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  #121  
Old November 19th, 2003, 2:47 pm
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I didn't think of the fact that Hogwarts is exposed at all with the dementors siding with Voldemort, its a sitting duck.....how many unwilling parents could be leveraged with their kids held to ransom? My guess is that the Patronus will be taught now....the DA have showed that its possible for them to learn it. DD will probably think up some defense alright though


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  #122  
Old November 27th, 2003, 8:57 pm
London_luv89  Female.gif London_luv89 is offline
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Lethifolds....Lethifolds.... ummm.Maybe it means something in greek or latin or something..... or maybe it's an anagram, I was checking it out and it almost looks like Lethal Folds......but I'll check it out....


  #123  
Old November 27th, 2003, 8:59 pm
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Lethal folds is probably where JKR made the name from. (Knocturn Alley - nocturnally; Diagon Alley - diagonally; - it's not new.) I don't think anagrams have anything to do with it.


  #124  
Old May 16th, 2004, 7:55 am
PanzA1370  Male.gif PanzA1370 is offline
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A Brain Drain on the Lethifold-Dementor Connection

Ok. I have been pursuing this theory for a long time before I saw this thread and I have come up with a lot however there are holes I'm hoping u people can fill in. I have read the entire thread so this will kind of be a summary of it. In Fantastic Beasts, there is a beast called the Lethifold. The following are the facts given:

  • "mercifully rare"
  • "found solely in tropical climates"
  • also called the living shroud
  • resembles a black cloak
  • is usually about half an inch thick and thicker after digesting a victim
  • glides along the ground at night
  • is described in the only first hand account as clammy and cold
  • repelled only by the Patronus Charm

We see from this entry various similarities between the Lethifolds and the Dementors. The dementors look like some sort of skeleton wearing a shroud. Is also associated with clamminess and cold. Is also only repelled by the Patronus Charm. The Dementor doesn't seem too fond of daylight.
The two also share differences. We have been tipped off in the book by Harry that the Dementors cannot take heat, while the Lethifold lives exclusively in exotic climates. When repelled by the Patronus Charms, Dementors disappear while Lethifolds are merelt tossed in the air and thrown back followed by a hasty retreat. Lethifolds have no abilities other than their physical smothering attack while the Dementors have their Kiss. Despite the differences however, it is futile to deny that Dementors probably originate from Lethifolds.
So, how do we resolve the origin of the Dementors? Several intelligent suggestions have been made in this thread. Crossbreeding of species involving Lethifolds, Dementors turning wizards into Dementors w/ the Kiss (doesn't explain however the origin of the Dementors) and Lethifolds turning into Dementors when they have devoured a certain amount of people.
When considering these options we must note other things. The Dementors fingers are focused upon a lot. They are described as having the look of having been in water for a long time... Dementors can also fly as evidenced by the movie (so far only trailers but u can tell). Dementors are classified as Beings as they are not included in Fantastic Beasts which does leave us with a very slight chance of them being some form of Spirit, a seperate classification. Also another interesting note is that JKR in Fantastic Beasts, makes a point of saying twice that the Lethifold devours its prey only after it has been successfully suffocated (I could be reading too much into it but it contributes to my theory later).
The following are possibilities I have come up with which I have also rated and attached questions:

Crossbreeding - After being reminded about the comment about the dementors hands and the water and the rotting, I began to search Fantastic Beasts for some kind of water creature that could have some human like qualities, especially fingers. I found such a creature. The Grindylow (remeniscent of Grendel from Beowulf) is a water demon which is aggressive to Muggles and Wizards alike thought Merpeople have been able to domesticate it. It has long powerful fingers. Possible intelligence factor coming from the Merpeople.

Rating (1-5): 2 --> All this accounts for are the water references and not much else. Why can it fly? Why does it disappear when with the Patronus? Why the Kiss?

Lethifold eats wizard - As I noted above, JKR makes a point of mentioning that a Lethifold eats a successfully suffocated prey. What if the Lethifold accidentally devoured a yet alive Wizard. This could have some wierd effect. Maybe in this state the wizard would remain alive and the Lethifold and the wizard would combine or rather engage in some sort of battle in which it assumes Dementor form, where the Wizard, now reduced to a living skeleton, can only keep battling the Lethifold with what repels it, the Happiness of the Patronus Charm. This could be what drives the Dementor to suck happiness from people so that it can fight the Lethifold. Why then does the Dementor simply disappear when hit with the Patronus? I theorize one of two things: 1) When hit, the Lethifold component of the Dementor is damaged, giving the wizard what he wants and maybe providing the wizard with more control after which the Wizard uses Disapperation and disappears. 2) When the Dementor is hit, all of the dementor is damaged, lethifold and wizard because of their "relationship." Caused to flee by this as in the pure Lethifold case, the Dementor makes use of its Wizard's sides best escape trick: Disappearation.
But what about other things like the Dementor's ability to fly when the Lethifold can only glide? What about the Kiss? I theorize that these two powers are simply an effect of the bewildering and amazing combination of the two creatures. The Kiss in particular seems fitting as the Dementor is repelled by the Patronus, an outwards burst of good and happy energy, while the Kiss is a sucking in, a stealing of that good energy. This theory would also explain why the Dementors are not placed in the Beast classification.

Rating: 4 --> This theory accounts for everything except the references to heat and water regarding the Dementors. Otherwise I don't mind saying that this is a **** good theory. It could definitely be improved upon or added on too to help.

***Guys this is the end of my reply (sigh of relief) but I've put soo much energy into this because this is a clear mystery that JKR has left until the last two books, the peak of the series, to explain. The subject of the Dementors is very important and we cannot answer other questions about the Dementors until we come up with a sufficient answer about their origins. Please, if u cant add, just pose questions and I can try to answer. Thanx a lot guys!!!***



Last edited by PanzA1370; May 16th, 2004 at 9:36 am. Reason: Accidentally closed window
  #125  
Old June 9th, 2004, 4:05 am
zeldaman67  Undisclosed.gif zeldaman67 is offline
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I havn't read this entire thread but i have read most of it. Here is my Theory on dementers but i wrote this before I knew about the Lethifold and that idea seriously weakends my argument but I do have some ideas about it which i will add afterwords


Now before i begin I would like to go over what a dementer is. They are soul suckers who feed on happy memories. they are blind and are skeletal almost like spirits. They are used to guard the wizard prizen Askaban. They are not really in our world and are just sort of attracted to happiness and have no real countious mind. They don't seem to be naturaly born and it seems like thier are no male or female dementers, which beings me to the next theory.

Now this is my theory. Out of all the ghosts we have met at hogwarts do any of them seem seriously evil? The bloody barron is a mystery and could perhaps be bloody for another reason (trying to save someones life ect) and peeves is actualy a polterguist.

Also hogwarts is the only place we have actualy seen ghosts and they do seem to be controlled by the ministery to be forced to stay there... now doesn't that sound like the minister controling the dementers in Askaban. Perhaps dementers are just the ghosts of horrible whicked wizards. surly those wizards who have died a death by being tracked down by the ministery or others would want revenge and would not want to leave this world? Perhaps they come back in the form of dementers. And if many of them where voldemort supporters then is it any wonder that they all are in a alliance with him?

Could ghosts be able to defend against dementers.. their appearence in the harry potter books seems to be almost the same of the Patronus.. so perhaps they are one in the same. Could the ghosts be the defenders of hogwarts against the dementers? If Voldemort is controlling the dementers and there a lot of them judging by the ones they sent to hogwarts (which couldn't ahve been that many of them) then maybe the ministry and hogwarts have the ghosts living there in case of a mass dementer outbrake... think of the horror. I'm sure that most wizards can not make a Patronus so they would be defencless of thousands of dementers came down on them...

So thats my theory... tell me what your think

P.S. To add in the Lethifold thing, perhaps the lethifold, which seem a lot more barbaric and simpler are some sort of animal form of a dementer. This would also be strnage because could a animal truly be evil? Well magical animals are a lot more smater then normal ones so perhaps they can be evil if they make their own decitions... Some to think of it doesn't the Chimaera also live in the jungles and forests.. and aren't they very very rare.. and being somewhat part man they can obviosuly make decitions and be evil so maybe Lethifolds are the ghost spirits of dead Chimaera?


  #126  
Old June 9th, 2004, 7:14 am
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I don't know if a ghost would be a defense against a Dementor. Ghosts are said to be in OotP (and forgive me....I have insomnia and I don't have the page number right handy) as a feeble imitation of life. I would think that after the body passes away the spirit or soul whatever you call it, stay behind even after the body has passed on. So I would think that maybe Dementors would be able to eat Ghosts, seeing as ghosts are really nothing more than the spirit of the person.
Now the interesting question here, more so than can Ghosts defend against Dementors, is can Poltergiests defend against Dementors? We haven't really seen why Peeves is allowed to remain at Hogwarts, as he clearly causes quite a bit of mischief, but there has to be a reason. And, while JKR has defined what goes into making a Ghost in the wizarding world, she hasn't explained what goes into making a poltergiest. Peeves has a lot of characteristics that the Ghosts don't really have. He can pick things up and throw them for one. The only Ghost we have seen that can move anything physical is Myrtle, and we've only seen her do that with water (making splashes and such). Peeves also has the ability to have things shoved up his nose, (Waddiwasi spell in PoA), where that same wad of gum would have just passed through a regular ghost. We know ghosts can be petrified, but we don't know if Peeves can. And while Peeves give the students a hard time, most of what he does is pretty funny.
I'm interested to see what role Peeves does play in the overall scheme of things, and if he can be used to fight off a massive Dementor attack.


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  #127  
Old June 9th, 2004, 4:26 pm
mevam  Female.gif mevam is offline
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I wonder if truly evil wizards become Dementors when they die? Same as how other wizards can choose to stay behind as ghosts or move on to the afterlife, but Voldemort would certainly fit the role of a happiness sucking monster well.


  #128  
Old June 9th, 2004, 7:33 pm
LilyEvans  Female.gif LilyEvans is offline
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That's a very interesting theory, I think. Dementors are soulless, correct?

A ghost is merely the choice to walk the path 'where there living selves once trod', but is only a feeble impersonaion of life.

Can Dementors actually FLY? They do in the film, but in the book they merely glide. I find it an interesting point, as they do not seem to fly high, merely glide a few inches above the ground.

If they are an anthropomorphic personification of depression, ghosts, I imagine, would be just as susceptible. They are after all, merely a pale set of memories, recollections, a pale imitation of *** life they once had.

But poltergeists are different. I think they are a Spirit unto themselves. I wonder how they come to be? Maybe a malicious trickster's death?


  #129  
Old June 10th, 2004, 1:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtuousdream
The bits I've highlighted are also Dementor related features. Plus, Harry stated in book 4 he didn't think they could withstand heat, but in book 5 it is a massive heatwave at night the dementors attack, again similar to a lethifold. So it is therefore my theory that a dementor is created when a lethifold has eaten a certain number of victums. The putrid breath and scabby horrible hands sound like a digested victim, and the fact they have human form under their black cloaks.

Like I said, it's probably been mentioned elsewhere but there's other questions about them!

Thoughts?
Hi, a really convincing theory over all, but Im not sure if Harry meant that the can't withstand heat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my memory doesn't fail me Harry thought that the couldn't withstand bright sunshine. Otherwise I quite agree with your theory, it's kind of creepy though...


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  #130  
Old June 21st, 2004, 8:03 am
ThruTheVeil  Male.gif ThruTheVeil is offline
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I don't know if this has been covered or not, but I had written this response to a post that was closed before I replied. So, since I still want to get my opinion out there, I'll post it here instead.

I don't know that Dementors can be killed. I think the more interesting question is how they are created. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the His Dark Materials trilogy, but in that series there are these creatures called Spectres. They are very similar to dementors with the exception that they can only attack adults. These beings are created everytime someone would cut a doorway into another universe. Anyway, before I digress from my point completely, I just think that it is more important to know how dementors are created. If they are the result of some action (such as the cutting of the doorways was in His Dark Materials), their numbers could be limited by trying to decrease or stop that action.


  #131  
Old June 30th, 2004, 8:09 am
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Quick Question about the Dementors....

I searched past threads and could not find the answer to my question... if it's out there, please let me know!

I just finished reading Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them - the dementors are not mentioned and I was just wondering... why?

No three headed dogs either....

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!


  #132  
Old June 30th, 2004, 8:41 am
ardnaxela  Female.gif ardnaxela is offline
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Not that I have any solid information, but I figured that it was because they were human created. Ie. The three headed dog was illegally bred, and the Dementors were created from Lethifolds.

Thats just my view, though, so who knows (other than jkr herself)

Alex


  #133  
Old June 30th, 2004, 8:58 am
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I was think the same when I read that the only defense against a Lethifold is the Patronus.... But it also says that Lethifolds are found only in tropical climates and according the the FAQ on the Publisher's site - Azkaban is In the north of the North Sea... not too tropical there.....

I'm not sure.... unless they are classified as some type of ghost... they should fall under the guidelines of a "beast"


  #134  
Old June 30th, 2004, 10:00 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasia23
I'm not sure.... unless they are classified as some type of ghost... they should fall under the guidelines of a "beast"
Actually, I think Dementors are classified under the "Being" category at the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, because the definition for "Being" as set in 1811 is (translated from Dutch):

A being is a creature with sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to abide by these laws.

So far, Dementors are still abiding by the laws of the Ministry of Magic.


  #135  
Old June 30th, 2004, 10:17 am
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To find out about dementors, try one of these threads.

All about Dementors
Dementors and lost memories
Dementors – can they break the Fidelius Charm?
Neville and the Dementors
Are Dementors male or female?
Reversing the Dementors’ kiss
Ginny, Ron and the Dementors
Fate of the Dementors
Dudley Demented


  #136  
Old June 30th, 2004, 10:27 am
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Uhmm, have fun Anastasia23

I think I'll merge this with "All About Dementors"

*merge*


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  #137  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:05 pm
tarachristwen  Female.gif tarachristwen is offline
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to me, the dementors were rather similar to the ringwraiths in LOTR ...in black flowy robes, creepy, deadly,have dark intentions...etc...i think they can be destoyed,somehow....but dunno how....



Last edited by tarachristwen; December 30th, 2004 at 9:33 am.
  #138  
Old July 11th, 2004, 4:54 am
Greyhounds15  Female.gif Greyhounds15 is offline
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I think dementors originated in Antarctica. Trust me, I am over-obsessive with them. Here's a link to my post explainning this: http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=29667


  #139  
Old July 11th, 2004, 5:09 am
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Why do you think they originated in Antarctica, Greyhounds15?


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  #140  
Old July 11th, 2004, 5:22 am
Greyhounds15  Female.gif Greyhounds15 is offline
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I think they originated in Antarctica because they like cold, dark places the best. They could've liveed in ice caverns. This is just something I thought up, but it seems pretty logical to me.


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