Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Divination Studies

Assuming Snape is Working for the Order - What are the Implications for Book 7?



 
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:03 pm
Inkwolf's Avatar
Inkwolf  Undisclosed.gif Inkwolf is offline
I trusted Severus Snape
 
Joined: 5908 days
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,305
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterious
one thing we know is that Dumbledore limited his relationship with Snape to an extent of a Headmaster and a close collegue but no furhter or Dumbledore would have confined in Snape his plan which she shared with none other but Harry.
I don't agree with that. Firstly, there's no evidence at all what distance (if any) Dumbledore kept between himself and any of his people. Secondly, even if he treated Snape like his own son, there's no reason he would run to tell him EVERY thing he did. Thridly, I'm not sure exactly which plan you're talking about, but I imagine it is possible that Snape knew about it, if we accept the premise that he was a valued advisor and the one Dumbledore would need to run to for first aid.


Sponsored Links
  #62  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:03 pm
jkausten  Female.gif jkausten is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4776 days
Location: FBI's basement
Posts: 130
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

1. What do you think the reasons behind Snape's killing of Dumbledore were? When dumbledore is pleading with Severus, I think he's doing it for two reasons. We all know dumbledore was not afraid of death, so I don't think he would ever plead for his on life. He was pleading for Snape to what needed to be done to get the DEs off the tower before Harry was discovered. And more importantly that Snape would do it to save his own. I think Dumbledore knew Snape had made the Unbreakable Vow, and he sacrificed himself so that Snape could continue his role as a double agent and help Harry in his journey.
2. Does Snape know about the horcruxes and will he help Harry in his destruction of them? I'm sure Snape knows about the horocruxes. He's extremely interested in the dark arts, so I'm sure he knows about horocruxes. He's also extremely smart and has a lot more common sense than most wizards (hence his protection in PS/SS). After saving Dumbledore from the rings curse, I'm sure he deduced what caused it. More than that, I think Dumbledore trusted Snape enough to tell him about the horocruxes. As it now stands, Snape is definately the best person to help Harry in his journey. I even think Snape will try to help, but I don't know that Harry would ever accept his help.
3. Did Snape know about Voldemort's plan to kill the Potters and if so, why did he not try to prevent this? When Sanpe originally told Voldemort the prpphecy it would have been to early to know just whom the prophecy referred to. By the time Voldemort had decided it was Harry and anything could be done the Potters went into hiding. Only one person knew where they were. I'm sure Snape did know of Voldemort's plan, but I think he found out too late to do anything.
4. Why didn't Snape work harder to help Harry learn Occlumency? I know it seems that Snape didn't try very hard and maybe he didn't, but we all know Harry didn't. Without Harry practicing or trying to prepare harder, it's hard to say if Snape really wasn't trying.
5. How will Snape as a good guy fit into the plot of the final book? First he has to convince the Order that he acted in Dumbledore wishes. If they can accept his actions he'll be their best allie having regained Voldemort's trust


__________________

Last edited by jkausten; September 5th, 2006 at 1:50 am.
  #63  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:04 pm
Leslie33  Female.gif Leslie33 is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 4847 days
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 47
Posts: 650
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Thank you for starting this topic. I STRONGLY and Whole Heartedly believe in Severus Snape. As I've repeatedly stated, I still believe Albus Dumbledore. So therefore I TRUST Severus Snape.

Now to answer your questions:

1. What do you think the reasons behind Snape's killing of Dumbledore were?
Hagrid tells Harry about the argument between Snape and Dumbledore. Until I read it in the book, I believe they were arguing about Snape killing Dumbledore. Albus has repeatedly said that he TRUST Severus Snape. I also suspect Snape TRUSTS Dumbledore. So I suspect Snape arrived for the Start of School. Albus sees him and notices something is different about Snape--he can tell he is under a lot more stress than usual. I don't know, maybe Snape is avoiding him or something. In short, he is not behaving the way he normally would. Dumbledore confronts him and at first Snape denies there is a problem. Albus can tell Snape is not being forthright. So he somehow gets the truth out of Snape.
As the School Year continues, I see Snape asking if there are other options. Dumbledore has told Snape he is NOT afraid to die--he has lived a long life. Draco is only a Child--16 yes, but still a Child. He doesn't want Draco to grow up being labelled a Killer. Having to watch his back and LIVING with it. THIS is why he was so calm. If he hadn't known he probably would have said "What the hell are you doing" and shaming him in some way. But he doesn't, he talks Draco out of it. As rotten as the Boy is, Dumbledore still cares enough not to allow him to grow up to be like Lucius.
I see Snape going to Dumbledore and asking if there is another option--ie. faking his death, etc. Dumbledore tells him "no" that Voldemort would find out and all heck would break loose. In short Snape has No Way Out. This leads up to the Argument Hagrid heard. From what Hagrid says, he tried to eavesdrop without drawing attention to himself. This makes me strongly believe the two, normally calm, cool and collected men were YELLING at each other. I also see them getting into each other's Personal space. Hagrid commented that Snape sounded "overwhelmed". Severus Snape overwhelmed? Doesn't sound normal to me. Here is Severus Snape, a normally aloof man, who NEVER shows any emotion, who's motto is "only FOOLS proudly display their Hearts on display..." being overwhelmed. It doesn't sound like a guy who is eager to send Voldemort's greatest Enemy to his grave to me. Also, Snape doesn't seem like the type of Person to get frazzled easily. So something is up--he's in way over his head.
Also, notice Dumbledore PLEADED to Severus. He said "Severus...PLEASE" I for a moment will NOT believe he was saying "Severus, no don't". If he had been shocked he would have said "Severus, what are you doing? Oh Lord, please, My Boy. What are you doing this to me? What have I ever done to you?" Thus giving Snape--if he was EVIL to say something like "SHUT UP you Old FOOL. I AM in control, or did you forget, you lost your wand. You are losing it, my Friend. Where's your trusted side kick, Potter, where is he. I know he is here some where. I want him to see this. His "Hero" in dire need. What's the problem, POTTER, scared Stiff, aren't able to be the Hero this time. Well too bad for you. You always were like your Father, but even he would have been smart enough not to turn his back on the Headmaster." Yeah, I know it sounds too dramatic for Snape--but, if he was EVIL, he would have gloated like Tom Riddle AND Umbridge. He doesn't, he just walks up to Dumbledore, hesitates and In short, if Severus was EVIL, he would have gloated, but he doesn't. I still believe Dumbledore was pleading to Severus to do what he promised Narcissa. Then, if that is true, why is his face etched with HATE and revulsion? I believe at this moment he DOES HATE Albus Dumbledore. He hates Albus for MAKING him fulfill his promise. He HATES Dumbledore for making him do something that will label him a Murderer for the rest of his life. His life is over as he knows it. He, in a sense will be on the Run. Even if he is only convicted of a lesser crime, he will still be regarded as killing the most Beloved Wizard of Harry's time. So, yes, he HATES Dumbledore for this reason. The revulsion is because he is repulsed by what he has to do and at Dumbledore for USING him like this.
Also, let's look at the way he reacted to being called a COWARD. We all have that word which makes us stop cold and ask "What did you just call me?" and lose our cool. For Severus it was 'COWARD'. Notice his reaction is similar to that of Fluffy, a dog who is howling and fighting to get out of the burning hut. We feel for Fluffy, because he is a dog completely helpless. Snape's world as he knows it is finished. Again, painful memories.
.

2. Does Snape know about the horcruxes and will he help Harry in his destruction of them?
Didn't Dumbledore say that only Voldemort knew the location of the Horcruxes. Then again, I don't think Harry can find them on his own. He does have Hermione Snape's entitled "Insufferable know-it-all". I get the impression they are so well hidden that even Hermione couldn't find them. Plus, this is probably the ONLY thing Voldemort kept from Severus. Even if he was Voldemort's Favourite--I don't see Voldemort trusting him enough to tell him about the Horcruxes.
However, I do see Dumbledore knowing where and what all seven are. I also see him telling Severus and making him Promise/Vow not to divulge the secret to anyone. That WOULD be something pretty big to keep secret.
Again, I think he is the ONLY one who can REALLY teach Harry Occlumency. He is cold, mean and nasty enough to teach it to Harry without stopping. Which is what he will face in the final Battle.
He also knows the locations of the Horcruxes. I don't see him drawing a map and showing him their exact location. He will give Harry hints--which he must figure out on his own, but with the help of Hermione. He must then learn how to destroy them.
3. Did Snape know about Voldemort's plan to kill the Potters and if so, why did he not try to prevent this? This is a hard one to answer. I believe he knew Voldemort would go to the Potters' that night. He STILL wanted vengeance on James. I believe he is NOT one to make a near "I'll get you, just you wait, i'll make you pay" threat and leave it at that. He MEANT what he said. This is what makes him so Childish. He always has to have the last insult--the last word. Plus there was that part of him which wanted to say "See, Potter, I TOLD you I'd get you, now look at you begging for mercy". This makes me believe he was there the night of their Deaths. He intended on hurting James Potter--NEVER killing him, but terrifying him--as a pay back for the teenage version of himself. But something happened which made him freak. I think he heard Lily's hysterical cries for help and to leave the baby alone--which is a flash back to hearing his own Mother crying and pleading with her Husband to leave Severus alone. He panics and dashes up the stairs to where Lily is--hence what we hear Dumbledore screaming. I believe Snape arrived up stairs, sees Lily and the terror in her eyes and realizes Voldemort is going to KILL Lily and Harry. Dumbledore is reliving SEVERUS' memory from that night.
In a panic he goes to Hogwarts--the only place he knows he might be able to get refuge. He finds Dumbledore--who is very angry, but kind at the same time. I still say Severus breaks down and admits to his horrible crimes. Something more than a teary eyed--"Oh, God, I'm so sorry" happened. Anyone can break down in tears and start pleading "I'm so sorry". There's a lot more to the story. Something Dumbledore was going to tell Harry, but hesitated because he knew Harry would find some way to incriminate Snape.

4. Why didn't Snape work harder to help Harry learn Occlumency? Easy--Harry betrayed Snape's trust. He snooped into something which wasn't his business. He was 15 years-old and didn't need to be reminded that you don't touch other people's things. As shiny and interesting as they are, you don't touch them.
Also Snape realized Harry now sees him in a different light. He sees Snape as being on the same level as he was. Before he saw him being publically humiliated, Snape was "The Teacher"--you know, a giant--a person of Authority that you don't question. He could get away with bullying the kids and mocking them because he was on a pedistal. Now, after the SWM was witnessed by Harry, he realizes that if other kids found out they would say "Wait a second, he's just like I am. He's been humiliated too. How DARE he pick on me when he knows how it feels?" Which would lead some kids to defending themselves--thus taking away his power. Other kids, like Draco, yes, Draco would tell their Friends, and FATHER and start calling him by his Nickname--which, if you ask me, is insulting.
5. How will Snape as a good guy fit into the plot of the final book?
I see Harry and Snape "meeting" each other at Goderick's Hollow or somewhere Snape knows Harry will make an appearance. They will duel. Harry will call Snape names and Snape will make Harry sit down listen to him. He will then explain what really happened that night. He tells Harry where some pensieves are and Harry will see them and SLOWLY come to realize Snape is telling the truth.
I also see Snape defending Harry in some way and dying as a result. Unfortunately, I see Snape being the Tragic Hero. It will be AFTER his death that people will realize that Dumbledore was in his right mind in trusting Snape. I also see them honouring him in some way.


__________________



I TRUST Severus Snape!!!!

Last edited by Leslie33; September 5th, 2006 at 2:04 am.
  #64  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:28 pm
LockhartsGuru  Male.gif LockhartsGuru is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4489 days
Location: Top o' the world, Ma!
Posts: 16
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

I think Severus will play a crucial role within the context of book 7's much awaited "Horcrux Hunt". Whilst I believe that Hagrid will be Harry's main guide through this in 7, I believe that Snape will always be hovering in the background, trying to manipulate events so that Harry can beat Voldy. I also think, considering the fact that they were living together, that he will be involved in some way with Peter Pettigrew's life Debt to Harry. Snape and Pettigrew are, in my humble opinion, Voldy's weak point. And he will be quite unaware of this.


__________________


Spoil Anything and "Eddie" here will come round and eat your computer!
All Inferi must wear TOP HATS!
"A little nonsense now and then is counseled by the wisest men"

"In fact, I may be as woefully wrong as Humphrey Belcher, who believed the time was ripe for a cheese cauldron" - In memory of the wit of Albus Dumbledore.
Wombat Grade 3: Exceeds Expectations! Yay!

Join the ASA today and help prevent spoilers!.
  #65  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:44 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4862 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie33
Thus giving Snape--if he was EVIL to say something like "SHUT UP you Old FOOL. I AM in control, or did you forget, you lost your wand. You are losing it, my Friend. Where's your trusted side kick, Potter, where is he. I know he is here some where. I want him to see this. His "Hero" in dire need. What's the problem, POTTER, scared Stiff, aren't able to be the Hero this time. Well too bad for you. You always were like your Father, but even he would have been smart enough not to turn his back on the Headmaster. I've waited 16 years for this moment. First your Father, and now you Potter, using MY spells. You nearly killed Draco, but did I expell you, NOOO, because "Mr. Oh give him a chance, he didn't mean to" over there wouldn't let me. Wanna know a secret, I'm the Half-Blood Prince. well, I guess I'm not Mr. Cool dude now." In short, if Severus was EVIL, he would have gloated, but he doesn't.
I agree. The Villain Speech (under the circumstances, perhaps a tad shorter than your example ) was definitely missing from the Tower Scene.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #66  
Old September 4th, 2006, 11:49 pm
ignisia's Avatar
ignisia  Female.gif ignisia is offline
Leader of the GLITTELUTION
 
Joined: 4558 days
Location: Sitting in a Tin Can
Age: 29
Posts: 4,418
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

And Snape could easily have done it. The barrier blocking the stairs was still up when he went through it. Evil!Snape would have no worries about taking his time, then. But instead, he does it quickly, and shooes everyone out. Why? Because he didn't want the Death Eaters to stick around and hurt more people than they already had.


__________________
I am incapable of hating someone who, instead of using a spell to guard the Sorcerer's Stone, uses a logic puzzle.
I'm sorry.



VIVA LA GLITTELUTION
Looking for a home away from home?
Hogsmeade ~ Apparate.me
Avatar by SIP
  #67  
Old September 5th, 2006, 12:06 am
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4470 days
Posts: 330
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie33
2. Does Snape know about the horcruxes and will he help Harry in his destruction of them? This requires some thought. Didn't Dumbledore say that only Voldemort knew the location of the Horcruxes. Then again, I don't think Harry can find them on his own.
Well, Dumbledore evidently didn't know about RAB. More than just Voldy and Dumbledore have known/discovered at least some of Voldy's secrets in the past. I would, however, be somewhat surprised if someone other than just Dumbledore, Slughorn, and the footsteps of RAB were able to provide Harry with original knowledge of the situation. Maybe little clues here and there from people who didn't fully understand what they heard, like Malfoy not comprehending exactly what the diary was.


  #68  
Old September 5th, 2006, 12:35 am
leenielou's Avatar
leenielou  Female.gif leenielou is offline
Kingsley's Biggest Fan
 
Joined: 5603 days
Location: The Land of Pasta
Posts: 2,902
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkwolf
Thridly, I'm not sure exactly which plan you're talking about, but I imagine it is possible that Snape knew about it, if we accept the premise that he was a valued advisor and the one Dumbledore would need to run to for first aid.
Ditto. I just see Dumbledore, trusting Snape as he did, confiding in Snape about something, even if not the whole details of the horcruxes at least that he had found a way to defeat Voldemort. I guess if we get an inkling at the start of the new book that Voldemort knows that Harry knows about the horcruxes then Snape may not be good, but from this angle of him being good we know that Voldemort does not know thus far and so if Dumbledore did confide in Snape (which I think highly likely) then he's doing a good job keeping it quiet

It does seem sometimes that Dumbledore values Snape's trust almost more than McGonagall's, which speaks volumes. Or perhaps it could simply be that McGonagall has never needed to prove loyalty because she is inherently always there, whereas Snape has done that something (be it telling Dumbledore about Voldemort's plan or not) to really make Dumbledore place him so highly in his esteem.


__________________


Part of the Care Bear gang!
  #69  
Old September 5th, 2006, 12:45 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4862 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leenielou
It does seem sometimes that Dumbledore values Snape's trust almost more than McGonagall's, which speaks volumes. Or perhaps it could simply be that McGonagall has never needed to prove loyalty because she is inherently always there, whereas Snape has done that something (be it telling Dumbledore about Voldemort's plan or not) to really make Dumbledore place him so highly in his esteem.
Or it could be a prodigal son sort of situation (from the Christian parable). Of course Dumbledore has always appreciated McGonagall and the others who were on his side, but he makes a bigger deal for the former student he lost to Voldemort, and then had return to him. (Like the father in the parable welcomes the prodigal son back with a feast...it does not really mean he loves the son who stayed with him the whole time less).


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #70  
Old September 5th, 2006, 12:54 am
Melaszka's Avatar
Melaszka  Female.gif Melaszka is offline
HighFunctioning Sociopath
 
Joined: 4566 days
Location: England
Age: 50
Posts: 3,294
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Hurray! I've been on CoS all day on and off, and I've only just found this thread. Superb! I'm 100% convinced that Snape's a good guy.

1. What do you think the reasons behind Snape's killing of Dumbledore were?
Possibly because Dumbledore was dying anyway and they both knew that the killing would make Snape's cover as a supposed DE watertight. I can foresee a scenario in Book 7 where quite a few of the DE are actually not as loyal to Voldy as he thinks - Peter owes Harry a life debt, Lucius and Draco Malfoy may return to the good side as a result of what happened on the Tower, I also find the Huge Blond DE a bit suspect (he makes a lot of mess, which considerably slows down all the fighting, but only actually manages to kill another DE). I suspect that Snape and these guys may have a battle with the other DEs, heading them off, so Voldy's left on his own for Harry to deal with.

I think a more satisfying reason, though, would be if the joint sacrifice that Dumbledore and Snape made (DD freely offering his life, Snape agreeing to kill someone he cares for deeply, even though he feels "hatred and revulsion" for the task and he knows it will make him hated by his own side) unleashes some powerful magic. We've already seen the magical power of selfless acts in the books - Lily's sacrifice protecting Harry being the best example.

2. Horcruxes - don't know.

3. Did Snape know about Voldemort's plan to kill the Potters and if so, why did he not try to prevent this?

Isn't there canon on this? Isn't that why they went into hiding, because Snape had told Dumbledore who told them? That's what I always assumed from DD's comment that Snape was filled with remorse when he knew how Voldemort had interpreted the prophecy, and from the fact that they did know to go into hiding. I suspect, as well, from Snape's fulminations in the Shrieking Shack about Harry being, like James, too arrogant to believe there was any danger in trusting Sirius, that he may have tried, unsuccessfully, to influence their choice of secret keeper, or even volunteered himself for the job. I could, however, be completely wrong.

4. Why didn't Snape work harder to help Harry learn Occlumency?

I always thought he was working incredibly hard - it was Harry that was the total and utter slacker. Yes, his teaching methods were hopeless and guaranteed to make Harry feel so nervous he wouldn't be able to do it, but I don't think Snape was aware of that. In fact, his increasing frustration and desperation when Harry doesn't seem to be making progress (I'm slightly reminded of the Longbottoms dangling Neville out of the window in a well-meaning but misguided attempt to frighten him into doing magic) is one of the things that most convinced me that he is good.

And let's face it, he's nothing if not a persistent teacher - he doesn't give up. Even as he's fleeing Hogwarts with a gang of DE, hotly pursued by theMministry, he's still shouting Occlumency advice at Harry: "Blocked time and time again until you keep your mouth shut and your mind closed".

I've been very puzzled, too, by the way that Dumbledore words his comments about why the lessons failed, saying he'd forgotten "that some wounds run too deep for healing..." Snape's "feelings about your father". We're supposed to think that means Snape's hatred of James for the teenage bullying, but it's really ambiguous: "wounds" and "feelings about James" could be pretty well any painful or bittersweet emotion. I wonder if Occlumency lessons failed, either because Snape is so wounded by guilt at James's death that he tried too hard, or he was so angry that James didn't do enough to save himself and/or Lily, that he pushes Harry too hard not to make the same mistakes.



Last edited by Melaszka; September 5th, 2006 at 12:57 am.
  #71  
Old September 5th, 2006, 12:55 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4862 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkausten
As it now stands, Snape is definately the best person to help Harry in journey. I even think Snape will try to help, but I don't know that Harry would ever accept his help.
I think a fun line of discussion might be to brainstorm ways Snape could help Harry without Harry knowing.

First, if there was a plan with Dumbledore, I think there is someone else who knows. (My money would be on Aberforth Dumbledore for this). Snape could pass information through the one Order member who knows the whole story, who would pass it off as from some other source ('useful spies'?)

If there is no contact for Snape, it gets trickier. I think the idea of a changed Patronus might be a possibility. What would Harry think if a Phoenix patronus messanger brought him information? I don't think it would occur to him it could be from Snape...

A third possibility is Draco. Harry, having witnessed Draco and Dumbledore's final conversation, is convinced Draco was not going to kill Dumbledore. Might he accept information from Draco, if Snape managed to get Draco out of Voldmeort's clutches?


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #72  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:02 am
leenielou's Avatar
leenielou  Female.gif leenielou is offline
Kingsley's Biggest Fan
 
Joined: 5603 days
Location: The Land of Pasta
Posts: 2,902
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius
Or it could be a prodigal son sort of situation (from the Christian parable). Of course Dumbledore has always appreciated McGonagall and the others who were on his side, but he makes a bigger deal for the former student he lost to Voldemort, and then had return to him. (Like the father in the parable welcomes the prodigal son back with a feast...it does not really mean he loves the son who stayed with him the whole time less).
I was kind of aiming towards that but never quite got there The whole 'prodigal son' thing really does make it seem as though Snape were good - there is certain ambiguosity (is that even a word? ) about why Dumbledore trusted him so implicitly - it just seems too small a reason for some. To me it seems as though Snape did something that meant so very much to Dumbledore and possibly to the wizarding world that there was no choice other than to trust him, and to continue doing so, and to value him in this way because of it.

Quote:
I think a fun line of discussion might be to brainstorm ways Snape could help Harry without Harry knowing.
I like the patronus idea, although it may tempt Harry into thinking Dumbledore isn't really dead (bringing him help etc) which isn't a route I can see Jo going. Draco is a better bet in my opinion, as I can see something possibly along the lines of redemption happening with he and Harry in the next book. The boy is a nasty, nasty piece of work but he would be the best person to highlight the "joining of the houses" and the over-turning of Slytherin prejudice if he and Harry did come together somehow.


__________________


Part of the Care Bear gang!
  #73  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:09 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4862 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leenielou
I like the patronus idea, although it may tempt Harry into thinking Dumbledore isn't really dead (bringing him help etc) which isn't a route I can see Jo going.
I don't know about that. In one sense it would be cruel to raise Harry's hopes (and those of readers who do not read interviews online!). In another sense, though, it would come back to the idea that has been presented that those we love remain always with us. Harry still has the protection of his father through his Patronus; if Snape's Patronus changes and he works with Harry in Book 7, Dumbledore, too, will be there with them, at least in the same symbolic way as Prongs rides again every time Harry casts the Patronus Charm.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #74  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:09 am
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4470 days
Posts: 330
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius
I think a fun line of discussion might be to brainstorm ways Snape could help Harry without Harry knowing.
Unless the Potions book is the manifestation of this, Snape helping Harry in book 7 would create a fine parallel to PS. The whole time Snape is protecting Harry when Harry thinks he's evil; the same going on in book 7 would be very interesting to watch.

He'd have to be more underground this time than last, obviously. I like the idea of operating through Aberforth; if there's an Order member who knows what really went down at the Tower, it's him.

I have no idea what Draco will be doing, and what his relationship with Snape is right now. Does Draco owe Snape a life debt?

Maybe Dumbledore imparted some Horcrux-tastic knowledge to Snape on the orders to convey it to Harry in some manner. This could involve Aberforth somehow. It could also be unnecessary given the possibility of Dumbledore himself leaving some info behind for Harry to uncover.


  #75  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:13 am
leenielou's Avatar
leenielou  Female.gif leenielou is offline
Kingsley's Biggest Fan
 
Joined: 5603 days
Location: The Land of Pasta
Posts: 2,902
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius
In another sense, though, it would come back to the idea that has been presented that those we love remain always with us. Harry still has the protection of his father through his Patronus; if Snape's Patronus changes and he works with Harry in Book 7, Dumbledore, too, will be there with them, at least in the same symbolic way as Prongs rides again every time Harry casts the Patronus Charm.
Hadn't thought of it that way You're right, it would enforce the notion of one of Dumbledore's most poignant phrases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermeneutic
Maybe Dumbledore imparted some Horcrux-tastic knowledge to Snape on the orders to convey it to Harry in some manner. This could involve Aberforth somehow. It could also be unnecessary given the possibility of Dumbledore himself leaving some info behind for Harry to uncover.
Horcrux-tastic! But yes, it would be interesting to see if Dumbledore did indeed share his knowledge and plans with Snape. I think it's pretty likely that Dumbledore laid out information and aid for Harry to find in his quest in the next book, and it would be fitting if Snape were to be the one overseeing that, so that could be how he would aid Harry. As you say, it makes a nice parallel between books 1 & 7.

EDIT: I'm going now but I'm looking forward to seeing where the discussion has gone in the morning. Congrats and great job to everyone I'm so glad this thread is settling in well.


__________________


Part of the Care Bear gang!

Last edited by leenielou; September 5th, 2006 at 1:17 am.
  #76  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:14 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4862 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermeneutic
I have no idea what Draco will be doing, and what his relationship with Snape is right now. Does Draco owe Snape a life debt?
I like the idea that Snape is still bound to protect Draco from harm by the Vow he took in Book 6. The second clause of the Vow, unlike the first, had no little 'while he is working on his mission'-type qualifier. Like Good Snape does not have enough problems already...

I don't think Draco owes a life debt, though it is highly unclear from the books and interviews what exactly causes one. Snape's own life was on the line as well. Of course, that is because he voluntarily took an Unbreakable Vow on Draco's behalf, so maybe I am wrong.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #77  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:20 am
Melaszka's Avatar
Melaszka  Female.gif Melaszka is offline
HighFunctioning Sociopath
 
Joined: 4566 days
Location: England
Age: 50
Posts: 3,294
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius
I like the idea that Snape is still bound to protect Draco from harm by the Vow he took in Book 6. The second clause of the Vow, unlike the first, had no little 'while he is working on his mission'-type qualifier. Like Good Snape does not have enough problems already....
That's an excellent point! But looking after Draco, who has so far tended to be all mouth and no trousers, will probably prove considerably easier than looking after Harry.


  #78  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:25 am
Hermeneutic  Undisclosed.gif Hermeneutic is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4470 days
Posts: 330
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melaszka
That's an excellent point! But looking after Draco, who has so far tended to be all mouth and no trousers, will probably prove considerably easier than looking after Harry.
That depends on what Voldy wants to do with him. If he stills wants to put the screws to the Malfoy family, Snape's in trouble.

I wonder if Bellatrix would tell/has told Voldy about Snape and Narcissa's UV? If she did/will, Snape's probably in even more trouble.

If it's just up to Snape, he has the job of convincing Draco that it's in his best interests to cool his heels. Narcissa would go along with this in a heartbeat. After seeing Dumbledore get killed after such a stressful year, I wonder how Draco would welcome that advice?

With patronus communication, Snape could rather easily get info to and from let's assume Aberforth and not be cut off. If nothing else it'd be nice to see what Snape's patronus is.


  #79  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:31 am
Olwen's Avatar
Olwen  Undisclosed.gif Olwen is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4863 days
Posts: 438
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

Quote:
Originally posted by leenielou. I just see Dumbledore, trusting Snape as he did, confiding in Snape about something, even if not the whole details of the horcruxes at least that he had found a way to defeat Voldemort. I guess if we get an inkling at the start of the new book that Voldemort knows that Harry knows about the horcruxes then Snape may not be good, but from this angle of him being good we know that Voldemort does not know thus far and so if Dumbledore did confide in Snape (which I think highly likely) then he's doing a good job keeping it quiet
In a roundabout way, Snape's loyalties may have been proven by the fact that as a member of the OotP, he almost certainly knows about Lupin's mission to the werewolves but despite his animosity towards Lupin, he hasn't betrayed him to Voldemort.


__________________
Icon by brontide
  #80  
Old September 5th, 2006, 1:35 am
ignisia's Avatar
ignisia  Female.gif ignisia is offline
Leader of the GLITTELUTION
 
Joined: 4558 days
Location: Sitting in a Tin Can
Age: 29
Posts: 4,418
Re: Assuming Snape is Good - What are the Implications for Book 7?

I really do think that Snape's Patronus is a Phoenix--at least now. A Patronus represents that which protects you from sorrow. Harry's memories of his parents fill his heart with love and shield him, so Harry patronus is Prongs.
Dumbledore was the only person to truly trust Snape. I'd say that's very important to Severus. In life, Dumbledore protected him from Azkaban and the criticisms of those who opposed Dumbledore's trust. And now in death, I'd say it's likely Dumbledore could protect him another way.

...Yeah, I'm getting pretty close to soppyville.


__________________
I am incapable of hating someone who, instead of using a spell to guard the Sorcerer's Stone, uses a logic puzzle.
I'm sorry.



VIVA LA GLITTELUTION
Looking for a home away from home?
Hogsmeade ~ Apparate.me
Avatar by SIP
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Divination Studies

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.