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NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film



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  #161  
Old November 22nd, 2016, 2:19 pm
Midnightsfire  Undisclosed.gif Midnightsfire is offline
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
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Such as, come on, you're going to rely on randomly dousing people with trace amounts of an Obliviatory substance to precisely remove the exact amount of memories needed? And do wizards not themselves use any of the New York water supply? I suppose it's possible with their ability to conjure water, but it seems awfully risky nonetheless.
A fair point.
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Also, the plot leaves us a little confused as to the fate of the real Graves. We have to assume that this was polyjuice potion, right? But was any of the real Graves in the movie at all? If not, where is he and what is he really like?
I admit I skipped over this point in the movie, thinking he was killed after the switch was done.
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My final quibble is that, and I accept that there are differences between the 1940s USA and the modern Ministry in Britain, but how could it be acceptable to go directly from an individual interrogation to the death penalty without any proper trial? This was an extreme stretch for me to accept while watching. I also was hoping the whole movie, given that Newt had brought up the differing philosophies on wizard/muggle relationships between the USA and the British Isles, that he would suggest Queenie and Jacob elope to Britain with him at the end.
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The era was the Roaring 20s; 1926 to be exact. Had it been the '40s, the harshness could easily have been attributed to WWII.
Now, I do agree that the penalty was unremittingly harsh, but think of who exactly was doling out the death penalty. It wasn't the president. And Grindelwald had time to poison policies. In particular any policy dealing with relations between No-majs with witch and wizards.

On an unrelated point, I find the Obliviate charm in a category similar to the "Unforgivable Curses." I certainly can understand the reasons to use it...but damn. It's still one step below the Imperius and that's too close as it is.


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  #162  
Old November 23rd, 2016, 9:53 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

I enjoyed the film a lot and there was something special about being able to take my boys to see a Wizarding world film.

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Most of what I was going to say has been said in regards that I had the same thoughts about what had happened in relation to the Dumbledore family.

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My 11-year-old is becoming as obsessed with all things Potter as I and his father are and when the name Lestrange was mentioned he grabbed my hand and whispered 'what is going on there!' neither of us has come up with a good answer yet.


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  #163  
Old November 23rd, 2016, 4:39 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by Sereena
I was quite disappointed with this movie. The characters were nice but a bit blah compared to the ones in HP. I was bored during most of the scenes where Newt was chasing some creature, though he was cute with the way he was taking care of them. Re plot: It seemed like JKR had many ideas and yet couldn't sort out which ones she wanted to use so it ended up being a kitchen-sink type of thing.

I do think the sequels will be exciting especially if they bring in more references to HP. But I'm skeptical about there being five movies. Three would have sufficed, IMO. I guess it depends where it's all going.

JKR has already received criticism over casting Johny Depp who is accused (or maybe even convicted?) of abusing his wife. I understand separating the man from the work but I still think that someone with JKR's convictions should have taken a stand and cast someone else. Surely there are plenty of other actors who could pull off that role.

Overall, I feel like these will be great movies for people who want to know more about Dumbledore and his family. But I hope the future movies will not rest entirely upon the HP laurels.
It's inevitable that Beasts would be driven by the Potter connection, and I'm not sure this film did enough to make this series more standalone. Especially since it sounds like future films are going to feature Newt less and Grindelwald more, tying more and more directly into the Potter franchise.

Despite this, I went into this film with pretty much no expectations and no real desire to compare it to Potter. And it was a fun film, good story, and nice to see the wizarding world in a different setting. Of course I have a few issues about the mechanics of the Beasts world versus those of the Potter world, but they didn't really detract from the experience. My biggest qualm is how Hollywood-y this film seemed at the expense of the characterization and story. That is, a lot of action and CGI candy took center stage.

In short, I enjoyed the film, but I wouldn't be motivated to see another if it weren't for the Potter connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz
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Such as, come on, you're going to rely on randomly dousing people with trace amounts of an Obliviatory substance to precisely remove the exact amount of memories needed? And do wizards not themselves use any of the New York water supply? I suppose it's possible with their ability to conjure water, but it seems awfully risky nonetheless.

Also, the plot leaves us a little confused as to the fate of the real Graves. We have to assume that this was polyjuice potion, right? But was any of the real Graves in the movie at all? If not, where is he and what is he really like?

My final quibble is that, and I accept that there are differences between the 1940s USA and the modern Ministry in Britain, but how could it be acceptable to go directly from an individual interrogation to the death penalty without any proper trial? This was an extreme stretch for me to accept while watching.

I also was hoping the whole movie, given that Newt had brought up the differing philosophies on wizard/muggle relationships between the USA and the British Isles, that he would suggest Queenie and Jacob elope to Britain with him at the end.
Spoiler: show
I agree with all of this. The Thunderbird Obliviation technique seemed a bit cheap: much like the Statue of Liberty Neuralyzer in Men in Black II! And it was interesting that the wizarding culture in America is such that Tina and Queenie never seemed to consider rebelling and preventing Jacob from being Obliviated. Given that this wizarding community seems to coexist alongside 'No-Majs' (wear Muggle clothes, enter MACUSA through the front door of the Woolworth building), they seem to have very strict laws against any interaction - which seems a bit impractical. But surely there are Muggle-borns, and their parents aren't Obliviated? But apparently dating/marrying No-Majs is off-limits.

And I guess it's Polyjuice Potion (according to David Heyman - who confirms there is a real Graves that we didn't see in the film), though I think that's a bit of a change from what we know from the original books: if Revelio worked to transform a Polyjuiced person, then why did Harry and Dumbledore wait minutes for Crouch to transform in GoF? And one would think that would be a standard technique during wartime for seeing who might be Polyjuiced...

I also wonder how long Grindelwald was impersonating Graves. At first I thought it impractical for Grindelwald to be away from his war for so long, but then the film did set it up with a newspaper headline of "Where is Grindelwald?" and Voldemort took a months-long hiatus in DH in search of the Elder Wand. Grindelwald is just searching for his Elder Wand - an Obscurus. Though a bit surprising he's not more focused on the Hallows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montse View Post
I have some questions, but I dont want to spoil people. I asked my questions in another Potter community, but honestly was not satisfied with the replies I got, as I am when I post my questions here,some replies were just mugglish and absurd.Is there a thread to post Fantastic Beasts questions ,without spoiling people ? Thanks !
I think this is the thread to discuss, though in spoiler tags for now.


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  #164  
Old November 24th, 2016, 2:37 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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I have several questions .1. What kind of spell /potion do you suppose Grindy is using to disguise himself ? My first thought is Polyjuice, if so, can revelio undo the spell like it did in the film? .We had never seen that. When Crouch Jr. Is caught , Dd waits for the potion to wear off,if Revelio could do this, wouldn't he had done that ? And again , if it is Polyjuice, there has to be a real person called Graves. Now if that was not polyjuice, but some sort of comple x transiguration like the put on Harry in Cursed Child to make him look like Voldemort , can that last so long.I recall Harry had a limited amount of time. Or, again, was it transfiguraton like they put on Ron in DH , and created this Graves person and he confunded everyone into believing his existance,if so thats a bit of a stretch if you ask me.

2. Accio for disarming ? Can accio do that ? Was expelliarmus a modern spell that had not been invented back then ?

3. Grindy I suppose already has the Elder wand . We dont see it on the film , did we ? I suppose it will surface later.

4.I think the answer to my last question so far, is because it was needed for the story to take place.But anywho, here it goes : Why not travel via Thunderbird using a disillusionment charm? Sirius traveled via Hippogriff very long distances.I recall him sending a tropical bird to Harry,or something like that. I am not very familiar with Thunderbirds , been not really intrested about reading those Pottermore bits. Can you ride Thunderbirds ?


I will appreciate if someone shares some thoughts about these.
Thanks for answering my question about where to post Mr.Sleepyhead


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  #165  
Old November 26th, 2016, 10:20 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

Itís been so long since Iíve posted on here I had to remind myself how to use spoiler tags. Itís like Iím a first year again.

I enjoyed the movie a lot more than I thought I would. I admit, I was reluctant to see how this new addition to the lore would be handled, but I think for the most part it did alright. Iím completely behind the casting of Eddie Redmayne as Scamander, and I look forward to seeing him in the next few films.

As for the other characters:
Spoiler: show
I was a bit disappointed by Tinaís character, in that there didnít seem to be much there. She didnít really do much aside from interrupt important meetings and get them all arrested, and even when she has the chance to fight sheís largely ineffective (though granted, she is fighting one of the most powerful dark wizards of all time). I guess I was expecting more from her as an ex-Auror. Sheís supposed to be the best of the best, but I donít think that really came across in the film. I think her sister, Queenie, got a lot more attention. Sheís a natural legilimens and quick on her feet, as we saw when she immediately grasped the situation with Tina and Newt and quickly got them out of there. I was also hoping for a bit more from Jacob, who seems like heís just there to stare and gawk at the magical elements, but I think he handled the revelation of an entire wizarding world rather well, and his natural affinity for its wonders is charming in its own way.


I did find the movie fairly predictable, as I guessed the two major twists right away, but itís still nice to see how those two plots intertwined.

I am a bit confused about one point that everyone keeps bringing up:
Spoiler: show
How is Ariana connected to the Obscurus/Obscurial plotline? Granted, itís been awhile since I read Book 7, but I thought Ariana was a squib and ashamed of by a pureblooded mother. If Obscuruses are created through repressed magic, why would this be the case with Ariana, where I imagine her family would try to encourage any sign that she was magical?


Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
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Such as, come on, you're going to rely on randomly dousing people with trace amounts of an Obliviatory substance to precisely remove the exact amount of memories needed? And do wizards not themselves use any of the New York water supply? I suppose it's possible with their ability to conjure water, but it seems awfully risky nonetheless.
Spoiler: show
I had some major problems with this too. Is thinks a blanket oblivious spell, and everyone in New York is just going to wake up with amnesia? Is it just going to wipe their memory of this specific event and, if so, how is it doing that considering it wasnít cast by an individual? How are the wizards walking through the rain fixing everything without being obliviated themselves without using a magical umbrella like we later see Queenie using? How long do the effects of this venom/obliviate spell last? What about the water that runs to other cities? When it evaporates again? I felt like this was mostly a deus ex plot hole device and wasnít thought out all that much.


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My final quibble is that, and I accept that there are differences between the 1940s USA and the modern Ministry in Britain, but how could it be acceptable to go directly from an individual interrogation to the death penalty without any proper trial? This was an extreme stretch for me to accept while watching.
Spoiler: show
I did wonder about that as well, given that in Europe it seems there is no death penalty, given that mass-murderers are only sent to prison in Azkaban. As for why they were escorted straight from interrogation to the death chamber, I agree with what other said in that it was Grindelwald giving the order (though why those other workers went along with it, one of whom appeared to know Tina, I donít know). But the existence of the death penalty itself in America I found interesting given that it doesnít seem to be present in Europe, and I wonder if it is a commentary on the American justice system. As an American, I can definitely see us having a magical death penalty where other nations do not.

But can we talk about the style of the death penalty though? That chamber with all the memories of those condemned to it. That they can see presumably the happiest moments of their lives so they are at peace right before they die--I actually found that very interesting. And itís noteworthy that they werenít simply AKíd somewhere instead--that the Killing curse is still considered forbidden even for those sentenced to death.


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Originally Posted by Montse View Post
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I have several questions .1. What kind of spell /potion do you suppose Grindy is using to disguise himself ? My first thought is Polyjuice, if so, can revelio undo the spell like it did in the film? .We had never seen that. When Crouch Jr. Is caught , Dd waits for the potion to wear off,if Revelio could do this, wouldn't he had done that ? And again , if it is Polyjuice, there has to be a real person called Graves. Now if that was not polyjuice, but some sort of comple x transiguration like the put on Harry in Cursed Child to make him look like Voldemort , can that last so long.I recall Harry had a limited amount of time. Or, again, was it transfiguraton like they put on Ron in DH , and created this Graves person and he confunded everyone into believing his existance,if so thats a bit of a stretch if you ask me.
Spoiler: show
My first thought was that this was a transfiguration spell, rather than Polyjuice Potion, given how frequently you have to keep drinking it to maintain appearances, and we never see Graves drinking from something like we did with Moody in GoF. But this could be an instance of Ďmovie forgetting its rulesí which tends to happen in long series.


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Originally Posted by Montse View Post
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2. Accio for disarming ? Can accio do that ? Was expelliarmus a modern spell that had not been invented back then ?
Spoiler: show
I assumed the spell was used to summon the wands, whereas Expelliarmus just makes it fly out of a personís hand, and not necessarily into the hands of the caster, so it seems like a more guaranteed way to actually get ahold of your opponentís wand (and on that note, I think at least half the difficulties faced by the characters in the movie could have been solved by a good Summoning spell--especially with that slippery niffler!).


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Originally Posted by Montse View Post
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3. Grindy I suppose already has the Elder wand . We dont see it on the film , did we ? I suppose it will surface later.
Spoiler: show
I donít think he has it yet, mostly because it seems like an important plot point theyíll want to use in a later movie. The wand we see him use in the movie (Gravesís wand? Donít government officials need to present their wands to check into work, at least in the MoM?) is definitely not the Elder Wand, if we assume they are maintaining its appearance from the original HP films.


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Originally Posted by Montse View Post
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Why not travel via Thunderbird using a disillusionment charm? Sirius traveled via Hippogriff very long distances.I recall him sending a tropical bird to Harry,or something like that. I am not very familiar with Thunderbirds , been not really intrested about reading those Pottermore bits. Can you ride Thunderbirds ?
Spoiler: show
Iím not familiar with them myself (and am quite far behind in my Pottermore reading) but would a Thunderbird be tame enough to allow someone to ride it? The bird we see in the movie appears to be intelligent enough to follow Newtís request in regards to the obliviating venom, which begs the question why Newt didnít just let it find itís own way home after setting it free in Egypt.


I will say, even though I had mixed feelings about the movie, it has driven me to want to discuss every single aspect of it with other Potterheads, something I have not felt like doing in years. It feels great to be back here.


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  #166  
Old November 27th, 2016, 6:47 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

Sooo I watched it last night and left the movie theatre feeling slightly underwhelmed and also really annoyed by
Spoiler: show
Johnny Depp as Grindelwald. In addition to the recent controversies I just think he makes the characters he plays too over the top and Grindelwald from what we know is a charming, good-looking, intelligent fellow, and also someone who actually has remorse for his actions in later years. I'm really afraid Depp will play him as a wacky eccentric cartoon villain and given the situation, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the role to be re-cast for future movies.


This morning I've woken up feeling more excited than I've been in years about the HP franchise and really really excited about where the story seems like it's going to go. With JKR at the helm they really can't mess it up too badly, though after Cursed Child my faith in her is much less absolute.

My mind was blown by
Spoiler: show
the realisation that we've actually been told about the Obscurus before and I'm ridiculously excited to learn more about the Dumbledore family.


I was wondering if the coming movies will continue to be set in the US and I'm really hoping not. No-Maj is slightly unnerving to keep hearing.


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  #167  
Old November 27th, 2016, 7:46 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by witchsmart View Post
It’s been so long since I’ve posted on here I had to remind myself how to use spoiler tags. It’s like I’m a first year again.
I had the exact same experience.

Quote:
I am a bit confused about one point that everyone keeps bringing up:
Spoiler: show
How is Ariana connected to the Obscurus/Obscurial plotline? Granted, it’s been awhile since I read Book 7, but I thought Ariana was a squib and ashamed of by a pureblooded mother. If Obscuruses are created through repressed magic, why would this be the case with Ariana, where I imagine her family would try to encourage any sign that she was magical?
Spoiler: show
Well, I think if others are similar to myself, it's just a matter of the symptoms of a tormented young child in the magical world lashing out and attacking others that immediately rang a bell and brought up Ariana Dumbledore in our minds.

As far as I remember (and yes, it's been a while), the exact nature of Ariana's condition wasn't really known. I believe that she did have some outbursts of unstable magic, which by definition would make her not a squib, wouldn't it?

Unless it's been specifically mentioned, I think an obscurial fits the profile much better.



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Spoiler: show
I had some major problems with this too. Is thinks a blanket oblivious spell, and everyone in New York is just going to wake up with amnesia? Is it just going to wipe their memory of this specific event and, if so, how is it doing that considering it wasn’t cast by an individual? How are the wizards walking through the rain fixing everything without being obliviated themselves without using a magical umbrella like we later see Queenie using? How long do the effects of this venom/obliviate spell last? What about the water that runs to other cities? When it evaporates again? I felt like this was mostly a deus ex plot hole device and wasn’t thought out all that much.
Spoiler: show
Yes. These were my thoughts exactly. And it's out of character from a writer whose books feature startlingly few true plot holes for there to be a major one at the climax of the movie. It's quite disappointing, really, and was completely avoidable by providing some kind of plot device earlier that would make this possible.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
I did wonder about that as well, given that in Europe it seems there is no death penalty, given that mass-murderers are only sent to prison in Azkaban. As for why they were escorted straight from interrogation to the death chamber, I agree with what other said in that it was Grindelwald giving the order (though why those other workers went along with it, one of whom appeared to know Tina, I don’t know). But the existence of the death penalty itself in America I found interesting given that it doesn’t seem to be present in Europe, and I wonder if it is a commentary on the American justice system. As an American, I can definitely see us having a magical death penalty where other nations do not.
Spoiler: show
Well, that's it exactly. Grindelwald did not act independently, and the reaction of the workers there seems to indicate that he was indeed following accepted procedure. Which doesn't really seem well-thought out, and again seems to be, while not a plot hole necessarily, something that tests your mental fortitude to suspend disbelief.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
But can we talk about the style of the death penalty though? That chamber with all the memories of those condemned to it. That they can see presumably the happiest moments of their lives so they are at peace right before they die--I actually found that very interesting. And it’s noteworthy that they weren’t simply AK’d somewhere instead--that the Killing curse is still considered forbidden even for those sentenced to death.
Spoiler: show
It definitely is an elegant way to do it, as we have come to expect from magical solutions to real world problems. And it makes a great deal of sense for the USA to have the death penalty, reflecting the same ethical differences in the magical world as exist in the real world. I figure the USA is far from the only country around the world to have the death penalty, but perhaps the only Western country. Of course, we don't know if the USA's magical government also governs Canada.


Quote:
I will say, even though I had mixed feelings about the movie, it has driven me to want to discuss every single aspect of it with other Potterheads, something I have not felt like doing in years. It feels great to be back here.
Absolutely. When I got out of the movie, I immediately felt the compulsion to discuss it. I told my wife that I had some quibbles with the movie and she said "don't say anything, I don't want you to ruin it." So I did what I always used to do and came on here. I was actually surprised there wasn't a larger-scale revival happening what with entirely new material to discuss, but perhaps it will pick up. We aren't the only ones flocking back to the site, clearly.


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  #168  
Old November 27th, 2016, 8:42 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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This morning I've woken up feeling more excited than I've been in years about the HP franchise and really really excited about where the story seems like it's going to go. With JKR at the helm they really can't mess it up too badly, though after Cursed Child my faith in her is much less absolute.
It's my understanding that JKR was merely a consultant on CC. But she did approve it. . . .


Quote:
I was wondering if the coming movies will continue to be set in the US and I'm really hoping not. No-Maj is slightly unnerving to keep hearing.
Paris is the location of 2d film.


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  #169  
Old November 27th, 2016, 5:55 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

There's another thing I found noteworthy about this newest addition to the Potter world. A bit of a departure from something I found was a key component of the books.

Spoiler: show
In the books, as silly as it may be to think about, the story and the world were crafted such that there is technically no proof that the books are fiction. It's written so that, technically, you can choose to believe that the story does actually take place in our world, up to a point (I mean, the locations may not all exist such as Privet Dr., but it's easy to ignore that or assume that names were changed). There are no major Muggle characters who would be well known in our world. The Muggle Prime Minister remains anonymous, I would assume intentioinally.

In this movie, characters such as Shaw, the senator for New York, and his father, a media mogul, would absolutely be well-known in the real world, and the events in this installment of the series would have been documented in real-world history. We know for a fact that a New York senator was not mysteriously killed around this time period (unless he was, in which case I learn something new). So that kind of kills one particular kind of mystique that existed in the series up until now.


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  #170  
Old November 28th, 2016, 4:00 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

Don't forget about the Brockdale Bridge being snapped in HBP! I always reasoned that wizards just made muggles forget there ever was a Brockdale bridge and that's why we think it's fictional.

I apply that logic to this movie just the same.


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  #171  
Old November 28th, 2016, 5:19 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Don't forget about the Brockdale Bridge being snapped in HBP! I always reasoned that wizards just made muggles forget there ever was a Brockdale bridge and that's why we think it's fictional.

I apply that logic to this movie just the same.
That's true, I suppose. But I could always attribute that to a name change, too. I'm sure there was a bridge that collapsed somewhere around the country at that time. Maybe?


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  #172  
Old November 28th, 2016, 6:12 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

I have just reread the book and there is one spoiler for future films. It says Newt Scamander is
Spoiler: show
now retired and living in Dorset with his wife Porpentina. So sadly no more shipping wars.


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  #173  
Old November 28th, 2016, 5:34 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath View Post
Don't forget about the Brockdale Bridge being snapped in HBP! I always reasoned that wizards just made muggles forget there ever was a Brockdale bridge and that's why we think it's fictional.

I apply that logic to this movie just the same.
Spoiler: show
But a newspaper magnate and U.S. senator seems a bit more to cover up. Not that it isn't possible, given the extensive Obliviation we see at the end of the film. But even President Picquery said "We cannot Obliviate an entire city," indicating it at least was not possible (or conceivable) to erase an entire city's memory prior to Newt's ingenuity. And a large New York newspaper and U.S. senator would require Obliviation at an international scale. But if large-scale Obliviation is how to rationalize the wizarding world's existence within our 'real' world, it indicates how much more meddlesome wizards are in Muggle affairs.


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  #174  
Old November 28th, 2016, 7:11 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
It's my understanding that JKR was merely a consultant on CC. But she did approve it. . . .
I know, I know but I maintain that there are certain things in CC that she absolutely should have not allowed.



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Paris is the location of 2d film.
SO happy to hear that, thank you!


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  #175  
Old November 28th, 2016, 7:32 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

I loved it! I really really loved it, the characters, the screen play, the fantastic beasts obviously and the fact generally there's more to get my teeth into


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  #176  
Old November 29th, 2016, 3:03 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Spoiler: show
In the books, as silly as it may be to think about, the story and the world were crafted such that there is technically no proof that the books are fiction. It's written so that, technically, you can choose to believe that the story does actually take place in our world, up to a point (I mean, the locations may not all exist such as Privet Dr., but it's easy to ignore that or assume that names were changed). There are no major Muggle characters who would be well known in our world. The Muggle Prime Minister remains anonymous, I would assume intentioinally.

In this movie, characters such as Shaw, the senator for New York, and his father, a media mogul, would absolutely be well-known in the real world, and the events in this installment of the series would have been documented in real-world history. We know for a fact that a New York senator was not mysteriously killed around this time period (unless he was, in which case I learn something new). So that kind of kills one particular kind of mystique that existed in the series up until now.
Spoiler: show
Unless that magic mind-wiping rain worked as well as the movie it did. Presumably it would have erased all record of Shawís mysterious death as well (though I donít remember the spellís ability to change written records from the books). A quick, entirely un-thorough Google search tells me there was a Senator Henry Shaw of Massachusetts, but not of New York, and not of the same time period. So who knows, if we follow the logic of the movie, it could still have ďhappenedĒ in real life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
Spoiler: show
But a newspaper magnate and U.S. senator seems a bit more to cover up. Not that it isn't possible, given the extensive Obliviation we see at the end of the film. But even President Picquery said "We cannot Obliviate an entire city," indicating it at least was not possible (or conceivable) to erase an entire city's memory prior to Newt's ingenuity. And a large New York newspaper and U.S. senator would require Obliviation at an international scale. But if large-scale Obliviation is how to rationalize the wizarding world's existence within our 'real' world, it indicates how much more meddlesome wizards are in Muggle affairs.
Spoiler: show
Thatís a fair point. I wonder if itís something that will come up in future movies--i.e. someone who escaped the mind-wiping and still retains memory of the mysterious incidents surrounding the death of a New York senator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
I have just reread the book and there is one spoiler for future films. It says Newt Scamander is
Spoiler: show
now retired and living in Dorset with his wife Porpentina. So sadly no more shipping wars.
Spoiler: show
I hope she gets more interesting in the sequels then. As it stands, I didnít think they had a lot of chemistry in this film.


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  #177  
Old November 29th, 2016, 5:24 pm
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by Kanksha View Post
I know, I know but I maintain that there are certain things in CC that she absolutely should have not allowed.
Especially since she has told her readers to consider Cursed Child 'canon' (whatever that means! ) despite not writing it. So it's not like the films, where she gave the filmmakers her blessing but wouldn't tell her fans that they supplement book canon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by witchsmart View Post
Spoiler: show
Unless that magic mind-wiping rain worked as well as the movie it did. Presumably it would have erased all record of Shawís mysterious death as well (though I donít remember the spellís ability to change written records from the books). A quick, entirely un-thorough Google search tells me there was a Senator Henry Shaw of Massachusetts, but not of New York, and not of the same time period. So who knows, if we follow the logic of the movie, it could still have ďhappenedĒ in real life.
Spoiler: show
Well, there is this part in the script (that we see on film):
Fantastic Beasts, Scene 118HIGH ANGLE pushing down toward the crowd as they look up to the sky. As the rain falls and hits them, people move on, docileótheir bad memories washed away. Each person goes about their daily business as though nothing unusual has happened.
[...]
Groups of Aurors continue to repair the streets, swiftly reassembling broken tram tracks, all traces of destruction finally disappearing. One Auror, passing a newsstand, enchants the papers, removing Newtís and Tinaís mug shots and replacing them with banal headlines about the weather.

So not the rain, but wizards were able to change written records. I imagine a MACUSA intern being forced to pour over stacks of No-Maj books/newspapers to check for any missed references to the magical events! But perhaps there's a "find and replace" spell as in Excel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by witchsmart
Spoiler: show
Thatís a fair point. I wonder if itís something that will come up in future movies--i.e. someone who escaped the mind-wiping and still retains memory of the mysterious incidents surrounding the death of a New York senator.
Spoiler: show
I think Jacob is an interesting case, that his memory was seemingly wiped clean by the rain, but he still has a latent memory of the events and "a flicker of memory" upon seeing Queenie. It shows that the true memory is still there, at least in Jacob's case - much like Crouch's Memory Charm on Bertha Jorkins that Voldemort/Pettigrew was able to break with torture, showing the true memory is still retained. Jacob's a Muggle, too, showing that his intimacy with the events may be what creates some resistance to the Memory Charm. So perhaps Henry Shaw Sr., for instance, would be more apt to remember the events than someone who just read the headline of Senator Shaw's mysterious death.


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  #178  
Old November 30th, 2016, 9:40 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

Spoiler: show
What were those blue lightnings that Gravesdelwald was shooting at Newt in the final fight? Was is supposed to be Crucio?


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  #179  
Old December 1st, 2016, 1:37 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
Spoiler: show

So not the rain, but wizards were able to change written records. I imagine a MACUSA intern being forced to pour over stacks of No-Maj books/newspapers to check for any missed references to the magical events! But perhaps there's a "find and replace" spell as in Excel.
Spoiler: show
Ah, gotcha. That is a nice touch. I did enjoy that scene, despite the improbability of the rain, because it exhibited the more Ďgracefulí (for lack of a better term) magical abilities of wizards. Itís soothing to watch the buildings magically repair themselves, even if itís just reverse CGI.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
I think Jacob is an interesting case, that his memory was seemingly wiped clean by the rain, but he still has a latent memory of the events and "a flicker of memory" upon seeing Queenie. It shows that the true memory is still there, at least in Jacob's case - much like Crouch's Memory Charm on Bertha Jorkins that Voldemort/Pettigrew was able to break with torture, showing the true memory is still retained. Jacob's a Muggle, too, showing that his intimacy with the events may be what creates some resistance to the Memory Charm. So perhaps Henry Shaw Sr., for instance, would be more apt to remember the events than someone who just read the headline of Senator Shaw's mysterious death.
Spoiler: show
I do wonder about the exact Ďrulesí surrounding the memory charm. As in whether memories are removed or merely suppressed, and whether the enchanter has a different influence over it than outside wizards/witches. For example, we know that after the war, Hermione went back and removed the Memory Charm over her parents. Presumably she didnít torture them to do so, as Voldemort did with Bertha. Can only the caster remove the charm with no ill effects? If so, does Newt count as the caster, and could remove the spell on Jacob, or no because of the unusual way the spell was cast?


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  #180  
Old December 1st, 2016, 6:03 am
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Re: NEW PROJECT by JKR: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - The Film

I loved the movie. Great in every respect. The audience I viewed it with felt the same. Gave it a standing ovation. Was great seeing the HP world on screen again!


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