addition to that, and I guess more recent, so it went first? Or was made first, so it went first? I think that each portkey spell can only be used once, so if the same object had multiple spells on it, it could be used as a portkey multiple times.
That is exactly my theory. Possibly, Moody did not know about this idea, and assumed that the winner was supposed to just carry the cup out. Glad someone likes my theory.

The reason that I don't think that portkeys are a return ticket is because they are usually used by bewitching them to transport at a specific time. I doubt you would have to set 2 times when you only needed it to go one way. Also, the portkey didn't take Harry back to where he had originally been.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 1:32 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

great thread willfitz ...and i also think ur bang on the money with your theory! :nod:


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Old March 10th, 2009, 2:44 am
Hagridsgirl  Undisclosed.gif Hagridsgirl is offline
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I thought I saw somewhere that Voldemort wanted to return Harry's dead body back to Hogwarts without anyone knowing that he (Voldemort) had returned. Having the cup also be a return portkey would allow him to have Harry's body return to Hogwarts and have people think he was killed in the maze. I believe this was the original plan.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 3:43 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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Originally Posted by Hagridsgirl View Post
I thought I saw somewhere that Voldemort wanted to return Harry's dead body back to Hogwarts without anyone knowing that he (Voldemort) had returned. Having the cup also be a return portkey would allow him to have Harry's body return to Hogwarts and have people think he was killed in the maze. I believe this was the original plan.
That is a great point and I haven't thought of that. Even if it wasn't explicitly said by JK, it is a good theory.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 3:58 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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Originally Posted by Hagridsgirl View Post
I thought I saw somewhere that Voldemort wanted to return Harry's dead body back to Hogwarts without anyone knowing that he (Voldemort) had returned. Having the cup also be a return portkey would allow him to have Harry's body return to Hogwarts and have people think he was killed in the maze. I believe this was the original plan.
I agree. Had Harry not returned, it would have looked suspicious.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 8:09 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I'd say that Harry's return would have looked suspicious anyway. I mean, he wouldn't have an apparent cause of death, other than a small cut in his forearm. Also, a rather obvious question is how he would get to the cup if dead. I suppose Crouch would feed some story to Dumbledore. I think that Harry's death would set off alarm bells no matter what.

Also, just as a note about Voldemort's character, it wouldn't seem like the sort of thing he would do- trust someone else to bewitch the cup when he could do it himself. Not only did it give Harry the chance to escape, but it would have been an opportunity for Voldemort to do magic, which he was obviously longing to be able to do. I mean, having the cup ready to go back was a bit of a risk already- what if Harry had instinctively gone to pick up the valuable trophy when they dropped it...


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Old March 10th, 2009, 12:35 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

Quote:
The reason that I don't think that portkeys are a return ticket is because they are usually used by bewitching them to transport at a specific time. I doubt you would have to set 2 times when you only needed it to go one way. Also, the portkey didn't take Harry back to where he had originally been.
I agree. When going just one way why set a specific time? Also, if would have been set for a specific time it would have made the task a timed race, and if the champions had been too slow it could have transported out of the maze without anyone hanging on. I also think that Dumbledore put a Portkey spell on it to transport the winner out of the maze.


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Old March 10th, 2009, 10:41 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I have wondered this too. And I have read everyone else' theories. And some of it fit, but then someone would say something else that would - to me - make the other thing less likely. Someone mentioned Harry's parents telling him to take the trophy and it will take them back. And that made me think that maybe, the weird connection with the wands and all those past spells coming out - Thats a pretty crazy bit of magic, I dont really know how to explain what I am trying to say... but I am thinking that maybe that connection thing had something to do with the trophy being able to become a port-key again to, like, save Harry. Does that make sense?


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Old March 10th, 2009, 10:45 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

I think it's just a plot hole/inconsistency. No offense, but the theory that Dumbledore made it a Portkey first, to send the winner back to the beginning... well, I definitely do not think that's what happened. Like absolutely no way. Portkeys just don't work like that. If the Cup had become a Portkey twice, then why did it send him to the graveyard first and then to Hogwarts? Also, don't you think Dumbledore would have told the Champions that it was a Portkey, so they didn't get freaked out when they left? It just doesn't work.


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Old March 11th, 2009, 2:05 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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I think it's just a plot hole/inconsistency. No offense, but the theory that Dumbledore made it a Portkey first, to send the winner back to the beginning... well, I definitely do not think that's what happened. Like absolutely no way. Portkeys just don't work like that.
You are obviously right, I should have known that .

I'm sorry but that really doesn't seem to be that concrete of a disproof. If you are going to try to dispel a theory at least give a reasonable explanation.

Quote:
If the Cup had become a Portkey twice, then why did it send him to the graveyard first and then to Hogwarts? Also, don't you think Dumbledore would have told the Champions that it was a Portkey, so they didn't get freaked out when they left? It just doesn't work.
The idea is that Dumbledore would have made the cup a portkey so that it would take the first person to touch it (after Moody) to the outside of the maze. Moody would have put a spell to make it take the first person to the graveyard. As the cup couldn't take someone to two places at once, so the more recent spell takes precedent. Moody's spell executes when the first person touches the cup, then Dumbledore's spell executes when the next person touches it.

Also, Dumbledore didn't seem too worried about freaking people out with blast-ended skrewts and giant acromantula, not to mention finding their friends unconscious at the bottom of the great lake.


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Old March 11th, 2009, 7:46 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

wow this is a head scratcher. I always thought portkeys by nature were 2-way. I mean only we've only seen one other use of a portkey and that was 2-way. Sadly the mechanics of it aren't explained. This would be a great question to ask JKR.


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Old March 11th, 2009, 10:05 am
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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wow this is a head scratcher. I always thought portkeys by nature were 2-way. I mean only we've only seen one other use of a portkey and that was 2-way. Sadly the mechanics of it aren't explained. This would be a great question to ask JKR.
Which particular use was that? I don't believe that the portkeys at the Quidditch World Cup were two-way. I think that they were just set up again to go home.


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Old March 11th, 2009, 4:27 pm
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Re: Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts?

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Which particular use was that? I don't believe that the portkeys at the Quidditch World Cup were two-way. I think that they were just set up again to go home.
so they re-did the spell, in the midst of all that chaos?


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