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Book SIX: Who will fall in love with whom part five



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 4th, 2003, 8:09 am
lanifiel  Male.gif lanifiel is offline
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Book SIX: Who will fall in love with whom part five

Greetings and welcome again to the fifth installment of the love thread (Insert Applause),

I hope you all have fun in here, and have some good debate with each other. However, lets try and keep our tempers undercontrol...

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  #2  
Old September 4th, 2003, 8:16 am
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Well looks like I've got first post in here again! See? Late night surfing does have its benefits!

Well as most of you would know, I ship Harry/Hermione. I also think Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny could either happen or just have the story end with us knowing they will get together eventually.

Now as a veteran of these threads I'd just like to request that everyone have some courtesy towards each other and what not...let's not have to be given another time out! The COS Forums Love Thread is different from many others at other forums because of its good atmosphere with intelligent discussions, so let's not lose it!


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  #3  
Old September 4th, 2003, 8:28 am
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New thread---fantastic. I'm considered a newbie since I only have a dozen posts from the last thread, but I'm totally looking forward to debating (civily) with R/Hr and H/G shippers. I am an H/Hr supporter of course


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Old September 4th, 2003, 8:50 am
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This isn't my return but I'd just like to send a quick encouragement and cheer to all you HMS Heron shippers! R/Hr Forever!


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Old September 4th, 2003, 10:03 am
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Good luck to everyone on board the HMS Harmony!

H/Hr forever!


  #6  
Old September 4th, 2003, 1:57 pm
marspeach  Female.gif marspeach is offline
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I don't really post here, but good luck to HMS SIGNS! Neville and Ginny 4evah!( I just had to say that).

My main ship is N/G, but I also ship H/Hr and R/L. If neither of these ships happened, I wouldn't be opposed to H/G, H/L, or H/K. The only ship I'm pretty much against now is R/Hr, although this could change. Ron did get a little more tolerable in OotP.



Last edited by marspeach; September 4th, 2003 at 6:13 pm.
  #7  
Old September 4th, 2003, 2:09 pm
ilovesirius ilovesirius is offline
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Hi, I'm pretty new to this whole thing but I've had fun reading the debates previously and just want to add in my little bit. Personally, I ship R/Hr all the way! but I can see the possibilities of a H/Hr relationship as well. Although it appears that Harry and Hermione understand each other better than Ron and Hermione, there would be definitely more fun in reading about Ron and Hermione's developing relationship.

I can't quite decide now between H/G or D/G (very unlikely in canon sadly...) but I think N/G also has possibilities Although the idea of N/L is cute, can you imagine the disaster if they two actually got together? Luna is dreamy, unaware of events going on and Neville is forgetful and easily embarrassed. It'd make for amusing reading at least.

Still, if Harry doesn't end up with Ginny or Hermione, I think Luna will likely be the next candidate as no other stand-out females around his age have been presented - Parvati, Lavender and Padma all take a sort of backseat and the other DA members have little other interaction with him. I think there was definitely a connection between the two of them and perhaps this will be explored further whether in a romantic or developing friendship romance.

Well, that was my input for now. I hope that was okay for everyone and I look forward to lots of further debating!
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Old September 4th, 2003, 3:26 pm
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Hi everyone! back!

I can't believe how many projects I completed on the love thread's little hiatus!

For new posters, I ship R/Hr -- I don't really ship anyone else, though I technically don't object to H/G or N/G, or even H/L, though I think the evidence for Luna and anyone is slim, since we've only just met her.

Anyway, I'm glad the thread is back, and brand-new to boot! to ilovesirius and polaris, and welcome back to all of the veteran posters. Good luck and happy posting to everyone -- and an extra to my fellow shipmates aboard the Heron. Long may she sail.

MEM- as always, funny sig pic. Do you do those in Photoshop?


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Old September 4th, 2003, 3:40 pm
GryffindorGal  Female.gif GryffindorGal is offline
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OK lets see. The only ships that I firmly believe have a chance of sailing in the end are both the H/Hr and N/ ones. I'd love Ron/Luna (they are such true opposites that they complement each other very well.) BUT I'm stongly beginning to suspect that JKR is using Ron's one liners to hint at future events and Ron's death is a possililty (given the rate at which Ron's "predictions" come true . .Arthur Weasley should be the MoM any minute now :-)). And I really wouldn't be surprisd if Luna were killed as well.


  #10  
Old September 4th, 2003, 4:15 pm
tree guardian  Undisclosed.gif tree guardian is offline
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Hello Everyone! It's nice to know we can post about the love plots of Potter again.

Hmm, well I am sure that I boarded the H/Hr ship sometime this past July. I think though there is canon to support a possible R/Hr pairing, I would certainly rather see H/Hr. And though there is canon a possible R/Hr pairing I think there is just as much and stronger canon for a H/Hr pairing.

And yes, I do think there is the possiblity that Harry won't choose a mate.

I like to give my opinions and support for both ships, though I don't consider myself an R/Hr shipper at all. I don't like the idea of H/G, full stop. No I don't think it would be an interesting read, I think it would be very dull. B/C IMO, Ginny seemed a definite obvious choice from at least COS and I wouldn't be surprised, at all. SHe has already been the damsel in distress, and still there wasn't any romantic nor deep friendship develpement. No, especially at this point in the series, I wouldn't find any developement of a romantic relationship between Harry and Ginny interesting at all, because no matter what, Ginny and Harry's in canon relationship will never surpass what he has with Hermione. It really is impossible, to build such a relationship with Ginny. If anything, it would be a development that hasn't much to do with much. I don't think such a relationship would spurn undying burning never-ending love, but we as readers would see the simple beginings of the mere possiblity of a serious future (post 7th book) relationship. Which would thus signify Harry's coming of age- entering into man-hood, and most likely the fact that he is going to live to develope such. I don't think such a relationship would signal much else.

Harry isn't going to "survive" or "thrive" off of any romantic relationship with Ginny. Yet, Harry needs and most importantly wants a good strong relationship with Hermione. In OotP Harry seemed to want to measure up to Hermione, and he seemed to have an unspoken fear of failing in her eyes. (I am not exactly sure how to say this) But there were multiple incidences where Harry couldn't meet eyes with Hermione, for (unspoken but implied) fear that she would see through him so to speak. Ex. After finding out Ron was prefect and not himself and during conversations about the O.W.L.S. and when they got their first papers back from Snape and he got a low score.

Now the beauty about Harry and Hermione's relationship, is that it is not really obvious what is going on. So although there is much canon to back any future romantic relationship, such a developement would come as not so much a total surprise but it would be a rising action if not a sub-plot climax. Some from a R/Hr ship once said that with Ginny, Harry would have to overcome the "obstacle" of Ginny getting over him or giving up on him, (ha-ha) but just think of the plot obstacle that would occur between Harry and Ron if H/Hr were to make a development. NOt that there would be a "falling out" over this issue, but there would be some kind of confrontation.

There is much potential for a deep and meaningful romantic development between H/Hr, because they already have a deep and meaningful friendship beyond a doubt all it takes is a little nudge in the right direction.

Okay.

Welcome back again, I look forward to future civil and extremely fun debates.

::tada::


  #11  
Old September 4th, 2003, 5:39 pm
Buckbeak  Female.gif Buckbeak is offline
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Although iv always been a H/Hr shipper at heart, i'm not completely convinced that they'll be together in the end, but there obviously is just as much chance as R/Hr infact possibly even more because it hasn't been made so obivious which kind of makes me think JK will eventually go that way beause she never sticks to the obvious. Anyway glad the love thread is back up again, i was actually beginning to go slightly insane, with the lack of it, to be honest.


  #12  
Old September 4th, 2003, 5:48 pm
Buttercup Buttercup is offline
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Hello welcome back to everyone.

When did the ship 'Heron' get named and what is behind the name? I have been out of the love threads for a bit and that name is a new one to me. Any R/Hr shippers please enlighten me if you would like to.

To Sirius83 I can't believe you dropped Eloise/Ron from your shipping lists. How dare you!!!!!

I just have the horrible feeling that Harry isn't going to survive the series so I just don't know if he will have a serious girl friend.

But I do want to know what everyone thinks is going to happen in book 6 not the end of the series. Any more dates or breakups?

I am torn between Ron still playing it cool for his feelings for Hermione and him starting to push things a little. They didn't have much action romantically in book 5 so I wonder if in book 6 we will see some romance for either character. Not necessarily with each other but just something happening.

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers

Buttercup


  #13  
Old September 4th, 2003, 7:01 pm
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Sorry Buttercup! I still think Ron/Eloise would be a cute sort of "poetic justice" ship, but I like shipping canon and I can't see them happening in canon anymore with the introduction of Luna. It was very hard to find anyone other than Hermione to believably put Ron with, but then along came Luna!

As far as relationships in book 6, I don't think we'll be seeing any dates, any couplings or any breakups. What we will probably see in my opinion is Ron realising he can't have a relationship with Hermione and growing closer to Luna, and some more Harry -> Hermione stuff. OOTP had little things like having Hermione in his dreams, having part of his mind speak in her voice...I think we may see more of this in book 6. I also think we may see Harry taking notice of Hermione more and from Hermione's end, more scenes like the elf hats one.


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Old September 4th, 2003, 7:06 pm
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Hi Buttercup.

The Heron gets its name from the combination of Hermione and Ron. It's been around for as long as I can remember, so I'm not really sure how it originated.

Any additions from more seasoned love thread vets might be more helpful.

Buttercup, your limerick in your sig is funny!

As far as book 6 relationships/dates goes, it's really hard to say. However, I think that, at the very least, Ron will own up to his feelings for Hermione and tell someone - preferably Hermione. Whether she returns the feelings or not, well -- as you know the love thread well, you also know that whether or not she returns the feelings is largely up to interpretation!

I personally think Harry is going to have so much going on that he won't have time for dating in Book 6, unless there is a circumstance (like the Yule Ball in GoF) that puts him in a position for a date. Cho is, IMO, history. And good riddance...

I wonder if Ginny and Dean Thomas will continue their relationship -- the end of Book 5 seems to at least suggest that we will see something of the two together.


  #15  
Old September 4th, 2003, 7:11 pm
Nia  Female.gif Nia is offline
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Nice to be Back!

Hi, everyone and Back!

It is so nice to see this thread back up again. Hopefully all the demons that caused things to get so uncivil have been purged. This is the only place I post my shipping comments because of the legitimate intelligent challenges made by other ships. I think that looking at literature from other vantage points and discussing differing views is ultimately an enriching experience for everyone. One needn't get envolved in discussions that are silly or pointless or riddled with anger. What is the point of that?

I, by the way, ship Harry/Hermione. I see a very definite foundation which has its roots in mythology, literature and esoteric sources. This kind of relationship is also common to Jane Austen's writing, one of JKR's favorite authors. Austen's primary romantic pairing is generally kept a mystery (with subtle clues tossed in along the way) until the end of the book.

The development of Harry and Hermione is subtle and deft too and, because it does not shout and make its presence strongly felt, as most romances in contemporary media shout, it is not as apparent as say, Ron and Hermione, who are literally shouting at each other. I believe that Harry and Hermione's relationship transcends banal "chemistry" and simple physical attraction to become spiritual. That is something we definitely do not see a lot of in today's literature. Both are deeply complicated individuals with very "old" souls. It is this spiritual element that is so attractive to me and I truly believe it is in keeping with the overriding theme of the septology.

I can also see groundwork for Ron and Hermione if, for some reason JKR is not thinking quite as lofty as I presume. There are obvious clues (open to various interpretations) to this relationship should JKR choose to write it, but I would be very, very disappointed if she should select such a hackneyed, predictable romantic path rather than taking 'the road less travelled.'

I see no basis for Harry and Ginny in canon at all. True, Ginny is now suddenly quite "all that," but for all her development, I find her very young, very much fourteen and very full of fourteen-year-old ideas. She and Harry are abominably mismatched in my opinion. In addition to this, I feel that they have never connected on anything but the most superficial of levels. Again, if JKR wants to write a trite fairy tale and pair off Harry and Ginny, that is her affair, but, my opinion is that it will seem contrived, no matter how much 'development' she gives Ginny in the next two books. Youthful characaters should grow into their place of empowerment. The development shoud be as gradual and organic in literature as it is in real life, no matter how long the book. We simply do not see enough real development on Ginny's part for her to be a suitable mate for a boy who literally has the fate of the world resting on his shoulders. Quite simply put, Harry is too deep and complicated an individual for a merry, youthful soul like Ginny.

As with everyone on this thread, my shipping views are firmly grounded in my views on love. I believe love is more than seeing someone is cute and capable, Those superficial attributes only appeal to to the eyes. Physical beauty cannot reach a soul--only another soul can do that. I believe Harry and Hermione are soul mates--that their respective oddities make them see things from a similar perspective. As for the romance between these two, I feel it is only a matter of realization, mostly on Harry 's part, before they become a couple.



Last edited by Nia; September 4th, 2003 at 7:16 pm.
  #16  
Old September 4th, 2003, 7:14 pm
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Yep. If Ron owns up and makes a move rather than just give up on his own, we have a problem. It is my interpretation that Hermione will turn him down. Now that means that Ron will be feeling put out and embarrassed. This would cause problems within the trio. Now, playing devil's advocate here for a second, if Hermione does return Ron's feelings for whatever reason, we have a problem with Harry. We saw what Harry thinks of being left out at the start of OOTP, and if Ron and Hermione hook up, we'll probably see that come out of Harry again.

Either way, if R/Hr happens before Harry finds someone new, we have a problem. If H/Hr happens before Ron gets over his feelings, we have a problem. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.


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Old September 4th, 2003, 7:22 pm
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So here we are again. Before we start, I have to say that I think it was pretty foolhardy those of you who openly criticised lanifiel at the end of the last thread. Apart from the obvious fact that he is a respected moderator, he was in fact making a perfectly valid point.

We discuss canon at great length here; the vast majority of posts are solely canon-based. But we are here to answer a question – Who will fall in love with whom? It calls for speculation. Speculation involves making theories and predictions. If, in order to speculate on Who will fall in love with whom?, members wish to base their post on, or examine matters such as:

- The influence of the movies
- Symbolic and historical references
- JK’s interviews
- The fundamental nature of love and romance
- Human nature
- Instinct and intuition

Then so be it. Other members who do not wish to involve themselves in debates concerning one or more of the above have the option not to take part. What is not reasonable is to post comments which express objections to debates concerning those matters. It is posts such as those which are completely meaningless, and at best can only be considered as post-count boosting. No one member is any more important than any other here, whether they have 1 post or 1000 posts to their name. No one member is entitled to control the direction of discussion. Personally, I should have thought that the exploration of such diverse avenues would make for a varied and interesting debate.

Having said all that here’s a prediction which is based on canon, though my conclusion draws to some extent on gut instinct:

Luna, Ron and Hermione

The fundamental question posed by H/Hr shippers in terms of the prospect of a R/Hr romance has always been ‘Why hasn’t Hermione shown any feelings towards Ron?’ And if the truth be told, it’s always been a great source of frustration to R/Hr shippers that her feelings towards Ron have always been just subtle enough to create a slight(very slight) element of doubt. What are the mechanisms that will allow Ron and Hermione to fully explore their feelings for one another?

Well, we’ve seen Ron’s mechanism in Viktor Krum and the whole Yule Ball fiasco. His jealousy is palpable and continues through OotP, though expressed in a more measured manner. Incidentally, I should just say, as an aside, whilst on the subject of the Yule Ball, the line ”Next time there’s a ball, ask me…..” has to be the clearest bit of foreshadowing ever. I digress. Where is the mechanism that will allow Hermione to fully explore her feelings for Ron?

Overlooking the Fleur factor, which does admittedly contain a 2% element of doubt, given Hermione’s initial dislike of the girl, it’s perfectly obvious to my mind. The mechanism is Luna; which although having been briefly alluded to in previous posts, has not yet been fully examined. It must be. It will I feel be the most important single means which will allow JK to give us an insight into how Hermione truly feels about Ron.

I have to say at this stage that I have revised my original view of a possible Luna-Ron attachment, which was at best sceptical, at worst dismissive. But, I see now that not only is it possible, but it is inevitable. For one reason. It will knock Hermione for six. As an essential part of her character development, Hermione is long overdue for a significant setback. This, I feel will be it. Quite how far JK will take a Luna-Ron relationship, I am not sure. It is, in itself of no relevance. It will serve one purpose, and one purpose alone – to put Hermione through the same sort of emotions Ron experienced over her and Krum 2 years previously, and to allow those feelings that have been so subtly concealed/expressed to come to the fore.

This is of course speculation. But it is solid and prudent and based on how the interaction between Hermione and Luna has been depicted in OotP. Luna is a very important character. In terms of the overall plot, in addition to this particular sub-plot, she is probably the most important new character since the first book. She will, I am convinced, play a pivotal role in Harry’s task. But on the specifics of the romantic question, the disdain expressed by Hermione towards Luna speaks volumes, not least because Hermione is generally seen as a fighter for the underdog. You have to ask why this should be so. This uncharacteristic display of disdain, I am convinced, will play out fully in Book 6 as she sees Ron slipping through her fingers.

In many ways the scenario is comparable to the Fleur episode. In both cases Hermione does not initially take well to either Fleur or Luna. But that 2% element of doubt over Hermione’s jealousy toward Fleur will not be there with Luna if, as I suspect, Luna shares an attachment with Ron. There will be no room for doubt. Hermione’s feelings will then be made perfectly clear.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadIMoody
The Heron gets its name from the combination of Hermione and Ron. It's been around for as long as I can remember, so I'm not really sure how it originated.

Any additions from more seasoned love thread vets might be more helpful.
I'll take the blame for that. Sorry! :frown: In the dim and distant past about 7 or 8 threads ago, pre OotP.



Last edited by Daveydee; September 4th, 2003 at 7:40 pm.
  #18  
Old September 4th, 2003, 7:43 pm
Bexfizz  Female.gif Bexfizz is offline
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Daveydee, not to bash your theory because i'm on your side concerning Ron and Hermione, but is what your saying that Ron will go out with Luna, just to have Hermione jealous and admit her feelings for him. somehow that doesn't sound right to me, i can't really see JK writing it that way, considering that it sounds to me to take up a lot of plot time and as it doesn't concern Harry there just doesn't seem to be any point to it. As book 6 and 7 are nearing the end of the series, JK really can't afford to waste her time on stuff like that, i see Ron and Hermione just going out and thats the end of it, nothing to much will come out of their relationship, which as far as i'm concerned is a good thing because too much emphises on that would do my head in, but thats just what i think about it, of course your theory is good afterall. Oh and if iv misunderstood you then i appoligise.


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  #19  
Old September 4th, 2003, 7:57 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexfizz
Daveydee, not to bash your theory because i'm on your side concerning Ron and Hermione, but is what your saying that Ron will go out with Luna, just to have Hermione jealous and admit her feelings for him.
Whether Luna and Ron will go out together, I'm not sure. The point I'm trying to examine is the Luna---->Ron interaction. But yes, basically, that is what I'm predicting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexfizz
somehow that doesn't sound right to me, i can't really see JK writing it that way, considering that it sounds to me to take up a lot of plot time and as it doesn't concern Harry there just doesn't seem to be any point to it.
There needs to be some plot device which advances the R/Hr relationship, which for the past two books has been the two of them taking one step forward & two steps back, put simplistically. Please, all, do not think my R/Hr conviction is any less wholehearted in light of this statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bexfizz
As book 6 and 7 are nearing the end of the series, JK really can't afford to waste her time on stuff like that, i see Ron and Hermione just going out and thats the end of it, nothing to much will come out of their relationship, which as far as i'm concerned is a good thing because too much emphises on that would do my head in, but thats just what i think about it, of course your theory is good afterall. Oh and if iv misunderstood you then i appoligise.
I can see it being handled in very much the same manner as the Krum plotline, which didn't detract from the main plot of GoF. And of course all the groundwork for R/Hr has already been done. Expect there to be another ball."Next time there's a ball..."



Last edited by Daveydee; September 4th, 2003 at 8:02 pm.
  #20  
Old September 4th, 2003, 8:03 pm
wahsup86 wahsup86 is offline
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This is in response to how many say JKR is making R/Hr seem obvious so she can blind-side us with a suprise in H/Hr, becasue her books are infamous for completely suprising twists. I just want to say I disagree because a relationship isn't just something she could switch on or off as a suprise in two books.

I feel that JKR understands that in the world of Harry Potter just as in the real world a foundation for a relationship must exist, so she has been laying the ground work for R/Hr since GoF. And yes one can argue there is a romantic relationship foundation being laid for H/Hr, but it is not as blatant as R/Hr. She is writing the R/Hr relationship as almost a struggle (presented in thier countless fights) so for readers when they finally do hook-up we all go "About Freaking Time" (or at least those of us who wanted a R/Hr relationship). The H/Hr relationship does not share the same kind of foundation, if Harry liked Hermione, we would know. Argue all you want about the evidence showing Harry likes Hermione, the point is, we see the story through Harry, hear his thoughts, feel his feelings. If he liked Hermione we would be told very plainly as we were with Cho.

Now I CAN understand why some would say Hermione likes Harry, but the whole "Ask me first next time and not as a last resort" fight with Ron is just too big a hint for me to ignore. A relationship of any kind could not be developed and put into motion in two books. The foundation is laid for R/Hr, this part of the book is not being written to catch us off guard like everything else. This is just my opinion, as I am sure many will disagree.


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