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Grindelwald: Character Analysis



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  #61  
Old July 8th, 2011, 8:35 pm
AMAC  Male.gif AMAC is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

What did you think of him?

I love the contrast between him and Voldemort. I think he really believed what he was doing was for the wider wizarding world even if they didnt see it at the time. Voldy may have used all these excuses about the pure bloods recovering what was rightfully theirs etc but at the centre of his regime, Voldemort just wanted ultimate and undying power. Completely selfish and with no love what so ever. Gellert may have commited hideous things but he had a heart, he could love and he truly felt remorse imo.

What did you make to his and Dumbledore's blossoming friendship?

It was nice to see a vulnerable side of DD, and to know that even the greatest wizard of all time had a grey area and some form of weakness. I felt for DD in that his first love, which would have been confusing for him what with his sexuality being a straight guy using him for his power etc. It must have been heart breaking to want someone your so close to and knowing it'll never happen. Especially if that person knows it and uses it to their advantage. I do hope that their friendship was genuine though and that even though Grindelwald didnt romantically feel for DD that he cared for him as a good friend. I have my faith though as he tried to prevent Voldy breaking into his grave and stealing the Elder wand and therefore gaining the upper hand on the person Grindelwald was bound to know DD cared massively for, Harry.

For the greater good - did they have a point (albeit not going about the right way)?

In some ways it makes their idealism ''better'' than Voldemorts plans. I think DD and GG's ideals, they believed, were for the wizarding world at large and they'd only use force that was required. I doubt that torture and reckless acts of murder were in their plans. The main difference i think between DD and GG is that he became obsessed with these plans and his ideas of necessary force got obscured which lead to him commiting terrible war crimes. DD could see this side of GG when he attacked Aberforth which caused their parting and for DD to see how wrong he was to get involved in such plans.

Did the fact he was prepared to die rather than betray the wand's whereabouts redeem him?

I think he will always be held accountable for what he did, but he definitely proved that he showed regret and remorse in his later life. I think if you compare his and voldemorts afterlives Grindelwald would have gone on with a much healthier soul than Voldy did who probably remains in agony forever more.


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  #62  
Old July 17th, 2011, 10:32 am
colouredshadows  Undisclosed.gif colouredshadows is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

What did you think of him?
I thought he was an interesting character. Not your usual villain and certainly not as cold-hearted and ruthless as Voldemort. Maybe that made him all the more dangerous. I don't think Grindelwald ever underestimated those fighting against him and he certainly knew and valued the power of love, his friendship with Dumbledore meant a lot to him and he was probably devastated when he realised that Dumbledore had turned against him. I believe that he thought he was making the world a better place and he certainly thought that it was justifiable to do so by any and every means, hence also with the help of the Dark Arts. I believe that every brilliant wizard feels a certain tug in the direction of the Dark Arts at some point simply because they are a fascinating branch of magic. Grindelwald possibly just got in too deep and then couldn't find his way back out.

What did you make to his and Dumbledore's blossoming friendship?
They were two brilliant, cunning and clever wizards when they met and naturally they became friends. Dumbledore didn't have anyone to match his abilities in Godric's Hollow and thus it is quite understandable and natural that he enjoyed spending time with Grindelwald. I don't think we should hold that against either one of them. They probably never imagined that their ideas and dreams would ever take shape, that they would ever become more than a fantasy.

For the greater good - did they have a point (albeit not going about the right way)?
Well, this is a tough question. Dumbledore and Grindelwald certainly didn't grasp the magnitude of their concept, they didn't understand how ambiguous their slogan was (or at least Dumbledore didn't). Many totalitarian regimes murder, torture and control their inferiors claiming to be doing so for the greater good.

Did the fact he was prepared to die rather than betray the wand's whereabouts redeem him?
In a way it did, yes. I believe he realised where he had gone wrong and was determined not to support anyone ever going down that path again. He was clever enough to realise that Voldemort would learn about the wand's whereabouts eventually even without him revealing them. What he did, he did out of principle and because it was the noble thing to do.


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  #63  
Old July 17th, 2011, 3:03 pm
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by AMAC View Post
I think if you compare his and voldemorts afterlives Grindelwald would have gone on with a much healthier soul than Voldy did who probably remains in agony forever more.
Yes, I definitely agree, especially given that Grindelwald never made any horcruxes (that I'm aware of). So his soul, even if it was damaged from any atrocities he committed during the war, was never split up or physically separated the way Voldemort's was.

I actually think Grindelwald was a character with more depth to him than Voldemort, who seems a little stereotypical to me in just wanting power and immortality. Maybe it's because Grindelwald had more humanity than Voldemort, who slowly lost his through the creation of the horcruxes. Unlike Voldemort, it seems Grindelwald had the ability to love, or at least to form friendships. And he did the right thing in the end, showing that he had the capacity for remorse. In fact, I had half expected him to join Voldemort's forces, but instead he set himself against Voldemort. I have to admire him for that at least.


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  #64  
Old July 17th, 2011, 4:01 pm
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

Am I right that Grindelwald was out for wizard supremacy but Voldemort was out for pure-blood supremacy? Giving their followers a slightly different ideology at any rate? I was wondering what Grindelwald was really after. If pure-blood supremacy then Albus as a half-blood would have been outside that and I doubt he'd have supported Grindelwald at all. I think Grindelwald wanted wizard domination (with himself at the top of the heap) while Albus thought that the world would be a safer place with wizards at the helm (obviously himself and Grindelwald).

With 50+ years in prison Grindelwald had plenty of time to rethink his life and seemed to have felt some remorse for what he had done. Whether he was defending Albus and his tomb by refusing to tell Voldemort where the wand was or whether he was trying to stop Voldemort's plans for domination it's hard to tell. Jealousy that Voldemort appeared to be achieving what he had failed to do? Or final realisation that what he had tried to do had been wrong?


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  #65  
Old July 18th, 2011, 3:00 pm
colouredshadows  Undisclosed.gif colouredshadows is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
I think Grindelwald wanted wizard domination (with himself at the top of the heap) while Albus thought that the world would be a safer place with wizards at the helm (obviously himself and Grindelwald).
Grindelwald was quite aware of how exceptionally talented he was and thus probably believed he would be a worthy and good leader. He was power-hungry and later got too deep into the Dark Arts but I think during his teenage years he was still a visionary with a good heart and just a few twisted views and misconceptions. And I agree that Dumbledore possibly had better intentions than Grindelwald.

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Originally Posted by horcrux4
Jealousy that Voldemort appeared to be achieving what he had failed to do?
The question is how well Grindelwald knew Voldemort seeing as he had been imprisoned for a long time when Voldemort came to see him. I'm sure Grindelwald instantly detected that Voldemort was unusually skillful and had great knowledge of various aspects of magic (he for instance knew about the Elder Wand). But I'm not quite sure whether Grindelwald knew enough about Voldemort to be truly jealous. For example, Grindelwald probably wasn't aware that Voldemort had taken over the Ministry of Magic.


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  #66  
Old July 18th, 2011, 8:03 pm
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

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Grindelwald was quite aware of how exceptionally talented he was and thus probably believed he would be a worthy and good leader. He was power-hungry and later got too deep into the Dark Arts but I think during his teenage years he was still a visionary with a good heart and just a few twisted views and misconceptions.
He was expelled from Durmstrang (which taught the Dark Arts) which means IMO that whatever he had been experimenting with there had been pretty dire. This was just before he met Albus so I think he must have already been deep into the Dark Arts. That doesn't speak well for his being a good-hearted visionary IMO, although I'm sure he got worse as his power and domination increased.


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  #67  
Old July 20th, 2011, 6:15 pm
colouredshadows  Undisclosed.gif colouredshadows is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
He was expelled from Durmstrang (which taught the Dark Arts) which means IMO that whatever he had been experimenting with there had been pretty dire. This was just before he met Albus so I think he must have already been deep into the Dark Arts. That doesn't speak well for his being a good-hearted visionary IMO, although I'm sure he got worse as his power and domination increased.
Well, I believe he still had some good left in his heart because he befriended and cared deeply for Albus. In that respect he certainly differs greatly from Tom Riddle who neither knew of friendship and love nor felt the need to. And in my opinion he was a visionary. He did want to change the world, change it according to his vision which also sets him apart from Tom Riddle who I believe was never a great visionary. He sought only power and control and lacked dreams except for wanting to be immortal. At least Grindelwald thought the wizarding community could benefit from his plans and his rise to power.


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Old August 1st, 2011, 1:58 pm
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

J K Rowling said in an interview somewhere that Dumbledore was in love with Grindlewald, did she ever mention whether it was an one sided thing or not?


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  #69  
Old September 22nd, 2011, 11:17 pm
JohanT  Undisclosed.gif JohanT is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

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What did you think of him?
As others in this thread have said, Grindelwald made an excellent contrast to Voldemort. Through Grindelwald's character, Rowling depicts the grey area of humanity in comparison to the jet black area. Though Grindelwald's ideals were similar at one point to Voldemort's, and his actions were no less despicable, his ability to love and feel remorse show that he still remains human despite his flaws. Whereas Voldemort is an unrealistic but very accurate representation of the worst possible human being, Grindelwald is a character who has the potential of showing up in the real world.

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What did you make to his and Dumbledore's blossoming friendship?
It was evident that both of these rather bright wizards had never truly met an equal. And when they finally came face to face, it must have been exciting for both of them. I do believe that Grindelwald felt affection for Dumbledore as a friend, though I think it is rather obvious that Grindelwald took advantage of Dumbledore's romantic feelings.

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For the greater good - did they have a point (albeit not going about the right way)?
The concept of the "greater good" was initially that the Statute of Secrecy would be removed, and wizards would be free to do as they pleased. They would no longer have to remain cautious, or hide from the world as though they did not exist. It sounded as though it was a very liberating movement, but most ideologies grow corrupt as they start being enacted. This ideology of Grindelwald's certainly sounded appealing to those who had perhaps been wronged by Muggles (Dumbledore), but Grindelwald only used this as a cover. As was mentioned by previous posters, Grindelwald was already practicing Dark Magic, and no doubt intended to use it to bring the world to its knees. Perhaps he would have liberated the wizarding world, I don't know, but I know for certain that he was power-hungry, and no matter how misleading, his ideology was merely masking his plan for world domination.

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Did the fact he was prepared to die rather than betray the wand's whereabouts redeem him?
Though this act was small and did not necessarily prevent the inevitable (Voldemort breaking into Dumbledore's tomb), I would say that it was definitely a step towards redemption.


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Old October 24th, 2012, 11:27 pm
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

What did you think of him?
When I first heard of him, I thought he was just another evil wizard like Voldemort. I still think he is evil in that he'd go so far (murdering people and everything) to achieve his goal of taking over Muggles. But I also think he was pretty powerful, and intelligent, and maybe charismatic like Voldemort had been. What I was most surprised about was that he had apparenlty been alive the whole time (I wish that'd been mentioned before, I really had thought that when Dumbledore defeated him, he'd killed him).

What did you make to his and Dumbledore's blossoming friendship?
I think their friendship was very real because it seems that they both found someone who was their equal and shared the same thoughts/idealogy. Even though they knew each other for only two months or so, I think they got somewhat close. But I think that Gellert's goals were more important to him than his friendship with Dumbledore because Arianna's death caused him to flee, rather than think of what Dumbledore would be going through.

For the greater good - did they have a point (albeit not going about the right way)?
He really seemed to think that it really was for the Greater Good which implies that maybe he wasn't being all that selfish, like Voldemort was. He thought his plans would take the wizards out of hiding, and he thought he was doing something that would be beneficial and productive, so I think he had a point. In fact, sometimes I'm surprised that the wizarding population doesn't hold ill feelings towards the Muggles who once tired to persecute them and forced them into hiding and caused them to put up all these safety measures that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Did the fact he was prepared to die rather than betray the wand's whereabouts redeem him? I think it did redeem him, I think it showed he may have realized the errors of his way and also that he cared for Dumbledore and didn't want his grave disturbed. If Gellert really hadn't changed and wanted to achieve power of Muggles/bring wizards out of hiding, he might have seen Voldemort as someone who would do that for him (although at the same time, he may have wanted himself to be powerful, not Voldemort).


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  #71  
Old January 19th, 2013, 11:37 pm
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

Dumbledore defeated Gridelwald in the 1940s. That's around the same time as World War II. Do you think both are related or is it coincidence?


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  #72  
Old February 12th, 2013, 10:37 pm
elloran  Undisclosed.gif elloran is offline
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Re: Grindelwald: Character Analysis

What did you think of him?

I think he was a person with a goal that wasn't the best for everyone but, in fact, not as bad as the things Voldemort did or planned to do. Even though we get to know that he went to Durmstrang (which is, as far as we know, not open towards muggle-born students), it has never been stated that he really cared about blood purity. His main problem was that wizards and witches had to hide instead of openly using their magic to live and stand above the muggles.

For the greater good - did they have a point (albeit not going about the right way)?

Grindelwald had a problem with the fact that wizards and witches had to hide their power instead of using it. Having to stand in the shadow of a population of less powerful people is something a lot of people may accept because "things are just better that way". Being "oppressed" in some way. Of course Grindelwald was ruthless if it comes to his goal, but I think the whole "For the greater good"-motto had a point.

Did the fact he was prepared to die rather than betray the wand's whereabouts redeem him?

Maybe. I think he also realised that he wouldn't ever live a "normal" life again and dying instead of telling Voldemort what he wanted to know was just an opportunity to let everything end earlier.


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