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The Timeline of Godric's Hollow



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 1st, 2006, 5:20 pm
BlackSerpent7  Undisclosed.gif BlackSerpent7 is offline
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The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

There has been a lot of disscussion concerning who was/wasn't at Godric's Hollow that night. What it seems hasn't been discussed is the timeline of events as they occured. We know the sequencing:
Voldemort kills James
Goes upstairs(assumes) Tells Lilly to stand aside
Voldemort kills Lily when she refuses to stand aside
Voldemort tries to kill harry and the curse backfires
Has anybody ever thought about how long this took? It seems like everybody assumes it was so fast but I don't think so. That doesn't mesh with Voldemorts version of events. We have Voldemorts version of events that James fought Bravely, excuse me for saying so but I don't think voldemort praises his oppenents that often. Voldemort also says "I got him in the end" That makes me think that a LONG time passed between James telling Lily to take Harry and run and Voldemort actually Killing James and Lily. If this is so I estimate that duel lasted for more than an hour and I would Really love to know what everyone thinks Lily was doing at that time? I doubt she was sheilding the crib the whole time. And I think an hour is enough time to undo any anti-apparition charms on the house. So excusing James immense bravery for a time What was Lily doing during the Battle at Godrics Hollow and Why didn't she run? She had enough Time for sure.



Last edited by Nicole; May 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pm. Reason: removed 'note to mods'
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  #2  
Old October 1st, 2006, 5:48 pm
DudleyDursley  Undisclosed.gif DudleyDursley is offline
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I think that an hour would be over exagerating. Maybe ten minutes, which makes me think that she could have been contacting somebody(Dumbledore)and that is how the information got out so quick.


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  #3  
Old October 1st, 2006, 10:30 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I think an hour is way too long. Voldemort's powerful; I don't think James would be able to last that long against him.

If that's James' voice that Harry hears when the dementors are near, he told her to take Harry and run. She apparently didn't. Was this because 1) she loved James and didn't want to abandon him or 2) someone (Wormtail?) was able to stop her from leaving the house or go after her and bring her back? She doesn't seem to have had a wand with her (at least she doesn't use it against Voldemort as far as we know).

If she didn't try to leave, I think that would indicate that she didn't know Harry was the real target.


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  #4  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 1:38 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSerpent7 View Post
I would Really love to know what everyone thinks Lily was doing at that time?
I think she was voluntarily ending the Fidelius Charm (I believe she was the caster) and sending a messenger-Patronus to Albus.

I agree with Shewoman and DudleyDursley--I really doubt James and Voldemort duelled for more than a few minutes (even ten minutes seems a bit long), though it went on long enough to 'destroy' various parts of the house when each missed their target.


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  #5  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 2:10 pm
Horcrux_Hater  Undisclosed.gif Horcrux_Hater is offline
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I one fracgment of my editorial which I hope you will one day see I go into great detail about this although I reinterpret Voldemort's "fought bravely" remark because I do believe she'd have got out of there if she could and taken Harry with her - Harry is clearly her highest priority.


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Old October 2nd, 2006, 5:56 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

We don't know that Lily could lift the spell. If she did, no help seems to have come. It is an interesting idea.


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  #7  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 6:09 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

These are good questions. I hadn't given much thought to what V had said about James fighting bravely. This implies some time, don't think a whole hour but more than a few seconds. A theory I have posted on the cloak thread is that James was not in the house which would answer the Question of why Lily would stand around and wait until V finished off James. If he were there, she most definetely did something but if he were elsewhere, she wouldn't have known he was being killed and V was coming.....


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Old October 2nd, 2006, 6:16 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

All very good questions.

* If she told someone where they were.. why didn't they just apparate into the room? I mean if she let the secret out.. than shouldn't someone of been able to get there?

* If Dumbledore heard the prophecy and told them to hide..then shouldn't Lily have left? She KNEW he was after Harry, right? Why would she stay?

* I dont quite know about an HOUR.. but I doubt it was as fast as 10 minutes. James was a good wizard. And the "in the end" comment makes me think that he put up a good fight...

* The Ancient magic that saved Harry (when Lily sacrificed herself from him) makes me wonder what OTHER types of ancient magic we're missing..


  #9  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 6:18 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
If she didn't try to leave, I think that would indicate that she didn't know Harry was the real target.
The reason they were in hiding is the prophecy, so they did know that the target was Harry.
That means something must have hindered Lily to leave, but I don't think it was Wormtail. If he'd been there, why haden't he transformed to the rat when he saw, that Voldy was finished of?


  #10  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 6:42 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

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Originally Posted by giwdeh View Post
The reason they were in hiding is the prophecy, so they did know that the target was Harry.
That means something must have hindered Lily to leave, but I don't think it was Wormtail. If he'd been there, why haden't he transformed to the rat when he saw, that Voldy was finished of?
Do we know for sure that James and Lily knew Harry was the object of the prophecy? I've started getting confused between what is canon and what is speculation that I've read on boards!


  #11  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 7:12 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

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Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
If that's James' voice that Harry hears when the dementors are near, he told her to take Harry and run. She apparently didn't. Was this because 1) she loved James and didn't want to abandon him or 2) someone (Wormtail?) was able to stop her from leaving the house or go after her and bring her back? She doesn't seem to have had a wand with her (at least she doesn't use it against Voldemort as far as we know).
Lily really seems to have been wandless at the time. As far as we know, she didn't join James in fighting Voldemort, which I think she would have if she didn't want to abandon him. But she also didn't speed up her escape with magic, something like: 'Accio Broomstick', fly up, grab Harry and escape through the window.

btw: Do you think Jo would answer the question where James' and Lily's wands are right now? Or is this another part of the mystery?


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  #12  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:08 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Maybe when Voldemort told Harry that James fought bravely, he was trying to trick Harry into letting down his guard? But very nice! I hadn't caught that.

About why Lily didn't just Disapparate, try this thread.
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=96073
No ideas on why she didn't use magic in another way, except that maybe there were other spells guarding the house that she didn't have time to get through. Or maybe she just couldn't get past Voldemort.

By the way...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ambulance View Post
The Ancient magic that saved Harry (when Lily sacrificed herself from him) makes me wonder what OTHER types of ancient magic we're missing..
Good point!


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  #13  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:18 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I think I had always assumed that it was quick just because of the movies, but you have a very good point. We really don't know how long it was. I think it is very possible that someone else was in the house and holding Lily in preparation of her capture. We know that Voldemort did not want Lily killed, for a multidude of reasons saved for another thread. Of course the thought of someone else being in the room completely ruins the image of her standing infront of Harry to protect him.


  #14  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 5:23 am
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I donít think it lasted long 15 minutes. Any longer , Lily would t have had time to escape via a back entrance , contact help, lift the charm. She loved James but I donít think she would willing stay there because her instincts would be to save her child. The Potters went into hiding because of the Prophecy so they must have known about it and known Harry was who he was after. I'm also sure that Lily knew James wouldnt be able to defat Voldmort, James taking him on was merely a chance to allow his wife and child to flee to saftey which did not happen.


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Old October 3rd, 2006, 3:10 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

We don't have any canon as to whether the Potters knew the Prophecy or not. Given that Dumbledore kept it a secret for so long, I'm willing to believe they didn't know. As they had already defied Voldemort three times before Harry was born, they could certainly have believed THAT was why they were going into hiding. If Lily knew that Harry was actually the target and if she were capable of leaving (not being held by Wormtail, for instance), I can't see why she wouldn't go.

Momeve, If James wasn't in the house, where and when was he killed? In Goblet's Priori Incantatem scene, nothing comes from V's wand between James and Lily--so he didn't cast a spell between killing them.

Why doesn't she have her wand? Did someone take it from her? Remember that Ollivander tells Harry in Stone that Lily got her "first wand" there--does that imply that she had another one? Could that be relevant?


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 5:27 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
We don't have any canon as to whether the Potters knew the Prophecy or not. Given that Dumbledore kept it a secret for so long, I'm willing to believe they didn't know. As they had already defied Voldemort three times before Harry was born, they could certainly have believed THAT was why they were going into hiding. If Lily knew that Harry was actually the target and if she were capable of leaving (not being held by Wormtail, for instance), I can't see why she wouldn't go.
Exactly.. it makes me wonder if they were just told to hide and then it would all be sorted out. Which also makes me wonder why was there no back up plan? I know they didnt' expect Peter to tell on them and betray them... but why wasn't there something to back it all up.. Why didn't Lily leave? Why was she stuck in the room? Fear? He said she was brave didn't he? Why did they hide all of them in the same place? Wouldn't it have been better to split them up and hide them? And use three separate secret keepers and make sure they didn't know who was at which hiding spot.. I just feel like it could have been prevented if someone had pondered the "what ifs" a little better.


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Old October 3rd, 2006, 8:45 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Here's something I've been trying to figure out:

Why in the Priori Incantatem (GOF) does James come out of the wand before Lily? I was under the impression that James was killed first, and the echoes of prior spells were coming out in reverse order. Can anyone explain?


  #18  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 8:52 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by isalu View Post
Here's something I've been trying to figure out:

Why in the Priori Incantatem (GOF) does James come out of the wand before Lily? I was under the impression that James was killed first, and the echoes of prior spells were coming out in reverse order. Can anyone explain?
I believe Jo has said that was a mistake. Was it corrected in later editions? [I'm certain this has been addressed elsewhere on this board.]


  #19  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 9:02 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

I posted this as part of a post on another thread. But I think it is also relevant to the topic of this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quidagis View Post
PoA, The Patronus
White fog obscured his senses ... big, blurred shapes were moving around him ... then came a new voice, a man's voice, shouting, panicking -
'Lily, take Harry and go! It's him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off -'
The sounds of someone stumbling from a room - a door bursting open - a cackle of high-pitched laughter -

This is Harry's earliest recollection of the night. If the big, blurred shapes moving around are part of the memory, they could refer to more than one adult person Harry saw from his crib. As Harry is short-sighted, he couldn't make them out distinctly. Or maybe they were not near enough.

Both the warning and the sound of someone stumbling from a room come before the door burst open. Which in turn comes before the cackle of high-pitched laughter. There isn't any shouting or loud bangs in between the bursting door and the laughter. I think this means that Voldemort finished the man who confronted him (most likely James) fairly quickly. Maybe even with the first spell, if he managed to wrong-foot him.

From the sequence of events I'd assume that it was James, that he was inside the house, near the nursery together with Lily. He had some means to find out that Voldemort was approaching (a Foe-Glass?) and ran out to meet Voldemort in order to give Lily&Harry time to make a run for it. There are a couple of reasons why Lily might not have been able to manage to escape. If she first tried disapparating, then the Floo network, and both were disabled before the attack, she didn't have many means of escape left. She could climb out of the window, create a Portkey or ride a broomstick. Voldemort is able to mess up broomsticks as well, and we don't know for sure whether Portkeys aren't covered with Anti-Apparition jinxes. I think they are. So she really was trapped as soon as James was dead.


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Last edited by Quidagis; October 3rd, 2006 at 9:44 pm.
  #20  
Old October 3rd, 2006, 9:25 pm
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Re: The Timeline of Godric's Hollow

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Originally Posted by confutatis View Post
I believe Jo has said that was a mistake. Was it corrected in later editions? [I'm certain this has been addressed elsewhere on this board.]
Yes, in later editions, Lily comes out of the wand first.


 
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