Questions about Thestrals

[forbesn]

ok here. is my ideas
1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.
--this? mabye because they are not supposed to be very well known


2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?
-- because he didn't SEE his parents die (i belive.) his mother sheilded him, he ust sorta probably saw her fall to the floor, where as he WATCHED cedric die.


3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?
--no, I belive not. all in all, have they ever left the castle after the year is over?


5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?
-- well they probably wouldn't show that on tv, because of little kids, and you probably would start seeing them IF you saw it. mabye not though.
why did you skip # 4?

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by forbesn

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts?

They are.

Fantastic Beasts, p. 42 Winged Horses M.O.M. Classification: XX-XXXX Winged horses exist worldwide. There are many different breeds, including the Abraxan (immensely powerful giant palominos), the Aethonan (chestnut, popular in Britain and Ireland), the Granian (grey and particularly fast) and the rare Thestral (black, possessed of the power of invisibility and considered unlucky by many wizards). As with the Hippogriff, the owner of a winged horse is required to perform a Disillusionment Charm upon it at regular intervals (see Introduction).

Nothing about death making them visible, though.

[cravensvt]

Harry did see his mom die, and he does remember it, in POA when he keeps reliving his worst memory that is what it is, so he has seen death that he remembers

[leenielou]

Originally Posted by forbesn

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?
-- because he didn't SEE his parents die (i belive.) his mother sheilded him, he ust sorta probably saw her fall to the floor, where as he WATCHED cedric die.

Originally Posted by cravensvt

Harry did see his mom die, and he does remember it, in POA when he keeps reliving his worst memory that is what it is, so he has seen death that he remembers

The official explanation from JK Rowling was that a death really has to "sink in" before you can see the Thestrals. Harry, being so young, won't have fully remembered his mother's death, nor would it have had the impact upon him that Cedric's did - therefore he could see the Thestrals after Cedric died.

[Pharaoh_Sauron]

1. One could assume the writer of "Magical Creatures" was told what thestrals are, and not actually seeing them.

2. I saw it as Harry didn't exactly witness the death of his parents; it is like we can't remember anything from when we were one year old.

3. I would think ghosts could see the thestrals, since they are near the same plan as they are... maybe?

5. I think it would have to be witnessed face to face. Harry and Luna both saw the death of someone.

6. Number 4 went to see why seven ate nine.

[Kassiah]

Originally Posted by leenielou

The official explanation from JK Rowling was that a death really has to "sink in" before you can see the Thestrals. Harry, being so young, won't have fully remembered his mother's death, nor would it have had the impact upon him that Cedric's did - therefore he could see the Thestrals after Cedric died.

That would explain why Harry couldn't see them at the end of GoF but could at the beginning of OotP. Cedric's death hadn't sunk in yet! I have been wondering about that.

[storyteller]

Is it enough to think that you have seen someone die in order to see Thestrals; or do they have to actually pass in order for you to see them? I started thinking about Albaforth's experiment with the goat and I thought he had made a horocrux and then I thought about Luna's mother doing an experiment as well. If she made a horocrux she would not really be dead. If Luna thought she saw her die though, would that be enough to make her see Thestrals?

[Firebert000]

Harry never said that he saw his parents die. He just saw the green light. Also, I am pretty sure that ghosts automatically see threstals because they are very close to death.

[Ronni_SL]

Originally Posted by leenielou

So, thinking about this darkness, I came to the conclusion that death and morbidness hangs around them quite thickly. As only those who have seen death can actually visualise them, there must be something about them that lends itself to death. I then remembered that Thestrals can go anywhere - say the place and they take you. Coupled with the death fact, I came to a most probably bizarre conclusion that perhaps Thestrals were originally bred to take those who have died onto "the other place". They would only be able to be seen by those who had died, therefore, those closely associated with death. They would be able to cross physical and mystical barriers to carry them off to the world of the dead, if such a one exists. Maybe over the years something happened to make those who had seen death see them too, or maybe they were able to all along.

This is a really interesting theory. In reading this thread I began to wonder what would be the purpose of a creature that was only visible to those who had seen death. Sure JKR mentions them to lead up to a way for the DA members to make it to the MOM but it's unlike her to mention something like this without a larger meaning to begin with.

[HP_hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Freezair

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

6. Where did number 4 go? :o

I don't have the time to read the entire thread, so sorry if I'm repeating things.
1. They are in FB&***t, under Winged Horses.
2. Well, JKR said Harry was in his crib... but he did see it. (That flash of green light he remembered). But I think remembering the moment of actual death is important. That probably does more to you than losing those persons already did.
3. JKR said death had to sink in. That's why Harry couldn't see Thestrals in the end of GoF. That's why I'd say Voldemort can't see them. Or most Death Eaters... you really have to realize the full implications of that person, dying. (Ok, so maybe you kill him/her... you still have to realize). I think your own death doesn't count. Ghosts are still "there" so they haven't witnessed anybody else dying. And they are still around themselves... does this make any sense?
5. I think they couldn't. It doesn't really sink in, does it? Not like... the actual thing. Right? I don't know... but I think it requires presence and realisation.
6. number 4 is invisible. you can see it when you've gone through the same that makes you see thestrals

[michelle543]

at the end of GoF, it says that the carraiges are still horseless. Shouldnt harry already see the thestrals?

[MadMagic]

Jo has answered this question by saying that you need to let the death sink in before thestrals become visible. It took the summer after Cedric's death for that to happen apparently.

[Quent]

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.
Ihave no idea honestly.

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?Yes,you have to remember the events and witnessing the deaths.Harry only remembers about the deaths are voices and a green flash of light.

3. What about ghosts? If they saw a death than they can see thestrals.

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die?yes,you have to be actually there watching them.

6. Where did number 4 go?

[stpdrckr420]

I don't think Harry actually "saw" his parents die. He certainly didn't see his father die; his mom was in the way. Voldemort stepped over his father's body to get to Lily, and then Harry. Maybe he was turned on his stomach or against the wall, or maybe he had his eyes closed. Maybe he passed out unconscious or fell asleep before his mom's heart actually stopped.

[sweet1gurl]

harry only saw the thestrals cause he witnessed the diggory boy died and he didnt really witness his parents die

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by stpdrckr420

I don't think Harry actually "saw" his parents die. He certainly didn't see his father die; his mom was in the way. Voldemort stepped over his father's body to get to Lily, and then Harry. Maybe he was turned on his stomach or against the wall, or maybe he had his eyes closed. Maybe he passed out unconscious or fell asleep before his mom's heart actually stopped.

That's right.

Harry didn't saw his parents die, because he lay in a crib and couldn't see the death of his parents from there. Jo mentioned it on her site.

[DenverWagner]

So how exactly do Thestrals work? It's implied that seeing them means the loss of inocence and an understanding of death, but how exactly is that brought about? It's stressed that you have to actually be an eye witness to death, but what really counts?

Does seeing an animal getting killed count?

And what about animals themselves - are they able to see the Thestrals? Or maybe only magical animals? If yes, are they born with this ability? If so, does that mean that they, unlike humans, always already know what death is and have a deeper understanding of their finitude or mortality?

Or do they also have to see someone (presumably an animal) dying? Any animal would do, including a human? What does that mean, then? Do animals also have the emotionally complex inner lives as we humans do? Do they also come to understand death and mortality as we do? Shouldn't all wizards be vegetarians, then?

Or is seeing Thestrals an exclusively human ability (other than the Thestrals themselves, I mean, I suppose they can see themselves and each other)?

[merrymarge]

I think only humans can see thestrals. As for an animal dying, I think it might work if you saw your pet rabbit die or any other that was close to you. But,if that were true, would Ron see thestrals because of Scabbers? he thought Scabbers had died, even though he didn't have proof, but I am not sure if he would have seen thestrals.