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  #21  
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:04 am
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Re: Why wasn't the Horcrux in Harry destroyed in COS?

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Originally Posted by myndon View Post
Wasn't it also supposed to be important that Voldemort himself be the one who destroyed Harry? (I'm trying to remember what Dumbledore told Snape in mentioning that Harry must die, and Voldemort had to be the one to do it...).

Technically, it wasn't Voldemort, but the basilisk that would have killed Harry...
I agree with you here. I think it was important that Voldemort, and he alone, be the one to destroy the horcrux.

DH Chapter 33 The Prince's Tale pg. 686
"And Voldemort himself must do it, Severus. That is essential."

Dumbledore speaking, in case you were not sure.

I believe the reason the basilisk venom did not have an effect upon the horcrux was because it was interwoven with Harry's own soul. As a result of this fact, I do not believe the basilisk venom could have destroyed this piece of Voldemort's soul. Harry's own soul protected its very existence. In some regards, I believe that Harry's soul acted almost like the casing for the horcrux.

Being so, I believe that Voldemort had to be responsible for the destruction of the horcrux because it was his own soul. He was, essentially, the master of it and thus, he was the only one with the power to decide to destroy it while allowing Harry to live. I'm not sure if I can verbalize what I mean... I think that, by Voldemort sending the AK curse at his own soul, that part of the soul believed that its master wished to destroy it and thus, allowed him to do so.

Although I'm still uncertain as to whether Harry truly died (and I lean toward no, he didn't), I believe only Voldemort could have killed the horcrux within Harry. I don't think it was necessary for Harry to remain alive for the horcrux to remain housed in his body. Therefore, had he been killed by another I don't think the horcrux would have suffered damage. I believe that Voldemort, as I stated above, was the only one who could direct his soul to die while Harry was able to remain alive.

Does that make any sense? Probably not but I tried.


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  #22  
Old October 3rd, 2007, 10:54 pm
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Can the Avada Kedavra Curse destroy a Horcrux?

In a piece of fan fiction, I read a scene where Harry destroys the locket by using the Avada Kedavra Curse. Is it possible?

The AK Curse, aka Killing Curse, kills flesh-and-bone living things. Would it destroy a piece of soul in an inanimate object?

Just wondering...

Sorry if the question's been asked and answered before.


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  #23  
Old October 4th, 2007, 1:14 am
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Re: Can the Avada Kedavra Curse destroy a Horcrux?

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
In a piece of fan fiction, I read a scene where Harry destroys the locket by using the Avada Kedavra Curse. Is it possible?

The AK Curse, aka Killing Curse, kills flesh-and-bone living things. Would it destroy a piece of soul in an inanimate object?

Just wondering...

Sorry if the question's been asked and answered before.
Consensus is that it would work, but be very dangerous. It would bounce off the inanimate object and could hit anyone around. Remember the house at Godric's Hollow was almost totally destroyed by the force of the AK.

FGM


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  #24  
Old October 4th, 2007, 2:46 am
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

I think it was because the horcrux was stuck to harry's soul, not his body. It must go to the afterlife to be separated I suppose.


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  #25  
Old October 4th, 2007, 4:44 am
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Re: Can the Avada Kedavra Curse destroy a Horcrux?

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Originally Posted by Fairygdmther View Post
Consensus is that it would work, but be very dangerous. It would bounce off the inanimate object and could hit anyone around. Remember the house at Godric's Hollow was almost totally destroyed by the force of the AK.

FGM
Thank you for that clarification, but my question really has to do with, can a curse meant to kill a living being destroy part of a soul? A soul isn't really supposed to die, does it? In this case, all parts of V.'s soul end up in the "creature at King's Cross". That's what's getting me confused. What exactly happens to those pieces of soul in the Horcruxes? Is the AK Curse powerful enough to do what the Sword, or the Basilisk fangs, did? I guess it is...


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  #26  
Old October 4th, 2007, 5:06 am
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

Well, the AK curse aimed at Harry got rid of the horcrux in him, but it appeared to affect Voldemort when he cast it. Whether that was the effect of getting rid of a part of his own soul I can't say. But I agree with those who say Harry had to be killed for the horcrux soul to be released, which is why the basilisk bite didn't do it.

Further thought - would an AK curse have killed Nagini and destroyed the soul piece in her? Harry just asked Neville to kill the snake - he didn't specify how. It was chance that brought Neville the sword to use. I'd have supposed a killing curse would have worked just as well. Do you think it would have penetrated her protective bubble though? Or would it have rebounded?


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  #27  
Old October 4th, 2007, 5:45 am
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
(1) Well, the AK curse aimed at Harry got rid of the horcrux in him, but it appeared to affect Voldemort when he cast it. Whether that was the effect of getting rid of a part of his own soul I can't say. But I agree with those who say Harry had to be killed for the horcrux soul to be released, which is why the basilisk bite didn't do it.

(2) Further thought - would an AK curse have killed Nagini and destroyed the soul piece in her? Harry just asked Neville to kill the snake - he didn't specify how. It was chance that brought Neville the sword to use. I'd have supposed a killing curse would have worked just as well. Do you think it would have penetrated her protective bubble though? Or would it have rebounded?
(1) Good point, thank you, about the curse "releasing" the bit of soul in Harry. But the basilisk bite "didn't do it" because Fawkes' tears healed Harry. He was dying otherwise.

(2) Nagini wasn't in her protective bubble any more. Voldemort thought he had won, he thought Harry was dead and gone, he took the bubble off Nagini. I don't think it was "chance" that brought the Sword to Neville, I think it was meant to be. V. hoisted by his own petard, so to speak, he put the Hat on Neville, and Neville drew the Sword out of the Hat. As to whether an AK curse would have killed Nagini, my opinion is that it probably would have, she was a living being. It was the AK destroying the bit of soul in an inanimate object that had me starting to ask questions.

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Originally Posted by FantasyWriter View Post
If basilisk venom can destroy a Horcrux then why wasn't the Horcrux inside of Harry destroyed when he was stabbed in the arm by a Basilisk tooth in COS?
Because Harry didn't die, Fawkes' tears having healed him (see above). The Horcrux would have been destroyed if Harry had died. Tom Riddle would unwittingly have destroyed one of his Horcruxes.


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  #28  
Old October 4th, 2007, 6:06 am
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

OK, so we know that some of Harry's talents came from the horcrux inside him, so maybe this is a wild idea, does anyone think that maybe he was living partly of of it?
wow, weird thought?!


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  #29  
Old October 4th, 2007, 2:19 pm
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
(2) Nagini wasn't in her protective bubble any more. Voldemort thought he had won, he thought Harry was dead and gone, he took the bubble off Nagini. I don't think it was "chance" that brought the Sword to Neville, I think it was meant to be. V. hoisted by his own petard, so to speak, he put the Hat on Neville, and Neville drew the Sword out of the Hat. As to whether an AK curse would have killed Nagini, my opinion is that it probably would have, she was a living being. It was the AK destroying the bit of soul in an inanimate object that had me starting to ask questions.
Well, yes I also think it was destiny that brought the sword to Neville! What I meant was that he didn't go looking for the sword thinking it was the only tool he could use. I agree that an AK can't destroy an inanimate object - you can't kill something that isn't alive. And it's the horcrux ie the casing, that has to be destroyed for the soul piece to be released to whatever hereafter it is due. (Kings Cross Station by the look of it!)

Quote:
Because Harry didn't die, Fawkes' tears having healed him (see above). The Horcrux would have been destroyed if Harry had died. Tom Riddle would unwittingly have destroyed one of his Horcruxes.
Which makes me wonder if Diarymort knew he had made a horcrux or that the diary was one. I presume Voldy put the memory of himself into the diary before he horcruxed it, in which case presumably Tom didn't know. Had his "16 year old self" already done the horcrux research? And did it know what Voldy intended doing?

I'm also getting a bit confused about what the horcrux is. Is it the soul piece or the casing? I thought the latter, but in talking about destroying horcruxes we are talking about destroying the soul piece, which isn't the same thing.


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  #30  
Old November 1st, 2007, 11:11 pm
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

JKR Says Harry Potter was NOT a Horcrux

Just an FYI for this thread.

According to Leaky Cauldron staff members that met JKR in NYC on her Open Book Tour in October '07 Harry Potter was NOT a Horcrux. There is no transcript, because the LC members met JKR personally "back stage" w/o recording it.

But I do have the 1+ minute audio excerpt from the Leaky Cauldron discussion. Yay! (Fair use excerpt for non-commercial purpose.)

Click Link to Listen Here:

Harry Potter was NOT a Horcrux

(If the link does not work above to play it directly, then right-click (click right mouse button) on the link here: Harry Potter was NOT a Horcrux and choose open or save the audio file to your computer. Then play it from your player and/or computer. The file name is: HarryNotAHorcrux.mp3)


The full 54 minute PotterCast #122 is here:

PotterCast #122


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  #31  
Old November 1st, 2007, 11:18 pm
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

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Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Well, the AK curse aimed at Harry got rid of the horcrux in him, but it appeared to affect Voldemort when he cast it. Whether that was the effect of getting rid of a part of his own soul I can't say. But I agree with those who say Harry had to be killed for the horcrux soul to be released, which is why the basilisk bite didn't do it.

Further thought - would an AK curse have killed Nagini and destroyed the soul piece in her? Harry just asked Neville to kill the snake - he didn't specify how. It was chance that brought Neville the sword to use. I'd have supposed a killing curse would have worked just as well. Do you think it would have penetrated her protective bubble though? Or would it have rebounded?
i think that if Harry had not been hit with AK, Harry may have become bodiless or at least it would be harder to heal.


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  #32  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 12:46 am
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Re: Destruction of a horcrux

J.K. Rowling at Carnegie Hall, Oct. 19, 2007
Q: When Harry was stabbed by a basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, since he was a Horcrux shouldn't it have been destroyed then?

JKR: I have been asked that a lot. Harry was exceptionally fortunate in that he had Fawkes. So before he could be destroyed without repair, which is what is necessary to destroy a horcrux, he was mended. However, I made sure that Fawkes wasn't around the second time a Horcrux got stabbed by a basilisk fang, so the poison did its work and it was irreparable within a short period of time.... I established early in the book, Hermione says that you destroy a Horcrux by using something so powerful that there's no remedy. But she does say there is a remedy for basilisk poison but of course it has to be administered immediately and when they stab the cup later - boy I'm really blowing this for anyone who hasn't finished the book - there's Fawkes, is my answer. And thank you for giving me a chance to say that because people have argued that quite a lot.


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  #33  
Old August 12th, 2009, 5:35 pm
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Dementors and Horcruxes

Has anybody given any thought to what would happen if somebody who had created a horcrux was subjected to the Dementor's Kiss?

They would only have half of their soul inside to suck out so what would be the result?


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  #34  
Old August 12th, 2009, 8:52 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

So, what you are saying is... You make the Dementor a Horcrux?

As far as I know... Dementors are soulless creatures, and giving them half a soul would... kill/destroy them.
I have no idea how a Dementor's Kiss works, but if I am right, such a Kiss equals sucking one's soul out, and it disappears in the Dementor, like what happens with humans and the food we eat. So the creator would just lose half.

I'm pretty sure I am not right on this, but it's how I think it works.


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  #35  
Old August 12th, 2009, 9:08 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

Hmm...well it would probably be just like dying with a Hocrux. The Dementor takes the part of the soul that still resides in the body and the part in the Horcrux lives on unharmed.


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  #36  
Old August 12th, 2009, 9:18 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

Maybe you wouldn't be as...appetizing? to the dementors if you only had part of a soul. They'd much rather have a whole soul? Or they can't really sense you? You'd be a little misty?


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  #37  
Old August 12th, 2009, 9:41 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

Hmmm, that's a good point persian85033. The Dementors sense people through their souls but they thrive off of despair caused by the progressive removal of ones happy memories until there's nothing left. So perhaps if your level of despair is high enough, it will seem the same to a Dementor. But will the mangled soul be more appetizing because of its plight? Or would they not want it because it's been damaged (kinda like pizza dropped on the floor)? I'm not really sure about that...anyone else?


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  #38  
Old August 12th, 2009, 10:08 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

When Voldemort 'died' in Godric's Hollow, his soul became what is known as Vapormort. And he float around, but still consious. So my two cents is that when one's mangled soul is sucked in by a dementor, but the piece of soul will still be alive, because it has the horcruxes connecting it to life. So you'd be alive but inside a dementor. Freaky, huh?


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  #39  
Old August 12th, 2009, 11:15 pm
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

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Originally Posted by Unrepentant View Post
When Voldemort 'died' in Godric's Hollow, his soul became what is known as Vapormort. And he float around, but still consious. So my two cents is that when one's mangled soul is sucked in by a dementor, but the piece of soul will still be alive, because it has the horcruxes connecting it to life. So you'd be alive but inside a dementor. Freaky, huh?
Well I don't think you would be inside the Dementor, because Dementors only take your soul, not your body. What I think is that the piece of your soul that the Dementor takes disappears, while your body remains behind. Meanwhile, you're technically still alive because there's another piece of your soul residing in some Horcrux somewhere. I don't know, I'm confusing myself.

on the "Vapormort"

EDIT: Actually, after re-reading your comment like 3 times, it does kinda make more sense. This is a great topic, but very confusing nonetheless. I wonder if anyone's asked JK about it.


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  #40  
Old August 13th, 2009, 6:41 am
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Re: Dementors and Horcruxes

Somebody should ask, shouldn't they? Right now, this is merely speculation and theory.

But, I agree with LumosSempra. The soul ina horcrux could probably be somehow returned to the body.


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