HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

[Apheka]

After another quick look, I noticed something I hadn't before. Harry's surprise at being in the RoR, so if he didn't think it up, how did Ginny know about the room?

[KlausBaudelaire]

Well, she was in the D.A. after all, she remembered where the RoR was and the way it worked.
What I didn't like though, is the aftermath of the kiss, they behave like nothing ever happened; it's another Orphanage Memory, things just sort of...happen, and are never developed later.

[Apheka]

Originally Posted by KlausBaudelaire

Well, she was in the D.A. after all, she remembered where the RoR was and the way it worked.
What I didn't like though, is the aftermath of the kiss, they behave like nothing ever happened; it's another Orphanage Memory, things just sort of...happen, and are never developed later.

Of course, thank you. How could I have forgotten Dumbledore's Army in the RoR which are my favourite scenes from OotP?
I agree with the 'Orphanage Memory' thing. I know she told Harry she could remain hidden up there but I missed seeing them take stolen times together and Ron giving Harry 'permission' to be with her.

[jan74]

Things I like about this chapter:

- The glum look on the faces of the teens as they are sitting at Harry's side.

- Harry's view of the Room of the Requirement after the Kiss was great. It showed very clearly how he felt, both the colours and the view of the room are different from earlier parts of the scene

- The bird getting out of the Vanishing Cabinet, an effective way of showing Draco's progress

- Ron's line about Harry & Ginny and Harry's distracted reaction to it. Ron's line fits perfectly into the rest of the film and suits Ron's character (both from the film and the book btw). It's so typical of Ron to show this kind of lack of tact, or create awkward situations, just like when he's seating himself between Harry & Ginny in the Burrow.

I have a rather mixed feeling about how Ginny and Harry's relationship is handled in the film as a whole and with regards to the setup for the kiss in this scene. But most of the blame lies with the actors. To me it felt like Radcliffe and Wright went into the film as if they were unprepared for the increased intimacy between them. It's obvious that they, and Radcliffe most of all, have problems relating to each other when they are the main focus of the scene.

On the other hand I never felt that Harry and Ginny's relationship was very interesting in the book either, so I think the film makers were right to go more deeply into the relationship between Hermione and Ron. Ginny is a likeable character with some obvious defining characteristics, but apart from that she's not drawn in much detail and you can fill in most of the blanks yourself.

[Noldus]

Originally Posted by yoshi2542

Track 20 'When Ginny Kissed Harry' plays over the scene in the RoR.
There's various props from previous films scattered about the Room, some of the pyramidal instruments from the cabinets in Dumbledore's office in GOF, a few of Moodys lens things from GOF and some of the orrery type things from the Patronus lesson in POA. I'm sure there are others in there.

I also noticed the harp from PS. A close-up of the harp playing Hooper's track would have been a nice touch, if only to get rid of the tedious melodramatic mood of the scene...

On the other hand, I guess this scene ties in nicely with the theme of trust and loyalty the movie touches on, but only scratches the surface of.

[yoshi2542]

Previous Chapter Posts:
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
Chapter 6
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12
Chapter 13
Chapter 14
Chapter 15
Chapter 16
Chapter 17
Chapter 18
Chapter 19
Chapter 20
Chapter 21

Apologies for the delay in posting this chapter.

There isn't really much meat here, the chapter is more or less a long transition to Hagrid's Hut that survives on the effects of the luck potion. The moment when Harry leaves the common room probably got the biggest laugh when I saw the movie at the cinema, the rest of Radcliffe's 'lucky' acting was a little obnoxious really. It didn't so much project confidence as it did arrogance. I do like the part with Slughorn stealing the leaves, and while the part with Aragog would have meant precisely zilch to most people in the audience, the awkward funereal vibe was captured well (I do like Slughorn's clumsy treatment of the corpse when he collects the venom). That's it really. You could probably cut this whole Aragog scene out and go straight to the three of them drinking in the hut, a sort of comedic fast cut from Harry inviting Slughorn to the three of them totally sozzled.

Any other business:

• Track 17 'Farewell Aragog' plays over the funeral scene.
• Fang appears once again.
• Several callbacks to CoS with the greenhouse and spider stuff.
• The Hogwarts landscape seems ultra bland this time around. The path to Hagrid's as well as some of the details like the stone circle seem to have vanished. It's just grass and nothing else.

[CrazyMuggle]

"Then by all means come along sir!" I love Radcliffe throughout this chapter and his various humorous quotes (highlighted by his delivery): "Hi!" "...I have a feeling it's the place to be tonight, know what I mean?" "I should've announced myself, coughed, cleared my throat" "Don't forget the pincers."

I love the music that plays during the funeral (an Irish sort of tune).

[jan74]

This chapter relies on the comedy and I loved it. Although I rather like Harry's way of attracting Slughorn's attention, the scene by no means exclusively rests on Radcliffe's performance, since both Broadbent and Coltrane do their parts wonderfully. Broadbent's exaggerated stress on the wowels in his funeral speech as well as his general clumsiness around the corpse is hilarious.

I understand that this chapter doesn't do much for those who don't like the comedy, but I don't see why getting the references to Chamber of Secrets should be crucial for enjoying or getting the gist of the scene. Understanding the references to CoS only comes as a bonus IMO.

There isn't a lot of meat here, but the most important point was Slughorn's two references about collecting things only for academic purposes, a point which is echoed shortly after in the memory with Tom Riddle. I find that despite the fact that some things could have been cut, Yates, unlike the other directors, always has some parts and points in every single chapter that ties in well with the themes/storyline of the film as a whole.

[Apheka]

I must admit this chapter didn't do much for me, it seemed clumsy. It did show up Slughorn's personality and while the tale of the flower and the fish was beautiful, it seemed to be in the wrong place although the flow from comedy to pathos was done well.

[ThaiHPFan]

When I saw it, the funeral scene effectively made everyone in the theatre laughed. You can see the funny awkwardness of the scene quite clearly: Hagrid grieving over a giant creepy spider, Slughorn providing a grand speech right after snapping out Aragog's fang, and Harry trying to make sad face throughout the whole thing although the potion made him extra energetic. All these mixed together and accompanied by an intentionally sad score create a hilarious effect IMO. I think Yates translated this part from the book perfectly. The actors' interactions and the score really go well with the comedic nature of the scene.

I also like the sepia-color tone they use for the ground. It looks a little depressing but that's the style I personally love (the stone circle is still there I think. It's moved from the bridge entrance to somewhere near the forest since OOTP. You can see it in OOTP right before the Thestral scene).

[Noldus]

The plot device with the luck potion is IMO superfluous and ruins what otherwise would have been a great character moment for Harry. I missed a moment in the film where Harry realizes he ought to take the mission seriously and understands he can't rely on cheating like using the HBP book in order to succeed in getting the memory out of Slughorn. The theme of hard vs. easy choices from the book is completely disregarded (and so is the importance of the title) in favour of yet another comical scene which I didn't find that funny. True, there were some great lines and references to prior movies, there's good chemistry between the actors and the irony of the funeral is captured perfectly, but I don't think these good things about the chapter make up for the omission of character development for Harry.

The felix felicis thing kind of worked in the book because Hermione implied that Harry had it in him all the time and was capable of convincing Slughorn without the potion. Moreover, in the book one could sense that Harry was growing and getting a lot more confident throughout the year and accepted on his own that he indeed is the Chosen one which he earlier doubted. In Yates' interpretation of this universe Harry is the Chosen One because of fate and he also has no choice whatsoever and the future is determined by luck. That's my take on this scene.

Although Harry saying "hiii" to someone was a clever way to tell the audience he is "high" and the greenhouse confirmed this seconds later, I think the drug reference was far too obvious. The filmmakers should preferably send out another message which is that hard work, ambitions, singleness of purpose etc. will take you far in life. Not drugs.

[jan74]

Originally Posted by Noldus

The felix felicis thing kind of worked in the book because Hermione implied that Harry had it in him all the time and was capable of convincing Slughorn without the potion. Moreover, in the book one could sense that Harry was growing and getting a lot more confident throughout the year and accepted on his own that he indeed is the Chosen one which he earlier doubted. In Yates' interpretation of this universe Harry is the Chosen One because of fate and he also has no choice whatsoever and the future is determined by luck. That's my take on this scene..

Well, you certainly offer a more detailed criticism of the use of the luck potion in the film. I don't clearly understand how you come to the conclusion that Harry sees himself as the Chosen One because of fate and so forth in the film. The film simply doesn't deliberate on this point as far as I can see. And isn't the hard choice for Harry rather to decide to trust Dumbledore - in the matter of Snape and on the tower - as well as agreeing to make Dumbledore drink a harmful potion, not in choosing to accept on his own that he is the Chosen One?

I think Harry grows a lot in this film in terms of understanding the importance of dealing with people who try to manipulate him and to be able to influence others to achieve his goals. In the book he is more childish and stubborn, deciding for most of the time to trust only his own instincts and pursue his own goals.

[KlausBaudelaire]

Noldus I agree, for me the Felix Felicis plot could have ended with Quidditch, period.
But I have a problem with every potion J.K. Rowling created, so it's just me maybe.

[Jonny7003]

I really love this scene. The music fits brilliantly and I am so glad they showed Aragog again. A great throwback to COS. It gives the series a better connection and that is something I have noticed with Yates' films - he likes including little details from previous films here and there, such as the chess pieces from PS, Sword of Gryffindor and the Sorting Hat, Flitwick's Choir etc...

I love the landscape shots in this scene. We see Aragog, Fang, Hagrid and Harry, with the Hogwarts Castle in the background. It's beautiful. And I adore Broadbent's acting. It's very comical, for the way he drags his words out is hilarious. He captures the bumbling mad old teacher personality perfectly. Coltrane's Hagrid is always spot on and Harry on Felix is wonderful to watch too. I just can't fault this scene.

[Noldus]

Originally Posted by jan74

Well, you certainly offer a more detailed criticism of the use of the luck potion in the film. I don't clearly understand how you come to the conclusion that Harry sees himself as the Chosen One because of fate and so forth in the film. The film simply doesn't deliberate on this point as far as I can see.

Yates is all for subtlety and therefore it's important to look after the few clues/signs he offers and interpret those closely. To me it seems like Harry is the Chosen One because the movie needs one and nothing more, Harry certainly doesn't seem too bothered with it. It's only natural to think it's a result of destiny if you haven't read the book. It's never explained in the films why Voldemort marked Harry as his equal in the first place and the perfect time for Dumbledore to do so would have been in their first private lesson after the Burrow attack. I know Dumbledore's intention was to manipulate Harry, but if you take it at face-value he actually says that he has no choice and must not fail because otherwise "we leave the fate of our world to chance" which further confirms my theory; it's already left to chance with Yates behind it.

Originally Posted by jan74

And isn't the hard choice for Harry rather to decide to trust Dumbledore - in the matter of Snape and on the tower - as well as agreeing to make Dumbledore drink a harmful potion, not in choosing to accept on his own that he is the Chosen One?.

That's right, albeit extremely underpowered in this adaptation. Anyway, my point was that the hard choice for Harry with regards to his mission is to face the difficulties and trust himself and his plan and believe in his own abilities while the easy one is to rely on an old potions book and think that will get him what he wants.

Originally Posted by jan74

I think Harry grows a lot in this film in terms of understanding the importance of dealing with people who try to manipulate him and to be able to influence others to achieve his goals. In the book he is more childish and stubborn, deciding for most of the time to trust only his own instincts and pursue his own goals.

The film removed some of his traits and weaknesses and therefore he comes across as stiff and boring if you ask me.

[Apheka]

I agree with you Noldus, Harry does seem a bit boring because a lot of his angry scenes were left out especially when he finds out about Snape from Trelawny and lets loose in Dumbledore's office. He didn't seem to have any feelings in the film when in the book he had raging teen hormones, hate towards Snape, suspicions about Malfoy and dealing with the falling out of his two best friends not to mention what he learns about Voldemorte and horcruxes.

[FleurDeLaPointe]

Just a quote from my review from a long time ago:

This leads into a huge complaint about the inclusion of a Aragog funeral and the lack of a Dumbledore one. Those who complain over it are totally missing the point. Aragog's funeral isn't showing the death of the huge pinchered spider. That whole comedic bit was to symbolically put into the comedy of this installment into the grave. Think about it, aside from the small discussion between Slughorn and Dumbledore aftewards which had comedy, was superceded by incredible seriousness of Lily's death and Dumbledore's orders to Harry respectively. This was probably more intentional than what I said at the beginning of this review which shows that Yates is still competent [...]

Also Felix Felicis was horrendously handled. Should have been one shot of glorious meanderings and repercussions, but instead it looked like Radcliffe was channeling his Extras comedy chops (pg 13'd of course) than participating in an entertaining bit that should have been showing off the wonders of the camera and film, not the funny ability of actors. Felix Feliiecis showed probably no difference between being almost omniscient in finding one's luck and being drunk. Disappointing.

[yoshi2542]

Previous Chapter Posts:
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
Chapter 6
Chapter 7
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12
Chapter 13
Chapter 14
Chapter 15
Chapter 16
Chapter 17
Chapter 18
Chapter 19
Chapter 20
Chapter 21
Chapter 22

At last we get to a chapter where Harry is actually the character who dictates the flow of events, though his efforts are sadly undermined by the niggling presence of the luck potion. It's such a cheap device and what's more annoying is that it is totally unnecessary. The coincidence of Harry meeting Slughorn by the greenhouse is hardly one that needed explaining away, and all the potion does is devalue Harry's words to Slughorn. This is probably one of two scenes in the movie where Harry actually moves the story forwards himself (the other being when he lets Snape ascend the tower) but it would have been so much better without the luck potion reminding us throughout that 'a wizard did it'. I think over the years the audience has bought into Harry as a character to a degree that he doesn't need a crutch like that to affect things for himself. It's a great shame, because I think aside from the noxious odour of the Felix Felicis hanging over the scene it is actually very, very good.

The fish idea was a good one and helped to flesh out Slughorn's attachment to Lily. The dialogue all works well and the performances are all solid, Broadbent in particular manages to make Slughorn look pathetic but also makes us pity him a little. The chapter does feel a little strange in that this is more or less the last scene in the second act of the movie, Harry finally accomplishes the task set by Dumbledore, but seeing as how the fake memory was only introduced 4 or 5 chapters ago it feel a little limp. It doesn't feel like this is something the whole movie has been building towards and thus it feels rather anticlimactic when we get the close up of Slughorn putting the memory in the vial. Personally I think they should have introduced the Slughorn memory much earlier, around the time Yates did the (pointless) orphanage memory.


Any other business:

• Track 21 'Slughorn's Confession' plays over the scene.

[NumberEight]

Originally Posted by yoshi2542

Personally I think they should have introduced the Slughorn memory much earlier, around the time Yates did the (pointless) orphanage memory.

Except, you know, it establishes that Voldemort likes to keep certain objects close to him, which he eventually does when he creates Horcruxes. The closeups during that memory are important: the diary, the seven stones, the image of the rocky cave where one Horcrux is located. The latter telling the audience how Dumbledore knew where to go to find the Horcrux.

[jan74]

Personally I never think one second about luck potion when I see this scene. Is there anything in the scene that suggests the effect of the luck potion?

This is just one of several scenes that shows how Yates distinguishes himself from the other directors. He shows IMO much more independence in how he interprets his material, by altering the words used, by adding a few elements of his own to increase the characterization and the emotional impact. I loved the inclusion of the memory of the fish to show Slughorn's sentimental attachment to Lily. Harry's dialogue with Slughorn here is also very powerful and effective.

There are several storylines in the film, each with their own climax or resolution. Personally I felt that even if the film hadn't been building towards this scene all of the time, the film clearly introduces that there's something intriguing about Slughorn right from the start and builds on this throughout the film, parts of it showing his bent for making connections with and "connecting" powerful people, parts of it focusing on his relation to Harry and Tom Riddle.