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Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5



 
 
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  #1221  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 5:41 pm
ThePythia  Female.gif ThePythia is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Taylor_Elise View Post
But didn't you just say it doesn't matter that it's a kid's book?

Yeah, well killing off the main character is one thing. But making it seem that death is a wonderful thing and you get to meet your loved ones after dying is...well I'm not so comfortable with that.

I mean, if this happens, I won't be surprised if JKR is blamed for increase in suicides.


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  #1222  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 6:40 pm
Sweetbrier  Female.gif Sweetbrier is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by ThePythia View Post
Yeah, well killing off the main character is one thing. But making it seem that death is a wonderful thing and you get to meet your loved ones after dying is...well I'm not so comfortable with that.

I mean, if this happens, I won't be surprised if JKR is blamed for increase in suicides.

Oh, Jo will always be blamed for something.


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  #1223  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 7:16 pm
Taylor_Elise  Female.gif Taylor_Elise is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by ThePythia View Post
Yeah, well killing off the main character is one thing. But making it seem that death is a wonderful thing and you get to meet your loved ones after dying is...well I'm not so comfortable with that.

I mean, if this happens, I won't be surprised if JKR is blamed for increase in suicides.
Sad, but true, Sweetbrier ^^ makes a point too. No matter what happens, I'm sure someone will pin something on Jo. My point is, I don't really think that it matters.

The ending will happen as per Jo's desires. I can only hope Harry survives this so he can enjoy Voldemort's defeat with us, but I don't know.


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  #1224  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 8:13 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by ThePythia View Post
Yeah, well killing off the main character is one thing. But making it seem that death is a wonderful thing and you get to meet your loved ones after dying is...well I'm not so comfortable with that.

I mean, if this happens, I won't be surprised if JKR is blamed for increase in suicides.
Well, I guess I'm not really comfortable with the whole, "death is a failure that renders your existence and all relationships within it meaningless" vibe, either (not that you were saying that, of course, but it's something this thread has made me wonder about at times...) I don't think it's a good idea to make death this horrible thing, since really; it happens to everyone, right? Kids know that - I think I knew that by the time I was seven (and that's probably quite late, actually). I don't understand why it shouldn't be explored in children's fiction in that case, especially with a brave, well-balanced, realistic character like Harry.

Edit: Sorry, that was a bit of a straw man, wasn't it? *facepalm* I just get quite bewildered by the attitude that death has to be this big angry face of doominess otherwise it's sending a bad message.


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  #1225  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 8:29 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

As far as the "childrens books heroes dont die" goes ...

Has any of you ever read The Narnia Chronicles? There all the heroes die (apart from Susan) - Now somemight say, that they are not entirely childrens books, but Jo also knows, that her readers who were children when HP 1 came out have now reached an age, where they could cope with Harry dying.

They have watched him come into puberty, the books have got more and more gruelsome and violent, and I also go with the fact, tjhat Harrys death is the only way she can really stay true to herself and not write an 8th book in a few years time.

And I still beleive the Centaurs saw it all coming in Book 1 - that Harry will die in the final battle in the magical forrest.

nano


  #1226  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 9:04 pm
oneinhufflepuff  Female.gif oneinhufflepuff is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

For:
1. Jo doesn't want to write any sequels.
2. Harry could be a horcrux and that may mean he has to die. (But not necessarily)
3. It's hard to imagine Harry all grown up, he's a boy hero.
4. Trelawney's and others ominous predictions. (Hermione in the PoA movie: "You're both dying...") etc.
5. The US editor said he sobbed and sobbed and the book is very emotional.
6. Mary GrandPre also said the book was hard to read because it was sad.
7. Harry might be happier to see his parents and Dumbledore again, and this could be when we see Sirius again.

Against:
1. Harry is the "Boy Who Lived"
2. Someone claimed that before she got famous a little girl asked JKR in a bookstore if the trio would live and she said yes. (She could have changed her mind, though)
3. The books are for children, Harry dying is very dark.
4. There is a Harry Potter themepark.
5. The prophecy may mean "one lives and the other dies" (but the prophecy isn't the truth, Voldy just thinks it is)
6. Popular opinion and hope is that he lives (but JKR may not be one to listen to this, she could write it so well we don't care)
7. Harry could sort-of die and still live, IE he could go through the veil and see Sirius but also come back somehow.

Personally I think he will live but at some great cost. Living a life without some very close friends (Hagrid possibly), maybe losing his powers, or some other sad thing. I also really like the idea that he goes through the veil and gets to see Sirius but he returns and lives.


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  #1227  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 10:33 pm
Sweetbrier  Female.gif Sweetbrier is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by nano View Post
As far as the "childrens books heroes dont die" goes ...

Has any of you ever read The Narnia Chronicles? There all the heroes die (apart from Susan) - Now somemight say, that they are not entirely childrens books, but Jo also knows, that her readers who were children when HP 1 came out have now reached an age, where they could cope with Harry dying.


nano
Good lord, the narnia kids died? I didn't know that! I only saw one of the movies...

Yea, and I agree with you, I was around 11 when I read the first book, and I've grown up with the books now. But as for being able to cope with Harry dying, I'd go balistic... but that's just me.


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  #1228  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 11:28 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Sweetbrier View Post
Good lord, the narnia kids died? I didn't know that! I only saw one of the movies...

Yea, and I agree with you, I was around 11 when I read the first book, and I've grown up with the books now. But as for being able to cope with Harry dying, I'd go balistic... but that's just me.
Sorry if I spoilt the Narnia Chronicles for anyone ... but yes - there are seven books in the chronicle (7 again) and in three Lucy & Edmund take part (Susan doesnt in the last part but Peter does) And Lucy, Edmund, Peter and also their parents (if I remeber that correctly) die in a train collision at the very end ...

The narnia chronicles do have a kind of religious background though, although they can be read without interpretation of this. But fact is they were written in a "childish" way - definitely for children - and still the children die, who the young readers by that time have become very fond of.

But even if I would prefer Harry to live - I cant see him as an adult - and why should he have to grow up - if he dies in book 7 he will already at his young age have had a fulfilled life - full of adventure, love, fun & frindship and full of the hardship that comes with it also. But I do beleive although it would be sad if he dies, that Jo will write it in a way, that we will be happy for Harrys sake, i.e at last he will be with his parents and Sirius or something like that.

nano


  #1229  
Old June 22nd, 2007, 11:44 pm
swishandflick11  Female.gif swishandflick11 is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneinhufflepuff View Post
For:
2. Harry could be a horcrux and that may mean he has to die. (But not necessarily)
Against:
1. Harry is the "Boy Who Lived"
I'm sure this has all been said before, but I'm at the end of the discussion so I'll just explain what I think.
Basically, I think this quote pretty much sums the ending up.

Harry was the boy that lived. For some reason, Voldemort couldn't kill him, maybe because as he was doing so, he put a part of his soul into Harry. I think Harry is the final horcrux.

But Jo wouldn't kill off Harry. He's the boy that lived. Millions of people would be devastated to see Harry die. Even though she has been.. you could say.. ruthless while killing off those that Harry loves (I've heard she had to kill off two more characters she wasn't intending on), I still believe that she won't kill Harry, Ron, or Hermione. Anybody else that Harry loves has a good chance for being killed, but somehow I don't think she would kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione. They are the heroes of the books.

So I guess I'm "sitting on the fence", but I believe that Harry is the final horcrux, however I think he will kill himself but not die (that doesn't make much sense, hopefully you understand what I'm getting at). I think there will be a way that he will have to get rid of the horcrux in him, maybe his scar is a horcrux, but I don't think he will die.


  #1230  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 1:18 am
oneinhufflepuff  Female.gif oneinhufflepuff is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by swishandflick11 View Post

So I guess I'm "sitting on the fence", but I believe that Harry is the final horcrux, however I think he will kill himself but not die (that doesn't make much sense, hopefully you understand what I'm getting at). I think there will be a way that he will have to get rid of the horcrux in him, maybe his scar is a horcrux, but I don't think he will die.
You know that's basically exactly what I think. Many people seem to think that the "Harry lives" option means a happy ending. I'm 99% positive that Deathly Hallows will have a horribly bittersweet and downright terribly sad ending. If it's not from Harry dying, it must be from him de-horcruxing himself in some painful way, or losing his powers, or something just incredibly sad.

I'd say the closest comparison that I'm imagining is the end of Lord of the Rings. In case anyone hasn't seen/read the end of LotR:
Spoiler: show
Yeah, Frodo lives, but does he really live? He's depressed and leaves all his friends to go over the sea never to be heard from again. That's the kind of ending I have in mind for Harry, the "Frodo ending"...lol!

And I do think he's a horcrux, but that's of course a totally different thread. Anyway I'm preparing myself to cry buckets!!


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Last edited by oneinhufflepuff; June 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 am.
  #1231  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 1:25 am
YamisChan  Female.gif YamisChan is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

i think harry will die. the whole 'The Boy Who Lived' thing kind of confirms it for me. the boy who lived. 'not the boy who lives'. as in he did live once, but she's not imortal, he's goingg to die at some point and it will probably be in the final battle as it would be a sad, but ultimitly happy ending as harry would have sacrificed himself to save everyone else.


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  #1232  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 2:04 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

i don't think harry will die. if he does, it is just defeating the purpose of "good always triumphs over evil". by harry dieing, voldemort will gain unimaginable power (more than he already has) and will, once again, wreak havoc and destruction upon the wizarding world. i don't think Jo would subject the wizarding world to this, but you never know. if harry dies, at least it will have been in the fight against voldemort, that at least is a truly heroic death. and if he does die, he will be reunited with his mom and dad, sirius, and dumbledore...


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  #1233  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 2:06 am
tricia_16_  Female.gif tricia_16_ is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I don't think he will. Like above, good will triumph evil. I think someone will die and that it will be a FIERCE battle, but no, I'm fairly certain that Harry will not die.


  #1234  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 11:27 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by faerie_wings View Post
i don't think harry will die. if he does, it is just defeating the purpose of "good always triumphs over evil". by harry dieing, voldemort will gain unimaginable power (more than he already has) and will, once again, wreak havoc and destruction upon the wizarding world. i don't think Jo would subject the wizarding world to this, but you never know. if harry dies, at least it will have been in the fight against voldemort, that at least is a truly heroic death. and if he does die, he will be reunited with his mom and dad, sirius, and dumbledore...
If Harry should die - I reckon it would be a heroic death that has to be to finish off Voldy - such as sacrificing himself (along with the final horcrux - my belief: his scar). So in that case the wizarding world WOULD be able to finish off Voldy, because he would then again be mortal. Perhaps Ron gets to do that bit?

Or even the veil will play a role - perhaps Harry doesnt have to die, but has to poke his head through the veil to get rid of the scar - (What does happen if you only put your head through?) Voldy tries to stop him and gets pushed behind the veil, which should be deadly for him after the last Horcrux has been finished off. Perhaps Harrys sees Sirius, DD and his parents there and even decides to step beyond the veil himself ...

But then again in ps/ss it looks as if the centaurs have foreseen the final battle in the magical forrest - whatever the outcome, Harry dying or not, I reckon Jo will write a real good showdown and lead Harry into happiness - wether in death rejoined with his parents or alive triumphing over Voldy. It will be a great ending anyway, and I just cant wait.

nano


  #1235  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 12:55 pm
operakatz  Undisclosed.gif operakatz is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by shaun0505 View Post
I haven't read all the posts but I think Harry will die. The prophecy just seems to say that.

So, Harry must kill Voldemort, or Voldemort must kill Harry. Simple.

If Harry kills Voldemort then Harry must die because he's killed Voldemort. But then if Voldemort kills Harry, he must die because he killed Harry. Make sense?

Of course there'll probably be some in depth reason why Harry will die, more important than the prophecy reason I just gave.

Also if you look at OotP. Harry says something about the line For neither can live while the other survives. I think Jo drew importance to this line because it suggests that Harry could die. Also again in HBP, he refers to the same line of the prophecy.
Of course it could just be a red herring. Oh well.

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Well, we're dealing with grammar here...

For neither can live while the other survives...

That doesn't read that both must die. Not at all. It clearly states that both cannot live. One must die at the hand of the other. Harry cannot survive if Voldy survives, and vice versa. Harry can only survive if he kills Voldy OR Voldy can only survive if he kills Harry.

Anyhoo...

I'm in the Harry Survives camp...

I think it will be Harry's ability to accept death and look death in the face that will be the key. Voldemort's greatest fear seems to be death. He's spent his lifetime and magical study trying to circumvent death. Voldemort isn't afraid to kill (obviously) but he is terrified of dying.

DD also mentioned to Harry that the prophecies weren't set in stone. Harry can choose to dismiss it. Voldemort has invested a lot of time and energy in his belief in the prophecy. There's probably something here that Harry could take advantage of to destroy Voldy.

I still think Harry manages to come through it. And it's not due to any sort of "this is a children's series" thing either. The publishers put the series into the children's section, not the author, so I don't for a moment believe that JK would put any thought into worrying about what her publishers' audience will think about her choice of ending the series. She's writing the story she wants to tell.

Regardless, live or die, it's always hard (at least for me) to say goodbye to beloved characters and their story. I remember the withdrawal pains I went through when I was a teen during my Dragonriders phase...the knowledge that I'd never get anything more about F'lar and Lessa was just so awful...and I'm sure it's much worse for the author (even when it's a bit of a relief to not feel obligated to write more)...whether or not Harry lives in DH, it will be like a death for JK because she won't be breathing more life into the characters after this.


  #1236  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 6:12 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by faerie_wings View Post
i don't think harry will die. if he does, it is just defeating the purpose of "good always triumphs over evil". by harry dieing, voldemort will gain unimaginable power (more than he already has) and will, once again, wreak havoc and destruction upon the wizarding world. i don't think Jo would subject the wizarding world to this, but you never know. if harry dies, at least it will have been in the fight against voldemort, that at least is a truly heroic death. and if he does die, he will be reunited with his mom and dad, sirius, and dumbledore...
If Harry died, and Voldemort lived, does that mean that now Voldemort can never die?

I don't think Harry would die without bringing Voldemort down with him.


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  #1237  
Old June 24th, 2007, 4:28 am
Taylor_Elise  Female.gif Taylor_Elise is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneinhufflepuff View Post
I'd say the closest comparison that I'm imagining is the end of Lord of the Rings. In case anyone hasn't seen/read the end of LotR:
Spoiler: show
Yeah, Frodo lives, but does he really live? He's depressed and leaves all his friends to go over the sea never to be heard from again. That's the kind of ending I have in mind for Harry, the "Frodo ending"...lol!

And I do think he's a horcrux, but that's of course a totally different thread. Anyway I'm preparing myself to cry buckets!!
I agree completely!!! I have been wracking my brain to come up with a metaphor for how I truly think the series will end, and for the life of me couldn't think of anything fitting enough. LoTR, definitely caps that one.

Wow, I'm still dumbfounded I didn't think of that before...but yes, that makes the most sense to me. In fact, I tried to make that point earlier either in this thread or another one, but I couldn't find the words. I used the example of Harry's profession--possibly an Auror?--seeming too...plain and normal to me. I feel that if Harry's going to defeat Voldemort (and he WILL...), it's going to be the ultimate, indescribable point in his life that he'll always look back on.

It's like the sports player analogy. Your dad played football in college, was about to get drafted after this big game where he made 2039439 touchdowns...and in the last few seconds, he gets irreparably injured. Can't play anymore. So, for the rest of his life, he sits at a desk job day dreaming about the high point in his career and how everything has just gone downhill since then.

Not an exact duplicate, but close enough.
The "Frodo Ending" is better--if Harry lives (and I want to say he doesn't), it's going to be bittersweet and sorrowful like the example you gave.


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  #1238  
Old June 24th, 2007, 6:43 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by Taylor_Elise View Post
I agree completely!!! I have been wracking my brain to come up with a metaphor for how I truly think the series will end, and for the life of me couldn't think of anything fitting enough. LoTR, definitely caps that one.

Wow, I'm still dumbfounded I didn't think of that before...but yes, that makes the most sense to me. In fact, I tried to make that point earlier either in this thread or another one, but I couldn't find the words. I used the example of Harry's profession--possibly an Auror?--seeming too...plain and normal to me. I feel that if Harry's going to defeat Voldemort (and he WILL...), it's going to be the ultimate, indescribable point in his life that he'll always look back on.

It's like the sports player analogy. Your dad played football in college, was about to get drafted after this big game where he made 2039439 touchdowns...and in the last few seconds, he gets irreparably injured. Can't play anymore. So, for the rest of his life, he sits at a desk job day dreaming about the high point in his career and how everything has just gone downhill since then.

Not an exact duplicate, but close enough.
The "Frodo Ending" is better--if Harry lives (and I want to say he doesn't), it's going to be bittersweet and sorrowful like the example you gave.
I would find the LotR ending really depressing, to be honest. I'd much rather Harry died, if it's a choice between that and him living as an irrevocably emotionally scarred war hero. Of course, I'm not saying book seven is going to be easy on him by any stretch, but if Voldemort's gone I'd really like for Harry to be able to have some sense of moving on - you know, positively. He'll have done what he set out to do, and whilst he'll have lost people in the process, I'd like him to have a chance to live a somewhere near happy existence after that.

(See, I'm fluffy at heart, guys! ^_^)


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  #1239  
Old June 24th, 2007, 7:06 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

i still say no, but it would be shocking and if it works for the story i don't see how it will but ifit does i guess it works but .......i think snape will bit it no harry..


  #1240  
Old June 24th, 2007, 9:46 am
Finn_Solomon  Male.gif Finn_Solomon is offline
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I believe Harry will die. JK likes her Greek tragedies, and Harry really fits into the mould of a tragic hero, noble but with an unescapable duty to perform and an inevitable demise at the end of it all.

Certain things like JK considering killing off Harry so no one else could write their own adaptations, and the introduction of the epilogue scene swung it for me. The epilogue seems perfect for a gathering of Harry's closest friends and allies to recount how he saved the wizarding world.

One last thing, JK's a Christian and while her work does not reference religion directly, it does contain very strong Christian themes and messages. I think Harry will follow the path of another great saviour and sacrifice himself to save the people he loves.


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