Could Neville have joined the trio on the Horcrux hunt?

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

Harry's continued survival was due to Voldemort being too egotistical to let any of his other DEs do it for him. If ANYONE other than Voldemort killed Harry, he'd be dead. Even with the "double blood protection" (which only works on Voldemort to begin with) he's still as killable as anyone else.

Not killable by Voldemort, though, and no one seemed willing to cross Voldy's wish to kill Harry himself. That was helpful to Harry's surviving up to that point. But yes, he could have been killed by anyone/anything else. But I still don't think that was a good reason to widen the circle to include Neville.

[ShadowSonic]

But wasn't it just as risky keeping it to just himself and two other people, both of whom were always with him? If something and all three of them were neutralized (even without being killed) then that's it, the only ones who knew about Horcrux are down and no one else is able to take up the quest.

I understand that it had to be them for storytelling reasons. So maybe this is just a "Just accept the story had to be this way" type thing.

[Quickquill]

Also, Neville only came into his own as a leader when Harry, Ron and Hermione were absent. His taking over leadership of Dumbledore's Army after they left finally showed why he was in Gryffindor and not Hufflepuff.

[HRW]

Originally Posted by BrianTung

What's more, I think that there were good storytelling reasons for Rowling to keep Neville from joining. It would have blunted the impact of Ron's desertion considerably, for instance, if Neville were around. Three people is just about right for interesting conflict.

I am not sure about that. The reason why there was a huge impact when Ron left was because he was he heart and soul of the trio and both Harry and Hermione needed him. Neville did not know Harry and Hermione well and was not used to the internal conflicts. Harry and Hermione despite being best friends for seven years did not know how to deal with each other when Ron was not around and I doubt Neville could have accomplished that in matter of months.

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

But wasn't it just as risky keeping it to just himself and two other people, both of whom were always with him? If something and all three of them were neutralized (even without being killed) then that's it, the only ones who knew about Horcrux are down and no one else is able to take up the quest.

That's not true is it? Had the trio been killed or neutralized, Snape would most certainly have known about that and he in turn would have told Dumbledore's portrait. Dumbledore's portrait could have passed on the knowledge o the horcruxes to whoever he saw fit. So it wasn't a complete case of putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Ripper]

I think that one of the reasons Harry didn't think of enlisting Neville's help is simply because he wouldn't want to endanger another person other than those suggested by Dumbledore. It was one of his 'faults' that is mentioned several times and is used by LV against him to lure him from Hogwarts in the final battle.

Harry could have chosen several DA members for their significant talents but chose to stick with his two closest friends. I know it sounds a little contradictory to say he wants to protect people yet he brings the two people closest to him in the world but I agree with previous poster's who say he followed Dumbledore's advice.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

But wasn't it just as risky keeping it to just himself and two other people, both of whom were always with him? If something and all three of them were neutralized (even without being killed) then that's it, the only ones who knew about Horcrux are down and no one else is able to take up the quest.

I understand that it had to be them for storytelling reasons. So maybe this is just a "Just accept the story had to be this way" type thing.

Look at it this way....a lot of things could have happened or not during the course of the series. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it will ever happen, even over a lifetime. Yes, Harry was vulnerable to dying some other way (as everyone was) but he didn't. I don't see how adding Neville to the group from the beginning of DH would have made things more secure regarding destruction of the horcruxes. If as you suggest 3 of them could be "neutralized" and taken out of the picture, it's just as likely it could happen to all 4 of them as well; the DE's knew who Harry's friends were.

[ccollinsmith]

I think that a) it would be best not to endanger additional lives and b) it would be best to limit knowledge of the horcruxes to as few people as possible. Voldemort, remember, is a powerful Legilimens. The fewer people who know about the horcruxes means the fewer people who can be potentially compromised if captured. Harry didn't even tell McGonnagall what he was after when he returned to Hogwarts to find the Ravenclaw horcrux.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Look at it this way....a lot of things could have happened or not during the course of the series. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it will ever happen, even over a lifetime. Yes, Harry was vulnerable to dying some other way (as everyone was) but he didn't. I don't see how adding Neville to the group from the beginning of DH would have made things more secure regarding destruction of the horcruxes. If as you suggest 3 of them could be "neutralized" and taken out of the picture, it's just as likely it could happen to all 4 of them as well; the DE's knew who Harry's friends were.

While I agree with you, I think one of ShadowSonic's points was not necessarily that Neville was the vital inclusion, but that someone outside of the major trio could have been useful. After all, Harry was not just as vulnerable to dying as anyone else: he was Undesirable No. 1, accompanied by two other high profile undesirables. Harry was hunted more than any other individual (it seems), so his chances of being caught and 'killed' by Voldemort (or accidentally killed by someone or something else) were higher than most other wizards, I think. Thus, my take on ShadowSonic's argument is that Dumbledore gambled in entrusting to only 3 people (all of whom were tied together in a close-knit trio) the information that could lead to Voldemort's destruction. Thus, if, say, Harry, Hermione, and Ron had been killed after being caught by the Snatchers, nobody living (other than Voldemort) would know about Voldemort's Horcruxes and how to eventually kill him. Perhaps Dumbledore's portrait could have then provided the information to someone else, but I think ShadowSonic has a valid point that it was a gamble on Dumbledore's part. Why not trust, say, Lupin (someone hunted, but not as closely tied to Harry as Ron and Hermione) with the Horcrux information, in the event that the trio failed?

Personally, I think the more intriguing question is could Remus have joined the trio on the Horcrux hunt? Harry was tempted by Lupin's offer, after all, despite Lupin's responsibilities as a father and the idea of only telling Lupin what he needed to know. But Harry did have set in his mind that he shouldn't tell Lupin about the Horcruxes, even if Lupin had accompanied them. I think Ron finally instilled some sense into Harry at Hogwarts, though, when he told him that Harry didn't have to do everything alone. While I agree that Dumbledore was right to have kept the Horcrux information consolidated within only a few people, it does seem odd that it couldn't extend to one more person like Lupin or Neville. I think, though, that the portrait was the safety net: if Harry, Ron, and Hermione all perished, the portrait would be able to pass on the Horcrux information to a successor.

[ajna]

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

Could Neville longbottom have, like Ron and Hermione,, joined Harry in their search for the horcruxes. I personally believe that he was brave and by this stage, quite skilled and so could have been a valuable extra person. He was their age and he didn't have any reason not to join unlike Remus. He was also the other boy mentioned by the prophecy and so I would consider it appropriate. It would also be interresting as we as readers could have learned more about his character.

Do you think it would have been a good decision to take him in?

How do you think it would have affected the plot of the horcrux hunt?

Any other comments?

I have not read all the comments in this thread. I think he could have. I think Lupin could've also. But I also really believe that a large part of what Rowling was doing here was using the magical number of 3. It was important that the trio do this.

[ThisYearsGirl]

I'm really torn on this, because much as I love the Trio's friendship I hate the cliquish-ness that sometimes goes hand-in-hand with it, and I love the times when Harry is seen letting someone else in. This usually happens to be Neville - gotta say, one of my favourite DH moments is Neville being the last friendly (living) person he talks to before going to his death - who the movie replaces with Ron and Hermione at this key moment, typical - and he spends that talk giving Neville the info he'll need to essentially take over for Harry in the event of Harry not coming back. It's exactly what Dumbledore spent all of HBP doing with Harry. It was also a brilliant parallel to draw right then - to what Harry thought he was about to do (die) and to that big-brother-slash- mentor dynamic between Harry and Neville (going all the way back to "You're worth twelve of Malfoy"). I get what everyone's saying about Ron and Hermione having "earned" the right to knowing about the Horcrux hunt over 7 years, but I kind of think this scene shows that Harry was, or could easily be at the point of trusting Neville almost as much, and tbh, if he was able to reach that point in chapter 36, I don't see a good reason why he couldn't have reached it earlier in the book, aside from "it would screw with the plot". But I'm one of those who agree that keeping the Horcruxes a secret between three teenagers wasn't a genius move.

Plus, Neville's sheer BAMFness in leading the DA probably made up a huge part of the reason Harry decided he could handle Nagini with Ron and Hermione, and if Neville had joined the Horcrux hunt he wouldn't have been aroundto lead the DA...

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead

While I agree with you, I think one of ShadowSonic's points was not necessarily that Neville was the vital inclusion, but that someone outside of the major trio could have been useful. After all, Harry was not just as vulnerable to dying as anyone else: he was Undesirable No. 1, accompanied by two other high profile undesirables. Harry was hunted more than any other individual (it seems), so his chances of being caught and 'killed' by Voldemort (or accidentally killed by someone or something else) were higher than most other wizards, I think. Thus, my take on ShadowSonic's argument is that Dumbledore gambled in entrusting to only 3 people (all of whom were tied together in a close-knit trio) the information that could lead to Voldemort's destruction. Thus, if, say, Harry, Hermione, and Ron had been killed after being caught by the Snatchers, nobody living (other than Voldemort) would know about Voldemort's Horcruxes and how to eventually kill him. Perhaps Dumbledore's portrait could have then provided the information to someone else, but I think ShadowSonic has a valid point that it was a gamble on Dumbledore's part. Why not trust, say, Lupin (someone hunted, but not as closely tied to Harry as Ron and Hermione) with the Horcrux information, in the event that the trio failed?

Personally, I think the more intriguing question is could Remus have joined the trio on the Horcrux hunt? Harry was tempted by Lupin's offer, after all, despite Lupin's responsibilities as a father and the idea of only telling Lupin what he needed to know. But Harry did have set in his mind that he shouldn't tell Lupin about the Horcruxes, even if Lupin had accompanied them. I think Ron finally instilled some sense into Harry at Hogwarts, though, when he told him that Harry didn't have to do everything alone. While I agree that Dumbledore was right to have kept the Horcrux information consolidated within only a few people, it does seem odd that it couldn't extend to one more person like Lupin or Neville. I think, though, that the portrait was the safety net: if Harry, Ron, and Hermione all perished, the portrait would be able to pass on the Horcrux information to a successor.

I don't think either Neville or Lupin would have been a good fit with the trio's mission. Neville hadn't found himself yet -- that happens while he's at Hogwarts standing up to the Carrows -- and Lupin was running away from something, not looking to join up. And I really don't see how 1 more person makes a difference here, because 4 could die as easily as 3 with no one else knowing about the horcruxes.

[ShadowSonic]

What if the 4 weren't all on the same quest operating as one group, with 1 of them (Remus) going after one of the other Horcruxs instead of helping Harry with a particular Horcrux?

[RegulusBlackFan]

We have established that perhaps neither Remus nor Neville would have been ideal but what about Kreacher? Kreacher could be ordered to not tell anyome and would be useful at dissaperating the trio out of dangerous situations. On top of that, Kreacher himself had gone horcrux hunting with Regulus and it might have been a great honour for him to destroy the locket. They were mad not to take him.

[HRW]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

What if the 4 weren't all on the same quest operating as one group, with 1 of them (Remus) going after one of the other Horcruxs instead of helping Harry with a particular Horcrux?

The problem here is Harry has no clue where the horcruxes are and it's next to impossible Lupin would have figured out there was a horcrux inside the gringotts vault or one in the room of requirement (which lupin did not even know existed). Lupin was better off attending to his wife and impending kid than be of on a wild good chase that had no chance of being successful.

[Quickquill]

Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan

We have established that perhaps neither Remus nor Neville would have been ideal but what about Kreacher? Kreacher could be ordered to not tell anyome and would be useful at dissaperating the trio out of dangerous situations. On top of that, Kreacher himself had gone horcrux hunting with Regulus and it might have been a great honour for him to destroy the locket. They were mad not to take him.

Even though Harry tried to be kind to Kreacher, I don't think he was quite as friendly with him as with Dobby, and he didn't really trust Dobby all that much either. I also get the impression that Harry wasn't really all that aware of the extent of house elf powers, so it didn't occur to him to use Kreacher that way. Besides, Kreacher had already tried to destroy the locket and failed.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by Quickquill

Even though Harry tried to be kind to Kreacher, I don't think he was quite as friendly with him as with Dobby, and he didn't really trust Dobby all that much either. I also get the impression that Harry wasn't really all that aware of the extent of house elf powers, so it didn't occur to him to use Kreacher that way. Besides, Kreacher had already tried to destroy the locket and failed.

Good points in my opinion, except for the one about Dobby. While I agree that Harry (and most wizards) didn't have a very good working knowledge of elf magic, I think Harry did trust Dobby a lot.

[CheddarTrek]

Honestly I don't think there was a particularly good reason for Dumbledore to have forbidden Harry from telling anyone but Ron and Hermione. You can dig around and come up with a few that seem plausible but nothing seems to fit (in my personal opinion). It's a giant plot hole.

Harry, Ron, and Hermione spent forever camping and going over mediocre plans. Adding Neville probably wouldn't have helped much, though I doubt it would have hurt. He seemed to be doing pretty good at school though, so probably better he was there being useful/inspiring.

Main reason? Storytelling, as someone else said.

[Quickquill]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Good points in my opinion, except for the one about Dobby. While I agree that Harry (and most wizards) didn't have a very good working knowledge of elf magic, I think Harry did trust Dobby a lot.

Harry didn't trust Dobby, he tolerated him. He was willing to accept Dobby as a friend but he didn't really trust his magic. At the end of CoS he tries to make Dobby promise not to try to save his life anymore. Harry was somewhat clueless about some things that most wizards who grew up in wizard families took for granted, and house elves was one of them.

Everyone else seems to know more about House Elves than Harry does. Hermione, because she reads, Ron, because he grew up hearing about them at home, etc. Regulus knew and loved his house elf, Kreacher, who reciprocated that love.

Most of the House Elves seemed to love the families they served. (Something that Hermione refused to understand). Dobby was the glaring exception, but even he wanted to work, and felt uneasy about being paid for it. He just wanted to be treated fairly.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by Quickquill

Harry didn't trust Dobby, he tolerated him. He was willing to accept Dobby as a friend but he didn't really trust his magic. At the end of CoS he tries to make Dobby promise not to try to save his life anymore.

Actually, that was a joke, and Dobby got it. As far as trusting, Harry does trust Dobby, for example with the Gilly Weed, the Room of Requirement, and most importantly, with getting his friends out of Malfoy Manor safely in DH.

Originally Posted by Quickquill

Everyone else seems to know more about House Elves than Harry does. Hermione, because she reads, Ron, because he grew up hearing about them at home, etc. Regulus knew and loved his house elf, Kreacher, who reciprocated that love.

I think the books show that Hermione understood very little about house elves; and Ron only appreciated that they were happy to serve wizards. Not exactly good knowledge or understanding. It took both of them until the end of the series to get a proper perspective.

In any event, I don't think that Harry was at a disadvantage in judging Dobby because he based his opinion on Dobby's actions (intent) and loyalty. But even so, I don't think that Dobby or Kreacher would have been a reasonable addition to the trio for the horcrux hunt, nor would Neville.

[snapes_witch]

No, Neville shouldn't have been on the horcrux hunt with the trio. I think he would have thrown off their dynamics.

Anyway he was better placed at Hogwarts fighting Snape and the Carrows with Ginny.