Spinner's End #23 - Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil

[navygreen]

Discussion for Spinner's End #23 - Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil? by Lady Lupin.

[Emerald63]

Oh Cool! The first post!! So much to say, though, that I won't be first if I try to say it all now. So I'm gonna post this just to say "Another wonderful job" LL! I'll be back tomorrow (I hope!) to say more.

[Oceania]

Absolutely wonderful (as usual) Lady Lupin. I have been disappointed with the editorials going up lately, as there has been little speculation, and alot of summarizing and recaps. It was nice to see some new, fresh, debate-able theorizing!!!

I felt the same way you did when I found out the title. The word association in my brain was in overdrive, and I thought "eerie, spooky, holy, Halloween, night, veils, graves, sacred,ghosts, consecrated", etc. Like you, I do not believe it bodes ill for Harry, though it does have a ring of finality to it, doesn't it?

There has been a lot of theorizing here on the boards, and most of what you mentioned has been suggested at one point or other---but you put it all together in such a succint way; your editorials are stories in and of themselves.

I like the idea of the veil playing a part; I REALLY think it will. As you stated, Halloween is always described as "the night when the veil between the living and the dead thins". I think it very significant. Somehow, the veil will come into play, as well as the locked room.

Also, the Hallows being holy consecrated things or people---definitely. I think the Hallows may be anything from our dearly departed James, Sirius, Lily, and Dumbledore, to the horcruxes themselves, as a kind of reverse (AKA "Deathly" Hallows). Even the horcruxes, though UHnoly, could be considered hallows I think, because of what destroying them represents. It also fits with the Arthurian hallows myth. But I see it just as likely that the Hallows may be benevolent forces as you stated. I think we just MIGHT see those that have passed on, once again. And what an amazing experience that will be for Harry.

Great editorial. Juicy stuff.

[HP_hedgehog]

Finally!
Halloween has played an important part in all of the books, except for HBP. Yes, in OotP, there was something on Halloween (I think it was the release of Educational Degree #24), though it was not major. I like the idea of these two books, that have the most ties with alchemy, to not make Halloween important. Although, that could mean that the first Halloween in DH won't be important either. It would be wonderfull to have the series end on Halloween, though every climax has been during the summer, up until now. Ah well...

What is interesting is that you seem to think of the deathly hallows as persons (departed or not) in the last part of the editorial. What fascinates me is that they could still be objects or even places. I have absolutely no idea and frankly, I don't want to know. We already know a lot of the contents of book 7. I sort of regret having found out all the clues laid out in past books on the locket, because I will not enjoy that part of the book as much as I would. On the other hand, the speculation was great and book 7 will still leave me flabbergasted anyway. But... I think it's time now to hear that the book is finished, that it's approximately ... Chapters long, ... pages, maybe find out some chapter titles like last time... but I don't want to know much more on the content

And I liked reading an editorial that simply speculates and not presents clear answers for a change

[Shewoman]

Welcome back, Lady Lupin! I agree with your suggestions, especially that the "Deathly Hallows" don't necessarily have to be a threat to Harry & Co. I'm also tempted to think in terms of a graveyard. The burial places of heroes--chthonic deities--is quite important in Greco-Roman mythology and Dumbledore's tomb is at Hogwarts.

I don't think the word "Hallows" would refer to Horcruxes. They are made through murder and serve an evil purpose. Destroying them would be a good deed, whereas destroying something hallowed isn't.

[wandaXmaximof]

Lady Lupin, you never cease to amaze me. I always love you editorials, as they are so well thought out, reaserched and written. I don't think I've ever read one where I haven't agreed with some or all of the points.
And 'Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil' hasn't changed that. Actually, a lot of the points you made, I'd also concidered myself on this thread The Deathly Hallows - Theories Relating to People & Places.
I whole-heartedly agree that the Deathly Hallows could be the souls/spirits of the dearly departed (whether that's Lily, James, Sirius, Dumbledore or the Hogwarts founders or a mixture of them all).
I also like the connections you made to Halloween and the Veil (both the physical veil in the Department of Mysteries and the figurative on that seperates the living from the dead.)
I strongly believe that Harry will recieve help in some way from those who have died and that this is what the title Deathly Hallows refers to.
I also like the idea that the spirts could be the souls off all the innocents Voldemort has killed. I'd actually quite like to see an army of ghosts/spirts/souls standing strong behind Harry to help him defeat Voldemort.
The other points that you made that interested me in this editorial were the ones about the Veil in the Department of Mysteries. I think that the two-way mirror will come into play again and agree with what you said about Harry using it to communicate with the dead or being able to safly pass through the Veil himself.
The other point you made was about Harry being able to destroy the Horcruxes using the Veil, it's an idea I'd never concidered before and the possibility excites me a lot.
I loved how you also tied the Department of Mysteries with the locked room and Harry finiding something out about Lily. It only seems fitting that the mother who sacraficed her life for her son would have some connection to his greatest power.
Over all, this editorial has painted a wonderful picture of what Deathly Hallows could hold for us readers. An image where I see Harry revieving help and guidance on Halloween from those he's loved and those who have gone before him.
As always, you work has been a pleasure to read and it's got my mind working over-time.
Keep up the great work, I cannot wait to see what you have instore for us before ours and Harry's journey is finally over.
~Clare

[Grindelwaldspet]

Excellent editorial! I've been hoping to see some editorials written about the Deathly Hallows, since I find it very tedious to search through discussion forums to get all the theories.
I like your idea of the founders being associated with Deathly Hallows; and also agree with Shewoman, that they could be a place, a graveyard. I like to think that the Deathly Hallows is a graveyard where the four founders are buried (possibly unplottable and protected by enchantments, but that's going a bit far on just another crackpot theory). To contradict myself, at least partially, I also like the idea of the veil and Department of Mysteries coming back into play (as little as I want to see Harry have to have any dealings with the MOM to get there). I wonder what would happen if Harry threw a horcrux through the veil? Would the piece of soul be removed and the object remain intact? I only mention this because if the founders do come back, it might make Harry's job of destroying the horcruxes more difficult: they may not wish for their prized possessions to be destroyed.
Anyway, thankyou for your (as always) wonderful editorial!

[machiavelle]

You sound so very sad writing this editorial. I think you didn't want to write it because the finality of the series is starting to set in. I think we are all sort of who cares what the theories are since we will find out soon, almost too soon. Tears on the computer keys.

Anyway I originally thought Hallows was a place, a deathly place. Then I thought deathly hallows were objects, that Harry would be shown and have to decide whether or not to use, since their use would be irrevocable.

I really like the originality of throwing a horcrux through a veil! That's a keeper, LL!

Then I anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with The Lady Shows All, which I thought, of course she will! She, being our own JK, but also possibly being another lady of the series (Lily, Luna or Merope-we never really heard her side of the story.)

And lastly I do think the whole divinations thingy will come into play. Harry's destiny- yadayada . I can't wait and I hope the book is 5,000 pages long!

[Chas]

Lady Lupin, thank you for brightening my day with another ray of your well-considered speculation!

Clare, you got me thinking with your insightful comment:

Originally Posted by wandaXmaximof

I also like the idea that the spirits could be the souls of all the innocents Voldemort has killed. I'd actually quite like to see an army of ghosts/spirits/souls standing strong behind Harry to help him defeat Voldemort.

Jo has the habit of bringing back in a critical role something she tossed in at an earlier time--sometimes even "anvil-sized" hints that we could easily miss. Remember how the priori incantatem figures helped and defended Harry in GoF? Perhaps they are examples of deathly hallows and the decisive role they could play. Remember, too, how ghosts helped Harry in earlier books-- particularly Moaning Myrtle and Nick. And Harry's kindness at Nick's deathday party endeared him to the whole ghostly community.

Where will the deathly hallows come from and how will they act in DH? We don't know, but I'm willing to bet that Books 1-6 have something to tell us (somewhere).

Another thought... Voldemort's greatest fear is death. What wonderful irony if the dead prove to be valuable helpers in Harry's struggle against the Dark Lord!

[blessed_dragon]

Another great editorial and finally there is one up that offers real theories with real evidence backing it up. I'm never disappointed when I read a new Spinner's End.

[GryffinWildmage]

Lady Lupin, you've given us an excellent, thought-provoking editorial once again! I find your idea that the Hallows are people to be very intriguing, though I had the feeling it was a place. Still, if you're right, that would certainly prove interesting. No matter what the truth is, great job with your theories.

[mo1]

Thank you for this new editorial, LadyLupin.

There are so many interesting points in it that it’s hard to know what to comment on. I particularly like some ideas that I had never read about before: Lily possibly being an unspeakable, Halloween possibly being associated with divination, time-travel … Wow.

There’s one particular point I would like to react about, since nobody has yet.

Originally Posted by Editorial

Will the founders return to participate in the final showdown? If so, what would Slytherin's role be? Considering his feelings about bloodline, he might not take kindly to Harry's side of the argument. However, though Slytherin seems to have been bigoted about ancestry, and though he stowed a giant, lethal snake in the bowels of a school, he hasn't been portrayed as a particularly evil or dark wizard. He and Gryffindor had been the best of friends prior to his parting. How would he feel about his last living descendent, and his plans for immortality and world domination? Impossible to say, but I would love to see what sort of help or hindrance might come from Slytherin.

Actually I’m not so sure that Harry being a half-blood would be so much of a problem for Slytherin, for one reason: Voldemort is also a half-blood.
He is even more a half-blood than Harry since one of his parents was a muggle, and, in spite of his blood-purity motto he sort of chose to remain an half-blood when he decided to use Harry’s blood to regenerate himself and not for instance Barty Crouch Sr.’s. As a matter of fact, he seems to only use the ideas about blood-purity to his own advantage and to consider the real purebloods as cretins who are only worthy to be his servants. He is the one who sent his last pureblood relative to his death in Askaban (and by doing so put Slytherin’s bloodline to an end) and who kept Slytherin’s ring as a trophy and desecrated it by making it a horcrux. And his horcrux-living memory has even gone as far as to use Slytherin’s basilisk for his own purpose in CoS disregarding completely the one reason why Slytherin had left it there in the first place.
So I highly doubt he would be keen to help his half-blood so-said Heir. And in this regard, I think Harry would seem more worthy to him since his being an half-blood is not so surprising since the Potters were never pureblood obsessives (unlike the Gaunts) and he was not in Slytherin’s house and did not cheat on his ideas about the issue.

[winkee]

I always love your editorials, Lady Lupin.

I suspect that the Deathly Hallows is the proper name of the room in which the veil resides, in the Department of Mysteries. We know that we will be returning there for some of the action, probably significant action.

Not that exciting, but I think it's a possibility.

[lafemmenissa]

Brava, Lady Lupin! Brava! I too have been thinking that the Deathly Hallows are people in some state of existence and that they are a positive force that will aid Harry. Great minds...

And, Chas, your mentioning of the priori incantatem echos and their relation to the Deathly Hallows made a light bulb go on in my head: Harry's and Voldy's wands are likely to be made to battle again. I'm not saying a repeat of GoF, but I do think that it's probable.

One more note, I do apologize to anyone reading this post. I'm quite sleep deprived and not sure it makes much sense...

cheers,
la femme

[le_professeur]

Congratulations, Lady Lupin, on another wise, thoughtful and totally possible set of ideas. I have to say that from your first editorial, I have always been amazed at your depth of thought and your ability to bring together many ideas from the books to support your thinking.
This editorial grabbed me from your very first reference to deathly being eerie, mysterious and a significant choice of wording. I found myself agreeing with everything you proposed. Perhaps, it is the wording of this particular editorial that had me thinking, as someone else has posted, that you were sad--a feeling that all HP fans must have right now as we realize that the wonderful world Jo has created for us is about to come to an end.
I guess one of the things I like about your theorizing is your lack of ego. You don't seem to feel you have to be right but your ideas are far more plausible than many others out there. In fact, reading your thoughts often prompts me to go back and reread chapters with your perspective. You seem to propose that the mysterious, sacred past, Harry's as well as Hogwarts' will play a central role in the last book and will be central to Harry's quest for Horcruxes. I do think that's quite probable as is the role of the veil both in revealing something major at Halloween to help Harry as well as in his disposing of the Horcruxes. Suddenly, I don't care if the book comes out anytime soon although I can't wait to read it. Especially if you continue to share your theories with us. Please keep it up.

[hermionefan01]

I can't really say much here that hasn't been said already but I'd like to say, Lady Lupin, thank you for another excellent editorial. You put it all down thoughtfully, and insightfully. I agree with you (and it looks like everyone else ) that the Deathly Hallows aren't looking all that evil or ill boding. I've always thought of them as a place, like a cave or something, all mysterious. That's might be because Hallow sounds a LOT like Hollow. Or because I think of the department of mysteries veil room too. Whatever it is, I feel that they're a place of sanctuary, or somewhere spiritual.

Thanks again Lady Lupin

(btw HP_Hedgehog, it would be awesome if the last book went over the standard one year wouldn't it )

[socks2]

Originally Posted by machiavelle

Then I anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with The Lady Shows All, which I thought, of course she will! She, being our own JK, but also possibly being another lady of the series (Lily, Luna or Merope-we never really heard her side of the story.)

..very clever!!!!


On another note, it never seemed as if Salazar was necessarily a bad person--the only reason he felt that 'pure blood' wizards should be the ones taught was because he didn't trust muggle borns because muggles persecuted wizards that time. So I think Slytherin would be likely to help Harry rather than Voldy.

[FanofLupin]

Another excellent one by LadyLupin! So insightful!

I like all the ideas brought up, very interesting. I especially liked the connection to Halloween and how a lot of important things happen on that holiday. I think it would be very cool if the veil played some sort of role in the last book.

Shewoman- you bring up a good point as to why the 'hallows' are not the horcruxes. I like that, I was under the impression they were the horcruxes but now I'm inclined to agree with you.

[Jinx4beck]

Awesome theorizing!

I believe that you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head with the idea of returning
"hallows(saints)" - past victims of "V" who will help Harry . Thus the term "deathly". I agree with you that I do not instantly perceive the title as that which is deathly to Harry.

Excellent as always.

[DenverJim]

Dear LL,
You are a gem! It's always an event when a new SE essay is posted.

In puzzling over the meaning of "Deathly Hallows," it occurred to me to wonder whether JKR was referring to a PLACE or a TIME. I'm still not sure, but you made me consider yet another significant question -- "deathly" to whom? The most obvious answer is to Harry, yet what if she means to VOLDEMORT? Deathly, as in the time or place where he faces his greatest fear - death - at the hands of his prophesied enemy, supported by all those united by their love of Harry (the "power the Dark Lord knows not") and what is true and just.