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Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4



 
 
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  #41  
Old November 28th, 2007, 10:47 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
I agree; when you think about it, Sirius (and James) were terribly young when they spent three years diligently working to become animagi. Sirius also spent 21 years defying his family. These things are quickly written, but if one stops to consider just what these types of things entail, character wise, it is really quite incredible.
It's actually quite amazing, but also shows their committment to their friends.
They decided to become an Animagi at 12, in order to help a friend. Three years later they managed it.
They were 15 when they illegally managed a piece of transformation that the Ministry deems too dangerous to allow without registry, and i'm guessing full teachings. Bear in mind they had no outside help with this, the four of them read and taught each other and themselves.

We can dismiss any thoughts of the Marauder's simple being average students with a glint of michief.


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Old December 8th, 2007, 8:55 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

How did the letter that Lily sent to Sirius get to #12G place? I thought he hated it there...it seems odd that his stuff was all there from before Azkaban. I wonder if everything was taken from his other house (the one he bought with his uncle's money) and shipped there when he was sent to Azkaban. Does one lose their real property in the wizard world when they go to prison? I wonder if Remus shipped it rather than allow all of his things to be thrown out. I know he didn't count Sirius as a friend, but he didn't hate him, imo, just seemed disappointed.

Nonetheless, that is a bit of a mystery.


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Old December 9th, 2007, 4:09 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
How did the letter that Lily sent to Sirius get to #12G place? I thought he hated it there...it seems odd that his stuff was all there from before Azkaban. I wonder if everything was taken from his other house (the one he bought with his uncle's money) and shipped there when he was sent to Azkaban. Does one lose their real property in the wizard world when they go to prison? I wonder if Remus shipped it rather than allow all of his things to be thrown out. I know he didn't count Sirius as a friend, but he didn't hate him, imo, just seemed disappointed.

Nonetheless, that is a bit of a mystery.
I have wondered about this as well When Lucius went to Azkaban, Arthur says that the Ministry searched his house for Dark Artifacts (when Harry is trying to convince him that Snape and Malfoy are up to something in HBP), but they didn't take it away- of course, that could have been because Cissa and Draco were still living there, and maybe it was an exception? I don't know what happens to your property when you go to Azkaban.

I think your theory sounds plausible- and since Sirius offers to adopt Harry in PoA, it is possible his house was still standing, but he couldn't go back to it. I would venture a guess that Lupin may have gone over there after they reconciled, or during the time when Sirius was hiding with the Order after GoF. It is also plausible that Lupin or the authorities could have sent the stuff to Number 12 after he went to Azkaban, and the letter ended up there that way.

-LilyPod



Last edited by Isla Sofia; December 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pm.
  #44  
Old December 9th, 2007, 6:53 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
How did the letter that Lily sent to Sirius get to #12G place? I thought he hated it there...it seems odd that his stuff was all there from before Azkaban. I wonder if everything was taken from his other house (the one he bought with his uncle's money) and shipped there when he was sent to Azkaban. Does one lose their real property in the wizard world when they go to prison? I wonder if Remus shipped it rather than allow all of his things to be thrown out. I know he didn't count Sirius as a friend, but he didn't hate him, imo, just seemed disappointed.

Nonetheless, that is a bit of a mystery.
Glad to see this thread is alive again!

I have often wondered this as well. Why would the letter and picture be in Grimmauld Place? He hated it there, and he couldn't have been there before Lily and James died; Walburga was alive and healthy four years after Sirius was put in Azkaban. If the house wasn't demolished, maybe Remus went back to go through his stuff when Sirius moved into Grimmauld Place in 1995? Or maybe the Aurors confiscated his things, and when Kingsley realized Sirius was innocent, he gave that back? There are a lot of reasons why he could have done that.

Btw, I love your signature again Lilypod! I remember after HBP came out, I was obsessing over that picture, to the annoyance of my friends.


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  #45  
Old December 9th, 2007, 7:41 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?

It told a lot about Sirius, and it was a nice contrast to the rest of his family. Where Walburga had her portrait stuck to the wall indefinitely, Sirius had the picture of his friends magically bound to the wall. Walburga's portrait shrieked insults at anyone she deemed unworthy (in other words, she was hugely prejudiced), and to contrast this, Sirius's photo included a werewolf and a blood traitor. The posters of the half-naked Muggle women and the motorcylces solidified his position as a proud blood traitor.

Then there were the Gryffindor hangings to contrast with the Slytherin ones in Regulus's room. Sirius knew he was being gusty, considering his family's views, and he still opposed them, which was in itself quite brave (and very honourable IMO). It was this reckless bravery of his that made him a real Gryffindor in the first place.

And of course, it showed his rebellious side that made him the Marauder he was (and the fandom heart-throb, too, lol).


The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?

Well I'd always imagined them to be close, so it didn't change anything as much as confirm what I'd believed. It made me smile to see that she called him Padfoot. It's great that she got along so well with the Marauders that she wasn't a fifth wheel, but instead she became part of the group.

Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?

By process of elimination, I'd imagine. He knew it wasn't himself, and he knew it wouldn't be James (considering part of the info being leaked had to do with James and Lily in the first place). That left Peter and Remus, and the rest of the Order, but if it was someone really close to them, it'd probably be one of the former two. He figured Remus was much stronger magically and had a ton more guts that Peter did, and so he must have concluded that it wasn't Peter who was, in his mind, not capable of being a Death Eater. And it's possible Peter lead him on to believe it to lay the blame away from himself. I cannot imagine Sirius mistrusted Remus because of the fact that he was a werewolf, considering everything he did in his youth that showed how unprejudiced he was.

Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?

No, he didn't know, but if he had known what Regulus had done, I think he would have come to help him. He was shown to be incredibly loyal (his animagus form says it all) and that quality would probably shine through.

Sirius never had the chance to grow up. Has the character matured at all?

Well he definitely grew up after Hogwarts, fighting in the Order. That would make any teenager mature faster than the usual, and so by the time he was 21, when he was sent to Azkaban, he had a mindset a bit older than that. Then Azkaban stunted his emotional growth and he had trouble moving on, due to being constantly reminded of the past by the Dementors. After escaping, I feel he was still trapped inside the past, which I can't blame him for, due to living in his own personal and physical hell for 12 years. However, when it came to Harry, I feel he did mature more to take on the role of godfather.

How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?

I was still one of those who hoped he'd somehow "come back", because Jo was really dogdy about whether or not he was dead, whereas with Dumbledore she said it flat out. And the mirror, Jo kept telling us it would be important in DH, and it was, but I suspected it would be due to some connection with Sirius, and so that slightly disapointed me.

But seeing him in the Forest Again completely made up for it; he was home again, beside his best friends and alongside his godson, looking happy once again. It was nice to have closure. Oh, and seeing little Sirius in TPT with little James, that was nice, too. It was so reminiscent of how Ron and Harry met on the first day on the train (though the conversation was different), and how Hermione got off on the wrong foot with them (like Lily did with Sirius and James).

Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?

I think he was a perfect godfather. He treated Harry like a human being who deserved to know the truth, yet he still protected him with his life. He loved Harry as if he were his own son, too. What more could one want of a godfather?

Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?

Yes, definitely. Again, Sirius's animagus was a dog, which shows symbolically just how loyal he was. He was ready to die for the cause of the Order, so there's no doubt in my mind that he would be ready to die for one of his best friends.

Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?

Nah, I think he was a true Gryffindor. He had that recklessness needed to be brave, and he definitely was brave. He had the guts to oppose his family, and run away from the house he could not call home. Sirius was too rash and impuslive to be in Slytherin, too. He seemed to do things without thinking them through, which is a trait he shared with Harry. He was definitely intelligent, so he could have been in Ravenclaw, but it didn't seem to be something he prized so much as bravery. He was definitely hardworking, though, considering how long he worked to become an animagus for Remus, so he could have fit in Hufflepuff as well. Again, however, I feel he prized bravery above everything else, so he did fit into Gryffindor.

What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?

The fact that Snape was "up to his eyes in the Dark Arts". Sirius already had a personal and rather passionate hate for the Dark Arts because of his family, and so he would have placed Snape on the same level as his family. I suppose it just got pushed even further due to teenage rivalry.

Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?

I'd imagine Remus would be his main source of comfort. We saw Remus was with him when Harry went to talk to Sirius, and Harry's present was from both Remus and Sirius. So he was around enough to keep Sirius's spirits up a bit. I mean, they had one been a part of a group of four incredibly close friends, and just being together again would bring back enough good memories to keep Sirius from going mad inside Grimmauld Place. I guess Tonks might have been a source of comfort too, considering they were both from the same family and yet were both cast away from said family; also Tonks just had that uplifting spirit.

I still feel it was quite unfair of Dumbledore to keep Sirius locked up in that place, considering it was a solid reminder of what Sirius hated the most and what he wished to not be a part of. I know it was for Sirius's own good to not be seen in public, but they could have found some way of letting him have a bit of freedom - perhaps just borrowing Moody's cloak for a bit to go outside, or give him some Polyjuice Potion for an hour of freedom. They had magic, they could have figured something out.


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  #46  
Old December 9th, 2007, 7:57 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy
How did the letter that Lily sent to Sirius get to #12G place? I thought he hated it there...it seems odd that his stuff was all there from before Azkaban. I wonder if everything was taken from his other house (the one he bought with his uncle's money) and shipped there when he was sent to Azkaban. Does one lose their real property in the wizard world when they go to prison? I wonder if Remus shipped it rather than allow all of his things to be thrown out. I know he didn't count Sirius as a friend, but he didn't hate him, imo, just seemed disappointed.

Nonetheless, that is a bit of a mystery.
Moony might've transferred Sirius' possessions at his parents' after Dumbledore appointed Grimmauld Place as headquarters. Or Sirius may have done it himself. But I'm curious as to why you think Moony didn't count Sirius as a friend I got the impression that they were very close, perhaps not as close as Sirius was with James Potter, but very good friends and confidants.


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  #47  
Old December 9th, 2007, 8:14 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by PotionA View Post
Moony might've transferred Sirius' possessions at his parents' after Dumbledore appointed Grimmauld Place as headquarters. Or Sirius may have done it himself. But I'm curious as to why you think Moony didn't count Sirius as a friend I got the impression that they were very close, perhaps not as close as Sirius was with James Potter, but very good friends and confidants.
They were best buddies and confidants, I agree. Possibly even as close as Sirius and James had been before.

I was talking about right after the Potters were killed. Like the next day or so if they took Sirius' property away from him. If his things were in the house that he'd bought with his uncle's money, the ministry may have taken it away from Sirius. At that time, Remus didn't count Sirius as a friend (he thought he'd betrayed James and Lily). But based on Remus' personality, I don't think he'd hate Sirius even then, and thought he wouldn't count him as a "friend" per se, and be very disappointed in him and even rancorous, he might go and save his stuff anyway if they were going to toss it out. (At that point he may have still been struggling with the whole idea that Sirius could have really done it, although he'd been suspecting him of it). Remus seemed very shaken up when speaking of Black prior to meeting up with him in the shack; not so much angry or hating him, but disappointed and deeply troubled. They'd been very close and Remus likely felt betrayed himself. And yet he and Sirius never discussed any thing about what had happened and if Remus was anything as an adult, it was fair-minded. So I think he was very confused on the issue of Sirius before they met up again in POA. Nonetheless, I think he would have rescued Sirius' stuff if they were going to just dispose of it (the day after the Potter's died).


But I think the stuff just sat in the house and the Ministry didn't take it away at all. That makes more sense. Then when Sirius escaped Azkaban and he and Remus were best buddies again, Lupin could have gone to the house and moved whatever Sirius wanted out...that is a good idea whoever had it above.


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  #48  
Old December 9th, 2007, 9:00 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

1. In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?

He's a natural born rebel. Poor Sirius, he makes his room a little Gryffindor haven out of defiance against his Slytherin family.


2. The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?


No. I already perceived James, Lily and Sirius as being extremely close: Lily seemed to totally accept Sirius as James's best friend.


3. Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?


Probably. I have to say, this is a part of the plot I am less familiar with ... I think I will have to reread some of the books!

4. Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?

I have no doubt that Sirius would have helped Regulus had he known. What a pity he didn't.

5. Sirius never had the chance to grow up. Has the character matured at all?

No, I don't think he has matured much, if indeed at all, and the reason for this is because he is so emotionally damaged by the catastrophic events of 31 October, 1981 and the fact that he endured an unjust prison sentence for a crime he didn't commit: a crime, what's more, that a former friend framed him for.

6. How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?

DH didn't throw much more light on the character of Sirius for me, it confirmed what I already thought of him. I see him as a darkly passionate and courageous man, fiercely loyal to those he loves, who can become sullen and moody when thwarted. A man of great promise whose life is blighted by the murders of his best friend and his wife, the loss of his godson and the years he suffers in Azkaban.

I love the Resurrection Stone scene in which Harry meets his 'family of shadows' (as one of my friends called them) and we see Sirius in the form of his younger self ... at peace.

7. Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?

Sirius loves Harry: there is no doubt of that. But he is not a very good godfather, when all is said and done. Harry has the maturity to admit this, as much as he loves Sirius, in DH: he has to admit that it might be that he ends up being as reckless a godfather to Teddy Lupin as Sirius was to him.

I honestly think that Sirius would have been a wonderful godfather if James and Lily had lived. He does his best, but he's damaged. Maybe if he himself had survived beyond OotP, he would have been able to exorcise his inner demons and grow up to be a mature and reliable person. But Sirius is so damaged. His attitude to Harry in OotP is immature: he sulks at Harry when Harry refuses to do something dangerous, employing emotional blackmail by telling Harry sullenly that he is not so much like his father after all, that James would have enjoyed the risk. This is totally unreasonable pressure to put on a 15 year old boy: of course it's Sirius who sounds like a 15 year old. This to me was a sign of how stunted and how stuck in the past he is.

8. Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?

I guess so. He's a brave and loyal man.

9. Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?

I find that very plausible. He was totally determined not to be sorted into Slytherin! After all, Harry did virtually the same thing. And I think there is a lot of Slytherin in Sirius, which he would have been well aware of. Which increases his resistance to Slytherin and all that would/might have entailed.


10. What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?


Sirius already had an antipathy to Slytherin because of his estrangement from his pureblood, traditionally Slytherin family. His initial hostility to Snape is born out of this. Sirius is very unforgiving towards Severus, IMO: we see the darkest side of his character coming out here. There is a cruel streak in him, and it's not eliminated by his being sorted into Gryffindor: this cruelty in Sirius is, I believe, the side that would have got him into Slytherin had he not so forcibly resisted. If Sirius had chosen the Dark Path - he makes a very deliberate decision not to, of course - he would have made a formidable Death Eater, IMO: passionate and committed to the cause.

11. Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?

I hope he got more support from them than Molly Weasley's extraordinarily insensitive remark in OotP would seem to indicate: she comments tartly that he's been locked up in Azkaban for 12 years so of course hasn't been able to be much of a godfather to Harry. I am just astounded by Molly's remark here, frankly. Does she think that Sirius wanted to be framed for the murders of James and Lily??

I do believe that Remus would very likely have been very supportive. He would have understood Sirius very well, including his darker moods.

And yes, it is pretty obvious to me that Sirius in OotP is deeply depressed, which explains a lot of his behaviour.

To summarise:

Sirius is one of the most fascinating and tragic characters in the saga. I find him almost as tragic as Severus, if not equally so. So much that could have been is destroyed on the night of James and Lily's murders: that to me sums up the story of Sirius. His life is totally blighted. He is a person whose great potential was cut off in its prime. At least he had his love for Harry: that is one of the very few things left to him.


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  #49  
Old December 9th, 2007, 9:26 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by LilyDreamsOn View Post
Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?

Nah, I think he was a true Gryffindor. He had that recklessness needed to be brave, and he definitely was brave. He had the guts to oppose his family, and run away from the house he could not call home. Sirius was too rash and impuslive to be in Slytherin, too. He seemed to do things without thinking them through, which is a trait he shared with Harry. He was definitely intelligent, so he could have been in Ravenclaw, but it didn't seem to be something he prized so much as bravery. He was definitely hardworking, though, considering how long he worked to become an animagus for Remus, so he could have fit in Hufflepuff as well. Again, however, I feel he prized bravery above everything else, so he did fit into Gryffindor.
Great analyisis overall Ali! I like reading it.

I did like this point in particular about Sirius- and I would agree that his overall persona was one of Gryffindor stock more than anything else. You are right that his brash, reckless nature is indicative that he would not fit in with the calculating, sly Slytherins, and while he was intelligent, I don't think he necessarily valued wisdom on it's own merits, or for the sake of being enlightened, as, say, Luna does. And while his loyalty was fierce, and he was willing to work hard when he wanted to, I can't say I see him with the Hufflepuffs, who, IMO, are generally very good-natured and even-tempered (As opposed to Sirius, whom Jo has even described as "dangerous").

I see Sirius as a definite Gryffindor to the core, and I think he valued bravery and was very daring, adventurous, and reckless. We know that he and James were very mischievious and resourceful, but that they were also adreneline junkies who took risks and lived life to the fullest in their youth. When they grew up, they lived their four years after school fighting for others and for their own morals beliefs and convictions. Both were purebloods, and both could have sat by and kept themselves safe, but they chose to fight because they had moral courage.

True Gryffindors, IMO.

-LilyPod


  #50  
Old December 9th, 2007, 11:17 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

Here is what JK Rowling had to say about Sirius in response to a question about loyalty:
JK Rowling interview - July 17, 2005
Melissa Anelli: There are a lot of intense loyalty and bravery issues that are really tied to self-sacrifice - specifically in Book 3, "You should have died rather than betray your friends." And then, there's a ton of that throughout. That's a pretty intense message to pass to, say, an eight-year-old, or a ten-year-old, who is reading the book, saying we should die for our friends.

JK Rowling: Obviously I imagine it in the context of a very highly charged situation. God forbid - I hope that in the general run of things, an eight-year-old would not be required to die for anyone, but we're talking here about a fully grown man who was in, what I consider to be, a war situation. This was a full-fledged war situation. I think the question really is do you, as readers, believe that Sirius would have died? Because Sirius is saying that.

Emerson S: Oh, absolutely.
MA: Yeah.

JKR: Right, well, that's what I believed. Sirius would have done it. He, with all his faults and flaws, he has this profound sense of honor, ultimately, and he would rather have died honorably, as he would see it, than live with the dishonor and shame of knowing that he sent those three people to their deaths, those three people that he loved beyond any others, because like Harry he is a displaced person without family.
You're right, it is an intense message, but I am ultimately writing about evil,
This conversation refers to Sirius telling Peter Pettigrew that he should have died rather than betray his friends in PoA.

How do you think Sirius felt about his role in the Secret Keeper switch?


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Old December 9th, 2007, 11:33 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by SusanBones View Post
Here is what JK Rowling had to say about Sirius in response to a question about loyalty:
JK Rowling interview - July 17, 2005
Melissa Anelli: There are a lot of intense loyalty and bravery issues that are really tied to self-sacrifice - specifically in Book 3, "You should have died rather than betray your friends." And then, there's a ton of that throughout. That's a pretty intense message to pass to, say, an eight-year-old, or a ten-year-old, who is reading the book, saying we should die for our friends.

JK Rowling: Obviously I imagine it in the context of a very highly charged situation. God forbid - I hope that in the general run of things, an eight-year-old would not be required to die for anyone, but we're talking here about a fully grown man who was in, what I consider to be, a war situation. This was a full-fledged war situation. I think the question really is do you, as readers, believe that Sirius would have died? Because Sirius is saying that.

Emerson S: Oh, absolutely.
MA: Yeah.

JKR: Right, well, that's what I believed. Sirius would have done it. He, with all his faults and flaws, he has this profound sense of honor, ultimately, and he would rather have died honorably, as he would see it, than live with the dishonor and shame of knowing that he sent those three people to their deaths, those three people that he loved beyond any others, because like Harry he is a displaced person without family.
You're right, it is an intense message, but I am ultimately writing about evil, …
This conversation refers to Sirius telling Peter Pettigrew that he should have died rather than betray his friends in PoA.

How do you think Sirius felt about his role in the Secret Keeper switch?
Oh, gosh, I had forgotten about that interview It's so tragic- Sirius really did love Lily, James, and Harry more than anyone else in his life, and to lose them and be separated from Harry must have been so incredibly devastating.

I think Sirius, just as Jo describes, felt a great sense of honor in the Secret Keeper swap, because he felt he was doing the best he could do to keep those that he loved, and was willing to die for, safe. He even told Peter in the Shack that the bluff was to make sure the Dark Lord came after him instead, and left Peter alone. He willingly put himself on the line for his friends, without a second thought. He was certainly willing to die for the Potters, and his courage, honor, and chivalry is truly amazing.
It's too bad Peter didn't have the same mindset.

-LilyPod


  #52  
Old December 10th, 2007, 4:48 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

I agree with JKR. I don't find Sirius' willingness to die out of the ordinary at all. I would certainly do the same in his shoes for those I love, including my tightest mates. I firmly agree Sirius would have done it, Remus too - and others in the series besides. Sirius said that some things are worth dying for and while I don't think that list was tremendously long, in a way it was very grandiose because it included dying for all of humanity if that is what it took. Like many of the Order members (and others besides), imo, Sirius had no qualms about facing death if the purpose was something he believed in.


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Old December 10th, 2007, 10:56 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by LilyDreamsOn View Post
Nah, I think he was a true Gryffindor. He had that recklessness needed to be brave, and he definitely was brave. He had the guts to oppose his family, and run away from the house he could not call home. Sirius was too rash and impuslive to be in Slytherin, too. He seemed to do things without thinking them through, which is a trait he shared with Harry. He was definitely intelligent, so he could have been in Ravenclaw, but it didn't seem to be something he prized so much as bravery. He was definitely hardworking, though, considering how long he worked to become an animagus for Remus, so he could have fit in Hufflepuff as well. Again, however, I feel he prized bravery above everything else, so he did fit into Gryffindor
I couldn't agree more and to add, even though he came from a line of Slytherin I think his Gryffindor qualities outweighed his blood and the sorting hat would have picked up on this. I like to think that Sirius was one of those that the Sorting Hat didn't even need much time to decide where to put him.

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Originally Posted by LilyPod View Post
Sirius really did love Lily, James, and Harry more than anyone else in his life, and to lose them and be separated from Harry must have been so incredibly devastating.
Especially when he blamed himself for The Potters' deaths . I think the fact that he knew Harry was alive and in the hands of Dumbledore on top of the fact that he was innocent of being a DE was the only thing that kept him sane in Azakaban.

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Originally Posted by LilyPod View Post
He even told Peter in the Shack that the bluff was to make sure the Dark Lord came after him instead, and left Peter alone. He willingly put himself on the line for his friends, without a second thought. He was certainly willing to die for the Potters, and his courage, honor, and chivalry is truly amazing.
This is beautiful



Last edited by LoveWeasleys; December 10th, 2007 at 11:01 pm.
  #54  
Old December 10th, 2007, 11:40 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 View Post
I couldn't agree more and to add, even though he came from a line of Slytherin I think his Gryffindor qualities outweighed his blood and the sorting hat would have picked up on this. I like to think that Sirius was one of those that the Sorting Hat didn't even need much time to decide where to put him.
Oh, definitely. Also, Sirius put his friends before himself, whereas the Slytherin mentality is to do anything to achieve your own goals (i.e., putting yourself first). He was willing to die for people he didn't even know, let alone his best friends. Like you said, his birth family did not define him at all; instead, his real family - his friends - did show what he truly valued.


Quote:
Especially when he blamed himself for The Potters' deaths .
That part always gets to me in PoA.

The Servant of Lord Voldemort'Harry... I as good as killed them,' he croaked. 'I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me ... I'm to blame, I know it ... the night they died, I'd arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he'd gone. Yet there was no sign of a struggle. It didn't feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents' house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies - I realised what Peter must have done. What I'd done.'

His voice broke. He turned away.


Gosh, imagine finding your brother and his wife dead because of something you did...

Quote:
I think the fact that he knew Harry was alive and in the hands of Dumbledore on top of the fact that he was innocent of being a DE was the only thing that kept him sane in Azakaban.
And yet it must have killed him to know that Harry thought him a murderer and a traitor... I doubt he cared much about what everyone else thought, but I think it would have meant the world to him to have Harry know the truth.


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  #55  
Old December 11th, 2007, 12:10 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by LilyDreamsOn View Post
And yet it must have killed him to know that Harry thought him a murderer and a traitor... I doubt he cared much about what everyone else thought, but I think it would have meant the world to him to have Harry know the truth.
One encouraging note in all of it is that Lupin came into the shack, stood and worked out what had really happened in the Potter fiasco, then without further ado, hugged Sirius and let it immediately be known where he stood. I think that being alone for all of that time in Azkaban, Sirius was more appreciative of that than even Remus realized. Sirius did blame himself and I think Remus became quickly aware how important it was that Sirius understand that being mistaken in someone was not to be equated with fault. I believe it was important to Lupin to make it clear when he spoke to Harry that Harry also didn't go away believing that Sirius was anyway at fault. Harry didn't, imo.

So while the whole thing with James and Lily's deaths was very sad for Sirius, I think that he truly appreciated the support that he was later shown by Harry and Remus. I think he finally began to understand and believe that in trying to do the right thing, he was not responsible for those who made poor choices around him.

One cool scene to me is revealing with respect to how much Remus' support and friendship meant to Sirius:

OOTP, The Order of the Phoenix, Brit Ed, pp. 85 - 86

'...and speaking as someone who has Harry's best interests at heart-'

'He's not your son,' said Sirius quietly

'He's as good as,' said Mrs. Weasley fiercely. 'Who else has he got?'

'Hes got me!'

"Yes,' said Mrs. Weasley, her lip curling, 'the thing is, it's been rather difficult for you to look after him while your've been locked up in Azkaban, hasn't it?'

Sirius started to rise from his chair.

"Molly, you're not the only person at this table who cares about Harry,' said Lupin sharply, 'Sirius, sit down.

Mrs. Weasley's lower lip was trembling. Sirius sank slowly back into his chair, his face white.


While Lupin is referring to both himself and Sirius there and leaving Molly deflated, I always saw that scene as Lupin aggresively supporting Sirius. Sirius, heeding Lupin and reseating himself when he was aggravated and likely ready to storm out with a few choice words, totally reminded me of Sirius speaking to James in SWM. Harry believed Sirius was the only person that James would listen to and put the snitch away, and I felt the same thing about Sirius and Lupin after reading the above scene. (There were two more times in that conversation the same thing happen.) That to me speaks of a complete and closer reformation of their friendship and leaves me feeling better about Sirius. Despite all of his troubles and feeling like he was alone in the world, there were actually those about who he was close to because he knew they supported him and loved him. At that point, Lupin like a friend and Harry more like an older son. He also had Tonks and I am sure even Molly felt motherly toward him when she wasn't battling over Harry. Arthur too seemed to show regard for Sirius. So with his very close two people, and all of the others, I think Sirius was able to reach a kind of happy place, despite the things ever nagging him from his past (the Potter's death and Azkaban memories, etc.)


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Last edited by wickedwickedboy; December 11th, 2007 at 12:15 am.
  #56  
Old December 11th, 2007, 12:31 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

I never really understood or agreed with the idea that it was his knowledge of his innocence that bouyed him during his stay in Azkaban. This simply would have cemented my sense of loss and outrage. I cannot imagine how it would have sustained him. As an anti-Dementor, this knowledge and pain would not, I think, have provided a shield against the dementors... they would have affected him deeply, the way that Harry's exposure to Dementors did. Sirius' envolvement with James and Lily was deep and long-lived, and Harry was still a baby when his parents were taken from him. If anything, I think Sirius would have been driven mad earlier than other inmates by the whole situation, and the hopelessness of it. No one believed in his innocence, his best friend was gone, and so was his freedom. I have never thought that his turning himself into a dog and sustaining himself on thoughts of his innocence would have been enough over twelve years to keep him from going mad.


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  #57  
Old December 11th, 2007, 12:57 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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I never really understood or agreed with the idea that it was his knowledge of his innocence that bouyed him during his stay in Azkaban.
He says so himself,
PoA, Chapter 19
"I don't know how I did it," he said slowly. "I think the only reason I never lost my mind is that I knew I was innocent. That wasn't a happy thought, so the dementors couldn't suck it out of me... but it kept me sane and knowing who I am... helped me keep my powers... so when it all became ... too much... I could transform in my cell... become a dog. Dementors can't see, you know...." He swallowed. "They feel their way toward people by feeding off their emotions.... They could tell that my feelings were less -- less human, less complex when I was a dog... but they thought, of course, that I was losing my mind like everyone else in there, so it didn't trouble them. But I was weak, very weak, and I had no hope of driving them away from me without a wand...."

So it seems that his knowing he was innocent kept him sane because the dementors couldn't suck that memory from him and therefor he was able to cling to that.

but in a normal prision I would diffinately agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimagine View Post
This simply would have cemented my sense of loss and outrage. I cannot imagine how it would have sustained him


  #58  
Old December 11th, 2007, 1:19 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

In a normal person, eh? THe only way Sirius could possibly deal with it was to become LESS than human. It was only through his transfiguration that he was able to survive, which makes it remarkable to me that he retained any humanity at all. But Fudge says that Sirius was one of the most heavily guarded prisoners and that he was never really out of their sight, which would suggest that Sirius must have spent most of his time as a dog, and not just the odd moments when he couldn't cope.


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Old December 11th, 2007, 1:24 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by Kimagine View Post
In a normal person, eh?
A normal prison...aka one without Dementors

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Originally Posted by Kimagine View Post
THe only way Sirius could possibly deal with it was to become LESS than human. It was only through his transfiguration that he was able to survive, which makes it remarkable to me that he retained any humanity at all. But Fudge says that Sirius was one of the most heavily guarded prisoners and that he was never really out of their sight, which would suggest that Sirius must have spent most of his time as a dog, and not just the odd moments when he couldn't cope.
Good thing he learned how to become an animagus!


  #60  
Old December 11th, 2007, 2:57 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4

Do you think Sirius felt that he deserved punishment for what happened to Lily and James?


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