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  #121  
Old September 8th, 2011, 6:25 am
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Re: Latin

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Originally Posted by ProfessorWooton View Post
"Post totus hoc tempus?"
Severus: "Semper."
aterrima hora, anima repleta et roborata ut permaneat est. amor vitae essentia.


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  #122  
Old September 10th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Lotoc_Sabbath  Male.gif Lotoc_Sabbath is offline
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Re: Latin

Wow very intresting thread, to see how different poplations study latin. I am very interested in this because I am actually italian and for us studying latin is so easier since our language is basically that, many words are the same and the structure of sentences is similar in many occasions, I've been studying latin for 4 years now, I really like it.

Here is my favourite latin sentence, (actually a Harry Potter one ):

Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake


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Draco Dormiens Numquam Tintillandus


"J.K. Rowling's Imagination should be ensured to the Loyds in London for two or three billion dollars"
-Stephen King-



I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!
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  #123  
Old September 17th, 2011, 9:16 pm
ProfessorWooton  Female.gif ProfessorWooton is offline
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Re: Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath View Post
Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake
I thought it translated as "Never tickle a sleeping dragon?" Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Williwaw View Post
aterrima hora, anima repleta et roborata ut permaneat est. amor vitae essentia.
Ita vero.

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The Philosopher's Stone in LATIN!
I didn't even know HP existed in Latin until my birthday (yesterday). I don't know a ton of Latin, but I know enough to follow along (and it helps that I've read the English about fifty thousand times too ). It's awesome!! And for some reason, reading it in Latin makes everything funnier.


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  #124  
Old September 19th, 2011, 3:16 am
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Re: Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath
Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake
I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."


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  #125  
Old September 19th, 2011, 3:28 am
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Re: Latin

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Originally Posted by cathairetic View Post
I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."
Literally, it means, "A sleeping dragon [or snake] is never to be tickled." So yeah, either way.


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  #126  
Old September 19th, 2011, 4:24 am
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Re: Latin

I took a semester of Latin in college. The one warning I should give people about it is that its sentence structure is nothing like that of English. In fact, word order barely matters. The word endings give away subject/predicate instead.

Oh, and if you have a professor who's anything like mine was, the only poetry you'll be studying is most likely Catullus. Which... probably isn't good if you're under 18.


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  #127  
Old September 19th, 2011, 7:23 am
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Re: Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorWooton View Post

---
I got the coolest thing for my birthday! It was:

The Philosopher's Stone in LATIN!
I didn't even know HP existed in Latin until my birthday (yesterday). I don't know a ton of Latin, but I know enough to follow along (and it helps that I've read the English about fifty thousand times too ). It's awesome!! And for some reason, reading it in Latin makes everything funnier.
Harrius Potter et philosophi lapis! It's a brilliant translation of Philosopher's Stone. My 17 year old daughter who is currently reading Latin as part of her university course simply adores the book...she says it's a welcome diversion to have something entertaining to read in Latin besides the usually 'staid' text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by APolaris View Post
I took a semester of Latin in college. The one warning I should give people about it is that its sentence structure is nothing like that of English. In fact, word order barely matters. The word endings give away subject/predicate instead.

Oh, and if you have a professor who's anything like mine was, the only poetry you'll be studying is most likely Catullus. Which... probably isn't good if you're under 18.
On the topic of sentence structure (in a roundabout way); ofttimes I see people over-capitalize in their usage of Latin...it is--or was--academic best practice to restrict capitalization to names only. Therefore a sentence may commence without capitalization unless the cardinal word is a name.

My daughter was an early entrant into university (aged 16) and Catullus was/is amongst her reading and remains unimpressed with the offerings...'bored witless' were her words. Ennius, Ovid, and Horace were a few of the poets I studied when reading Latin or so long ago.


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"The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure...The mind is a complex and many-layered thing."

"Would you like me to do it now? Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?"

"And my soul, Dumbledore? Mine?"
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  #128  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 8:27 am
Lotoc_Sabbath  Male.gif Lotoc_Sabbath is offline
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Re: Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTung View Post
Literally, it means, "A sleeping dragon [or snake] is never to be tickled." So yeah, either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cathairetic View Post
I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorWooton View Post
I thought it translated as "Never tickle a sleeping dragon?" Hmm.
I am italian so I actually translate it form Latin to Italian and then to english but in Italy other than the language you study Latin literature a lot too so I always transalte with an intepretation from the latin culture too to make it a more plain translation so here is how you analyze this:


Draco dormiens numquam tintillandus.


So there should be an "est" at the end which latin doesn't put in beacuse it is unecessary so it would actually be:

Draco dormiens numquam tindillandus est.

Draco- is the subject it means big snake in latin, it could mean dragon but only in medieval times, roman latins didn't know what dragons were they were invented in medieval times.

Dormiens- this is a verbal adjective something that doesn't exist in english it means "while he sleeps" " the one who sleeps" "sleeping"

Numquam- simply means never

Tintillandus est- This is verbal 'apposition' that actually exists only in latin (for what I know), it comes the verb "tintillo" which means disturb, it is impersonal so you translate it saying: "it is needed to disturb" "must disturb" yet this is a very bad translation, this types of verb forms always get translated depending on the sentence.


So adding the result is: Never (numquam) you must disturb (tintillandus) the sleeping (dormiens) snake (draco)

making it to have a meaning the final result is:

Never disturb the sleeping snake.






PS: I apologize for the poor english vocabulary in the sentence analysis but I study latin in italian so Id on't know how to analyse it in english.


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It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that.

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Draco Dormiens Numquam Tintillandus


"J.K. Rowling's Imagination should be ensured to the Loyds in London for two or three billion dollars"
-Stephen King-



I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!

Last edited by Lotoc_Sabbath; October 2nd, 2011 at 8:30 am.
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  #129  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 9:30 am
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Re: Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath View Post
Draco- is the subject it means big snake in latin, it could mean dragon but only in medieval times, roman latins didn't know what dragons were they were invented in medieval times.
My dictionary does not show draco = "dragon" restricted to medieval times or later. (Of course, it has no citations from Classical Latin, either.) But even granting that point, since Hogwarts was founded in medieval times and continues to the modern day, they would have been perfectly familiar with that sense in any event.

Quote:
Dormiens- this is a verbal adjective something that doesn't exist in english it means "while he sleeps" " the one who sleeps" "sleeping"
I'm not sure why you think English does not have verbal adjectives: "sleeping" is a perfectly good example of one. We call them participles, but they are adjectives derived from verbs--hence, verbal adjectives.

Quote:
Tintillandus est- This is verbal 'apposition' that actually exists only in latin (for what I know), it comes the verb "tintillo" which means disturb, it is impersonal so you translate it saying: "it is needed to disturb" "must disturb" yet this is a very bad translation, this types of verb forms always get translated depending on the sentence.
The textbook translation typically employs the passive voice, though as you say, this often renders rather unidiomatically. So, for instance, quod erat demonstrandum (the infamous Q.E.D. of mathematics proofs) renders OK as "[that] which was to be demonstrated" (or "which had to be demonstrated"), but de gustibus non disputandum est comes out ungainly when rendered as "[matters] of taste are not to be argued" (or "must not be argued"). I generally prefer "one cannot argue matters of taste."

Anyway, I cannot find any Latin verb tintillo, with the N. (Italian spelling, perhaps?) I can only find titillo, which has the sense(s) "tickle, titillate, provoke, stimulate sensually"; we find the first sense in Cicero, for example: multitudinis levitatem voluptate quasi titillantes. I doubt that he was speaking of people being entertained by being disturbed (at least in the sense that you mean).

It's possible for titillo to mean "disturb" (see "provoke," above), and it does make some sense in context. But I think one reason why people might like to translate it in the usual way, "Never tickle a sleeping dragon," is that it aligns nicely with a rather earlier saying, from another fantasy novel, The Hobbit: As Tolkien writes,

Quote:
"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favorite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.


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Last edited by BrianTung; October 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am.
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  #130  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 9:42 am
Lotoc_Sabbath  Male.gif Lotoc_Sabbath is offline
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Re: Latin

Quote:
My dictionary does not show draco = "dragon" restricted to medieval times or later. (Of course, it has no citations from Classical Latin, either.) But even granting that point, since Hogwarts was founded in medieval times and continues to the modern day, they would have been perfectly familiar with that sense in any event.
Ok yeah this confirms the fact of medieval times but I like to translate the famous sentence with Snake since I always connect it to the idea of Dark Wizards and to the Chamber of Secrets so for me it is snake I like it best to dragon.

Quote:
I'm not sure why you think English does not have verbal adjectives: "sleeping" is a perfectly good example of one. We call them participles, but they are adjectives derived from verbs--hence, verbal adjectives.
Ok we have them to in italian sorry for that but I didn't know if you called lthem like that in english too.


Quote:
Anyway, I cannot find any Latin verb tintillo, with the N. (Italian spelling, perhaps?) I can only find titillo, which has the sense(s) "tickle, titillate, provoke, stimulate sensually"; we find the first sense in Cicero, for example: multitudinis levitatem voluptate quasi titillantes. I doubt that he was speaking of people being entertained by being disturbed (at least in the sense that you mean).

It's possible for titillo to mean "disturb" (see "provoke," above), and it does make some sense in context. But I think one reason why people might like to translate it in the usual way, "Never tickle a sleeping dragon," is that it aligns nicely with a rather earlier saying, from another fantasy novel, The Hobbit: As Tolkien writes,
The verb tintillo with the "n" is actually and ancient form of the verb titillo which means indeed tickle or provoke but disturb too so yes it would actually be better to write tickel but I wrote the first meaning that came to my mind.
By the way regarding tintillo, the "n" was taken away in the 3-4 century b.C.


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It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that.

"It is our choices, Harry, that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities."


Draco Dormiens Numquam Tintillandus


"J.K. Rowling's Imagination should be ensured to the Loyds in London for two or three billion dollars"
-Stephen King-



I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!
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  #131  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 10:02 am
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Re: Latin

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Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath View Post
By the way regarding tintillo, the "n" was taken away in the 3-4 century b.C.
Very interesting! Are there other Latin words that had this disappearing N?


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  #132  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 10:31 am
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Re: Latin

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Very interesting! Are there other Latin words that had this disappearing N?
Loads! There are so many thing that changed in latin in those centuries you could consider ancient latin and latin nearly two diffrent languges.
I'll tell you what i know: firstly the 'r' was read as an 's' in fact one of the first generals was called Valerio but it was read Valesio.
The genitve and accusative for were different. The genitve actually finished with an -ed in the 1,2 and 4 declination. I don't know many in my mind but if you are intrested I could search up my old latin literature book and tell you loads more.


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It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that.

"It is our choices, Harry, that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities."


Draco Dormiens Numquam Tintillandus


"J.K. Rowling's Imagination should be ensured to the Loyds in London for two or three billion dollars"
-Stephen King-



I know JKR denied it, but unless she gives me proof with a Deathly Hallows Sequel, in my head Harry and Ron are going to go back to hogwarts for their last year!
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  #133  
Old November 27th, 2011, 10:25 am
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Re: Latin

In Greek High Schools, apart from Greek, ancient Greek and English, it's also obligatory to study Latin. I've studied Latin for like, half a year now and they remind me so much of English and French I already know half of the words we learn Plus, lots of Harry Potter words originate from Latin...

P.S. Carpe Diem


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  #134  
Old December 4th, 2011, 2:00 am
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Re: Latin

Oh man...I studied Latin when I was in high school. We had to translate texts from Cicero, Caesar, Seneca, Virgil and so forth. I remember they were quite difficult! We used to cheat during tests by texting a friend home with the first sentences of the text to translate. If he managed to find it on the internet, he texted us back with the correct translation. So we all got good grades. lol But it was risky for those who were bad at Latin because teachers usually understood that they had cheated. Luckily I wasn't one of them
However...I preferred Latin literature over translating authors' works which was soo damn boring. Literature was way more interesting


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  #135  
Old March 4th, 2012, 12:50 am
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Re: Latin

We had Latin lessons in school for two years, it's not difficult to learn, I had some issues with grammar or syntax, though, but it's a nice language, in general.


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  #136  
Old March 4th, 2012, 4:05 am
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Re: Latin

I'm currently in the process of translating Catullus 64. I've really come to love Catullus' poetry.


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