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Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2



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  #141  
Old November 7th, 2007, 12:47 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by Jessica View Post
On a slightly different topic, does anyone besides me think it's possible that he was romantically involved with Doge later in life? Obviously Doge wouldn't be the mental equal that Grindelwald was but it struck me in DH that Doge was treated almost like the widow by the wizarding world. And I like the idea of Dumbledore finding happiness later in life with Doge (and a dog)
In my opinion, I see their relationship as just friends. Although, I think Doge was in love with Dumbledore and not just because of his greatness and brain power but because he admired him (I can see Doge as a Homosexual). But I think Dumbledore, after what happened with Gellert, didn't wanted another broken heart. Maybe DD fancied Elphias but when Gellert appeared, Doge was thrown out of the picture. But as their "relationship" ended so dramatically, I think he become afraid of commitment, of full trustiness.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 1:56 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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I think the fact that Dumbledore did not design Hogwarts rules to allow student to bring dogs to school (when they are explicitely told that they are allowed to bring cats) speaks against this.
Well, he didn't make a case against Ron bringing his old rat to school, even though that wasn't on the list. We can assume that Remus told him after the Shack scene that Ron's rat was an Animagus.

Maybe he had his housekeepe take care of the dog during the week, then he went home on weekends and visited it, telling it all about his latest visit into a room full of chamber pots and who knows what else that he gets up to at school.


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  #143  
Old November 7th, 2007, 11:25 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by Jessica View Post
I think it's likely he had a dog. It would explain his faith in the power of love.
He had a phoenix - they are better than dogs, and you don't have to take them for long walks when it's raining!


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  #144  
Old November 8th, 2007, 12:41 am
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Re: JK Rowling: Revelations Since Deathly Hallows

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I didn't read the article, but I think it is assuming too much to say that Dumbledore's main role should be as a model to the gay community. His biological predisposition should not have a bearing on whether or not he is a good role model. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think that he was ashamed of his sexuality merely because he didn't shout it from the top of the towers. To say that is to assume that, if asked about it, he would deny being gay. That is not the case. The article, from how you tell it, seems to assume that Dumbledore was hiding in the closet, which is a debatable issue that I think was already sufficiently covered in this thread, so I won't go into that again.
I wasn't implying that DD should be a role model to the gay community, I was only saying that he wasn't a good one.

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't mean I wanted Dumbledore to tell everyone he met "Hi my name's Albus, and I'm gay," what I meant was,

Dumbledore was obviously a very famous person. He appeared in the newspapers quite a bit, he was a bit of a wizard celebrity. If Dumbledore had ever looked for a companion it would have gotten out. He obviously didn't, because no one seemed to know about him being gay. The fact that he never tried to look for love,throughout his entire 100+ years implies to me that he was ashamed of his sexuality. Dumbledore didn't seem to me as one to shun love, even if he was heartbroken by his fist "crush".


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  #145  
Old November 8th, 2007, 12:48 am
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Re: JK Rowling: Revelations Since Deathly Hallows

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Dumbledore was obviously a very famous person. He appeared in the newspapers quite a bit, he was a bit of a wizard celebrity. If Dumbledore had ever looked for a companion it would have gotten out. He obviously didn't, because no one seemed to know about him being gay. The fact that he never tried to look for love,throughout his entire 100+ years implies to me that he was ashamed of his sexuality. Dumbledore didn't seem to me as one to shun love, even if he was heartbroken by his fist "crush".
According to JKR, Dumbledore was very isolated. I think he was all his life, actually. He couldn't tell anyone the truth about why his father was in Azkaban or what was wrong with his sister. He was an intelligent man all his life, and he fell in love with Grindelwald because - for the first time - he found an equal. Dumbledore probably didn't fall in love because he never found someone that he could see as an equeal as he did with Grindelwald.


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  #146  
Old November 8th, 2007, 12:54 am
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Re: JK Rowling: Revelations Since Deathly Hallows

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According to JKR, Dumbledore was very isolated. I think he was all his life, actually. He couldn't tell anyone the truth about why his father was in Azkaban or what was wrong with his sister. He was an intelligent man all his life, and he fell in love with Grindelwald because - for the first time - he found an equal. Dumbledore probably didn't fall in love because he never found someone that he could see as an equeal as he did with Grindelwald.
At a young age Dumbledore was isolated, but when he was older he obviously became very famous. As I've said, he was very well known, large numbers of people wanted him to be minster, the Ministry would ask him for advice, all this points to the fact that he was still a prominent public figure. He kept quiet about things from his childhood past, but that would be easy to keep secret because the episode with Grindelwald happened before Dumbledore gained the fame he had today.

Now, I can see the argument with Dumbledore not falling in love because he never found an equal, but it seems that he didn't even try to look, which doesn't seem to fit the character to me.

Also, I'm going to guess that gay people get the same prejudice in the wizarding world as the muggle world, and Dumbledore would have struck me as one to speak out for gay rights as he did for Muggle rights, because he was never one to stand by and let people be mistreated.


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  #147  
Old November 8th, 2007, 1:15 am
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Re: JK Rowling: Revelations Since Deathly Hallows

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Originally Posted by Infinity9999x View Post
Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't mean I wanted Dumbledore to tell everyone he met "Hi my name's Albus, and I'm gay," what I meant was,
I can see how that might be ineffective.

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Originally Posted by Infinity9999x View Post
Now, I can see the argument with Dumbledore not falling in love because he never found an equal, but it seems that he didn't even try to look, which doesn't seem to fit the character to me.

Also, I'm going to guess that gay people get the same prejudice in the wizarding world as the muggle world, and Dumbledore would have struck me as one to speak out for gay rights as he did for Muggle rights, because he was never one to stand by and let people be mistreated.
I think it's understandable that he didn't even try to look because I expect he would know of an equal or almost-equal in his age group. I wouldn't expect him to go for, say, Riddle, as the age gap is way too big.

I completely agree that he seems to be the type who would speak out about gay rights as well if it were an issue in the wizarding world.


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  #148  
Old November 9th, 2007, 3:35 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by Mia_Potter View Post
Finding out Jo had Dumbledore as a gay character doesn't change the character for me in the least and actually I know Jo says it was Grindlewald who DD was in love with and I can see that but upon reading DH I felt Elphias Doge and DD had been a couple while at Hogwarts. Or maybe Doge just had a huge crush on DD and that was what I was seeing. Cause when Doge spoke of DD it felt to me as if he was talking about a life partner not simply a best friend.
That's the first thing that came to my mind. Doge probably had a crush on Dumbledore.

The only thing I can say is...wow. I'm just...shocked. Dumbledore gay? It never crossed my mind, really. It was a complete surprise. It's like after 7 books, there's still so much about the characters that was never mentioned.


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  #149  
Old November 28th, 2007, 6:47 pm
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Re: JK Rowling: Revelations Since Deathly Hallows

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According to JKR, Dumbledore was very isolated. I think he was all his life, actually. He couldn't tell anyone the truth about why his father was in Azkaban or what was wrong with his sister. He was an intelligent man all his life, and he fell in love with Grindelwald because - for the first time - he found an equal. Dumbledore probably didn't fall in love because he never found someone that he could see as an equeal as he did with Grindelwald.
I respect your opinion, but he was over 100 years old. It seems like he would have had some social interaction between the time he was 17 and 100. I don't think that he would necessarily have to find someone who was his equal; just someone whose company he enjoyed perhaps.

I think that one of Dumbledore's defining characteristics was his friendliness - even in the most daunting company. He was very cordial to Voldemort when he came to apply for a job, even though he fully understood what Tom was up to. I would imagine that Dumbledore flourished in Wizard social circles, but it was just off page. He seemed to know everyone and more, know about them. While he had spies over the years in various locations, I would imagine that he verified the information about others for himself, getting to know the people and understanding them. Otherwise, I don't see how he could have a good understanding of human nature - and he seemed to (including many DEs - many of which had been at Hogwarts - but he knew their adult natures as well). That was not just with human wizards, but with Giants, Centaurs, and many other non-human wizards.

I think at times he mis-judged people and situations, but he was on the whole fairly accurate, imo. I was considering whether or not he had spies in Slytherin House during Harry's 5th and 6th years. There were times when stray Slytherins seemed to be hanging about for no apparent reason - at least, unexplained in canon. I recall Flint and Zabini off hand, in strange locales and suspected of being up to no good by Harry, and yet they didn't seem to be doing more than 'hanging around'. As far as I know, Flint's family was not into the DE deal and Blaise's mother, as well as Blaise himself were not DEs (all though all of them were blood purists). I thought perhaps they would have served to apprise Dumbledore of what was going on in that house - because I believe a lot of information got thrown around in there between the students (about their DE parents for those who were with Voldemort; budding DEs and things like Draco's attempts at killing Dumbledore).


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  #150  
Old December 1st, 2007, 2:38 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

I just figured out as of right now that people actually replied to my post. Sorry for the late reply!

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Originally Posted by Infinity9999x View Post
Now, I can see the argument with Dumbledore not falling in love because he never found an equal, but it seems that he didn't even try to look, which doesn't seem to fit the character to me.
Well, it's a matter of interpretation. I don't really know how well known it was that he looked, but I think when Voldemort came into power, he had more things on his mind rather than dating opportunities.

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I respect your opinion, but he was over 100 years old. It seems like he would have had some social interaction between the time he was 17 and 100. I don't think that he would necessarily have to find someone who was his equal; just someone whose company he enjoyed perhaps.
I agree, Dumbledore had around 97 years filled with social interaction. Dumbledore's knowledge of human behavior and nature is what adds to the isolation he had.

ES: I know Dumbledore likes to see the good in people but he seems trusting almost to the point of recklessness sometimes.

[Laughter] Yes, I would agree. I would agree.

ES: How can someone so -

JKR: Intelligent -

ES: be so blind with regard to certain things?

JKR: Well, there is information on that to come, in seven. But I would say that I think it has been demonstrated, particularly in books five and six that immense brainpower does not protect you from emotional mistakes and I think Dumbledore really exemplifies that. In fact, I would tend to think that being very, very intelligent might create some problems and it has done for Dumbledore, because his wisdom has isolated him, and I think you can see that in the books, because where is his equal, where is his confidante, where is his partner? He has none of those things. He’s always the one who gives, he’s always the one who has the insight and has the knowledge. So I think that, while I ask the reader to accept that McGonagall is a very worthy second in command, she is not an equal. You have a slightly circuitous answer, but I can't get much closer than that.


Dumbledore's wisdom and intelligence is what isolated him, according to JKR. That is why I think Dumbledore never found anyone he could actually get close with or fall in love with after Grindelwald deserted him. To be honest, there isn't any character that had the same level of intelligence and wisdom as Dumbledore. Grindelwald was very intelligent (thus Dumbledore saw him as an "equal"), but Dumbledore even admitted he was more skilled than him in DH. Voldemort was very clever, but his arrogance and lack of wisdom often got in the way.

Dumbledore's observance of others is what made it hard for him to actually relate to him, IMO. The dark memories ate him from the inside, I think, and he truly despised himself for his mistakes. I always interpret Dumbledore's loneliness to be the cause of his reluctance to talk about his past experiences with others.


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  #151  
Old December 1st, 2007, 2:56 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

Dumbledore experienced several things when Ariana was killed, in my opinion. I think he had great remorse for his role in her death. The thought that he may have been the one to cast the spell that killed her affected him all his life. I think that this is why he was so understanding of Snape's remorse. He knew what a powerful motivator it was.

I think that Dumbledore experienced shame, too, when he realized he was heading down a path that Grindelwald eventually followed. This feeling of shame is what kept him from seeking a position of power. It also helped him to realize that he could never underestimate the lure of the Dark Arts, in my opinion.

Dumbledore lost someone he loved. He maybe he decided to live life as a single man because he was afraid he would be hurt again, as he must have been hurt when Grindelwald left him. Or maybe he was afraid of the influence that one person has over another when they are in a relationship.


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  #152  
Old December 13th, 2007, 9:54 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Dumbledore lost someone he loved. He maybe he decided to live life as a single man because he was afraid he would be hurt again, as he must have been hurt when Grindelwald left him. Or maybe he was afraid of the influence that one person has over another when they are in a relationship.
I think Dumbledore never got over Grindelwald. He cries for all that he lost and that I think includes GG as well in King's Cross and hopes GG did feel some remorse. While he may have been in realtionships in his long life, I doubt he loved anyone as he did GG. Somehow I feel he did not fall out of love and deeply regretted that GG would not turn to the good side like he did. And GG is not killed by Dumbeldore, only defeated. Perhaps he could not kil him...


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  #153  
Old December 14th, 2007, 9:20 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

There's a new essay over at LiveJounal, that discusses Albus Dumbledore. One interesting aspect about it is that it speculates that he might have had Asperger's Syndrome, which is where it is "characterized by difficulties in social interaction and by restricted and stereotyped interests and activities." (Wikipedia). They also suggest that he wasn't actually Head of Gryffindor House (or a member of that House at all). Instead, they suggest that he was a member of either Ravenclaw (which is what i personally believe) or Slytherin.

Here's the link:
http://community.livejournal.com/hp_...18.html#cutid1


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  #154  
Old December 15th, 2007, 4:02 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by jammi567 View Post
There's a new essay over at LiveJounal, that discusses Albus Dumbledore. One interesting aspect about it is that it speculates that he might have had Asperger's Syndrome, which is where it is "characterized by difficulties in social interaction and by restricted and stereotyped interests and activities." (Wikipedia). They also suggest that he wasn't actually Head of Gryffindor House (or a member of that House at all). Instead, they suggest that he was a member of either Ravenclaw (which is what i personally believe) or Slytherin.

Here's the link:
http://community.livejournal.com/hp_...18.html#cutid1

WOW! What a wonderful link, jammi567!

I have just finished reading the essay and as I wrote there, while I may not agree with a few points, most of the essay was mind blowing. Dumbledore I believe did not have any disease, at least I do not think so for now, but I do believe as I have been saying all along that Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice anyone for the greater good!

He did sacrifice Snape, and without his consent and he sacrificed Moody, George's ear and Hedwig, which was a very wrong thing to do.

I also agreed with one other point in that essay. Why should Harry go back to Privet Drive after all, when he would come back from there in a week's time to the Burrow, when he could have gone to the Burrow right after School.

Also the reasoning behind Dumbledore's thought process that Harry should be in Privet Drive for the protections to hold were not followed once he started Hogwarts.

10 years in a cupboard.

After 1st year - 2 months

After 2nd year - one month and a bit, before Harry was rescued by Ron and the Twins

After 3rd year - One month and a bit before Harry walked out blowing up Marge

After 4th year - Just a few weeks before Harry goes back for the Quidditch World cup

After 5th year - Harry goes to GP after the dementors

6th -year - 2 weeks and Dumbledore takes him away and

7th year - one week!

The protections seem to hold even if Harry would spend as little as two weeks in Privet Drive as he did after 5th year.

That by itself is suspicious and why did not Dumbledore, as he assumed the responsibility of placing Harry with the Dursleys in the first instance, not ckeck up on him in the first 10 years? Why would it be good for Harry not to know he is a wizard and hsi first interaction be only after he came to Hogwarts. Hagrid came because Harry had not sent a letter. Otherwise Hagird would not have come and Harry would have gone to Hogwarts as a muggleborn.

The responsibility of checking up on Harry lay with Dumbledore and I am very afraid, he did not do a good job.


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  #155  
Old December 15th, 2007, 10:15 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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WOW! What a wonderful link, jammi567!
Thankyou. I did quite enjoy it as well. And i did always take Hermione's quote that Dumbledore was "supposed" to have been in Gryffindor with a pinch of salt (once i was old enough, of course). I mean, that's not exactly the stongest of evidence, is it.

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The responsibility of checking up on Harry lay with Dumbledore and I am very afraid, he did not do a good job.
Ahhh, but that would have meant that he would have had to have taken personal responsibility, and he simply couldn't be bothered with that (which makes you wonder why he took the job of Deputy Headmaster, and got the positions of Grand Sorc., Chief Warlock, and Supreame Mugwump).


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  #156  
Old December 15th, 2007, 3:08 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

I think Dumbledore didn't check on Harry largely because it was vital to Harry's safety to separate him from the wizarding world so the DEs couldn't find him. The "greater good" again! His priority was to keep Harry alive rather than happy.


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  #157  
Old December 15th, 2007, 4:13 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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I think Dumbledore didn't check on Harry largely because it was vital to Harry's safety to separate him from the wizarding world so the DEs couldn't find him. The "greater good" again! His priority was to keep Harry alive rather than happy.
Well considering the fact Harry was safe even after he stayed in Privet Drive for only 2 weeks after OOTP, I think, Dumbledore may have made a mistake.

I think Harry's person was actually protected by Lily's sacrifice, where ever he stays, and after fouth year, with Lily's blood that was meant for Harry's protection against Voldemort was running in Voldemort's body; a fact Dumbledore understood the moment he heard of it -- because he gleams in triumph; (at least after many months of thinking about it and reading many, many posts here, that is what I understood) Dumbledore most likely knew that the protection that would always work against Voldemort was now running in his body.

But Harry is made to stay in nPrivet Drive even after fourth year and had Harry avoided Privet Drive for that one week after 6th year, it may have saved Moody and Hedwig. IMO.

So Harry I think, never needed to stay in Privet Drive and suffer, not after 4th year anyway.


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  #158  
Old December 15th, 2007, 4:33 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Well considering the fact Harry was safe even after he stayed in Privet Drive for only 2 weeks after OOTP, I think, Dumbledore may have made a mistake.

I think Harry's person was actually protected by Lily's sacrifice, where ever he stays, and after fouth year, with Lily's blood that was meant for Harry's protection against Voldemort was running in Voldemort's body; a fact Dumbledore understood the moment he heard of it -- because he gleams in triumph; (at least after many months of thinking about it and reading many, many posts here, that is what I understood) Dumbledore most likely knew that the protection that would always work against Voldemort was now running in his body.

But Harry is made to stay in nPrivet Drive even after fourth year and had Harry avoided Privet Drive for that one week after 6th year, it may have saved Moody and Hedwig. IMO.

So Harry I think, never needed to stay in Privet Drive and suffer, not after 4th year anyway.
Actually, I think it offered double protection. Dumbledore himself had inacted magic on Privet Drive. So Voldemort could not approach the house at all. If Harry had stayed at another place, Voldemort could attack Harry - although due to the blood exchange, he could not likely kill him. But I don't think Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to try to attack Harry at all at that time, that is why he made him remain at Privet drive until he was an adult.


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  #159  
Old December 16th, 2007, 10:58 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

During Harry's first 10 years at Privet Drive, Voldemort wasn't around so I think Dumbledore's charm was to keep any DEs away if they heard where the "boy who lived" was living. It was important that Harry should grow up unknown to the wizarding world to keep him safe. Once Voldemort was back, Lily's sacrificial charm kicked in, but that only protected him from Voldemort. That's how I see it anyway.

Harry had to go back to Privet Drive briefly each summer to keep Dumbledore's charm working, which is why he returns every year. He has to be able to call the Dursley's house "home" and that's achieved by going there. That worked until he was 17 so he needed to go back that last time as he was still 16 and Volkdemort was after him.


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Old December 28th, 2007, 5:56 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

I've been rereading the series and I've been thinking about Dumbledore's revelation in OotP. I think Sirius' death is what pushed him to become colder and more manipulative in the events that followed. It hit him hard that if he had only told Harry about the prophecy Harry would have known better than to go after Sirius and think Sirius was in danger. He put Harry's happiness above defeating Voldemort and I think he takes a giant step back from that afterwards.

In HBP he's working behind the scenes to ensure that Harry will have the tools he needs to defeat Voldemort and that Harry will be given them when he needs them but not before. I think he's really forcing himself to do what has to be done. What is right rather than what is easy.


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