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Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:28 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Of course we have seen Dumbledore's portrait...on the backs of many Chocolate Frog Trading Cards. Remember when Harry and Ron first meet and Harry discovers Chocolate Frogs? He said, "He's gone!", to which Ron replied, "Well you can't expect him to hang around all day!"
Yes...but that one cannot talk. Can it?


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  #42  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:31 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Of course we have seen Dumbledore's portrait...on the backs of many Chocolate Frog Trading Cards. Remember when Harry and Ron first meet and Harry discovers Chocolate Frogs? He said, "He's gone!", to which Ron replied, "Well you can't expect him to hang around all day!"
Yes perhaps that is why he did not want them to take away his chocolate frog card.


  #43  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri
Of course we have seen Dumbledore's portrait...on the backs of many Chocolate Frog Trading Cards. Remember when Harry and Ron first meet and Harry discovers Chocolate Frogs? He said, "He's gone!", to which Ron replied, "Well you can't expect him to hang around all day!"
Well, I don't think that actually qualifies as a portrait...it's more like a photograph. Harry's photographs don't talk...And neither do the photographs of his dead parents...so I don't think the chocolate frog cards will actually aid Harry any


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  #44  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:45 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

I conceed the point...But in the photos of everyone else, like Harry's parents or the Weasleys in Egypt after winning the Ministry gold, they never leave the photo. Dumbledore does...?


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  #45  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:46 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
I conceed the point...But in the photos of everyone else, like Harry's parents or the Weasleys in Egypt after winning the Ministry gold, they never leave the photo. Dumbledore does...?
I don't think that's true. I remember Harry refusing to come into the picture of him and Lockhart and who was it that wouldn't come out because of a blotch on her nose? Wasn't that Penelope?


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  #46  
Old January 9th, 2007, 11:54 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
But in the photos of everyone else, like Harry's parents or the Weasleys in Egypt after winning the Ministry gold, they never leave the photo. Dumbledore does...?
There is also the matter of some of the other cards--Merlin, Circe, Morgana...others, already dead long before Chocolate Frog cards would ever have been a concept (as a collector's item with a sweet, that sounds like a Muggle-borrowed idea, but just mho on that). Don't they also move like photos do? (I evidently need to reread SS/PS ! ) Doesn't seem like there was any chance of getting a photo of some of those witches/wizards.


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  #47  
Old January 10th, 2007, 12:10 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Well, I have no doubt that dumbledore has retained all of his memories, other wise he wouldn't be very useful as an adviser. As it was said, the portraits are there to advise the headmaster/headmistress. Harry probably won't spend his time sitting in front of the portrait all day talking to dd, any more than when dd was alive. In fact, if harry asks the portrait questions on any of the mentioned issues, why would dumbledore tell harry? He had always refused to explain his trust in snape, so likewise, the portrait will probably do the same. I hope it does show up atleast once, though, because it would be so cool to see dumbledore again!


  #48  
Old January 10th, 2007, 12:56 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

I don't think Harry will be continuing horcrux-lessons from Dumbledore, but I think in a moment of necessity Dumbledore will come to the rescue and offer his usual cryptic advice.

I do think there's a reason why he doesn't want people to be aware that he can talk - he's done no more than wink and snore. I think he's spending his time thinking and working backstage, and that he will come back with something huge. We can only wonder what that is.


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  #49  
Old January 10th, 2007, 2:24 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
There is also the matter of some of the other cards--Merlin, Circe, Morgana...others, already dead long before Chocolate Frog cards would ever have been a concept (as a collector's item with a sweet, that sounds like a Muggle-borrowed idea, but just mho on that). Don't they also move like photos do? (I evidently need to reread SS/PS ! ) Doesn't seem like there was any chance of getting a photo of some of those witches/wizards.
Very good point. How would they get a photograph of Merlin or any other old time wizard. Such evidence makes a point that there are a limited supply of portraits that can actually talk/interact with people where as there are unlimited supply of normal photos. You cant just get a photo Ron and expect it to talk to you. It is probably a powerful magical concept to be able to interact from a portrait. The only portraits that we know of that can speak and move frames are Phineas and the portrait that talks to the Muglle Prime Minister. But you would think that either family of DD or any of the various institutions that he had such a great effect on would have additional portraits of him.

Oh yeah, and so far, only portraits of dead people have been able to interact.


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  #50  
Old January 10th, 2007, 2:28 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Well, its not exactly DD, so it won't be just like him, but the portrait will give advis, just like all the other ones. (i think)


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  #51  
Old January 10th, 2007, 2:29 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by tuer_lisse View Post
The only portraits that we know of that can speak and move frames are Phineas and the portrait that talks to the Muglle Prime Minister.
Well, also Dilys and Everard. They had portraits in the Head's office and also in St. Mungo's and the Ministry, respectively. Albus just seems too important not to have a second portrait somewhere, especially when considering at least 3 Heads did. (I have no ideas for why frog-man had a portrait in the Ministry and the PM's office, but I do keep in mind that the PM one may have been placed there after previously being elsewhere.)


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  #52  
Old January 10th, 2007, 2:39 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer_lisse
Very good point. How would they get a photograph of Merlin or any other old time wizard. Such evidence makes a point that there are a limited supply of portraits that can actually talk/interact with people where as there are unlimited supply of normal photos. You cant just get a photo Ron and expect it to talk to you. It is probably a powerful magical concept to be able to interact from a portrait. The only portraits that we know of that can speak and move frames are Phineas and the portrait that talks to the Muglle Prime Minister. But you would think that either family of DD or any of the various institutions that he had such a great effect on would have additional portraits of him.

Oh yeah, and so far, only portraits of dead people have been able to interact.
I think that only painted portraits of people can actually interact with each other, and it's been my opinion that there are actually people who are Artists, that bewitch the portraits themselves.

But regular photos have never interacted with people, whether the subject is dead or alive.

BTW, there's never been any canon which supports that only a portrait of a dead person can interact with other people


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  #53  
Old January 10th, 2007, 4:46 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by EverLore View Post
I think that only painted portraits of people can actually interact with each other, and it's been my opinion that there are actually people who are Artists, that bewitch the portraits themselves.

But regular photos have never interacted with people, whether the subject is dead or alive.

BTW, there's never been any canon which supports that only a portrait of a dead person can interact with other people
I have to disagree with this. In OOTP when Moody shows Harry the picture of the Old order he askes them to shove over and they do. That is interaction. Now it may not mean that they can talk but they can most certianly interact. Furthermore. We know that all the portraits of previous headmaster can speak not jsut Phileus.


  #54  
Old January 10th, 2007, 5:10 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

dd was reinstated as head of the wizengamot, along with several other titles i'm too lazy to look up right now. surely all the heads of such an important organization would have portraits in the mom, as it seems comparable to, say, the us supreme court? i just can't believe that with all that he did, there's no other portrait recognizing him in an important place.


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  #55  
Old January 10th, 2007, 5:12 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

There is canon to support that only dead people can interact with others... the fact that we have only read about dead people in portraits interacting on an intelligent level and not anyone who is alive is canon... As well, there are no painted portraits of people who are alive so... and also, there cant be wizards who are "Artists" because what do they do? paint a portrait of someone and then it automatically appears when they die?


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  #56  
Old January 10th, 2007, 5:19 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by tuer_lisse View Post
there cant be wizards who are "Artists" because what do they do? paint a portrait of someone and then it automatically appears when they die?

i think jo said something in an interview about how there was a "secret" to the portraits and we had a clue about it in the fifth book . . . i don't think i'm making that up. because it's true that not all portraits talk, there has to be a magical way to do it, probably comparable to the different development of film to make magical photographs. so, i don't think it's too far-fetched to think that there are "artists" who specialize in "animate" portraits. there's got to be some way to do it . . .


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  #57  
Old January 10th, 2007, 2:31 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by witchsmart View Post
Yes but I wonder. The portrait only appear after he died, and all other portraits are of dead people. Can a portrait only be made after someone has died? If so, can they decide in their lifetime where their portraits will go. Is there some kind of spell?
In case of the portraits that we have seen, some imprint of the character (or soul) of the person on the painting is transfered. It must be hard to transfer a piece of soul from a living person to a painting... here we come rather close to horcruxes. Maybe portraits of living persons are just not magical.

I think with photographs, the people on it can move and in case as what happened with the Order of the Phoenix photo also listen to commands... However maybe in that case Moody just moved them aside with a non verbal spell and made it appear if they listen (looks more spectacular).

I don't think however that people on photo's are able to hop from photo to photo, it's more likely that they just move into something unvisible for the beholder, but not that they are really out of it. So a photo of Dumbledore like the Frog cards won't be of much use.


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  #58  
Old January 10th, 2007, 3:10 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

How about DD's pensieve? Think Harry can go back INTO DD's memories and get clues from there?? The portrait may speak and give Harry tips here and there...


  #59  
Old January 10th, 2007, 3:56 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by anura29_84 View Post
How about DD's pensieve? Think Harry can go back INTO DD's memories and get clues from there?? The portrait may speak and give Harry tips here and there...
It might be possible to use the pensieve again, that possibility is discussed at this thread: Can Harry still use Dumbledore's Pensieve?

It's said somewhere that the portraits can only use catch prases often used by the person. However we have seen portraits giving messages, that feels as a contridiction... maybe there are various levels of magical paintings. If there are, it's likely Dumbledore will have a version which could possibly give advice? [I know this is all based on speculation]


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  #60  
Old January 10th, 2007, 4:25 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

I think Harry will return to Hogwarts when Dumbledore's picture wakes up so that he can ask him for advice. JKR did say somewhere that the portrait acts more as the person would have acted during their life, but is not in fact a reanimation or a continuation of that person. I think Dumbledore would most certainly give Harry advice, in the way he did when he was alive, but my bigger hope is that Dumbledore will have left Harry a letter in his will, or memories in the Pensieve for him to be seen upon his death.


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